Should motorbikes be banned?

Kat1170

ScumLord wrote: »

Probably not, it's not exactly that easy to do the speed limit on a modern bike. The fact is modern road bikes have more in common with their track counterparts than your average car would, they could be plodding along in second gear and still be doing well over 120kph. Outside of choppers and touring bikes, most bikes are made for insane speeds. The problem is many bikes are built with that insane speed in mind and some don't really work properly until their doing those insane speeds.They can suffer from poor braking performance and tyre grip until everything has been heated up.

To be fair to most bikers they do have much better awareness than your average car driver. Most of them learn that the hard way too, I don't know any serious biker that's managed to avoid being in a serious collision at least once in their lives..

Bikes are inherently dangerous, there's very little that can be done about that other than more training.

If car drivers had to undertake even half the compulsory training that motorcyclists do the roads would be much safer for everyone :rolleyes:

McDave

efanton wrote: »

are you even aware of the rules of the road? it appears not. I think you need to get you highway code book out again for a serious refresher course.

It is perfectly legal for motorcyclists to filter between traffic.
In most European countries motorcyclist are entitle to use bus lanes and cycle lanes, unfortunately not in Ireland.

Did it occur to you that if motorcyclist were unable to pass stationary traffic but instead take up position behind stationary cars, that you journey to work would be significantly longer.

Motorbikes take up more far less road space, are far more economical and environmentally friendly, and this has been recognised by cities such as London, where they actually encourage motorcyclists and penalise cars with only a single driver occupying them.
Since they implemented these new rules and applying your logic you would expect that the number of motorcyclists being killed in London would have increased since there is now a far higher proportion of them, but the reality is motorcyclist deaths have dramatically decreased. Unfortunately the cause of death for these motorcyclist has not changed with close to 50% being caused by car drivers when the motorcyclist was riding within the law and rules of the road.

I said overtaking stationary traffic. Including into oncoming traffic.

And in cycle lanes, the illegality of which you don't seem to accept. Maybe *you* need to read the rules of the road again.

Pac1Man

rjpf1980 wrote: »

Disproportionally they still die. Eliminate motorcycles from the road and a significant minority of road deaths are non existent.

But it is their choice and the risks are widely known. Why would you be desperate to lower road deaths? I'm not being smart, serious question.

X6.430macman

Motorcyclists just slow down end of story

nullzero

I have driven both, haven't driven a bike in years and you couldn't pay me to get back on one. Had a couple of knocks on the bike and one accident I was fortunate to walk away from thanks to a careless driver.
I always make sure to be mindful of cyclists and bikers on the road as I appreciate their vulnerability, however the carelessness I witness from both boggles my mind. Lots of car drivers aren't mindful of bikers and cause accidents and injure bikers but there is an awful lot of careless bikers on the road as well.
Your personal safety is ultimately your own responsibility, something which seems to be lost on so many bikers and cyclists.

uck51js9zml2yt

Saw maniac motorcyclists and car drivers in Portugal last week.
Going over the 25th April bridge in lisbon. 3 lanes of cars each way and motor bikes weaving through them.

Cue... Me overtaking in the outside lane doing 120 kmh and motorists zooming down behind me and not even slowing down with me in front of them.
Only solution was to move back in and not overtake or risk testing my crumple zone.

rjpf1980

Pac1Man wrote: »

But it is their choice and the risks are widely known. Why would you be desperate to lower road deaths? I'm not being smart, serious question.

Unbelievable!

faceman

rjpf1980 wrote: »

I'll say it again.

If motorcycles had not existed for the past century or so and someone invented them today they would not be allowed on the road.

There is zero protection for a cyclist from a collision with another vehicle or contact with the road in the event of a crash except for a crash helmet which cannot stop a head from exploding like a melon, pads on a jacket and trousers or jumpsuit that can be rubbed away in seconds before skin flesh and bone are torn away. The bodies of motorcyclists literally disintegrate at high speeds during crashes. At lower legal speeds death and injury is much higher because there is no physical protection to the rider. He/she is thrown from the bike or crushed under the wheels or flayed alive by the road surface.

I haven't seen one poster refute my argument rationally.

Your argument is null and void. Motorcycles are one of the vehicle types on our roads and will continue to do so. If you're argument was valid, scooters and gopeds would be banned from the roads.

If you're adamant about their dangers and risk than perhaps you should focus your energy on what can be done to improve the accident rate in Ireland as opposed to making redundant arguments.

Also not all incidents involving motorcycles involve travelling at high speeds. Neither of my incidents (where in both cases the car driver was deemed to be at fault) involved high speed. I wear full biker protection and on both occasions the protection did its job, even though one of the incidents resulted in the bike being written off.

The only time I've sustained an injury from being on a two wheel vehicle was an elbow fracture. I fell off a bicycle when I was 17.

I'm riding motorbikes 15 years

There was a time when collisions involving cars at high speed would result in serious injuries or fatalities just as deadly as the risk posed to motorcyclists today.

bladespin

Also seems to be a high chance of getting killed if you're driving a car in Donegal, should cars be banned there too?

househero

X6.430macman wrote: »

Motorcyclists just slow down end of story

Do cyclists die, due to riding too fast?

efanton

McDave wrote: »

I said overtaking stationary traffic. Including into oncoming traffic.

And in cycle lanes, the illegality of which you don't seem to accept. Maybe *you* need to read the rules of the road again.

Filtering is LEGAL. Filtering by definition means passing between or besides STATIONARY or slow moving traffic if there is space to do so that does not put any road user at risk.

You are also quick to jump to unfounded assumption. I personally do not use bicycle or bus lanes, although I have seen this done. My personal opinion however would be that it would make far more sense to allow motorcyclists to use them as this means they filter in a far safer environment.

The Rape of Lucretia

Kat1170 wrote: »

If car drivers had to undertake even half the compulsory training that motorcyclists do the roads would be much safer for everyone :rolleyes:

If motorcyclists had to undertake even half as much as their compulsory training seems to teach them to do, the roads would be much safer for everyone.

TheQuietFella

Suspend licences for dangerous driving of any vehicle for a minimum

of six months. Surely a data base exists where drivers who have been

banned can be prevented from hiring a car and if they are found driving

a car which many have been after a ban, confiscate the car!

Slanty

I have to agree OP. I drive the m1 most days which is two lanes. Bikers weaving up through the middle of the lanes doing 120 is asking for trouble and then when accidents happen it's the car drivers fault.

I wouldn't ban bikes but this weaving in and out of the middle lanes is the problem. Just stay in the lane and overtake correctly

bladespin

Slanty wrote:

I wouldn't ban bikes but this weaving in and out of the middle lanes is the problem. Just stay in the lane and overtake correctly

Yet that's rarely the cause of a fatal accident.

bladespin

Think you'll find bikes are little if a threat to other road users.
It's very rare for a motorcyclist to injure or kill another road user.

Pac1Man

Pac1Man wrote: »

But it is their choice and the risks are widely known. Why would you be desperate to lower road deaths? I'm not being smart, serious question.

rjpf1980 wrote: »

Unbelievable!

I was expecting that reaction.

My point is there are a lot of activities where people die however it is their choice to partake in these activities. I don't know why your target for this crusade is bikers.

prinzeugen

efanton wrote: »

Filtering is LEGAL. Filtering by definition means passing between or besides STATIONARY or slow moving traffic if there is space to do so that does not put any road user at risk.

You are also quick to jump to unfounded assumption. I personally do not use bicycle or bus lanes, although I have seen this done. My personal opinion however would be that it would make far more sense to allow motorcyclists to use them as this means they filter in a far safer environment.

The Garda traffic in Dublin have no problem with motorbikes using bus lanes or even College Green when we should not.

As long as you don't act the prick! Its safer than filtering.

Bike lanes are a no no however for tons of reasons.

The "Rules of the road" that people keep going on about are not law... More recommendations.....

The Road Traffic Act is the law.

McGixxer

bladespin wrote: »

It's very rare for a motorcyclist to injure or kill another road user.

But they do seem to cause seething envy amongst certain types of car drivers.

bladespin

Funny how many posts are about filtering yet the main causes of serious accidents with bikes are loosing control in a corner (often within the speed limits) and interacting with other vecicles at junctions (pull outs as per RSA ad).

prinzeugen

bladespin wrote: »

Funny how many posts are about filtering yet the main causes of serious accidents with bikes are loosing control in a corner (often within the speed limits) and interacting with other vecicles at junctions (pull outs as per RSA ad).

Yes.. I know of two people that were killed when they hit melted tar going round a bend on very warm days.

On 4 wheels its not an issue but on 2 wheels its like hitting black ice.

bladespin

Lost a friend last year when a car driver was blinded by the low sun and crossed a solid white line striaght into him, very experienced rider and racer on a charity run, guess it was his fault for being there.

sonofenoch

bladespin wrote: »

Think you'll find bikes are little if a threat to other road users.
It's very rare for a motorcyclist to injure or kill another road user.

I do know of a rider who hit and killed a pedestrian a few years ago, was subsequently cleared of all blame ......I do remember him riding the same bike around afterwards which I thought odd, while I don't know if I'd have given up biking I think I'd have given up that bike

bladespin

sonofenoch wrote:

I do know of a rider who hit and killed a pedestrian a few years ago, was subsequently cleared of all blame ......I do remember him riding the same bike around afterwards which I thought odd, while I don't know if I'd have given up biking I think I'd have given up that bike

Rare but not impossible, have seen something similar on O'Connell st years ago, bike went through a red (along with several cars) unfortunately a girl stepped out and got hit, bad observation is not purely a car drivers domain.

Ianasauras

Its very simple. As a car driver all you need to do is:
1. Use your indicators
2. Maintain Road position
3. Check your mirrors when changing lanes.
4. Avoid distractions like phones, earphones shouting into the back seat etc.

You have a responsibility to make sure that you don't cause an incident. Car drivers cause far more incidents with motorcyclists than the other way around (at least in my 10 years biking experience).

As for motorcyclists. Yes, in many cases we probably should slow down and be less aggresive in passing. But most motorcyclists are safe drivers. Years of dealing with ignorant, aggresive and incompetent car drivers makes it difficult to not treat all car drivers the same and as though they're trying to kill you.

But if car drivers could follow the 4 points above, you dont need to worry. We can all get along on the road. Even the cyclists

prinzeugen

bladespin wrote: »

Lost a friend last year when a car driver was blinded by the low sun and crossed a solid white line striaght into him, very experienced rider and racer on a charity run, guess it was his fault for being there.

There is a poster on boards that keeps posting "motorists kill 200+ every year"..

They just look at stats and don't have a clue about how each road death happens.

The same poster gave out about some old lad that had a heart attack and mounted the pavement.

Some people have pathological hatred for other road users which is worrying!

McGixxer

prinzeugen wrote: »

There is a poster on boards that keeps posting "motorists kill 200+ every year"..

They just look at stats and don't have a clue about how each road death happens.

The same poster gave out about some old lad that had a heart attack and mounted the pavement.

Some people have pathological hatred for other road users which is worrying!

Some people have a pathological hatred for anyone who isn't them. The same people usually begrudge others having anything nice. They see a nice shiny bike and start frothing at the mouth, because they don't have one and wouldn't have the balls to ride one, so they feign faux outrage at things like filtering, ostensibly showing concern for the rider's safety, but we know the truth

Biker.ie

It's a fanciful myth that cages are safer in the event of an accident, sure - at 25-30mph urban speeds while zooming around a built up car park you're less likely to suffer more than a bruised wallet from minor shunts, but even apart from recreational motorcycle spins - the risk/reward benefits for daily commuting on a motorcycle or scooter more than make up for the odd prang when some dozy ol hormonal housewife desperately fighting obesity in the mirror, pulls out in front of you.

At regular road speeds, such as [this recent car crash] reported in the Irish Independent a week ago when 4 people lost their lives - things are very different, but the real world doesn't appeal much to slavish commuters entranced by mindless drivel on the radio while perusing the comfort and surroundings of their steel cocoon for hours on ends and making frowney anxious faces at riders on steel horses rolling up to the lights ahead of them.

Speaking from experience, and being quite good at somersaulting, I'd much rather take my chances on a motorcycle with a head-on collision into that passat?scoda?unrecognisable saloon car with all it's latest 'crumple' zones and safety features, than become trapped / onfire / dead / inside it, the real world can be unpalatable to some and the stuff of nightmares to others, particularly if there were a boardsie dweeb on the blower to liveline at that particular juncture and you couldn't reach the nob, as the Captain in Cool Hand Luke would said ; "Some nobs, you just can't reach" - so maybe people with low IQ's and high post counts on boards.ie (there's obviously a direct correlation between the two) should be banned from our roads in a safety campaign as a matter of urgency rather than biker's, if it only helps to save one life / rib / femur / cat from dieing on our roads, then it'll have been worth it conscripting them and their androids with unhappy smileys to a life of public transport.

sligojoek

If everybody drove properly and didn't act the bo££ox we wouldn't be having this conversation. But thats never going to happen.

I rode bikes daily from the age of 16yrs and 2 days until I was 45. From what I've seen, every genre of driver has a tiny proportion of assholes and the rest of them are grand.

I had 2 years of tuition from my father on a bike and in cars before I was 16 and it has stood to me to this day. A little bit of education goes a long way.

K.Flyer

rjpf1980 wrote: »

...The size of these vehicles and their speed mean drivers of large vehicles cannot see them in time when there are head on collisions in moving traffic

I think what you meant to say was "..don't look out for them"

rjpf1980 wrote: »

...drivers of cars and other vehicles pull out into the path of a motorcycle which results in the bike plowing into the side with the driver going under the wheels or being launched into the air for sometimes hundreds of yards..

What do expect?
These would be the same type of car drivers who would pull out in front of other cars, vans, trucks and trams?
These type of drivers are incompetent and unfortunately are the cause misery to other road users, especially bike riders.
"Sorry mate, I didn't see you"
Translates into "I didn't bother taking the time to have a good look up and down the road"