Should motorbikes be banned?

TallGlass · 09-08-2016 01:35PM

If you think motorcyclists in IRL/UK are bad, you sir need to get yourself over to the Canary Islands. Now as a car driver/motorcyclist, both full licences, I wouldn't rent either on that island for risk of not coming back alive.

You do see odd god****e behaviour on motorcycles but not near as much as I see car drivers do. Only difference is car drivers usually walk away from most accidents.

Winterlong · 09-08-2016 01:36PM

Skye Hallowed Wingspan wrote: »

One thing you won't see a m'biker doing is chatting away on the phone with one hand in control of the vehicle, which is commonplace in cars.
.

In fairness thuogh, some helmets have Bluetooth phone connectivity. I tried it once, very distracting!

ScumLord · 09-08-2016 01:37PM

the_yes_man wrote: »

do you know how fast formula one cars crash at? hint...its over 100km/hr
how many drivers have died while driving a formula one car in the last 20 years, another hint, less than 10 Id say, how many f1 drivers have crashed at speeds over 100 km/hr in the same
period? alot more than 10, what does that tell you?

Should have used a lot more shoulds and could haves, fair enough. But often impacts in F1 are after the car has been through more than one speed reduction traps. Go back 50 years in F1 before all those safety measures were brought in and you see that the majority of accidents ended in fatality. Drive an F1 car on a public road and an accident would probably lead to a fatality, professional race tracks have a lot of thought put into them so that accidents can happen without sudden deceleration. IE: Crashing into a tree or unprotected wall.

BreadnBuddha · 09-08-2016 01:40PM

rjpf1980 wrote: »

Blah blah blah outrage outrage outrage.

Waffle waffle angry angry

Thoughts?

Never going to happen.

If you're a car driver and you have the notion that bikers are as you describe, you should have your license revoked. Taking the line you take on bikers suggests you have no respect for another sizeable group of road users, therefore you have NO place taking to the roads you share with them.

hairyslug · 09-08-2016 01:42PM

we should ban pedestrians for all their walking and stuff, especially the ones that run on the road.

Yeah, bad pedestrians and BAN THEM NOW

the_yes_man · 09-08-2016 01:52PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Should have used a lot more shoulds and could haves, fair enough. But often impacts in F1 are after the car has been through more than one speed reduction traps. Go back 50 years in F1 before all those safety measures were brought in and you see that the majority of accidents ended in fatality. Drive an F1 car on a public road and an accident would probably lead to a fatality, professional race tracks have a lot of thought put into them so that accidents can happen without sudden deceleration. IE: Crashing into a tree or unprotected wall.

there are many tracks in the last 20 years that drivers should be dead from then as a result of crashes, canada , albert park, monaco, I take your points but you would need to really need to know a lot about f1 and more importantly the cornering speeds of those tracks and their proximity to the walls to realise they are impacting at more than 100km/hr at times despite the speed reduction measures in place at the time
so your almost point blank refusal to accept that 'if its over 100 km/hr IMPACT then you are dead' cant be right. therfore there is more going on and its not an exact a science as you think it is.

B0jangles · 09-08-2016 01:53PM

Motorbikes are fine, motorbikes fitted with big loud exhaust pipes are not.

Feck off with your fartrockets, no-one over the age of ten thinks you're cool. :mad:

the_yes_man · 09-08-2016 01:58PM

B0jangles wrote: »

Motorbikes are fine, motorbikes fitted with big loud exhaust pipes are not.

Feck off with your fartrockets, no-one with a mental age over ten thinks you're cool. :mad:

fyp

ScumLord · 09-08-2016 02:51PM

the_yes_man wrote: »

there are many tracks in the last 20 years that drivers should be dead from then as a result of crashes, canada , albert park, monaco, I take your points but you would need to really need to know a lot about f1 and more importantly the cornering speeds of those tracks and their proximity to the walls to realise they are impacting at more than 100km/hr at times despite the speed reduction measures in place at the time
so your almost point blank refusal to accept that 'if its over 100 km/hr IMPACT then you are dead' cant be right. therfore there is more going on and its not an exact a science as you think it is.

I already backed down from that point because obviously going over 100kph isn't a guarantee of a fatality but sudden deceleration over 100kph is very likely to lead to serious brain injuries. The brain just rattles around inside the skull so it doesn't matter what kind of safety devices that car has like airbags because it can't prevent the brain rattling around inside the skull.

Tracks like Monaco have less run off but the layout of the track and types of barriers all help reduce the fallout from any accident. Monaco is also a slow track. Canada has the wall of champions but it's not that bad because if you hit it you won't come to a sudden stop, the car slides along the wall, the deceleration forces aren't that high, but look at the end of long straights, they have run off areas, It's ok to hit a wall in F1 as long as it doesn't bring you to a sudden stop. IE head on collision. Even if the car can protect your body from a sudden stop it can do nothing to protect your brain from rattling around in your skull.

PistolsAtDawn · 09-08-2016 02:58PM

rjpf1980 wrote: »

There are numerous ads on TV asking us to be careful about motorcyclists.

I've had enough of this nonsense.

Motorcyclists are the most reckless and dangerous road users. In cities and towns and on motorways and rural roads they speed and weave through traffic and are a hazard to themselves other drivers and pedestrians.

Disproportionately motorcyclists die or are victims of accidents.

The reason is obvious. The motorcycle if it were invented today would not be allowed on the road. There is no protection for a driver whatsoever even at low speeds or legal speeds. A helmet or padded jacket or jumpsuit is rather flimsy when it comes in contact to the road or a collision with another vehicle. I have relatives who work with the emergency services and the stories they have told me would horrify. Motorcyclists literally get dismembered in high speed accidents.

Cars and other vehicles with the introduction of crumple zones protective structures within the car body and frontal and side air bags and of course seat belts have made crashes much more survivable.

There is literally no way to make lethal motorcycles safer.

Ban them and ban them now.

If people want to commit suicide that's fine. But motorcyclists endanger themselves and society.

Thoughts?

Get a bike, take it for a spin, trust me your opinions on banning them will be drastically changed.

dre_jspeed · 09-08-2016 03:39PM

lol, ah the internet at its finest in this thread.

No, they aren't endangering themselves or socity. But with you logic shouldn't your ban also include cyclist?

I think the bigger issue when it comes to road safety is people on their mobile phones whilst driving. The amount of driver I see using their phones on my commute into the city centre is crazy.

sonofenoch · 09-08-2016 03:46PM

Nothing worse than a car driver who thinks he's on a bike, weaving in and out on motorways undertaking on slip roads overtaking in housing estates .......ban imaginary bikes I say

diomed · 09-08-2016 03:52PM

Cars and trucks do the killing.

Anesthetize · 09-08-2016 03:55PM

rjpf1980 wrote: »

There are numerous ads on TV asking us to be careful about motorcyclists.

I've had enough of this nonsense.

Motorcyclists are the most reckless and dangerous road users. In cities and towns and on motorways and rural roads they speed and weave through traffic and are a hazard to themselves other drivers and pedestrians.

Disproportionately motorcyclists die or are victims of accidents.

The reason is obvious. The motorcycle if it were invented today would not be allowed on the road. There is no protection for a driver whatsoever even at low speeds or legal speeds. A helmet or padded jacket or jumpsuit is rather flimsy when it comes in contact to the road or a collision with another vehicle. I have relatives who work with the emergency services and the stories they have told me would horrify. Motorcyclists literally get dismembered in high speed accidents.

Cars and other vehicles with the introduction of crumple zones protective structures within the car body and frontal and side air bags and of course seat belts have made crashes much more survivable.

There is literally no way to make lethal motorcycles safer.

Ban them and ban them now.

If people want to commit suicide that's fine. But motorcyclists endanger themselves and society.

Thoughts?

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk238/fastlikeme/Reaction/gifface21-2.gif

Ragnar Lothbrok · 09-08-2016 03:56PM

Do any motorcyclists EVER obey speed limits?

I know car drivers break limits too, but not by as much as motorcyclists. The roads will never be totally safe for any of us, but given the choice, I'd much rather be involved in an accident while driving a car than a motorbike. There are plenty of terrible car drivers around, so really the motorcyclist should always drive with even more care and attention than the average car driver, instead of weaving in and out of traffic and breaking speed limits by ridiculous amounts.

toptom · 09-08-2016 03:59PM

Ban the noisy things, Its the taxpayer who has to pay when things go wrong for motorcyclists.

shane1981 · 09-08-2016 03:59PM

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

Do any motorcyclists EVER obey speed limits?

I never had to overtake a motorbike, put it that way.....

kona · 09-08-2016 04:01PM

rjpf1980 wrote: »

There are numerous ads on TV asking us to be careful about motorcyclists.

I've had enough of this nonsense.

Motorcyclists are the most reckless and dangerous road users. In cities and towns and on motorways and rural roads they speed and weave through traffic and are a hazard to themselves other drivers and pedestrians.

Disproportionately motorcyclists die or are victims of accidents.

The reason is obvious. The motorcycle if it were invented today would not be allowed on the road. There is no protection for a driver whatsoever even at low speeds or legal speeds. A helmet or padded jacket or jumpsuit is rather flimsy when it comes in contact to the road or a collision with another vehicle. I have relatives who work with the emergency services and the stories they have told me would horrify. Motorcyclists literally get dismembered in high speed accidents.

Cars and other vehicles with the introduction of crumple zones protective structures within the car body and frontal and side air bags and of course seat belts have made crashes much more survivable.

There is literally no way to make lethal motorcycles safer.

Ban them and ban them now.

If people want to commit suicide that's fine. But motorcyclists endanger themselves and society.

Thoughts?

Bollox.

Perhaps we should ban something your into? Like maybe a ban on posting ****e online.

Lumen · 09-08-2016 04:07PM

We mostly don't ban behaviours which mostly harm only the person doing them.

A notable exception is the requirement for car drivers to wear seatbelts, but only because they're no real inconvenience.

We don't make car drivers wear helmets despite head injuries being very common in car accidents, so there are already reasonable trade-offs between safety and convenience.

Motorcycles take up less road space and so ease congestion relative to single occupant cars.

I disagree that motorcycles are safer than pedal cycles. Apart from the higher speed, having 200kg of pokey metal coming down on your legs and feet will result in serious injuries, whereas falling off a bicycle mostly just results in a light scuffing or a simple collar bone fracture.

4068ac1elhodqr · 09-08-2016 04:09PM

rjpf1980 wrote: »

There are numerous ads on TV asking us to be careful about motorcyclists. drink driving and texting at the wheel.

Cars and other vehicles with the introduction of crumple zones protective structures within the car body and frontal and side air bags and of course seat belts have made crashes much more survivable.

Why not help by starting a campaign/funding for air bags on bikers, this chap in the video is seeking funding for this sort concept.

Would suit cyclists even more so whom have next to no chance against any vehicle doing any sort of decent speed.

RasTa · 09-08-2016 04:22PM

Anybody who owns a car should be made ride around on a bike for 6 months before getting their car license. 6 months on a bicycle before getting their motorbike one beforehand.

bladespin · 09-08-2016 04:27PM

Boo hoo, baby doesn't want to share the road? Next will be buses and lorries then other cars.

ScumLord · 09-08-2016 04:27PM

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

Do any motorcyclists EVER obey speed limits?

Probably not, it's not exactly that easy to do the speed limit on a modern bike. The fact is modern road bikes have more in common with their track counterparts than your average car would, they could be plodding along in second gear and still be doing well over 120kph. Outside of choppers and touring bikes, most bikes are made for insane speeds. The problem is many bikes are built with that insane speed in mind and some don't really work properly until their doing those insane speeds. They can suffer from poor braking performance and tyre grip until everything has been heated up.

I'd much rather be involved in an accident while driving a car than a motorbike. There are plenty of terrible car drivers around, so really the motorcyclist should always drive with even more care and attention than the average car driver, instead of weaving in and out of traffic and breaking speed limits by ridiculous amounts.

To be fair to most bikers they do have much better awareness than your average car driver. Most of them learn that the hard way too, I don't know any serious biker that's managed to avoid being in a serious collision at least once in their lives..

Bikes are inherently dangerous, there's very little that can be done about that other than more training.

bladespin · 09-08-2016 04:28PM

RasTa wrote: »

Anybody who owns a car should be made ride around on a bike for 6 months before getting their car license. 6 months on a bicycle before getting their motorbike one beforehand.

This, the amount of arrogant idiots on the road is amazing. Nothing teaches caution like a good dose of vulnerability.

lawlolawl · 09-08-2016 04:30PM

Back when I used to ride a motorbike I had some idiot farmer t-bone me in a jeep as I was riding past a junction in town. Did about 3500 damage to the bike because he had bullbars on his vehicle. A miracle that I wasn't hurt.

He claimed he didn't see me. As in, he pulled out onto a road directly into the side of a vehicle right in front of him. Then he tried to claim on my insurance for damage to a crappy set of after market spotlights that fell off when he hit me. Both insurance companies involved sided with me and found him fully liable so I got my expenses covered and he got nothing.

He rang me after it was all done for a chat which started out apologetic and friendly but by the end basically had him asking me to pay out of my own pocket for his lights.

You have to presume you are both invisible and a "second class citizen" when riding on Irish roads. There's so few motorbikes out there that people just aren't used to how to act around them.

Ragnar Lothbrok · 09-08-2016 04:43PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Probably not, it's not exactly that easy to do the speed limit on a modern bike. The fact is modern road bikes have more in common with their track counterparts than your average car would, they could be plodding along in second gear and still be doing well over 120kph. Outside of choppers and touring bikes, most bikes are made for insane speeds. The problem is many bikes are built with that insane speed in mind and some don't really work properly until their doing those insane speeds. They can suffer from poor braking performance and tyre grip until everything has been heated up.

Interesting.

So why are bikes made this way when they are obviously unsuitable for most roads/bike riders? Whatever happened to the smaller motorbikes I remember a lot of my friends getting in the 70s/80s? They might not necessarily have been safer I suppose, but they could at least be driven without the need to do ridiculous speeds.

bladespin · 09-08-2016 04:48PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Probably not, it's not exactly that easy to do the speed limit on a modern bike. The fact is modern road bikes have more in common with their track counterparts than your average car would, they could be plodding along in second gear and still be doing well over 120kph. Outside of choppers and touring bikes, most bikes are made for insane speeds. The problem is many bikes are built with that insane speed in mind and some don't really work properly until their doing those insane speeds. They can suffer from poor braking performance and tyre grip until everything has been heated up.

I have to disagree with that, you'll see as many tourers and cruisers (not to mention off roaders) as you will sportsbikes, all of which can be and often are ridden responsibly.
Honestly I think superbikes have had their day on the road.

ScumLord · 09-08-2016 04:49PM

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

Interesting.

So why are bikes made this way when they are obviously unsuitable for most roads/bike riders? Whatever happened to the smaller motorbikes I remember a lot of my friends getting in the 70s/80s? They might not necessarily have been safer I suppose, but they could at least be driven without the need to do ridiculous speeds.

Well it's partly down to the fact bikers want better bikes.

Modern engines have come on in leaps and bounds and it's kind of hard to make an engine that won't push something so light to insane speeds these days. When the manufacturers make something better it allows people to be more aggressive, new brakes can slow a bike down incredibly quick which means later braking. If you tried to ride an older bike after riding a new one you'd say the older bike was less safe even though it can't go as fast. The brakes wouldn't be anywhere near as good, the ride wouldn't be as good, it wouldn't be as easy to move the bike around, it would be heavier, more top heavy.

Slow does not mean safe. It really doesn't, I think this is one message the government should stop promoting.

The Pheasant2 · 09-08-2016 04:58PM

Can't stand this "everything I personally have an issue with, should be banned" attitude I'm seeing a lot of lately.

**** off and other adults make informed decisions at their own risk.

Winterlong · 09-08-2016 04:59PM

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

Can't stand this "everything I personally have an issue with, should be banned" attitude I'm seeing a lot of lately.

**** off and other adults make informed decisions at their own risk.

If some people ran the country we would be the Supernanny state.

Should motorbikes be banned?

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