Army "called in to shoot cows over debt dispute"

Barry Badrinath · 06-07-2016 07:59PM

humberklog wrote: »

Did they use Moozi sub machine guns?

Best pun in here so far!

Da Regulator · 06-07-2016 08:03PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Yet it seems their handlers were previously able to get them into a crush, where a veterinary surgeon was able to inject them with tuberculin; come back a few days later and measure their lesions with a calipers, or at least, get close enough to visually detect any possible swelling.

Bit contradictory, no?

Jesus Christ. Do you really think the debt collector is going to go to the massive trouble of getting the defence forces involved to cull some cattle unless absolutely necessary? It's not like you just give them a call and they pop out in a jiffy as fast as a domino's pizza delivery man. Get a grip pal.

Kovu · 06-07-2016 08:03PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

It may have happened before in Cork, I don't know, but I'm not sure there's actually a go-to procedure. It's exceptionally rare to hear of animals that could once be herded into a crush for a TB test, and later a reading, suddenly becoming incapable of capture.

The above article says the animals were shot in "a controlled environment", which indicates they weren't wandering the roads at that stage.

I don't particularly care either way, this is no skin off my nose. If I was a neighbouring farmer, i'd be glad of the outcome.

Using Army resources in this way just seems a bit odd. Then again, I'm sure if I were in the army, I'd relish the opportunity to finally fire a shot.

This is the case in Cork- http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cattle-cull-described-as-pure-slaughter-64267.html 31 animals were shot by army snipers on the farm of Roger Broderick because of a TB outbreak in the area and animals were not tagged.
When i use the term 'go-to procedure' I mean that it's what happens in cases where animals are deemed dangerous to the wider public and there is no other way to safely remove them from the area.
Cattle can and do dislike crushes and will not go up them. I had a cow turn on me only last week because I was trying to get her up the crush for AI. The previous time she had been up it she had gone down during calving and had bad memories of it so it was easier to turn around and go to attack me than go up the crush :pac: I put in a second calmer cow with her and she went up no bother. The cattle in this story were probably ran around the fields for hours and if the article is right, had been wandering loose at night as well so weren't in any sort of quiet state to allow themselves to be penned.

Da Regulator · 06-07-2016 08:06PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Using Army resources in this way just seems a bit odd. Then again, I'm sure if I were in the army, I'd relish the opportunity to finally fire a shot.

Good man. If you actually had insight to what the DF do you might realise that it is not all plain sailing (for example they are deployed in the Golan Heights which is seriously volatile). But hey, keep on spouting your line pal, you know best.

evolving_doors · 06-07-2016 08:08PM

Kovu wrote: »

This is the case in Cork- http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cattle-cull-described-as-pure-slaughter-64267.html 31 animals were shot by army snipers on the farm of Roger Broderick because of a TB outbreak in the area and animals were not tagged.
When i use the term 'go-to procedure' I mean that it's what happens in cases where animals are deemed dangerous to the wider public and there is no other way to safely remove them from the area.
Cattle can and do dislike crushes and will not go up them. I had a cow turn on me only last week because I was trying to get her up the crush for AI. The previous time she had been up it she had gone down during calving and had bad memories of it so it was easier to turn around and go to attack me than go up the crush :pac: I put in a second calmer cow with her and she went up no bother. The cattle in this story were probably ran around the fields for hours and if the article is right, had been wandering loose at night as well so weren't in any sort of quiet state to allow themselves to be penned.

Blah blah blah.... I was trying to get her up the crush.... Blah blah blah..
Say what!

selastich2 · 06-07-2016 08:10PM

I'm surprised the army herd

RobertKK · 06-07-2016 08:15PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Yet it seems their handlers were previously able to get them into a crush, where a veterinary surgeon was able to inject them with tuberculin; come back a few days later and measure their lesions with a calipers, or at least, get close enough to visually detect any possible swelling.

Bit contradictory, no?

The thing is: who was rounding up the cattle? Was it the owners or strangers to the cattle.
If the owners were not helping or failing to co-operate then you have a totally different scenario, even quiet cattle can become very nervous if it is people they don't recognise handling them.

Johnmuck · 06-07-2016 08:17PM

This debt dispute will be covered in an upcoming episode of TV3/Channel5 show... "Can't pay, we'll take your hay."

Buford T. Justice XIX · 06-07-2016 08:18PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Yet it seems their handlers were previously able to get them into a crush, where a veterinary surgeon was able to inject them with tuberculin; come back a few days later and measure their lesions with a calipers, or at least, get close enough to visually detect any possible swelling.

Bit contradictory, no?

In the above link, it states that there were positive TB reactors in the herd and that the handlers had attempted to bring the animals into the handling facilities, sometimes succeeding, sometimes not.

There is no mention that all the herd was tested only that some had tested positive. If those 5 had not been tested or not been able to have been checked for positive or negative reactions due to an inability to successfully restrain the animals, and they were subsequently roaming the countryside as a danger to both residents and other cattle populations, there was no other option but to put them down.

There's no conspiracy here, just a least worst option being taken.

mynamejeff · 06-07-2016 08:34PM

the hub post of facebook mentions CAB a few times ,

I wonder who would be dealing with CAB in that part of the country ?

Definitely not a normal assets seizure issue , I wonder if some one more "provisional" was involved that required the army presence.

As usual with the hub and alike site half the facts little informational and a load of twaddle.

Might never know what happened

06-07-2016 08:35PM

Reminds me of...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9Jr2jkbfzk

Kovu · 06-07-2016 08:37PM

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Blah blah blah.... I was trying to get her up the crush.... Blah blah blah..
Say what!

:P A chute.

foggy_lad · 06-07-2016 08:37PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'm afraid I have more faith in the ability of our veterinary professionals than I do in the men-in-green. I'm not sure what makes you so certain about the abilities of those guys as animal marksmen.

Vets will only use the bolt on animals secured in a crush, otherwise the local Gardai are asked to deal with the situation which they do by getting the army to shoot the animal.

As for the men and women in our Army being animal marksmen, they can target track and shoot and they are trained to follow orders without letting sentiment or any other nonsense get in the way.

If they were TB reactors, they've obviously been captured and put in a crush (at least twice) recently.

They were never described as TB reactors, what was said is that the herd was "extensively" tested and there were some reactors which means the whole herd is restricted. There is no evidence that these 5 heifers were ever tested or had previously been rounded up and examined or put in a crush.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Let me rephrase... bringing in the army for a job like this seems a bit mad.

I assume there are details which are not being reported, becuase on the face of it, it isn't clear why Gardai, and a vet, or a slaughterhouse couldn't do it.

Generally rural Gardai are not armed, The local vets would not do anything unless the animals were in a crush first, they have their own safety to consider. And they were not able to round these 5 animals up and load them onto a trailer or lorry so how were they to transport them to the local slaughterhouse?

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Yet it seems their handlers were previously able to get them into a crush, where a veterinary surgeon was able to inject them with tuberculin; come back a few days later and measure their lesions with a calipers, or at least, get close enough to visually detect any possible swelling.

Bit contradictory, no?

There is no evidence of this, only that there were some reactors in the herd which had restrictions placed because of that.

Alf Stewart. · 06-07-2016 08:51PM

mynamejeff wrote: »

the hub post of facebook mentions CAB a few times ,

I wonder who would be dealing with CAB in that part of the country ?

Definitely not a normal assets seizure issue , I wonder if some one more "provisional" was involved that required the army presence.

As usual with the hub and alike site half the facts little informational and a load of twaddle.

Might never know what happened

Was it "Paperbag Pete"?

Mean bastard with his paperbag hat, paperbag trousers, and his paperbag jacket?

CAB have done him for rustling now a good few times.:rolleyes:

arybvtcw0eolkf · 06-07-2016 08:51PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'm afraid I have more faith in the ability of our veterinary professionals than I do in the men-in-green. I'm not sure what makes you so certain about the abilities of those guys as animal marksmen.

Very simple.

'Hey Sgt Murphy, shoot the animal here X ~ and not here X.. Simple as that.

Odelay · 06-07-2016 08:52PM

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Blah blah blah.... I was trying to get her up the crush.... Blah blah blah..
Say what!

What was that post about???? She explained her experience with cattle, do you have more experience with cattle? Tell us about your experience handling cows, especially for neighbours that may not have handled them correctly.

Johnmuck · 06-07-2016 08:54PM

mynamejeff wrote: »

the hub post of facebook mentions CAB a few times ,

I wonder who would be dealing with CAB in that part of the country ?

Giving the situation it's probably Tractor CAB

BattleCorp · 06-07-2016 09:04PM

Bambi wrote: »

While we're here anyone know the official line from the guards of having fellas with covered faces showing in cars with plates and tax disks covered up at these evictions .

No law against covering your face but it's certainly illegal to cover up a licence plate and a tax disc.

BattleCorp · 06-07-2016 09:14PM

I can't multiquote but I don't believe the cattle were shot because of TB or public safety reasons.

I can't link to it but the article says the receiver said that he couldn't remove the cattle due to security issues.

Did the owner of this farm have links to naughty boys who aren't supposed to exist anymore? I'll give a clue, the ra.

Fluffy Cat 88 · 06-07-2016 09:15PM

Maybe they were shot by mis-steak.

There must be a lot more to this story than is being reported by the media though. None of it makes any sense.

Robsweezie · 06-07-2016 09:18PM

they must have Friesian cold hearts to do something like that.

ah here, shoot me and all

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 06-07-2016 09:32PM

Kovu wrote: »

This is the case in Cork- http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cattle-cull-described-as-pure-slaughter-64267.html 31 animals were shot by army snipers on the farm of Roger Broderick because of a TB outbreak in the area and animals were not tagged.
When i use the term 'go-to procedure' I mean that it's what happens in cases where animals are deemed dangerous to the wider public and there is no other way to safely remove them from the area.
Cattle can and do dislike crushes and will not go up them. I had a cow turn on me only last week because I was trying to get her up the crush for AI. The previous time she had been up it she had gone down during calving and had bad memories of it so it was easier to turn around and go to attack me than go up the crush :pac: I put in a second calmer cow with her and she went up no bother. The cattle in this story were probably ran around the fields for hours and if the article is right, had been wandering loose at night as well so weren't in any sort of quiet state to allow themselves to be penned.

The older they are the more they seem to hate the crush. We had 2 year old bullocks clear crushes, and actual try fire themselves over walls to avoid going in and there's nothing more stubborn than a frightened animal.

I feel terrible for the poor cattle but I've never heard of the army coming in to shoot animals, even on TB farms so I doubt it was a decision made lightly.

foggy_lad · 06-07-2016 10:08PM

I wonder is this the same John Hoey?
http://www.independent.ie/regionals/argus/news/tillage-farmer-facing-charges-related-to-oil-laundering-plant-26900496.html

pgj2015 · 06-07-2016 10:21PM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

The older they are the more they seem to hate the crush. We had 2 year old bullocks clear crushes, and actual try fire themselves over walls to avoid going in and there's nothing more stubborn than a frightened animal.

I feel terrible for the poor cattle but I've never heard of the army coming in to shoot animals, even on TB farms so I doubt it was a decision made lightly.

they were called in to shoot wild goats during the foot and mouth outbreak.

Barry Badrinath · 06-07-2016 10:26PM

It's terrible Joe.

My neighbours, cousins, Mexican rug cleaner said she saw d'army putting grenades up ducks bums because they couldn't jump up the kerbs.

S'terrible

topmanamillion · 06-07-2016 10:43PM

Pure **** stirring story.
The herd was TB positive so they had to be culled anyway. I can only assume that the owners were less than cooperative with the removal of the animals.
Some of the comments underneath the story are just madness and rambling.

Joe prim · 06-07-2016 10:44PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

When you have a raging bull charging towards you, you don't pause to ask him his thoughts on transubstantiation

Maybe, but a lot of cattle, particularly Herefords and Angus crossbred are very weak on general theology.

06-07-2016 10:45PM

Odelay wrote: »

What was that post about???? She explained her experience with cattle, do you have more experience with cattle? Tell us about your experience handling cows, especially for neighbours that may not have handled them correctly.

Trying to "get her up the crush"

my friend · 06-07-2016 10:46PM

Andy Magic wrote: »

Scumbags :mad:

who? Irish water protesters?

FortySeven · 06-07-2016 10:52PM

Reading between the lines here but it sounds like the owner was doing his utmost to derail the repossession, probably with the assistance of local associates and various agencies were reluctant to get involved due to previous 'incidents'.

15 cattle gone missing, no doubt hidden away by an accomplice while they are likely infected with TB, public safety put in jeopardy, private property damaged, massive costs accrued by the receiver and the exchequer. Garda time wasted amongst others.

After reading the thread on the cattle auction debacle previously I have to say I see farmers in a new light. It is bad enough that the majority of their income has to come from the taxpayer but to add this sort of craic to the mix and it does not show some of them in a very positive light at all.

This whole, 'it's a way of life' and 'tied to the land' ****e just has to stop. It is a business and it is unsustainable in its current form. Massive consolidation is needed in the industry because it looks like there is a large hardcore of farmers who are just out to **** the system under the guise of heritage. They seem to think they are above the law and above economic realities.

They don't just come and repossess farms. It takes a talent to get to that point.

Army "called in to shoot cows over debt dispute"

Comments