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former total · 06-09-2016 10:04PM

awec wrote: »

Who are the 6 (or more) Irish players you feel are certain to tour?

Nothing about being negative either, that's just rubbish. Being realistic more like. We are not a terrible team full of terrible players but we don't have too many guys who are certain to be on the plane next year.

Stop being so condescending with your "pure fantasy" and "just rubbish" remarks and I'll engage with you.

awec · 06-09-2016 10:05PM

former total wrote: »

Stop being so condescending with your "pure fantasy" and "just rubbish" remarks and I'll engage with you.

Perhaps if you refrained from your sanctimonious and patronising "it's going to be a long season of negativity" stuff I wouldn't be so condescending in return.

former total · 06-09-2016 10:09PM

awec wrote: »

Perhaps if you refrained from your sanctimonious and patronising "it's going to be a long season of negativity" stuff I wouldn't be so condescending in return.

Check the sequence of posts there chief.

molloyjh · 06-09-2016 10:09PM

Well having a spat isn't going to make anything any better lads.

McGrath, Murray and Sexton will all travel if got. Henshaw, SOB, Heaslip and Stander are all in with a decent shout. I know what people think regarding Toner not suiting the style but I wouldn't be surprised to see him travel of only for mid-week games. Hendo is in with a shout as well. So 5-6 isn't unreasonable. But that's dependent on fitness and form obviously.

We don't have many outstanding individuals compared to other sides. When you have big leaders with huge experience like POC and BOD you have those guys almost always in there. We've few of those guys now.

awec · 06-09-2016 10:13PM

The breakdown of the original selection last time was

3 lh props
2 th prop
1 ambipropstrous thing
3 hookers
5 locks
5 flankers
2 no8
3 scrumhalfs
2 flyhalves
4 centres
4 wings
3 fullbacks

irishbucsfan · 06-09-2016 10:18PM

molloyjh wrote: »

Well having a spat isn't going to make anything any better lads.

McGrath, Murray and Sexton will all travel if got. Henshaw, SOB, Heaslip and Stander are all in with a decent shout. I know what people think regarding Toner not suiting the style but I wouldn't be surprised to see him travel of only for mid-week games. Hendo is in with a shout as well. So 5-6 isn't unreasonable. But that's dependent on fitness and form obviously.

We don't have many outstanding individuals compared to other sides. When you have big leaders with huge experience like POC and BOD you have those guys almost always in there. We've few of those guys now.

I think all those guys will travel and I think Henderson is almost a certainty if fit. He covers back row and he's the type of player that Gatland loves.

I also think Best could travel given the other options at hooker and his leadership.

I think Furlong could travel. Maybe we might even see Marty Moore travel if he has a good season (which will come as a shock if the IRFU leave him out in the cold). Let's not forget there's links between his new club and Gatland. There's not that many top class tightheads in Europe and both those guys do a lot of work around the field which we know Gatland likes. Healy could travel if he recovers form, more unlikely in my opinion. Denis Buckley might go as the "uncapped player," let's not forget that tradition.

I've no idea about the backs, I don't even know who will be playing where in the backs for us in the 6 Nations, Payne might put himself on the plane as a very flexible back with a local knowledge. Maybe Olding or Marshall end up having a great 6 Nations in midfield. Maybe Keith Earls or Simon Zebo have a great 6 Nations.

There's plenty of guys who could put their hands up between now and then.

awec · 06-09-2016 10:26PM

In the backs, I would say (if he keeps the same numbers)

SH: Webb, Murray, Davies/Youngs
FH: Biggar, Sexton
Centre: Davies, Roberts, Farrell, ?? (maybe Tuilagi if he's fit! :pac:)
Wing: North, Zebo?, ??, ??
Full back: Hogg, Halfpenny, Brown

Wing is a problem, can't think of too many players. Put Zebo in but he'll need to play wing for Ireland. I'm sure one of the English wingers will get called, wouldn't be shocked if he picked Amos or someone like that.

Edit: forgot about Earls!

bilston · 06-09-2016 10:27PM

The Six Nations will dictate who tours. If Ireland win the Six Nations (entirely possible) then we'll have 10+ players. If we finish 3rd or 4th we'll have half that number.

bilston · 06-09-2016 10:28PM

awec wrote: »

In the backs, I would say (if he keeps the same numbers)

SH: Webb, Murray, Davies/Youngs
FH: Biggar, Sexton
Centre: Davies, Roberts, Farrell, ?? (maybe Tuilagi if he's fit! :pac:)
Wing: North, Zebo?, ??, ??
Full back: Hogg, Halfpenny, Brown

Wing is a problem, can't think of too many players. Put Zebo in but he'll need to play wing for Ireland. I'm sure one of the English wingers will get called, wouldn't be shocked if he picked Amos or someone like that.

Edit: forgot about Earls!

You forgot about Rob Lyttle! Surely he is nailed on already!

irishbucsfan · 06-09-2016 10:30PM

I'd say Anthony Watson is very likely to be one of the wingers on tour

RichieRich89 · 06-09-2016 10:47PM

Tommy Seymour and Jack Nowell would be others in contention

bilston · 06-09-2016 10:55PM

Dreadful person (on the pitch) but a terrific player...Liam Williams must have a great chance of making the squad.

AbusesToilets · 06-09-2016 11:18PM

The less Irish players picked the better tbh. Lions tours always crock the teams that supply the majority of players.

Adbrowne · 06-09-2016 11:19PM

molloyjh wrote: »

Well having a spat isn't going to make anything any better lads.

McGrath, Murray and Sexton will all travel if got. Henshaw, SOB, Heaslip and Stander are all in with a decent shout. I know what people think regarding Toner not suiting the style but I wouldn't be surprised to see him travel of only for mid-week games. Hendo is in with a shout as well. So 5-6 isn't unreasonable. But that's dependent on fitness and form obviously.

We don't have many outstanding individuals compared to other sides. When you have big leaders with huge experience like POC and BOD you have those guys almost always in there. We've few of those guys now.

I dont think we will have many backrows travel. I reckon Warburton, Faletau, Lydiate, Tipuric, Vunipola, Haskell will all be close to the squad and maybe that lad Davies from the Team GB 7s squad as a bolter. Wouldnt be surprised if Itoje went as a flanker either.

ClanofLams · 06-09-2016 11:24PM

I will possibly get mocked for this but I'd have Niyi Adeolokun down as a (very) outside bolter. Can see him getting capped in November and maybe becoming first choice for 6N. Were that to happen, he's in the mix.

AbusesToilets · 06-09-2016 11:27PM

ClanofLams wrote: »

I will possibly get mocked for this but I'd have Niyi Adeolokun down as a (very) outside bolter. Can see him getting capped in November and maybe becoming first choice for 6N. Were that to happen, he's in the mix.

If he keeps up the level from last season, he should definitely be in the conversation as a starter for Ireland. Beyond that, who knows. Earls toured after all.

CatFromHue · 07-09-2016 12:05AM

Earls is great for a tour like this as he can cover a few positions, in 09 he started games at 15 and 13.

I believe Niyi is an out and out winger which makes it more tricky for him.

Swan Curry · 07-09-2016 12:49AM

bilston wrote: »

Dreadful person (on the pitch) but a terrific player...Liam Williams must have a great chance of making the squad.

In fairness to him he's cleaned up his act in recent times

twinytwo · 07-09-2016 06:52AM

I dont think sexton should go... too many warm up games and lets be honest he will be singled out.

Gatty will pick wales go down there get hammered off the pitch. Personally id prefer no Irish involvment with what will turn into a shambles.

07-09-2016 07:19AM

I know where Tom Court will be spending his holidays next summer!

former total · 07-09-2016 08:09AM

twinytwo wrote: »

I dont think sexton should go... too many warm up games and lets be honest he will be singled out.

Gatty will pick wales go down there get hammered off the pitch. Personally id prefer no Irish involvment with what will turn into a shambles.

The Lions will probably lose 3-0 and probably lose two or three tour games too. We should still give it a lash though. Even 2-1 would be a great achievement.

However, it would be a lot worse if they take a hammering but no Irish players were good enough even to make the cut.

I want as many Irish players as possible on the tour. I'll bet the players themselves do too.

irishbucsfan · 07-09-2016 08:16AM

former total wrote: »

The Lions will lose 3-0 and probably lose two or three tour games too.

However, it would be a lot worse if they take a hammering but no Irish players were good enough even to make the cut.

I want as many Irish players as possible on the tour.

I don't know, it might be a lot more bearable if we didn't have to hear about how Irish player X is 100x better than Welsh/English player Y but isn't being picked because Gatland is a meanie throughout the tour... A low Irish representation might be worth pulling that particular plaster early on!

It took a truly world class performance in the 2nd test before some people would even consider that maybe Sam Warburton might actually be remotely useful last time.

Buer · 07-09-2016 08:25AM

I can honestly say it's the first ever Lions tour where I'm not excited one iota. The last tour left me completely cold and that has nothing to do with the BOD saga at all. It was a a bloated mess which completely diluted the appeal of the Lions. They had an opportunity to do something impressive in terms of sweeping the tour but failed.

No shame in that but the fact that the first game they lost the winning run due to a joke selection against the Brumbies left a sour taste for me, sending out a back line of a completely undeserving and cobbled together players (Hogg at 10, Wade, Barritt, Twelvetrees and the retired Shane Williams who was passing through on media work).

With the prospect of a squad going out there to get stuffed a number of times at the end of the season, I struggle to see the big appeal as a supporter. I'll follow it because I love the game but it's the first time I'm not actively looking at the potential squad a year out.

I'd like Irish players to get selected as it's a great honour still to be considered best in class but I would only want guys out there who can genuinely get into the 23 and that's a small number right now. Given the squad numbers and silly call ups that happened last time, I don't put much honour in being a dirt tracker for the Lions any longer.

thomond2006 · 07-09-2016 09:30AM

Tbh I think the biggest issue was the quality of the test series. It just wasn't great to watch compared to 2009 where the first two tests were phenomenal.

swiwi_ · 07-09-2016 10:21AM

Buer wrote: »

I can honestly say it's the first ever Lions tour where I'm not excited one iota. The last tour left me completely cold and that has nothing to do with the BOD saga at all. It was a a bloated mess which completely diluted the appeal of the Lions. They had an opportunity to do something impressive in terms of sweeping the tour but failed.

No shame in that but the fact that the first game they lost the winning run due to a joke selection against the Brumbies left a sour taste for me, sending out a back line of a completely undeserving and cobbled together players (Hogg at 10, Wade, Barritt, Twelvetrees and the retired Shane Williams who was passing through on media work).

With the prospect of a squad going out there to get stuffed a number of times at the end of the season, I struggle to see the big appeal as a supporter. I'll follow it because I love the game but it's the first time I'm not actively looking at the potential squad a year out.

I'd like Irish players to get selected as it's a great honour still to be considered best in class but I would only want guys out there who can genuinely get into the 23 and that's a small number right now. Given the squad numbers and silly call ups that happened last time, I don't put much honour in being a dirt tracker for the Lions any longer.

Well at least NZ is taking it seriously and providing decent opposition. The romanic in me would prefer a selection of Mitre 10 cup sides, but by choosing to go with the Super Franchises, even the midweek sides will have proper competiton, in fact a more than decent chance of defeat even.

I find this "hope as few Irish get chosen as possible" attitude weird TBH.

Also: might be last chance to see some of these players below in Black before they come play in Europe, which of course may include Irish clubs

Players off contract in 2017:

Kieran Read, Sam Whitelock, Owen Franks, Cory Jane, Israel Dagg, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith, Charlie Faumuina, Sam Cane, Steven Luatua, Malakai Fekitoa, Hikawera Elliot, Nepo Laulala, Codie Taylor, James Broadhurst, Tawera Kerr Barlow, Nehe Milner-Skudder, Waisake Naholo, Brad Weber, Charlie Ngatai and Ryan Crotty

Faumuina has signed for Toulouse in a poorly-kept secret IIRC, but there are some tasty options there - I would think the likes of Jane, Dagg, Cruden, B. Smith, Luatua, Crotty would be up for a big European retirement package.

Clegg · 07-09-2016 10:29AM

Ben Smith please.

bilston · 07-09-2016 10:39AM

Any scrum halves there Swiwi?

bilston · 07-09-2016 10:40AM

I want as many Irish selected as possible, if that happens it means Irish rugby has had a good season.

LuckyGent88 · 07-09-2016 11:12AM

bilston wrote: »

Any scrum halves there Swiwi?

Kerr Barlow and brad weber are both SH. Both with the Chiefs.

Yeah_Right · 07-09-2016 11:20AM

bilston wrote: »

Any scrum halves there Swiwi?

TKB and Brad Weber.

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