you should just "GET OVER" ever owning a home says PP boss

conorhal · 17-06-2016 02:20PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I think she is right , too much in the Irish mindset that you need to own your home, it's been drilled into generations of people that they should own a home.

This has become such a rote learned argument, repeated so often that it's taken as fact. Owning a home, having the shelter of a roof over your head is not an obsession, it's a basic necessity. Having the security of ownership to your shelter is common sense.
The degree to which the government view food, shelter and water, the very basics for human survival, as comodities is a very worrying trend.

What yer wan actually means is that the plebs will have to be trained to accept that all their desposable income is to be funneled to the few, and the chances of accumulated wealth will deminish to nil. From now on you will 'owe your soul to the company store.'

For anybody who thinks renting for life is a good idea, consider whether or not you still want to be renting the day that you retire and your income becomes both deminished and fixed in a society with increecing pressure on housing demand and social services.

Junkyard Tom · 17-06-2016 02:20PM

She can fuck the fuck off.

smash · 17-06-2016 02:22PM

Why is anyone running, never mind even listening to the VP of global operations for PayPal's opinion on housing? It's like running an article saying that the CFO of Microsoft says people should get over the water charge.

She's not an authority on the subject, or any subject outside of PayPal. This isn't news ffs.

andekwarhola · 17-06-2016 02:22PM

There is a sense of entitlement in ireland when it comes to owning property.

Especially when so many people think they're being swindled from their God given right to own a place in a handful of toney Dublin suburbs (you don't get bitching in places like New York or London that an evil coalation of vested interests is preventing two teachers buying a house in Manhattan or St John's Wood).

That said, it is unfair to fully consider this properly when our rental sector is so flaky, unregulated and insecure.

Lyaiera · 17-06-2016 02:26PM

eeguy wrote: »

The government need to get off it's arse and initialise a housing program. Compulsory purchase the hundreds of acres of unused wasteland in Dublin city and surrounding areas, rezone for high rises and tender for developers.
Sell the houses for a marginal profit and rinse and repeat.

The Greens had something similar in their manifesto before the election. Except they were talking about renting. The government borrows the money to build with the housing as the collateral. Then they rent at reasonable rates to public, who have long term tenancy rights as well as more responsibility over the upkeep and management of where they're living. The problem with a government building and selling houses is well documented as problematic in the UK, particularly London where Thatcher selling off the state owned houses being seen as playing a huge part in the rocketing rental prices, and the cost of housing.

I can't see the state building huge amounts of housing. The 100% mortgages we had were a factor in the property bubble and market collapse, so there's problems with that. Increases in rights of tenants to take long term rents is something that's going to have to happen. Especially as right now it's impossible to get a tenancy agreement for a place for the medium term, let along the long term.

stoplooklisten · 17-06-2016 02:27PM

Nama, the biggest scam since sliced bread

Sh1tbag OToole · 17-06-2016 02:30PM

Everyone perpetually paying 3.25% fees to paypal for paying their rent would be a great little earner for her. No wonder she's in favour.

Saipanne · 17-06-2016 02:31PM

eeguy wrote: »

I don't like the idea that the house could be sold out from under me.

I don't like that I get no reward from putting my own money into the house and garden.

I don't like that I can't buy my own furniture and dump the existing stuff without LL approval.

I don't like that I can't paint the walls or put up shelves without LL approval.

I don't like that the shed at the bottom of the garden is locked and I don't have permission to access it.

I don't like that I'm just paying his mortgage.

I don't like that I'm living in a house and not a home.

The poor Swiss. Much worse off than us...,

stoplooklisten · 17-06-2016 02:43PM

awaits cryey article "I was criticized by online trolls"

Potatoeman · 17-06-2016 02:45PM

Saipanne wrote: »

1/5 of adults own a property in Switzerland. They must be going through dire times in that country...

It's far cheaper to rent, you have more security and there are professional landlords in many European countries. Many properties in Ireland are more expensive to rent than to buy.

conorhal · 17-06-2016 02:51PM

Potatoeman wrote: »

It's far cheaper to rent, you have more security and there are professional landlords in many European countries. Many properties in Ireland are more expensive to rent than to buy.

It's INSANELY expensive to rent in Switzerland, but it's inconceivably expensive to buy which is why most people rent. That and the fact that Switzerland has a highly transient population. Many people work there for a period and leave, many others buy in France and commute. I was offered a job there for mad money but when I factored in the cost of living I quickly realised it wasn't worth it, I'd have been no better off then I was here in real terms despite it being double what I currently earn.
They also have a lot of wierd laws about ownership, cheaper property is often in more isolate and deprived areas which prevent buyers from outside those cantons (I think), I'd have to ask my mate about it.

Alf Veedersane · 17-06-2016 02:53PM

The house next door to us was recently up for letting.

Same size house. The rent is 2.3 times our mortgage with all of the security that renting in Ireland brings with it.

That was the first time in my life I ever thought about being better off owning.

That said, if the rental market was more secure as many have pointed out, the 'must own' mentality would be much less, I suspect.

Jawgap · 17-06-2016 02:56PM

Potatoeman wrote: »

It's far cheaper to rent, you have more security and there are professional landlords in many European countries. Many properties in Ireland are more expensive to rent than to buy.

that's the problem here. I would never be a tenant here (again) and I would deffo never be a landlord.

if we had a 'proper' system of rent controls, and tenants' rights - if you had that institutional landlords would be much more interested in getting into the market and would be happy with 3% to 7% returns. As it is a lot of small (<3 properties) rely on rent to pay mortgages and that creates and upward pressure on rents.

smash · 17-06-2016 03:04PM

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

A full time job should mean a single person can easily afford a one bed. That's the whole point of renting and apartment living. That it's affordable. That is the level at which I would find rental prices appropriate. It's Dublin, it's not Manhatten. And it never will be.

Yea but you're forgetting about supply vs demand.

17-06-2016 03:04PM

Potatoeman wrote: »

It's far cheaper to rent, you have more security and there are professional landlords in many European countries. Many properties in Ireland are more expensive to rent than to buy.

Cheaper to rent what, exactly? A room in a house share with 6 other people? That's accommodation for students with no income. It most certainly isn't cheaper than a mortgage payment, and is significantly more expensive over a life time.

17-06-2016 03:06PM

smash wrote: »

Yea but you're forgetting about supply vs demand.

Supply is being kept artificially low with height restrictions and a lack of tax on developers sitting on land. Not to forget NAMA.

We are being ridden. It's one big pyramid scheme.

Akrasia · 17-06-2016 03:07PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I think she is right , too much in the Irish mindset that you need to own your home, it's been drilled into generations of people that they should own a home.

The difference between rich and poor, is the rich own, and the poor rent.

If it's a good investment to own property when you're rich, then it's utterly patronising for millionaires to tell ordinary middle class hard working people that they should never dream of owning their own place to live.

The only time rich people rent property is when they're renting it from a shell company to avoid tax

smash · 17-06-2016 03:11PM

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

Supply is being kept artificially low with height restrictions and a lack of tax on developers sitting on land. Not to forget NAMA.

We are being ridden. It's one big pyramid scheme.

Take off your tinfoil hat there Sergio.

Akrasia · 17-06-2016 03:12PM

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

Cheaper to rent what, exactly? A room in a house share with 6 other people? That's accommodation for students with no income. It most certainly isn't cheaper than a mortgage payment, and is significantly more expensive over a life time.

Way more expensive, and how is a retired person supposed to compete in the rental market with someone in the prime of their career?

Rents go up with inflation, mortgages go down as the loan is paid off. Renters die without any assets. House owners die with assets that can help their children get ahead in life

This is a key driver of inter-generational poverty.

SEPT 23 1989 · 17-06-2016 03:22PM

People won't retire,they will work until they become a burden on the corporations due to failing health and then liquidation

ClovenHoof · 17-06-2016 03:26PM

No reason why anyone should own a home when you think about it. Its banking scam at the end of the day.

The leasing system is the issue in Ireland. People should be allowed leases up to 25 years.

PopePalpatine · 17-06-2016 03:27PM

I can't be the only one who inferred a brainfart from Paddy Power from the thread title, can I?

smash · 17-06-2016 03:31PM

ClovenHoof wrote: »

No reason why anyone should own a home when you think about it. Its banking scam at the end of the day.

The leasing system is the issue in Ireland. People should be allowed leases up to 25 years.

And when they retire, how should they pay for rent for the next 20-30 years?

conorhal · 17-06-2016 03:31PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

People won't retire,they will work until they become a burden on the corporations due to failing health and then liquidation

Into the suicide booth you economically unviable individual!

I suspect that within a generation the elderly will form a substantial cohort of the homless.

diomed · 17-06-2016 03:38PM

PP is Paddy Power, not Paypal ffs.

SEPT 23 1989 · 17-06-2016 03:39PM

conorhal wrote: »

I suspect that within a generation the elderly will form a substantial cohort of the homless.

when the pensions bomb goes off it will be as bad as 2008

todays pensioners are living in a golden age

anyone under 35 will be lucky to get food stamps if they ever get to retire

diomed · 17-06-2016 03:41PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

todays pensioners are living in a golden age

I haven't noticed.

smash · 17-06-2016 03:44PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

todays pensioners are living in a golden age

I wouldn't have thought so. Thousands of pensions were pretty much wiped out by the property and banking collapse.

Hans Bricks · 17-06-2016 03:45PM

Yes, why on Earth would I want to own a property with no debt baggage by the time I retire ? Of course I want to keep paying the average mortgage value on a rental property with my pension. :rolleyes:

cerastes · 17-06-2016 03:48PM

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The renting laws need to change first.

1: Long term leases need to looked at. 10+years.

2; More long term security.

Only then will it be a viable option imo.

Its more about the security from rent increases, as someone says later on, how can a pensioner ( not to mention what they might pay this from assuming they ever had enough to get by anyway), even if they could manage to pay into a pension, it seems backwards, funding a pension, money into organisations to then hoover up properties for people to rent off.

stoplooklisten wrote: »

People was us to be more "european" when it comes to home ownership

Where's our 1.5% fixed 10/15 year mortgages like our European counterparts are enjoying at the moment?

or cheaper everything? when its about increased or different costs here, its all, "were different, transportation costs, unique market conditions, a dot on the landscape for large businesses.
but when its about realising the benefits, no chance.

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I don't think there's anything wrong with working towards owning your own home once you're realistic about it.
I know I'd rather pay a grand off my mortgage and have something to leave my child when I die than pay a grand to live somewhere.

I would be so worried that I would die and leave any kids I had without a home or anywhere to go. It's security and peace of mind

ffs, havent you heard of euthanasia or soylent green.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I never said there was anything wrong with it, I said too much pressure has been put on generations of people to do so.

Because the alternatives now are what?

beach_walker wrote: »

I think you'd be mad not to be looking at some form of home ownership in this country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XcGSJ6Of9g

the way it is now, and seems will be forever, yes.
I think you are being overly optimistic with that clip.

FTA69 wrote: »

The difference being that continental European tenants tend to have excellent tenant rights with secure tenure and decent rent structures instead of the total sh*tshow we have in Ireland and the U.K.

I dont know about that, been reading about problems in European markets where accomodation is limited, imagine queing up accomodation that with your zimmerframe, people are in strife looking for accomodation in stockholm, Berlin, by no means a utopia.

Baylor Long Riverside wrote: »

I wish we could be more like some continental countries where renting is a very safe and secure alternaive to buying your own property.

Too many people end up with a millstone around their neck here, paying off a mortgage on a house they don't particularly like, in an area they don't particularly want to live in. They can't take a job in another part of the country because the cost of moving would be too high, they can't move to an area they'd prefer because stamp duty, legal fees etc are prohibitive, they can't take any risks whatsoever with their careers because if they default on their mortgage their credit rating is ruined.

People who can't get on the ladder are made to feel like 'losers' because they're still renting in their forties or fifties.

There has to be a better way.

Wishful thinking

<SNIP>

Completely agree, but although thats a related but different element of the problem, its like a symptom of the failure to be able to provide suitable amounts of property (or a refusal/failure to provide accomodation), so no system can allow people to be kicked out.
Wasnt it only recently other countries EU ministers were horrified (or said they were) at the scale of the problem of access/availability to/of accomodation?

Carrot and stick, have a scale of taxes to incentivise small landlords to let, ie reduce taxes to make it viable to rent, do something about rogue landlords and tenants. Make it possible to rent an empty but suitable and assessed property, let people use their own furniture/washing machines/fridges, AND for furnished places allow shorter writing off of costs, ie every 4 years and not 8 for white goods.
Thats not inline with policy, which seems to be want to allow hedge funds own this.

For renting to be a viable option for tenants, it needs to be viable for landlords too, rights and responsibilities for both, Dont see how bansk cant offer a product to have accounts for deposits that can be run by a set of specific rules that could include some fixed costs and have minimal intervention, AND no setting up of a quango, especially one that is influenced by govt policy or is not impartial.

you should just "GET OVER" ever owning a home says PP boss

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