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Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

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  • #1892
    Powerhouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭Powerhouse


    Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

    This sums up Kilkenny perfectly. While they are no doubt a physical team, the priority is always to play hurling first.


    Just curious: can you identify what inter county teams have a priority to be physical first and play hurling later? It seems like Kilkenny are being presented as some kind of outlier.


  • #1893
    Powerhouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭Powerhouse


    Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

    You may have missed the point of mcevoys question. He's discussing whether the lad will react stupidly and get himself sent off. Your response would seem to support that suspicion.

    .

    Ah we know you have the party line to bear in mind and present Kilkenny as you would wish them to be presented but we are not stupid enough to not realise that McEvoy thinks it very likely that Gleeson could be targeted with a late and nasty challenge. You make it sound like Gleeson is in some kind of vacuum by informing us of the "point" of McEvoy's question. The point is that it's a tacit admission that Kilkenny are as well practised in the dark arts as anyone else.


  • #1894
    Michael Kavanagh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 114 ✭✭Michael Kavanagh


    blackcard wrote: »
    I think you will see a few players from that team on the senior team in the future, John Walsh, Jason Cleere and Richie Leahy for example
    Bill Ryan could be added to that.


  • #1895
    citykat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭citykat


    Powerhouse wrote: »
    Ah we know you have the party line to bear in mind and present Kilkenny as you would wish them to be presented but we are not stupid enough to not realise that McEvoy thinks it very likely that Gleeson could be targeted with a late and nasty challenge. You make it sound like Gleeson is in some kind of vacuum by informing us of the "point" of McEvoy's question. The point is that it's a tacit admission that Kilkenny are as well practised in the dark arts as anyone else.
    You should really read the article again or more likely for the first time. You're taking one line completely out of context. The question is posed for Gleesons reaction to such a hit rather than any tactical intention. When was the last time Kilkenny 'targetted' any individual for special attention? Kilkenny under Cody are a tough team but they're not dirty. They don't have to be. Their record speaks for itself. Other teams including Waterford have tried to bring the dirt into it and look where that gets them. You're only poking the bear ffs.
    If i were you i wouldn't have any concerns about Gleesons wellbeing today. I'd be hoping he at least is still in the game for the last 10-15 mins. After a bright start last year he was down 3 times before getting called ashore with about 15 mins to go. That's when Waterford are going to need him.


  • #1896
    Powerhouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭Powerhouse


    citykat wrote: »

    The question is posed for Gleesons reaction to such a hit rather than any tactical intention.

    If i were you i wouldn't have any concerns about Gleesons wellbeing today.

    I think the reason the question is posed is clear enough okay. The fact that it's posed at all makes that clear.

    And I couldn't care less about Gleeson's well being today. I simply pointed out an apparently unnecessary reference in an article to a physical hit on a named player which was in line with a topic of conversation here. Let people make of it what they will. But it is interesting to point out its existence.


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  • #1897
    citykat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭citykat


    Powerhouse wrote: »
    I think the reason the question is posed is clear enough okay. The fact that it's posed at all makes that clear.

    And I couldn't care less about Gleeson's well being today. I simply pointed out an apparently unnecessary reference in an article to a physical hit on a named player which was in line with a topic of conversation here. Let people make of it what they will. But it is interesting to point out its existence.

    The mind boggles. Let me assure you. The journalist concerned has not and never will have any input into the tactics of the Kilkenny senior hurling team on match day.


  • #1898
    Powerhouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭Powerhouse


    citykat wrote: »
    The mind boggles. Let me assure you. The journalist concerned has not and never will have any input into the tactics of the Kilkenny senior hurling team on match day.

    I don't need to be assured of anything. I simply pointed out something in print which chimed with a debate already taking place here which was interesting as some were painting the guy here who spoke of such matters as some kind of Maverick. Clearly the thought has crossed more than one mind. I don't need to be assured of anything.I'm just the messenger.


  • #1899
    tbiggertycome
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭tbiggertycome


    Michael Kavanagh wrote: »
    Bill Ryan could be added to that.

    Yeah the intermediates and a very easy win after a slow start and were 1-02 to no score down before scoring 3 goals in six mins and blew Clare away. This Clare team was not amazing it's pretty much the same team the Waterford U21s wiped except the intermediate team were obviously without their 3 lads who played senior this year.

    It was a poor enough game especially in the first half bar the excitement of the goals. The second half got a bit better although the radio commentators were in the opposite stand to the crowd, it was similar to being at a good Club league match in Nowlan Park and there was plenty of atmosphere around where I was. This is how I'd rate the Kilkenny players.
    1. Aaron Duggan 7 did well enough had very little to do in the way of saves and he's puckouts were good.
    2. Evan Cody 7 was the free man a lot of the time, a role he obviously wasn't too used to but he did well enough. He was sent off for two yellows neither of which looked like fouls let alone yellows but the Carlow ref threw out a lot of silly yellows to both sides
    3. Tom Awkward 7 had very little to do but did it well when called on
    4. Like Hickey 7 again had very little to do but did it well
    5. Jason Cleere 9 was immense and a definite for the seniors not that we didn't know that already.
    6. Conor Delaney 8 lots came at him and by and large he dealt with it all not much got by him.
    7. Geoff Brennan 6 he looked nervous and fumbled catches but his distribution was good.
    8. Jack Langton 7 was Ok did a huge amount of work but the middle was often busy scored 0-1
    9. Like Scanlon 8 was absolutely excellent when he had the ball scored a peach of a goal just didn't get on the ball enough for me. A definite senior prospect Scored 1-2
    10. Alan Murphy 8 played very well and put himself around. Scored 0-2 from frees
    11. Conor Tobin 7 worked tirelessly but was often swamped and not much worked for him going forward. He was subbed half way through the second half
    12. Richie Leahy 6 worked hard again was swamped whenever he got the ball and was probably highlighted after his winning subs appearance in the Leinster final. Not great yesterday but definitely a senior star in the making
    13.Billy Ryan 10 was outstanding and ran and fought for everything has a great touch and speed, a new fast Billy from GBC Senior prospect all the way scored 1-4
    14 Nicky Cleere 8 played really well did lots of work and was often back in midfield and occasionally in defence. Scored 1-4, 4 from frees
    15 John Walsh 10 some he's touches and control under pressure were outrageous. Huge appetite for work. He's first goal was a thing of beauty which lots of others may have given up on. A high ball boomed in, the keeper called it. It was dropping on the left hand corner of the large rectangle, Walshes marker went back for the line. As the keeper raised his hand to catch ,the in rushing Walsh swung his hurl above the keepers hand and slapped it in a flash into the far corner. He had a wayward shot or two in the first half but the skill too get the ball before those shots was just great. He straightened the radar and slotted his two points in the second half and finished the game with his 2 goal. For which he broke onto a high ball in behind the full back when they were the only players inside 30 yards. Walsh easily won the race with his pace and batted the ball into the ground in front of the keeper to avoid the hook. Has work to do to get stronger but I could easily see a FF line of Ger Aylward, John Walsh and Billy Ryan scoring ridiculous amounts of goals in the next few years
    Scored 2-2
    Subs
    21 Sean Morrissey too little to rate but did very well, worked really hard and scored a lovely point at his ease.
    Jack McGrath and Shane Donnelly not really on long enough or didn't get into it a huge amount in their time on the field.

    From that game and what I know I would say the following are Senior definites
    Jason Cleere
    Richie Leahy
    Billy Ryan
    John Walsh
    Most of these need to get stronger but they have the talent hopefully they have the temperament too.

    Probably make it
    Like Scanlon
    Conor Delaney
    Alan Murphy
    Sean Morrissey
    These lads will definitely get an opportunity and hopefully they take it. Scanlon has all the skill but would get murdered in a intercounty senior game at the minute, he has Cha's frame if he can bulk up a bit he'd be savage.

    Could make it
    Evan Cody
    Tom Aylward
    Cody is not as confident as he has been, if he is then he's a definite senior prospect but needs to sort his head out a bit for me. Only my second time seeing Tom but I like what I see but I would need to see more to be convinced.


  • #1900
    dobbs2210
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 508 ✭✭✭dobbs2210


    tbiggertycome wrote: »
    Yeah the intermediates and a very easy win after a slow start and we're 1-02 to no score down before scoring 3 goals in six mins and blew Clare away. This Clare team was not amazing it's pretty much the same team the Waterford U21s wiped except the intermediate team were obviously without their 3 lads who played senior this year.

    It was a poor enough game especially in the first half bar the excitement of the goals the second half got a bit better although the radio commentators were in the opposite stand to the crowd it was similar to being at a good Club league match in Nowlan Park and there was plenty of atmosphere around where I was. this is how I'd rate the Kilkenny players.
    1. Aaron Duggan 7 did well enough had very little to do in the way of saves and he's puckouts were good.
    2. Evan Cody 7 was the free man a lot of the time a role he obviously wasn't too used to but he did well enough was sent off for two yellows neither of which looked like fouls let alone yellows but the Carlos ref threw out a lot of silly yellows to both sides
    3. Tom Awkward 7 had very little to do but did it well when called on
    4. Like Hickey 7 again had very little to do but did it well
    5. Jason Cleere 9 was immense and a definite for the seniors not that we didn't know that already.
    6. Conor Delaney 8 lots came at him and by and large he dealt with it all not much got by him.
    7. Geoff Brennan 6 he looked nervous and fumbled catches but his distribution was OK.
    8. Jack Langton 7 was OK did a huge amount of work but the middle was often busy scored 0-1
    9. Like Scanlon 8 was absolutely excellent when he had the ball scored a peach of a goal just didn't get on the ball enough for me. A definite senior prospect Scored 1-2
    10. Alan Murphy 8 played very well and put himself around. Scored 0-2 from frees
    11. Conor Tobin 7 worked tirelessly but was often swamped and not much worked for him going forward. He was subbed half way through the second half
    12. Richie Leahy 6 worked hard again was swamped whenever he got the ball and was probably highlighted after his winning sub appearance in the Leinster final. Not great but definitely a senior star in the making
    13.Billy Ryan 10 was outstanding and ran and fought for everything has a great touch and speed a new fast Billy from GBC Senior prospect all the way scored 1-4
    14 Nickey Cleere 8 played really well did lots of work and was often back in midfield and occasionally in defence. Scored 1-4, 4 from frees
    15 John Walsh 10 some he's touches and control under pressure were outrageous. Huge appetite for work. He's first goal was a thing of beauty and lots of others may have given up. A high ball boomed in the keeper called it. It was dropping on the left hand corner of the large rectangle Walshes marker went back for the line. As the keeper raised his hand to catch the in rushing Walsh swung his hurl above his hand and slapped it in a flash into the far corner. He had a wayward shot or two in the first half but the skill to get the ball before the shot was just great he straightened the radar and slotted his two points in the second half and finished the game with his 2 goal which he broke onto a high ball in behind the full back then they were the only players inside 30 yards Walsh easily won the race with his pace and batted the ball into the ground in front of the keeper to avoid the hook. Has work to do to get stronger but I could easily see a FF line of Ger Aylward, John Walsh and Billy Ryan scoring ridiculous amounts of goals in the next few years
    Scored 2-2
    Subs
    21 Sean Morrissey to little to rate but did very well worked really hard and scored a lovely point at his ease.
    Jack McGrath and Shane Donnelly not really on long enough or didn't get into it a huge amount in their time on the field.

    From that game and what I know I would say the following are Senior definites
    Jason Cleere
    Richie Leahy
    Billy Ryan
    John Walsh
    Most of these need to get stronger but they have the talent hopefully they have the temperament too.

    Probably make it
    Like Scanlon
    Conor Delaney
    Alan Murphy
    Sean Morrissey
    These lads will definitely get an opportunity and hopefully they take it. Scanlon has all the skill but would get murdered in a intercounty senior game he has Cha's frame if he can bulk up a bit he'd be savage.

    Could make it
    Evan Cody
    Tom Aylward
    Cody is not as confident as he has been, if he is then he's a definite senior prospect but needs to sort his head out a bit for me. Only my second time seeing Tom but I like what I see but I would need to see more to be convinced.

    Jason Cleere was the cause of 1-2 in first 5 mins.


  • #1901
    unrealtime
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 364 ✭✭unrealtime


    Just to clarify, that Clare under 21 team that was hammered by Waterford started with 9 of that intermediate team.


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  • #1902
    Arcade_Tryer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Arcade_Tryer


    Powerhouse wrote: »
    Just curious: can you identify what inter county teams have a priority to be physical first and play hurling later? It seems like Kilkenny are being presented as some kind of outlier.
    Well, Kilkenny have often been criticised for being over physical and "playing on the edge". So really it's important to put that crap to rest.

    And to answer your question, I would say Galway in the last two years. Not all of their players, but a select few have played in quite a nasty and ultimately pointless manner.


  • #1903
    Realt Dearg Sec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,103 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    Enda Mcevoy related conspiracy theories aside, how are we all feeling today? On the one hand I'm fairly confident we have the beating of Waterford, especially if they play "the system" too zealously (I'd go so far as to say they can't beat us playing like that), on the other, this is a lovely set up for an ambush. If McGrath has any imagination at all he should have an approach to today's have that is responsive to the team he's facing instead of a cookie cutter approach. I would probably play a sweeper if I was him, focused on limiting (but not chasing round the park) hogan, but keep more players committed fill forward with a view to knicking a goal. If they get a lead they'll park the bus and if not they'll aim to keep it tight then let loose in the second half, especially if they keep us limited in the third quarter.

    But I expect him to keep faith with his usual "hurling with the handbrake on" approach, which our midfield is perfectly designed to break up, and hogan dragging a spare man all over the place to free up space to run at them.


  • #1904
    kksaints
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,067 ✭✭✭kksaints


    Think we'll do it by around 5 points. Waterford are a good side and have some decent players but I think their forward line just isnt good enough to hit the scores required to beat us.


  • #1905
    Arcade_Tryer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Arcade_Tryer


    KK need to start scoring goals more regularly.

    Is Colin Fennelly playing? He has the ability to score a goal in every game he plays yet seems to always come up short. Terribly underwhelming player considering his hurling and physical ability.


  • #1906
    kksaints
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,067 ✭✭✭kksaints


    Close one that. Infairness Waterford played extremely well today.


  • #1907
    Dan Chipowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭Dan Chipowski


    Familiar story with Kilkenny, so many players completely under-performing and yet still coming out of the game with something. Power, Walsh, Farrell, TJ Reid, Both Fennellys all had poor games.

    Waterford had the game for the taking and hit three bad wides in a row. They threw it away, and it was a sorry sight to see them returning to the one inside forward tactics for the last 15 minutes or so. Complete lunacy from Derek McGrath.


  • #1908
    Arcade_Tryer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Arcade_Tryer


    Mulbert wrote: »
    Yes he was playing. He was in front of me a one stage. But i think there are other hurling men who know more than u!
    I asked that before the game as I hadn't seen the teams! He worked hard as usual but with his ability he should be offering much more in terms of scores. He did well for the goal mind you. I think he is a capable of much more.

    Anyway, goals win games. And sometimes they keep you in one.


  • #1909
    Mulbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 497 ✭✭Mulbert


    Hammer Archer wrote:
    This is consistently the most active thread don the GAA forum. As a result, discussion can get quite heated. But there are certain things posters must realise are simply not OK to post:

    Arcade_Tryer wrote:
    I asked that before the game as I hadn't seen the teams! He worked hard as usual but with his ability he should be offering much more in terms of scores. He did well for the goal mind you. I think he is a capable of much more.


    How many goals do you think he should have scored to equal the sum of his physical attributes?


  • #1910
    Realt Dearg Sec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,103 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    Mulbert wrote: »
    How many goals do you think he should have scored to equal the sum of his physical attributes?

    Some, instead of none, would be good.


  • #1911
    kk.man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,087 ✭✭✭kk.man


    Here's one for the next day ;
    Leave K Joyce off. His place to go to either Mick Fennelly or Conor Fogarty thus giving Lester his start at Mid field.

    The 15 KK players that finished the game should start. Oh give Buckley a lesson in patients...that should do it!


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  • #1912
    Topcat32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 552 ✭✭✭Topcat32


    kk.man wrote: »
    Here's one for the next day ;
    Leave K Joyce off. His place to go to either Mick Fennelly or Conor Fogarty thus giving Lester his start at Mid field.

    The 15 KK players that finished the game should start. Oh give Buckley a lesson in patients...that should do it!

    Think he should concentrate on hurling rather than medical training before next Sunday.


  • #1913
    kk.man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,087 ✭✭✭kk.man


    Topcat32 wrote: »
    kk.man wrote: »
    Here's one for the next day ;
    Leave K Joyce off. His place to go to either Mick Fennelly or Conor Fogarty thus giving Lester his start at Mid field.

    The 15 KK players that finished the game should start. Oh give Buckley a lesson in patients...that should do it!

    Think he should concentrate on hurling rather than medical training before next Sunday.
    Typo...patience


  • #1914
    Topcat32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 552 ✭✭✭Topcat32


    Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »
    Some, instead of none, would be good.

    I thought Colin was ok today, worked hard, got a nice point in the first half and did very well for the goal, forwards were getting poor ball all day. In general the big problem was that Waterford won nearly every ball when it went to ground, a lot of Kilkenny players got pushed off the ball pretty easily.


  • #1915
    Arcade_Tryer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Arcade_Tryer


    Mulbert wrote: »
    How many goals do you think he should have scored to equal the sum of his physical attributes?
    Not sure. How many do you think?


  • #1916
    dastardly00
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,561 ✭✭✭✭dastardly00


    We really, really got out of jail today.

    Waterford were immense; they were by far the better team.

    Fair play to the lads though for hanging on in there and getting the goal. I couldn't see us getting one at any stage, and we weren't going to be able to peg back Waterford by just getting points.

    Serious balls from Conor Fogarty to go for the point and get the equaliser. And as well from the lads to work it up to halfway and pass it to him. Anyone of them could have taken the easy option and just thumped it up the field.


  • #1917
    Philip82
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 193 ✭✭Philip82


    Next sat evening in Thurles, we know Waterford love to play there, Kilkenny have had good success there in the past too in league finals etc there but never really seem to shine in championship outings. Although different venue and maybe cooler conditions may help Kilkenny freshing up a bit from today which is needed big time i feel.


  • #1918
    dubcat51
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 731 ✭✭✭dubcat51


    Cant have john power as a starter.what about john walsh as a springeror bolger kelly or even alwayrd(dont no if fit)need a scoring forward at least from the bench.thought buckley second half was really good and backs in general played well.cody needs to find one (luke he has done before)for the replay


  • #1919
    blackcard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,317 ✭✭✭blackcard


    kksaints wrote: »
    Close one that. Infairness Waterford played extremely well today.
    Waterford were the better team today and if they had to take their goal chances would have won. I was at training twice last week and was concerned that the touch of a number of players was not as good as what it normally is at this time of year. I thought this showed up today with the pressure that Waterford put Kk under. However, I would be more hopeful about next week than I was about today. For 65 minutes everything Waterford hit seemed to go over the bar. There is no doubt that Kk are not as good as we were a few years ago. On a side note, I thought Waterford threw the ball a lot but I am probably biased


  • #1920
    dastardly00
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,561 ✭✭✭✭dastardly00


    blackcard wrote: »
    On a side note, I thought Waterford threw the ball a lot but I am probably biased

    I think every team does it, including ourselves. I think it's just always more noticeable when the opposition does it.

    I don't get annoyed by it anymore as I've accepted that a handpass is now a throw.


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  • #1921
    unrealtime
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 364 ✭✭unrealtime


    At one stage everything that Waterford hit went over the bar. They were just about the better team overall but not by much. Had Cilian Buckley been able to pass, game would have been a little different

    We will improve next week and we like the great pitch that Thurles is. I would start same team save for Larkin in place of John Power at the start.


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