Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

Just like to reiterate what has been said. A heart breaking defeat, it was a devastating feeling at the final whistle and even yesterday morning waking up it was one of those "oh god did that really happen moments" that are normally reserved for flashbacks from drunken rampages.

While I am the biggest critic of "moral victory" talk I really have to thank the players and management for their effort. They put their heart and soul into it. You can't ask anymore from them and they should all be standing tall today.

JesusRef wrote: »

I normally re-watch all the games after I get home, even the 2008 Ai final and the 2011 and 2016 MF...

I don't think I will ever be able to watch this one

Do......its worth a look. Great game, great effort.

I would agree with what many have said here that KK were marginally the better team on the night. It is a change for a Waterford team to almost snatch it against KK while being marginally the inferior team. This Waterford team has something that I haven't seen in many Waterford teams, its got a determination and willingness to work as well as a lot of hurling skill. It suggests to me that Waterford are now serious contenders over the next number of years.

https://secure.tickets.ie/Listing/EventInformation/31265/bord-gais-energy-gaa-hurling-all-ireland-under-21-semi-finals-antrim-v-waterford-4pm--dublin-v-galway-6pm-semple-stadium-20-August-2016

Tickets on sale for the under 21 semis. Only one stand open so far. €15/€10 for OAP/Students

I've never seen the kilkenny players/management/fans celebrate winning a AI semi final so much.

If we don't win the big one with this group of players than we are never going to win it

For 2017 it's crucial we survive in 1A and possibly aim for the semi finals. A nightmare draw for us in the Munster is Clare (they will have a point to prove against us) and Tipperary would also be a bad draw. Kevin Moran should be taken off the captain role so he can focus on other things. Noel Connors and Pauric as joint captains for 2017 ???. I imagine a few of the u21s might join the panel. Hopefully Derek and Co stay on

PTH2009 wrote: »

https://secure.tickets.ie/Listing/EventInformation/31265/bord-gais-energy-gaa-hurling-all-ireland-under-21-semi-finals-antrim-v-waterford-4pm--dublin-v-galway-6pm-semple-stadium-20-August-2016

Tickets on sale for the under 21 semis. Only one stand open so far. €15/€10 for OAP/Students

I've never seen the kilkenny players/management/fans celebrate winning a AI semi final so much.

If we don't win the big one with this group of players than we are never going to win it

For 2017 it's crucial we survive in 1A and possibly aim for the semi finals. A nightmare draw for us in the Munster is Clare (they will have a point to prove against us) and Tipperary would also be a bad draw. Kevin Moran should be taken off the captain role so he can focus on other things. Noel Connors and Pauric as joint captains for 2017 ???. I imagine a few of the u21s might join the panel. Hopefully Derek and Co stay on

point 1.they celebrated because they knew they were in a match ,Clare as long as Davy is in charge are ****ed,the longer he stays the more ****ed up it gets,Kevin Moran role as captain is played out in the dressing room,very seldom does it matter who is the captain,its not rugby and lastly i'm a big critic of Mc Grath's or was ,like i said before he is a wonderful Waterford man but not sure whether he should stay on, he has had three years and only the league to show for it poor return especially with the talent at his disposal,having said that if he does take up his two year extension well so be it ,if the last two games were anything to go by then i cannot wait for next year,it was a welcome sight watching hurlers,hurl,not sure on the selectors though would really love to go behind the scene and see exactly what they have to offer other than running out on the pitch and shouting ,now maybe Mc Grath bended in the way of public opinion and went for Stephen Bennett which i was happy about but their had to be a place in the team for Maurice ,one of our best forwards bar none ,its always going to be tough making decisions as to who starts and who sits it out ,either way he should have seen action earlier ,on the plus side ,Aussie,Jaime Barron,Philip Mahony ,Connors,the two Bennetts,The basis is there now for a team not only to challenge for an All Ireland but to win one (easier said than done)

Just watched the game back again and for fennelly's second goal, tdb rises to catch the sliotar and as he lands his hurl is held by mick fennelly stoping him getting away and allowing Walter Walsh to get away to set up the goal.

I have to say - of all the semi final defeats I have watched us suffer, Saturday's hurt more than any. To come out on the wrong side of the game after two crackers really hurt but the sense of pride I had travelling home was immense. The lads gave everything and just fell marginally short.
Over the two games, Kilkenny's small bit more experience and composure helped them get over the line but I have no doubt this team of ours will be competing consistently over the next few years and will get there.

Coming out of Limerick a few weeks back, soaked and miserable I was gutted as I did not see that hammering coming but I did believe the second half that day was a freak half where we just fell apart and that it would not happen again. The squad and management showed huge character and bravery to come back from that defeat to put out the two performances we saw in the last week.

I really hope Derek, Fintan and Dan all stay because this squad is special and they are the right guys to get them over the line.

Austin Gleeson is simply the most exciting young hurler I have ever seen and each and every time he gets on the ball I can feel my heart rate rise. The lad is a phenomenal talent and everyone I talk to about Waterford hurling from outside our great county just wants to talk about him.

Hopefully the u21's can life the All Ireland and I am already looking forward to next season!

blueflame wrote: »

Only now coming to terms with events - not sure if anyone else looked at it but to me Murphy looked to possibly have batted the long range effort from de Burca from behind the crossbar, the time Mick Fennelly got injured, but there was so much focus on the injury it was never questioned and the two umpires were not ideally positioned. Could be wrong but it was very close call and w remember how Socks was caught on this recently.

That being said, the game was what it was a ding dong battle with no quarter given and none taken. Hopefully this will give Derek and the team belief in themselves to go the next step. Looking back on the game Darragh Fives was a massive loss, Conor Gleeson played well but Fives superior physicality and experience would have been invaluable.

Many have spoken about Derek and that a league title is a small return for the talent at his disposal - I disagree. I have criticised Derek in the past especially in his first year and especially after the Munster Final and Wexford games this year, but he has won back my admiration in these two games. We tend to forget just how young and how inexperienced this side is. The loss of Darragh Fives and Pauric Mahony at different times over the last two years were curcial factors in the development of this team. I really hope that this team can drive on from here,

Next year i would like to see Conor Prunty added to the panel and Paudie Prendergast returned to the panel. This would provide much needed cover and added physicality at the back.

I would like to see us use the league as a spring board to try new things and give fringe players their opportunity to get experience and to impress. This would include giving Shane Roche a run in the full back slot - i believe Barry Coughlan can be targeted by the media and picks up yellow cards quite easily and we need to look at options there.

Would like to see if we could get DJ Foran back in the fold and build him up as i think he could be an exceptional target man and ball winner at half for full forward. Imagine if we could get him even close to the physical condition of Aussie?

Speaking of Aussie would like to find a stable position for him that will keep in the center of the game all the time or as much as possible, this guy is immense, but needs to be helped to keep his head out of the clouds and his feet on the ground. He has the potential to become a legend of the game.

Most of all i would like to see us sustain the level of hunger, work ethic and raw aggression shown in the last two games, allied to the belief that these last two games should now bring to this team. Last Saturday showed it was no fluke, there was no catching KK after a lay off and there was no chance of complacency. Saturday night was meeting KK at their most dangerous and fore warned and there was nothing between the two sides.

Time to stop dreaming and to start truly believing.

Time to be realistic too. There are alot of deadwood at the arse end of the panel that should have be cleared out ages ago but for some unknown reason (Ching Ching)they are still there. Paudie Prendergast left due to lack of game time and being fed up of making up the numbers in meaningless games in the middle of winter. Shane Roche has been doing the same thing for the past 3 years and is he going to move up the ladder? Not a hope under this regime because if he was he would have seen action all along. Gavin O Brien,Shane McNulty,Eddie Barrett,Shane O Sullivan kieran Bennett Andy Molunphy all making up numbers for training. Prunty and Lyons will be brought in from the u21 next year,further pushing the above names down the pecking order. How these fellas keep doing this must take some commitment because deep down they surely know they're been completely used.
From a personal perspective I sincerely hope the u21's win the all Ireland,they have re invigorated the proper hurling methods and have ultimately forced the hands of the senior set up into playing a more advanced system.

robopaddy2 wrote: »

A lot of renewed optimism after the 2 games against KK but as a glass half empty man you would still say weve ended up in the usual place. I agree with Cul Beg its time to gut out some of the panel again and bring the next wave of lads forward. I agree with Prunty and Foran being brought on from the u21s but also Colm Roche is a guy I see with a lot of potential. We have to keep evolving if we are to remain competitive at this level. As hurlerontheditch said its easier said than done to win an AI. Its one thing to say we have the players to do it but actually having the stuff to go out and earn one is a different story. Our very best wasn't enough to topple Kilkenny over 2 games lets be honest. So we have to step it up another level again

And ultimately that's the bottom line our very best wasn't good enough. As a forward on the team I would imagine your confidence would have to take a bit of a battering as in the cases of Curran, Shanahan,Dunford,Devine,Dillon to a lesser extent and the two Bennetts all either start and don't finish or are dropped and see little game time. It's like McGrath can't settle on a forward formation. I would like to see the stats but were there as many defenders replaced throughout games? Noel Connors possibly in the Munster final is all that springs to mind. The point im making is surely not all midfielders and defenders have had stormers throughout the year but yet are never replaced. Barry Coughlan should have been at the very least switched on Sat evening or substituted as he was cleaned out but yet the first switch was to take of a forward. Dunford got 35mins in the drawn game and was surplus to requirements on sat seeing no action at all. Conor Gleeson struggled on Walter Walsh in the replay and yet no move from the bench?
My biggest fear is until we solve our fullback position we are in trouble because as our system expands he's exposed and while our defensive system on the other hand covers him it ultimately will not bring us the big prize. Obviously management have no faith in Shane Roche as a replacement so then our options are limited. Maybe Prunty should be tried out there to see how he handles the position but otherwise it's a case of stick with what we have and when that was exposed in the Munster final and again last Sat it ultimately showed our short comings. Shane Bennett to wing back was an option the other night aswell as he clearly was struggling to make an impact as a forward. Difficult decisions to be made for whomever is in charge next year and that would go for backroom personnel also as surrounding yourself with"yes men" doesn't help the cause.

i thought Barry Coughlan did as well as anyone the other night, a full back can not do much against a man with the height , strength and power of Colin Fennelly if the ball is being posted in, in fact first goal ball in is magic from Walter, you'd have to question the inexperience of young Gleeson [Conor], the way he attacked a ball he clearly could not win, and walsh did what he is in the kilkenny team for bought himself time to make the right decision , saw de burca was out of Position [he was between two stool's all night, Micheal fennelly was a compleatly different quality of opponent that he would have faced all year], and put a dream ball right across the 40 to the far right of the 21 it was a peach, Now coughland slipped and that slip cost him, because everything about what happend next was down to quality , would he have got a tackle in if he did not slip, i'd reckon he would but live an learn, but the only way to prevent that goal is furthur out the field, Second goal ball was dropped in the middle of our defence , as has happen alot of times in the Munster final and since, right in the middle of the field and on the 40, Clever reading of the play by walter walsh, bad fielding and reading of the game by tadgh and Young Gleeson, and walter attacked the square and bang, nothing to be done inside , bar maybe one of the three lads stayed with colin, but you stop the attacker with the ball, what a pass though from the big man, but you have to at least stop the ball in your half back line, Looked at it again, Fennelly got more tangled up with De Burca rather than fouled him, two goals , and both could have been prevented, but hurling is like that.
Need Brick to stay , need Patrick Curran, and Stephen Bennett to Bulk up , and really Bulk up, Stephen at this stage is an outstanding underage Prospect, and his body conditioning is the same, I hope for his sake that he learns from Austin Gleeson , who is potentially the Greatest hurler to come onto the scene in my lifetime, who is now not fearing contact , safe in the knowledge that he has the work done, but Stephen will never fulfill his Potential untill he is severly cut, as you could see the other night, he could not turn quickly enough, was not "running strong", and whilst i would not have taken him off, he made the goal with a pinpoint pass, he was not really in the game, and this is the reason he has not started all year, Fair play to Derek though gave him a shot in the big one, was not let down at all, but i really hope he is in a position to attack the gym this Christmas, cos he is in the position that the only thing that will curtail him is himself[be it body or mind]. Patrick Curran, same he has the hands of a master, but now has to show the want, same as above Limitless potential, but no good, time is now, get strong, get more power, its going to make him better, i would hate in 3 years time to be talking about how good these guy's could be , Hurling is there and then some, up to them selves.
Shane Bennett is one serious enigma, he can be wonderfull, and have to take his age into account, U-21 again next year, and he can dissappear, Looks like when he is not in the game that he has the head down, but works hard, i am wondering what he will develop into, is he a wing back playing wing forward, but he is so off the cuff you might not be able to play him there, he might just be the pick of the three, he is a gifted stickworker, but i want to see a threat in him every time he's on the ball, have not see this alot of this, in the last month , has looked tired , and he is usually a ball of energy, needs to develop his weak side too, its not bad, but its not as good as it should be, and he again has a massive peak talent wise, but i get the impression, and i could be wrong, that he is a real free spirit , nothing wrong with it, and again as of the above he needs to work at getting bigger , and keeping his focus, if that is to become the best he can be.
Need D.J Foran now to **** or get off the pot, Decide he want's it , or is happy enough to hurl for Portlaw, no Physical conditioning done, you could see it a mile off, Goal against Kilkenny from wing forward in the Minor , very few would have done it, it was kilkenny Like, Intermediate game v Clare christ he was a man amongst boys, but bar one or two moments in both U-21'S , and they were fleeting, he could be finished by the end of this year, he'll still play Club and maybe thats his thing but it would be a waste.
Colin Dunford needs to bring something else to the table now, needs to score more , or needs to defend better, but needs to bring something to it, he is in danger now of becoming a filler on the panel, some one we'll see in th league and be reminded of how talented he is, and then only see him when we want to waste time bringing on subs, so he needs now to decide what he is, and attack it with a very strong mentality, does not have the exposure of an U-21 Championship to raise awarness of his talents, and won't be seen now till next year, so Tunnell vision if thats what he wants.
Need Colin Roche now to step up too, blessed with ability same as the above but looks lazy and also what is he, is he a back , forward , midfielder or sub, i think he is as gifted as any i mentioned, but not enough any more, i do like the look of O'Brien of Feyybank, Look's as if he might not be as technically gifted, but looks like there is a want in him to improve, sometimes that is more important,
So Who Else...... Conor Prunty [Has everything] is the desire there?, Darragh Lyons ? Where do you play him?, Young hahessy is a dinger of an underage corner back, Micheal Harney ???? is he willing??. Mickey Kearney ????, nice place to be we're not down in Waterford, but we might not peak unless we keep and uncover a new brick, because what he has you can't buy.

Clare and Limerick are going to come good from next year on and add Tipperary to the equation, cork a bit unknown but can shock anyone on there day. We have a very competitive Munster championship

Leinster is always between Kilkenny, Galway and Dublin with Wexford supposedly rebuilding and may take another year or 2.

Tipperary have a very good minor team dis year and will be a force in the coming years, hopefully along with ourselves. Kilkenny keep saying there future prospects are not as good but they always unearth new players (Blanchfield looks quite handy) and will never go away.Galway, Clare and Dublin will be there. One team which I think will make the breakthrough is Limerick (with Tj Ryan gone they will have a happy camp with a top manager on the back of underage and club success)

It's going to be a shame if in 2026 we look back and say 'we had a great team but still didn't make the breakthrough'.

PTH2009 wrote: »

Clare and Limerick are going to come good from next year on and add Tipperary to the equation, cork a bit unknown but can shock anyone on there day. We have a very competitive Munster championship

Leinster is always between Kilkenny, Galway and Dublin with Wexford supposedly rebuilding and may take another year or 2.

Tipperary have a very good minor team dis year and will be a force in the coming years, hopefully along with ourselves. Kilkenny keep saying there future prospects are not as good but they always unearth new players (Blanchfield looks quite handy) and will never go away.Galway, Clare and Dublin will be there. One team which I think will make the breakthrough is Limerick (with Tj Ryan gone they will have a happy camp with a top manager on the back of underage and club success)

It's going to be a shame if in 2026 we look back and say 'we had a great team but still didn't make the breakthrough'.

Says the man who thought Wexford would make the All Ireland final

cul beag wrote: »

Time to be realistic too. There are alot of deadwood at the arse end of the panel that should have be cleared out ages ago but for some unknown reason (Ching Ching)they are still there. Paudie Prendergast left due to lack of game time and being fed up of making up the numbers in meaningless games in the middle of winter. Shane Roche has been doing the same thing for the past 3 years and is he going to move up the ladder? Not a hope under this regime because if he was he would have seen action all along. Gavin O Brien,Shane McNulty,Eddie Barrett,Shane O Sullivan kieran Bennett Andy Molunphy all making up numbers for training. Prunty and Lyons will be brought in from the u21 next year,further pushing the above names down the pecking order. How these fellas keep doing this must take some commitment because deep down they surely know they're been completely used.
From a personal perspective I sincerely hope the u21's win the all Ireland,they have re invigorated the proper hurling methods and have ultimately forced the hands of the senior set up into playing a more advanced system.

I think that the term "deadwood" is unacceptable for any player who has been training since last year including Xmas & Stephens Day.
If lads don't want to stay on the panel due to lack of game time that's understandable. However as a KK example the likes of JJ Farrell, Shane Prendergast and others were in their late twenties before they made a championship debut. If lads want to stay involved they will, if they don't there's not much any Manager can do about it.
But some people don't want McGrath either way.

meathhurler48 wrote: »

Our minors beat that Tippteam and slipped up by 2 ( effectively 1 ) against Limerick so with all our other young hurlers why should we be worried about the next few years? But sure PTH you need to worry to keep you going.
Re 2026 when I came out of Croker in 1959 I didn't expect to be waiting this long for the next AI. So like the rest of us you will just have to wait for our next big day, but it won't stretch until 2026.
Imagine when we win it you won't have anything to worry about.

he will,what if they drop the cup in the river crossing the bridge

I expect quite a few panel changes for next season especially if the Under 21s go on and win expect a few to be called up to senior, i doubt we see O'Regan, O'Sullivan, O'Brian, Barrett to all be gone off the panel next year, Brick Walsh might call it a day as well but who knows, i expect to see Prunty, Lyons and DJ Foran and Heneley to all be on the panel next year. I do think we need to use our panel better, needs to be competition for places and it's not like we have no depth to the squad a lot of the lads on the fringes next year are very good hurlers, hopefully he uses the league to blood them and maybe give the likes of McNulty, Molumphy ect more game time.