Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

danganabu

Don't buy the complacency angle at all tbh, KK have been in that situation so many times before and delivered why would last week be any different.

If I was a KK supporter I would be concerned enough, they looked flat and one or two in particular looked very ''leggy'', it had an eeringly similar look to 2013, where the previous years battles with Tipp had left them drained and they cut each others throats.

The 6 day turnaround for a team with so many miles on the clock also has to be a huge concern. The big question for me is are Waterford going to be deflated having thrown everything at KK and having the game there for the taking and not closing the deal, or will that performance actually give them confidence and a belief that they can beat KK.

One thing that really impressed me about KK was how they kept their cool and stayed in the game when all around them was going wrong and so many forwards misfiring, obviously Walter Walsh's goal will be seen as a huge moment, but I felt that it was in the first half when Waterford were flying but couldn't ever get enough daylight between them and KK was where KK stayed in this AI, a lesser team would have panicked or crumbled.

danganabu

unrealtime wrote: »

KK won't get too many frees so.

Why would you want too many, surely just the right amount?

Maybe if Cody publicly attacks him after the match he will never be appointed for a KK championship match again

blackcard

Anyone know if training is open to the public this week. I presume training will be on Tuesday and Thursday?

dubcat51

Looking forward to saturday.everyone is saying were not as good waterford are the coming team. tipp would hammer us etc etc.hope our lads can raise the bar again and keep all the begruders at bay.crap like morans non point should have stood really annoys me.remember jamsie o connor saying the square ball vwaterford in 13 in thurles(pity it had to be chalked off)shows back then how some people want us beat at all costs

hurler on de ditch

http://www.the42.ie/tommy-dunne-hurling-analysis-kilkenny-waterford-2915632-Aug2016/

danganabu

dubcat51 wrote: »

Looking forward to saturday.everyone is saying were not as good waterford are the coming team. tipp would hammer us etc etc.hope our lads can raise the bar again and keep all the begruders at bay.crap like morans non point should have stood really annoys me.remember jamsie o connor saying the square ball vwaterford in 13 in thurles(pity it had to be chalked off)shows back then how some people want us beat at all costs

I haven't seen or heard a single person say that Tipp would hammer KK??

Nedflanders02

blackcard wrote: »

Anyone know if training is open to the public this week. I presume training will be on Tuesday and Thursday?

Not sure what evenings they are training but I know it is behind closed doors this week.

tbiggertycome

Nedflanders02 wrote: »

Not sure what evenings they are training but I know it is behind closed doors this week.

That had a recovery session Monday and pool session Tuesday morning and training Tuesday night I think they're training again Thursday but it could be Friday.

unrealtime

I expect a Leinster double this weekend; Galway should be too good for an untried and callow Tipp team.

blackcard

unrealtime wrote: »

I expect a Leinster double this weekend; Galway should be too good for an untried and callow Tipp team.

To me, Tipp look like the team to beat. The addition of John Mcgrath, Michael Been, Ronan Maher plus playing Brendan Maher in his best position seems to have made a big improvement

JJs Left Hand

McGrath is quality but the rest.....

Think Ronan Maher is a bit over hyped so far. Didn't do much against Waterford in the U21 but he's only 20. Have no doubt he'll be a quality player but at the minute he's unproven. Jury out on Breen and McCormack still. Breen started like a train but there's something about him that makes me wonder how good he actually is.

Clonmel1000

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

McGrath is quality but the rest.....

Think Ronan Maher is a bit over hyped so far. Didn't do much against Waterford in the U21 but he's only 20. Have no doubt he'll be a quality player but at the minute he's unproven. Jury out on Breen and McCormack still. Breen started like a train but there's something about him that makes me wonder how good he actually is.

Unproven even though at 20 he's 2 Munster senior medals in the locker. I wouldn't be using the u21 defeat as a barometer. Hopefully Breen will get the chance to show you how good he is.

danganabu

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

Unproven even though at 20 he's 2 Munster senior medals in the locker. I wouldn't be using the u21 defeat as a barometer. Hopefully Breen will get the chance to show you how good he is.

I don't think its unfair to say Ronan still has a lot to prove, he is definitely a better CB than his brother, therefore we have improved the team from last year, whether we have improved it enough is the question. Munster Medals to be fair are becoming more irrelevant by the week a means to an end is all the Munster Championship has unfortunately been reduced to. Championship hurling started last Sunday.

With that in mind then yes Tipp could be categorised as untested, but all the evidence is there in from of people to form their own views, I certainly think the 2016 model is vastly superior to the flat 2015 model who were depending on the excellence of one or two individuals.

Fully agree with your assessment of Mikey Breen, has been Tipp's best player this year and is an incredible athlete, played full back in last years U21 Munster Semi and gave an absolute exhibition, could hurl anywhere. I don't think anyone could argue that himself and Brendan Maher isn't a better combination that Woody and Shane McGrath from last year.

Cornerback1

blackcard wrote: »

unrealtime wrote: »

I expect a Leinster double this weekend; Galway should be too good for an untried and callow Tipp team.

To me, Tipp look like the team to beat. The addition of John Mcgrath, Michael Been, Ronan Maher plus playing Brendan Maher in his best position seems to have made a big improvement

I think they have a better bench!

blackcard

Enough about Tipp, need to get over Waterford first

Michael Kavanagh

Will Kieran Joyce be centre back Saturday he had a bad day last sunday I say the bad knock he got before half time didn't help him .

blackcard

Michael Kavanagh wrote: »

Will Kieran Joyce be centre back Saturday he had a bad day last sunday I say the bad knock he got before half time didn't help him .

I think Joyce will play, I reckon Cody will be looking for his forwards to put more pressure on the Waterford backs and ask Fogarty to drop a bit deeper. Joyce's forte would be contesting high balls with a forward. Instead he is being faced with forwards running at him. In fairness, I think any traditional centre half would struggle faced with this. Fogarty would probably fare better but who would provide the cover that Fogarty currently gives. I don't think there is any other option as Rob Lennon is another traditional style centre half

Cornerback1

blackcard wrote: »

Michael Kavanagh wrote: »

Will Kieran Joyce be centre back Saturday he had a bad day last sunday I say the bad knock he got before half time didn't help him .

I think Joyce will play, I reckon Cody will be looking for his forwards to put more pressure on the Waterford backs and ask Fogarty to drop a bit deeper. Joyce's forte would be contesting high balls with a forward. Instead he is being faced with forwards running at him. In fairness, I think any traditional centre half would struggle faced with this. Fogarty would probably fare better but who would provide the cover that Fogarty currently gives. I don't think there is any other option as Rob Lennon is another traditional style centre half

True. I think he will stick with Joyce at 6. He'll be ready for the battle. Waterford dominated the skies last Sunday so hopefully we'll be more competitive there this Saturday. Forwards need to put the Waterford backs on the back foot, up the workrate and get the hooks and blocks in. Waterford got their strikes away far too easy on Sunday.

droppingball

I get the feeling he will leave Joyce at 6 and we will drop very deep. So have midfield sitting in and half forward line dropping out and try and win the physical exchanges by getting more bodies into rucks.

It seemed to be 3 against 1 in every physical exchange around the middle of the field last weekend. So commit more bodies there and also have more support off the rucks to recycle the ball and move it. When we did win exchanges of breaking ball we tried to drive forward or tried to hit the ball in tight spaces. We need the likes of buckley and padraig walsh dropping off taking a hand pass and moving it forward that way. These will lead to better ball and if the forwards can up the hooks and blocks we would reap the rewards.

Either way I feel there will be a few tactical and personnel changes as Cody normally comes back with something different for a replay.

tbiggertycome

I think he will change it up also but I don't know how much room he has to make changes. After the '12 and '14 AI's Cody had 3 weeks to get the lads back together have a few training matches, work on things and let lads put there hands up in training for a spot. This time like the draws against Dublin '13 and Galway '14 we only have 6 days to turn those draws around. In the first draw against Dublin '13 we were useless and the same in the replay. To be honest most of that year we were leaden legged and tired and the better teams beat us when we couldn't rise our game. Against Galway in '14 we were coasting and took the eye off the ball and Galway drove at us and got a rake of goals to haul us back for the draw.

For the Dublin drawn match we went out with
Murphy
Murphy, JJ, C Fogarty
Tommy, B Hogan, Joyce
L Ryan, M Rice
Buckley, R Power, Larkin
Wally, R Hogan, C Fennelly
Subs
P Hogan for P Murphy 33mins
TJ for Rice HT
Taggy for Colin 59mins
M Ruth for R Power 62mins

The drawn match we lined out with
Murphy
C Fogarty, JJ, Jackie
Tommy, B Hogan, Joyce
Buckley, R Power
Wally, M Rice, Larkin
Taggy, Hogan, TJ
Subs
Lester for Buckley 21mins
C Fennelly for Rice 25mins
M Ruth for Wally 60 mins
P Walsh for Jackie 64mins
G Aylward for TJ 65mins
The lads in green are in a different positions, Red are new introductions for the replay. So you can see he made 3 personnel changes and moved 5 lads around.

For the games against Galway in '14 we lined out like this for the drawn match.
Murphy
Murphy, JJ, B Kennedy
Joyce, Jackie, Buckley
Padraig, R Hogan
Wally, M Kelly, TJ
Colin, R Power, Larkin
Subs
M Walsh for Kennedy 34mins
Tommy for Wally 43mins
Taggy for Power 52mins
Henry for M Kelly 62mins
B Hogan for Jackie 68mins

The replay we lined out like so
Murphy
Murphy, JJ, Jackie
J Houlden, B Hogan, Buckley
C Fogarty, R Hogan
Tommy, Padraig, TJ
Colin, Taggy, Larkin
subs
Herity for Murphy 8mins
J Power for Colin 52mins
Lester for C Fogarty 58mins
Henry for Tommy 62 mins
Wally for Taggy 68mins

So for the Galway replay he made 5 personnel changes in red and 2 positional switches as we all remember he kept all this under his hat until the last 20 mins before the match. From talking to one of the players about that day he said they went out and did a warm up on the pitch an hour before the game came back into the dressing room and then Cody stuck the team sheet up on the wall and they went up to see if they were playing and where.

Do we have the players to make 3 or 5 changes this year? I can see him moving lads around and the likes and possibly bringing in Lester and Larkin but will we have 7 to 8 changes we had in those games? Do we need to make that many changes or do the lads who started the last day just need a kick in the a*** and a large dose of refocusing. It was largely the same team the easily took care of Dublin and over came Galway well in the end.

Twiceasnice97

tbiggertycome wrote: »

I think he will change it up also but I don't know how much room he has to make changes after the '12 and '14 AI's he had 3 weeks to get the lads back together have a few training matches work on things and let lads put there hands up in training for a spot. This time like the draw against Dublin '13 and Galway '14 we only have 6 days to turn those draws around. In the first draw against Dublin '13 we were useless and the replay. To be honest most of that year we were leaden legged and tired and the better teams beat us when we couldn't rise our game. Galway in '14 we were coasting and took the eye off the ball and Galway drove at us and got a rake of goals to haul us back for the draw. For the Dublin drawn match we went out with
Murphy
Murphy, JJ, C Fogarty
Tommy, B Hogan, Joyce
L Ryan, M Rice
Buckley, R Power, Larkin
Wally, R Hogan, C Fennelly
Subs
P Hogan for P Murphy 33mins
TJ for Rice HT
Taggy for Colin 59mins
M Ruth for R Power 62mins

The drawn match we lined out with
Murphy
C Fogarty, JJ, Jackie
Tommy, B Hogan, Joyce
Buckley, R Power
Wally, M Rice, Larkin
Taggy, Hogan, TJ
Subs
Lester for Buckley 21mins
C Fennelly for Rice 25mins
M Ruth for Wally 60 mins
P Walsh for Jackie 64mins
G Aylward for TJ 65mins
The lads in green are in a different positions, Red are new introductions for the replay. So you can see he made 3 personnel changes and moved 5 lads around.

For the games against Galway in '14 we lined out like this for the drawn match.
Murphy
Murphy, JJ, B Kennedy
Joyce, Jackie, Buckley
Padraig, R Hogan
Wally, M Kelly, TJ
Colin, R Power, Larkin
Subs
M Walsh for Kennedy 34mins
Tommy for Wally 43mins
Taggy for Power 52mins
Henry for M Kelly 62mins
B Hogan for Jackie 68mins

The replay we lined out like so
Murphy
Murphy, JJ, Jackie
J Houlden, B Hogan, Buckley
C Fogarty, R Hogan
Tommy, Padraig, TJ
Colin, Taggy, Larkin
subs
Herity for Murphy 8mins
J Power for Colin 52mins
Lester for C Fogarty 58mins
Henry for Tommy 62 mins
Wally for Taggy 68mins

So for the Galway replay he made 5 personnel changes in red and 2 positional switches as we all remember he kept all this under his hat until the last 20 mins before the match. From talking to one of the players about that day he said they went out and did a warm up on the pitch an hour before the game came back into the dressing room and then Cody stuck the team sheet up on the wall and they went up to see if they were playing and where.

Do we have the players to make 3 or 5 changes this year?

its unlikely.
Joyce is a case in point.
he got cleaned by Gleeson. normally Kilkenny would be expecting joyce to come back at Gleeson but he is such a huge talent its possible he could do more damage Saturday but the dilemma is what do you do.
Joyce can only play at 6 and unless Kilkenny pick lennon there who else can be chosen. I wouldn't fancy chancing lennon on Gleeson

in the forwards unless he just parachutes john walsh in there its hard to see much he can do to affect the scoreboard.
lester ryan and eoin larkin are unlikely to hit a lot of scores unless they have a big big day.

I suspect he will swop larkin for power myself and start Farrell again

Waterford would appear to have better options off the bench in shanahan curran and maybe Stephen Bennett as a wild card. more workmanlike options like devine and brian o Halloran are there as well.

unrealtime

Can't see more than Larkin and maybe Lester coming in. Joyce can redeem himself. We need to be in the right places to contest breaking ball. We weren't on Sunday. That really cost us.

Twiceasnice97

unrealtime wrote: »

Can't see more than Larkin and maybe Lester coming in. Joyce can redeem himself. We need to be in the right places to contest breaking ball. We weren't on Sunday. That really cost us.

If he starts and Gleeson goes in on him he might be under pressure which could unsettle the defence.
instead of holden having cover he might have to be bailing joyce out?

danganabu

Twiceasnice97 wrote: »

its unlikely.
Joyce can only play at 6 and unless Kilkenny pick lennon there who else can be chosen.

Wasn't Joyce always a wing back until the 2014 Replay?

mullinr2

If and its a big IF,we get past Waterford and Tipp beat Galway, I have a feeling Tipp will gives us a mother of all hidings in the final. Tipp players have really upped their intensity, couple that with the skillful forwards they have. Bar Hogan and TJ, I would take the two Mcgraths, o Dwyer and Callinan over the rest of our forwards. Lester Ryan might be starting in our forwards ffs.

citykat

I'd be very surprised if Gleeson has a game like that again in the replay. Like Waterford, he blows hot and cold particularly at senior level. I'd doubt if he'll get that kind of space again whether it's tactics or just the way the ball breaks. It amazes me. Before the game, Waterford were completely written off no hopers. Talk about zero to hero. The outcome of the drawn game was a combination of a KK sub par performance and a Waterford purple patch. Are those two events likely to coincide? I don't think so.
The remedy for the next day is Larks in and make the midfield a no go area for the faint hearted.

danganabu

citykat wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if Gleeson has a game like that again in the replay. Like Waterford, he blows hot and cold particularly at senior level. I'd doubt if he'll get that kind of space again whether it's tactics or just the way the ball breaks. It amazes me. Before the game, Waterford were completely written off no hopers. Talk about zero to hero. The outcome of the drawn game was a combination of a KK sub par performance and a Waterford purple patch. Are those two events likely to coincide? I don't think so.
The remedy for the next day is Larks in and make the midfield a no go area for the faint hearted.

It amazes me how from 10 mins of slightly above average hurling that Larkin has gone from past it and a good squad player to the saviour. If KK start Larkin, that's Larkin and Fennelly who have to be replaced for the last 20 mins and with KK's relatively shallow bench that's a pretty big risk that the remaining forwards/midfield are all on song.

hurler on de ditch

citykat wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if Gleeson has a game like that again in the replay. Like Waterford, he blows hot and cold particularly at senior level. I'd doubt if he'll get that kind of space again whether it's tactics or just the way the ball breaks. It amazes me. Before the game, Waterford were completely written off no hopers. Talk about zero to hero. The outcome of the drawn game was a combination of a KK sub par performance and a Waterford purple patch. Are those two events likely to coincide? I don't think so.
The remedy for the next day is Larks in and make the midfield a no go area for the faint hearted.

if you really looked at the game KK were very very good marvelous scores great work rate ,overall they were excellent but waterford were just that little bit better on the day ,usually when we loose and that can be quiet often ,we lose because we were beaten by the better team on the day ,according to yourself the only reason KK lost was because they were sub par ,not at all just hurled off the pitch and still got the draw, that is some team down by 5 ,time running out and got a result ,fair play ,

Irish Beef

mullinr2 wrote: »

If and its a big IF,we get past Waterford and Tipp beat Galway, I have a feeling Tipp will gives us a mother of all hidings in the final. Tipp players have really upped their intensity, couple that with the skillful forwards they have. Bar Hogan and TJ, I would take the two Mcgraths, o Dwyer and Callinan over the rest of our forwards. Lester Ryan might be starting in our forwards ffs.

Don't think its a big if at all, Waterford had their homework done on us last time, very hard for Kilkenny to know what way Waterford were going to play, Waterford got the bounce of the ball and everything they hit went over for them, no doubt they played really well, worked their socks off, Kilkenny didn't work hard enough, they probably took Waterford for granted as well ( whole county did) Think it'll be a different story this Saturday. If Kilkenny can out with a draw last Sunday they have every chance of turning it around on sat. Think Larkin should start as well.

tbiggertycome

Team announced for the Kil v Wat Replay
E Murphy
P Murphy J Holden S Prendergast
P Walsh K Joyce C Buckley
C Fogarty M Fennelly
W Walsh TJ Reid J Power
JJ Farrell C Fennelly R Hogan
Subs
R Reid
J Tyrrell
R Lennon
C oShea
L Ryan
E Larkin
C Martin
K Kelly
M Bergin
L Blanchfield
M Malone
Doubt this team will line out though on the day.