Why did Gardai destroy possible burial site of Irelands longest missing child?

tayto lover · 06-09-2016 06:15PM

Going Forward wrote: »

If the ineptitude as shown in the Mary Boyle case and the Fr Molloy case is anything to go by, we all have a problem.

But it will end up, as I stated earlier in the thread, with Gemma introducing one thing after another until in a few months time people won't remember Mary Boyle at all.
It will be more to do with Gemma than any missing person.

This thread is going nowhere now as Mary is no longer the focal point of it, Gemma is. We need to remember why the thread was started and forget about our own personal bug-bears.

mikeymouse · 06-09-2016 09:24PM

There's a right spat over on twitter, it appears Gemma is persona non grata with some of Mary's family.
click through some of the 'you may also likes'

oranbhoy67 · 07-09-2016 03:47AM

mikeymouse wrote: »

There's a right spat over on twitter, it appears Gemma is persona non grata with some of Mary's family.
click through some of the 'you may also likes'

yes , it was me that started it all

I basically said what Tayto Lover said above with a few more of my personal experiences threw in .

Cue a massive backlash from people who beforehand were very supportive.

was good to weed out those who support an agenda and those who support Justice for Mary tbh, wasn't so nice being called an egomaniac, Mad , told to F-Off, a traitor, bought out.. oh and a drunk ( I don't drink) .

Well I put the cat amongst the pigeons somewhat but I'm only saying what i have saw from my own experience in dealing with her and from speaking to the families of other victims , a lot of whom feel the same

I was also at the Q&A the night before in ballybofey , she introduced a right crew . including a mob from Bundoran who care not a jot about Mary - their main purpose in life is to take down McEniff . for one of them in particular it borders on obsessive

That and Friday afternoons court shenanigans has made our campaign look like a sideshow , I'm looking forward to the day she moves on and leaves us to get on with it. I believe the parents of Raonaid Murray are her next targets .

She hasn't spoken to my Cousin in weeks , Margo sometimes returns her texts sometimes doesn't .. yet all day today I was getting told I am ruining the campaign by faceless people on twitter ?

In saying all this I am by no means trying to demean her documentary, it does contain the core truth, and it was my family and the 2 ex gards who gave her all her Info, she decided to go against some of their wishes on how they wished to be portrayed but hey that's Gemma, the multi-award winning Journalist Film Maker

oranbhoy67 · 07-09-2016 03:51AM

mikeymouse wrote: »

There's a right spat over on twitter, it appears Gemma is persona non grata with some of Mary's family.
click through some of the 'you may also likes'

btw the link on that page, that is not my cousins page, she doesn't know how to work twitter at all , that is all Gemmas work, my cousin let her speak for her on it, and got a legal threat for the effort.

I advised my cousin she should get it closed but she said Gemma has gave her the password so its ok .. so that'll cover Gemma should she ever be took for libel for anything on it.

Im blocked from that page and have been from day 1, Gemma set it up in response to her falling out with me over nothing, hence the emphasis in the bio on "Offical Family Spokesperson"

oranbhoy67 · 07-09-2016 03:56AM

Macca07 wrote: »

Of course she does, to bring to light the corruption going on in this country. I don't have any problem with this. This country is short of some decent journalists.

If she helps find out what happened to a 6yo girl in Donegal back in 77, or the murderer of a 17yo girl in Dublin in 99, even better.

It certainly is and this is what has created the vacuum where the likes of Gemma can come in take total control of a case and leave the family in tatters and the case still unsolved

Fr Molloys Family worked with her for years and said that she is the single worse thing to happen to their case, she has important documents belonging to them which she refuses to hand over and a Twitter account which is very similar in name to their twitter campaign account which she also refuses to take down .

She is now Moving on the Raonaid Murray case and her Parents have already rang the gards on her last weekend.

oranbhoy67 · 07-09-2016 04:00AM

Going Forward wrote: »

If the ineptitude as shown in the Mary Boyle case and the Fr Molloy case is anything to go by, we all have a problem.

I was so tempted to stand up at the Q&A and ask

"Gemma is there any unsolved murder in Ireland which you dont believe the gardai covered up?" ....but I bit my lip

( for the record I believe there was probably cover-ups in both my cousins case and definitely in Fr MMolloy's case)

mikeymouse · 07-09-2016 08:43AM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

btw the link on that page, that is not my cousins page, she doesn't know how to work twitter at all , that is all Gemmas work, my cousin let her speak for her on it, and got a legal threat for the effort.

I advised my cousin she should get it closed but she said Gemma has gave her the password so its ok .. so that'll cover Gemma should she ever be took for libel for anything on it.

Im blocked from that page and have been from day 1, Gemma set it up in response to her falling out with me over nothing, hence the emphasis in the bio on "Offical Family Spokesperson"

I only put that link up as I didn't want to link directly to your named page.
All the relevant links were on that page.
As I said earlier this thread is in Conspiracy Theories and was started over 3 years ago about possible Garda cover-up , so it's hardly surprising that a fair amount of the debate is about that. The one in AH ended like all the threads on there and didn't last long.
A few on here took up the corruption bit every now and again and it dominated for a while, but at least it kept the thread alive and eventually it got back to the core point , thanks to you and a few others.

Going Forward · 07-09-2016 10:20AM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrtOjyYW8AEr4Ci.jpg:small

Who's in the photo here?

Going Forward · 07-09-2016 10:55AM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

I was so tempted to stand up at the Q&A and ask

"Gemma is there any unsolved murder in Ireland which you dont believe the gardai covered up?" ....but I bit my lip

( for the record I believe there was probably cover-ups in both my cousins case and definitely in Fr MMolloy's case)

Stick with your own case; making an allegation of Garda corruption is far different than an allegation of Garda ineptitude.

One infers a deliberate cover up occurred, the other infers that genuine mistakes were made.

Which one is it?

If you were to judge deliberately facilitating a cover up of any sort as being corrupt behaviour on the part of the Gardai you kind of rule out any possibility of the Gardai ever coming out and admitting that they made genuine mistakes in the investigation.

No matter how many serious crimes reviews take place.

This is the problem here and I think it is what Giacamo McGubbin here was saying.

Maybe too much was made of alleged phonecalls etc in the documentary, but that genie is now out of the bottle.

And whether any rumoured phonecall was successful or not is probably impossible to prove at this point.

And G O Doherty claims to have two separate recordings of both men saying a call was made.

So the focus should be on the quality of the original investigation.

A genuine review of the case can only conclude that the original investigation fell short.

Any other conclusion and you are really back to square one I'm afraid.

tayto lover · 07-09-2016 04:26PM

oranbhoy67 ,

You are doing far more for Mary Boyle than a thousand Gemmas will ever achieve.
Stick to your guns, demand answers, take help from people who offer it in the best interests of the case and stay focused. Also look after your own health.

We are all behind you in this and in the interest of justice for Mary.
Don't allow your campaign to get side-tracked.

Going Forward · 07-09-2016 04:54PM

tayto lover wrote: »

oranbhoy67 ,

You are doing far more for Mary Boyle than a thousand Gemmas will ever achieve.
Stick to your guns, demand answers, take help from people who offer it in the best interests of the case and stay focused. Also look after your own health.

We are all behind you in this and in the interest of justice for Mary.
Don't allow your campaign to get side-tracked.

Can you point me to the campaign you're talking about?

Where is it?

tayto lover · 07-09-2016 06:59PM

Going Forward wrote: »

Can you point me to the campaign you're talking about?

Where is it?

It's his own quest to find out the truth.

oranbhoy67 · 07-09-2016 11:44PM

Going Forward wrote: »

Can you point me to the campaign you're talking about?

Where is it?

I have my own Campaign with Margo and Anne that we are approaching more subtly, you wont hear too much of it due to the nature of it until (hopefully) its resolved.

I put a statement up tonight RE my comments on Gemma , I don't apologise for them but the timing of them was wrong & has just gave ammo to those who would like to shoot the whole campaign down, it was a real tactical error on my part but sometimes I just have to say it as I see it

oranbhoy67 · 07-09-2016 11:45PM

tayto lover wrote: »

oranbhoy67 ,

You are doing far more for Mary Boyle than a thousand Gemmas will ever achieve.
Stick to your guns, demand answers, take help from people who offer it in the best interests of the case and stay focused. Also look after your own health.

We are all behind you in this and in the interest of justice for Mary.
Don't allow your campaign to get side-tracked.

I really appreciate that, thank you

oranbhoy67 · 07-09-2016 11:51PM

Going Forward wrote: »

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrtOjyYW8AEr4Ci.jpg:small

Who's in the photo here?

that would be http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/sacked-traffic-warden-took-photos-of-bosses-tribunal-told-28823696.html

and the son in this article http://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/news/donegal-news/42225/Bundoran-Councillor-s-husband-and-son.html

on twitter @downdemall has quite a lot of interesting local info on them , they now seem to be travelling with GoD on her Q&A

I never saw any of them at our march in Ballyshannon a few KM down the road from them a few months ago

mikeymouse · 08-09-2016 12:02AM

larry-de lamb has put up the 'cracking crime' video eventually,
for what it's worth

Going Forward · 08-09-2016 12:27AM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

I have my own Campaign with Margo and Anne that we are approaching more subtly, you wont hear too much of it due to the nature of it until (hopefully) its resolved.

I put a statement up tonight RE my comments on Gemma , I don't apologise for them but the timing of them was wrong & has just gave ammo to those who would like to shoot the whole campaign down, it was a real tactical error on my part but sometimes I just have to say it as I see it

It is a mess alright. I haven't read the statement, not being on twitter!

I've just seen this:

https://twitter.com/marybjustice/status/773530104395890688

And then there's this:

https://twitter.com/cjohn0260

Is that connected to you??

One thing I'm going to say to you, and that is I think you should keep your personal/social tweets separate from Mary's case.

I had a look at your own photos before you made your twitter private and it doesnt fit well to have pictures of sport, a guy in a KKK outfit etc, it isn't "professional looking" for such a campaign. It is more needless distraction.

It's just my opinion, and as always I offer it in good faith:)

Maybe ye're already going about setting up a new more dedicated twitter account etc. to put the other stuff behind ye, if not I think you should.

Do a clear out.

Once everything is stripped back there are still questions that need answering, like why was nothing else done about the interviewee who Aidan Murray said he felt was on the verge of confessing "if he had had someone else in the room" with him, meaning not the superior who broke the momentum of the interview.

That (or a version of the incident) was even mentioned in the Cracking Crime program:

https://vimeo.com/181841084

BTW anyone looking for Cracking Crime on Vimeo won't find it easily because it's titled CrackingCrime (no gap between the words).

Good luck with whatever you're working on.

Going Forward · 08-09-2016 12:33AM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

that would be http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/sacked-traffic-warden-took-photos-of-bosses-tribunal-told-28823696.html

and the son in this article http://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/news/donegal-news/42225/Bundoran-Councillor-s-husband-and-son.html

on twitter @downdemall has quite a lot of interesting local info on them , they now seem to be travelling with GoD on her Q&A

I never saw any of them at our march in Ballyshannon a few KM down the road from them a few months ago

Thanks, yeah I don't really see what particular value they bring to it?

oranbhoy67 · 08-09-2016 01:54AM

Going Forward wrote: »

It is a mess alright. I haven't read the statement, not being on twitter!

I've just seen this:

https://twitter.com/marybjustice/status/773530104395890688

And then there's this:

https://twitter.com/cjohn0260

Is that connected to you??

One thing I'm going to say to you, and that is I think you should keep your personal/social tweets separate from Mary's case.

I had a look at your own photos before you made your twitter private and it doesnt fit well to have pictures of sport, a guy in a KKK outfit etc, it isn't "professional looking" for such a campaign. It is more needless distraction.

It's just my opinion, and as always I offer it in good faith:)

Maybe ye're already going about setting up a new more dedicated twitter account etc. to put the other stuff behind ye, if not I think you should.

Do a clear out.

Once everything is stripped back there are still questions that need answering, like why was nothing else done about the interviewee who Aidan Murray said he felt was on the verge of confessing "if he had had someone else in the room" with him, meaning not the superior who broke the momentum of the interview.

That (or a version of the incident) was even mentioned in the Cracking Crime program:

https://vimeo.com/181841084

BTW anyone looking for Cracking Crime on Vimeo won't find it easily because it's titled CrackingCrime (no gap between the words).

Good luck with whatever you're working on.

yes that first tweet you posted on there is Gemma using Anns account she made "for her" to have a dig at Me and My sister

yes you read that right that is Gemma impersonating my cousin to discredit the only family my cousin has who publicly and vocally support her

The other account has nothing to do with me

Its my personal twitter account, the photo of the KKK guy isn't a photo of support for them, believe me this whole thing has already taking over my whole life, as I said the stuff im doing to help find Mary I won't be tweeting so much about the case as it could jeopardise it if I did so in the meantime i will keep it for both .. if I was to change it in the near future I'd be accused of something or other no doubt.

Ill take down the KKK guy incase anyone else takes it the wrong way (its actually an orangeman in a KKK outfit , im Glasgow Irish what can I say

)

oranbhoy67 · 08-09-2016 01:57AM

https://vimeo.com/181837949

to me the scenario described in this video does not mesh with the one the mother has said down the years including in her original statements and in this article (as well as others)

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mary-boyle-a-stolen-child-26259379.html

oranbhoy67 · 08-09-2016 02:00AM

I think also my uncles complete and utter silence during this whole show speaks volumes

https://vimeo.com/181835155

oranbhoy67 · 08-09-2016 02:19AM

Going Forward wrote: »

It is a mess alright. I haven't read the statement, not being on twitter!

Yesterday I jumped in head first with a series of tweets on here attacking an element of the Justice for Mary Boyle Campaign that I am not part of , I did it at the time out of my genuine emotions at the time which had got the better off me, as they often do when it comes to this case, I had my reasons but it wasn't the time nor the place to air them, I believe that @gemmaod has the same goal as me, but I am taking a different and less public path , my tweets yesterday were often petty and to be fair I received a fair amount of flak back - some of which was also over the top, I don't ask for nor expect any apologies for them & I'm not apologising for what I said but I apologise for the timing of them , I do apologise to my cousin Anne & to Margo for letting them be brought into it they aren't on twitter to answer themselves so that was wrong . as I said I believe that me and my sister have the same goal as any right minded person. which is to First of all find Mary & Bring her killer to justice & also to expose any corruption that led to this whole disgusting scenario
No one has made me write this I am doing so after speaking to someone who's advice I deeply value , I won't have much to say on the Mary Boyle case in the near future as the work I am doing on it isn't as public as others, anyway thanks to those who PMd, those who replied with decency even if they didn't agree with me and to the person that made me take a step back and look at the bigger picture .
I will not reply to any further questions about my comments from last night and today, I will instead reply with this pinned tweet if necessary

onwards to #JusticeForMaryBoyle

Going Forward · 08-09-2016 07:55AM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

yes that first tweet you posted on there is Gemma using Anns account she made "for her" to have a dig at Me and My sister

yes you read that right that is Gemma impersonating my cousin to discredit the only family my cousin has who publicly and vocally support her

The other account has nothing to do with me

Its my personal twitter account, the photo of the KKK guy isn't a photo of support for them, believe me this whole thing has already taking over my whole life, as I said the stuff im doing to help find Mary I won't be tweeting so much about the case as it could jeopardise it if I did so in the meantime i will keep it for both .. if I was to change it in the near future I'd be accused of something or other no doubt.

Ill take down the KKK guy incase anyone else takes it the wrong way (its actually an orangeman in a KKK outfit , im Glasgow Irish what can I say )

Ok the "profile" of the campaign is changing.

If someone who's not familiar with the story wants to read up on it where should they go now?

Where is there a calm balanced account of the case and the concerns you have about it?

Or are you not going down the route of involving the public in a campaign/ may be no harm, look what's happened?

Going Forward · 08-09-2016 10:49AM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

She is now Moving on the Raonaid Murray case and her Parents have already rang the gards on her last weekend.

https://mobile.twitter.com/gemmaod1/status/773581684952469506?p=v

"In certain cases I am investigating, some family members have the strongest reasons for not wanting the truth out. That will not silence me."

Sorry for bringing this thread off topic OB but that's some statement for her to come out with.

oranbhoy67 · 08-09-2016 03:34PM

Going Forward wrote: »

https://mobile.twitter.com/gemmaod1/status/773581684952469506?p=v

"In certain cases I am investigating, some family members have the strongest reasons for not wanting the truth out. That will not silence me."

Sorry for bringing this thread off topic OB but that's some statement for her to come out with.

It is and is aimed at me and my sister and is a complete lie but as she has said herself she is a master of what to say when it comes to libel so she has worded it very carefully as she has other tweets in the past

Then when I come out and say what I think about her and actually name her instead of snide tweets I look like the big bully who has came out for no reason and criticized the "savior" of my cousins case .

Off course she could also be talking about the parents of Raonaid Murray who rang the gards on her last weekend and is the next case she intends to solve.

For balanced info on our campaign for Justice the "Justice For Mary Boyle" page on Facebook is the best place to go at the moment

coincidentally its a page Gemma asked the owner off to close down 24 hours after he started it and with 3K likes already

When he said no she asked for control of it instead which he also denied , I help out on it now and we have over 12k Likes on it

Laika123 · 08-09-2016 04:43PM

egotistical for want of a better word, she seems totally stuck up her own arse.

UsedToWait · 08-09-2016 06:08PM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

It is and is aimed at me and my sister and is a complete lie..

...

Off course she could also be talking about the parents of Raonaid Murray who rang the gards on her last weekend and is the next case she intends to solve.

I think it's most likely to refer to Mary's uncle and indeed her Mother, and hardly likely at all to be referring to you and your sister - why would the truth coming out be a problem for you oranbhoy?

I've admiration for how strongly you've been advocating for justice for your cousin, but to be honest, for some time have felt you have let it become all-consuming - I said as much when you went away for a few days, and it was underlined for me by how you blew up at G O'D..

While I have my reservations about her handling of things also, we must be honest- must people only vaguely knew about Mary's case before the documentary.

I have felt for a long time that the political and garda corruption and cover -up angles of the case should be secondary to finding what actually happened to the poor girl.. I have no doubt there are questions to be answered by both of the above, but there will only be a case to answer when it can be conclusively proven she is dead, and that she was killed by the person we all suspect did it.

By focusing on a grand conspiracy, I believe it has dissipated the heat that should have been focused on what happened on that day.
Once that question is answered, the discussion can widen as to why her killer has never been brought to justice.

I really hope you get the answers you're looking for oranbhoy, but suggest you pull back from criticising in public others who, at the end of the day, have helped bring Mary back into the public consciousness..

oranbhoy67 · 08-09-2016 07:25PM

UsedToWait wrote: »

I think it's most likely to refer to Mary's uncle and indeed her Mother, and hardly likely at all to be referring to you and your sister - why would the truth coming out be a problem for you oranbhoy?

I've admiration for how strongly you've been advocating for justice for your cousin, but to be honest, for some time have felt you have let it become all-consuming - I said as much when you went away for a few days, and it was underlined for me by how you blew up at G O'D..

While I have my reservations about her handling of things also, we must be honest- must people only vaguely knew about Mary's case before the documentary.

I have felt for a long time that the political and garda corruption and cover -up angles of the case should be secondary to finding what actually happened to the poor girl.. I have no doubt there are questions to be answered by both of the above, but there will only be a case to answer when it can be conclusively proven she is dead, and that she was killed by the person we all suspect did it.

By focusing on a grand conspiracy, I believe it has dissipated the heat that should have been focused on what happened on that day.
Once that question is answered, the discussion can widen as to why her killer has never been brought to justice.

I really hope you get the answers you're looking for oranbhoy, but suggest you pull back from criticising in public others who, at the end of the day, have helped bring Mary back into the public consciousness..

I appreciate what you are saying , the truth coming out for me wouldn't be a problem it would be a celebration , the same way that when she initially fell out with us she tweeted that "Certain members of Mary Boyles family who PROFESS to care about her, are getting very anxious of the forthcoming documentary but it will proceed"

is it a co-incidence she tweets the tweet yesterday on the same day she goes back into the account she made for my cousin and tweeted that she and she only was the official Family spokesperson for the family on social Media??

I know what your saying but believe me I know how she works

You are right it is all-consuming for me.. but I got some news today which whilst i don't want to get too built up for it, it has got me really excited about the next few weeks , anyone who has read my posts on here will know that im anything but vague about this case, but I will post about it when it comes to a resolution be it a successful one or another failure.

Going Forward · 08-09-2016 07:47PM

UsedToWait wrote: »

I think it's most likely to refer to Mary's uncle and indeed her Mother, and hardly likely at all to be referring to you and your sister - why would the truth coming out be a problem for you oranbhoy?

While I have my reservations about her handling of things also, we must be honest- must people only vaguely knew about Mary's case before the documentary.

By focusing on a grand conspiracy, I believe it has dissipated the heat that should have been focused on what happened on that day.
Once that question is answered, the discussion can widen as to why her killer has never been brought to justice.

I really hope you get the answers you're looking for oranbhoy, but suggest you pull back from criticising in public others who, at the end of the day, have helped bring Mary back into the public consciousness..

×100

Laika123 · 08-09-2016 08:05PM

Going Forward wrote: »

×100

Quite true but it doesn't mean she has to be, the be all and end all of the Mary Boyle case.

I think her ego is taking over and she may even falsely think it's all about her.

Actually this thread has more views than the documentary now

Why did Gardai destroy possible burial site of Irelands longest missing child?

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