Season 6 Episode 8 "No One" - "Book readers"

14-06-2016 02:08PM

I always thought that Syrio and Jaqen were the same guy which is why he protects her (and smiled as Arya reclaims her name and says that she is going home to Winterfell)

EagererBeaver · 14-06-2016 02:35PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I always thought that Syrio and Jaqen were the same guy which is why he protects her (and smiled as Arya reclaims her name and says that she is going home to Winterfell)

That was a theory I always liked and in the book, when Jaqen discards his face after giving Arya the coin, the description of his new face was very much like Syrio.

matrim · 14-06-2016 02:39PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I always thought that Syrio and Jaqen were the same guy which is why he protects her (and smiled as Arya reclaims her name and says that she is going home to Winterfell)

Syrio is the guy who trained Arya how to use a sword in season 1. He was killed by Meryn Trant when they came to capture Arya after Ned was killed.

Jaqen met Arya when she was on the way to the wall with the Nights watch in season 2 and he helped Arya in Harrenhal

EagererBeaver · 14-06-2016 02:41PM

You never see Syrio killed. Don't think Trant mentions him subsequently either.

intheclouds · 14-06-2016 02:48PM

EagererBeaver wrote: »

You never see Syrio killed. Don't think Trant mentions him subsequently either.

Does he not tell Cersei he killed him (cant remember if that was books or show or either in fact!).

CMOTDibbler · 14-06-2016 03:00PM

awec wrote: »

I am concerned that they said they only had 2 seasons left. It feels like we've spent a long time building up to something that they're going to rush through in comparison.

The two seasons left aren't the full ten episodes either. D&D have said that there will be something like 13 episodes between seasons seven and eight.

14-06-2016 03:08PM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I know you put a lot into this post and you obviously feel strongly about it, but how do you know that it was only a day or two later that Arya and the Waif had their parkour chase? It could have been a week later or even more.

I did think about that, but there's nothing in Arya's scenes to suggest a passing of time any more significant than a day or two. If it was the show's intention, maybe they could have made more of an effort to get that across. I don't need everything spoonfed or spelled out, but obviously I found the injury/ability clash quite jarring.

Pter wrote: »

:D

I'm just glad she is leaving Braavos behind and going home.

LOL, never thought of that Simpsons joke. I did think that I was going to be hit with the one about the 'magic xylophone' though...

duploelabs wrote: »

Perhaps Lady Crane had some flat 7-up?

Touché.

J. Marston · 14-06-2016 03:35PM

Tenger wrote: »

Makes sense. Dany states in last episode that she will ride Drogon but will need 2 more dragon riders ....cue cut away to Jons face (and Tyrion perhaps?)

Someone is going to get Quentyn'ed first.

My guess is Daario.

CMOTDibbler · 14-06-2016 04:01PM

stankratz wrote: »

I did think about that, but there's nothing in Arya's scenes to suggest a passing of time any more significant than a day or two. If it was the show's intention, maybe they could have made more of an effort to get that across. I don't need everything spoonfed or spelled out, but obviously I found the injury/ability clash quite jarring.

I do see your point, but there's quite a bit that happened while Arya was hors de combat. For a start, Lady Crane gave Bianca her comeuppance and it seems that the Waif wasn't looking for Arya since she seemed to think she was dead in the canal. How much time she left before attempting another 'hit' on Lady Crane is hard to say, but she was unlikely to strike whilst her guard was up and was aware of the threat.

The passage of time in GoT has been remarked on specifically by one of the writers in that they can't portray it without a lot of filler dialogue and losing momentum. They just couldn't make the story 'days' line up and so do the best they can by breaking the scenes up to give some semblance of the passage of time. So Arya being found by Lady Crane is separated from her ebing chased by the Waif.

It's not ideal, but I can't see how it could be done without sacrificing momentum and really pissing the viewers off.

intheclouds · 14-06-2016 04:27PM

Even if it was weeks - the injury sustained by Arya would have either killed her or left her extremely weak.

We saw Khal Drogo die from an infected scratch.

Really if they had just showed Arya removing a leather protector plate from her belly after the shanking so that we knew there was some injury but not full on disembowelling such as we saw it might have worked.

But how it went down was very badly put together.

Baggly · 14-06-2016 04:29PM

The blood that came from her stomach was red, not reddish brown. Assume she wasn't disembowelled.

intheclouds · 14-06-2016 04:38PM

Pter wrote: »

The blood that came from her stomach was red, not reddish brown. Assume she wasn't disembowelled.

Do you really have to be so pedantic or do I simply need to spell things out so extensively that there can be no confusion?

Arya Stark had a 6 inch or so knife repeatedly stabbed into her stomach and twisted. That level of stabbing will leave someone with massive internal injury and bleeding (and maybe disembowel them). It will slice up the intestines, possibly organ damage, and possibly bowel damage. Thats saying nothing about the damage to her core muscles.

You dont leap up and have a T-1000 fight through city streets with lots of jumping, acrobatic leaping about, tumbling through vegetables etc after an injury like that regardless of if the injury happened a few days or a few weeks ago.

On top of the injury itself, infection would have killed her, especially after her immersion in dirty water.

CMOTDibbler · 14-06-2016 04:43PM

intheclouds wrote: »

Do you really have to be so pedantic or do I simply need to spell things out so extensively that there can be no confusion?

Arya Stark had a 6 inch or so knife repeatedly stabbed into her stomach and twisted. That level of stabbing will leave someone with massive internal injury and bleeding (and maybe disembowel them). It will slice up the intestines, possibly organ damage, and possibly bowel damage. Thats saying nothing about the damage to her core muscles.

You dont leap up and have a T-1000 fight through city streets with lots of jumping, acrobatic leaping about, tumbling through vegetables etc after an injury like that regardless of if the injury happened a few days or a few weeks ago.

On top of the injury itself, infection would have killed her, especially after her immersion in dirty water.

It looked like a stiletto to me and not much more than four inches, if even that.

Not saying you're wrong about the possible damage, but it's also possible that it missed anything vital.

Baggly · 14-06-2016 04:45PM

intheclouds wrote: »

Do you really have to be so pedantic or do I simply need to spell things out so extensively that there can be no confusion?

Arya Stark had a 6 inch or so knife repeatedly stabbed into her stomach and twisted. That level of stabbing will leave someone with massive internal injury and bleeding (and maybe disembowel them). It will slice up the intestines, possibly organ damage, and possibly bowel damage. Thats saying nothing about the damage to her core muscles.

You dont leap up and have a T-1000 fight through city streets with lots of jumping, acrobatic leaping about, tumbling through vegetables etc after an injury like that regardless of if the injury happened a few days or a few weeks ago.

On top of the injury itself, infection would have killed her, especially after her immersion in dirty water.

It's a fictional show that features people being revived from the dead, dragons and magic.

To be honest, in my opinion, complaining that the show dont include details such as the removal of a stomach plate/a montage for recovery time/extensive surgery is demanding pedantry of the show. Which, as has been said, would kill momentum. The Arya story in Braavos was already dragging on and on. I'm glad it was kept as short as possible in it's wrapup.

My point with my previous comment was, if you want to overlook the stomach injury, you can find a way to do so. If you don't, you will dwell on it. You are free to do either, of course.

Yes, T1000 chases are unlikely, but given the choice between certain death or the pain endured during trying to get away, which would you choose in the same circumstance.

She perhaps should have been laid out for longer, but as i said before, they moved things along, so let's not dwell on the factual inconsistencies, given that at any moment a dragon or resurrecting priestess of fire could pop by and do something equally as fantastic, to general acclaim.

intheclouds · 14-06-2016 04:46PM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

It looked like a stiletto to me and not much more than four inches, if even that.

Not saying you're wrong about the possible damage, but it's also possible that it missed anything vital.

You think a girl as small and skinny as Arya Stark has nothing vital 4 inches in?

She pushed it when she stabbed so it may have gone back even further than its length.

intheclouds · 14-06-2016 04:48PM

Pter wrote: »

It's a fictional show that features people being revived from the dead, dragons and magic.

Yes but the depiction of people and injury has always been "normal" and not superhuman.

Of course there is magic and dragons but it has to stay consistent within its universe.

It would have been a matter of seconds to show something to explain how she survived (as I said, pulling out a protective plate after the stabbing or something).

J. Marston · 14-06-2016 04:52PM

The infection stuff is nonsense. That can be easily explained/cured by whatever Lady Crane gave her. Boiling wine is the cure-all treatment in the ASOIAF world, isnt it?

The actual physical injury is where the immersion is broken. Adrenaline will only get you so far.

CMOTDibbler · 14-06-2016 04:53PM

intheclouds wrote: »

You think a girl as small and skinny as Arya Stark has nothing vital 4 inches in?

She pushed it when she stabbed so it may have gone back even further than its length.

I'm saying that it's possible that a stiletto could miss a vital organ. It's not unheard of and it's certainly not impossible. The movie industry has people getting shot and running around carrying bullet wounds all the time. Nobody seems to bat an eyelid despite the fact that a bullet wound is far more serious than a knife wound due to the trauma and shock the speeding bullet imparts on the surrounding tissue and organs.

It's not worth getting worked up about imo.

Baggly · 14-06-2016 04:53PM

intheclouds wrote: »

Yes but the depiction of people and injury has always been "normal" and not superhuman.

Of course there is magic and dragons but it has to stay consistent within its universe.

It would have been a matter of seconds to show something to explain how she survived (as I said, pulling out a protective plate after the stabbing or something).

I very much doubt a protective plate would have been widely accepted as a method to stop the stabbing.

It's gonna be nothing was hit or magic or Arya is just very tough, and the implications of her injury will stay with her beyond this episode (i.e. she ran despite the injury and severe pain). If you can't accept that, then it must be really hard to sit through most movies and TV shows where people get hurt.

I really don't think this point warrants the level of attention it's getting. So much other great things happened in the episode.

TonyCliftonEsq · 14-06-2016 04:55PM

I can't believe the lengths people are going to in an attempt to defend what is just blatantly bad writing.

Arya should be dead and there is enough internal evidence to support this in terms of how other characters have died from far lesser injuries.

Her entire Braavos storyline has been a major let down in terms of character development. And Arya's isn't the only storyline that has been a let down like this.

This series is suffering majorly now that it is ahead of the books.

I'd rather they just stop the series now and announce they will wrap it up in a feature length movie once the books come to an end or something.

intheclouds · 14-06-2016 04:55PM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I'm saying that it's possible that a stiletto could miss a vital organ. It's not unheard of and it's certainly not impossible. The movie industry has people getting shot and running around carrying bullet wounds all the time. Nobody seems to bat an eyelid despite the fact that a bullet wound is far more serious than a knife wound due to the trauma and shock the speeding bullet imparts on the surrounding tissue nad organs.

It's not worth getting worked up about imo.

But she stabbed her numerous times!

I agree, its not worth getting worked up over, I personally just found that the show did not engage my suspension of disbelief for that entire sequence.

CMOTDibbler · 14-06-2016 04:57PM

intheclouds wrote: »

But she stabbed her numerous times!

I agree, its not worth getting worked up over, I personally just found that the show did not engage my suspension of disbelief for that entire sequence.

Twice. She stabbed her twice as well as slashing once at her abdomen. It wasn't clear if that slash actually cut more than her clothes but there was no blood evident until after she was stabbed, so I'm going to go with the slash didn't make contact.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 14-06-2016 05:03PM

Pter wrote: »

I very much doubt a protective plate would have been widely accepted as a method to stop the stabbing.

It's gonna be nothing was hit or magic or Arya is just very tough, and the implications of her injury will stay with her beyond this episode (i.e. she ran despite the injury and severe pain). If you can't accept that, then it must be really hard to sit through most movies and TV shows where people get hurt.

I really don't think this point warrants the level of attention it's getting. So much other great things happened in the episode.

It's symbolic of how far the show has moved from what made people love it in the first place though. The first season was a show set in a fantasy world, where realistic things happened to realistic people, meaning that adults could get satisfyingly immersed in a fantasy world. No plot armour for anyone, no deus ex machinas, no fairness even. Some of the best writing, direction and production design that's ever been on TV, for my money.

And now here we have Arya, a main player, a character notable for her caution and intelligence, acting in a way that makes no sense for her to act, in order to set up a cheap cliff-hanger that in the next episode turns out to have served no function at all, might as well never have happened. As well as it making no sense at all that she could a) survive immersing an open wound in shít water and b) parkour her ass off shortly afterwards. That's not consistent with the show, though it is consistent with other, lesser TV shows and films. When standards drop so blatantly like that it's a very valid criticism.

wp_rathead · 14-06-2016 05:08PM

We've seen infections be a big deal in the GoT universe, Khal Drogo, Robb's wife cuts of the soilders foot as starting to rot, Robert Barothen dies of infected bore wound, Hound is bitten and gets infected and Ayra has to disinfect
The fact Ayra gets stabbed and jumps into water that must be unsanitary and gets no infection is very eyebrow raising - i mean in that very episode we see The Hound piss into a river so you can imagine there is no sewage treatment in Bravos..

wp_rathead · 14-06-2016 05:09PM

But anyways, the Battle of Meeren just started lads!!! Really looking forward to this! Hon Yara!!

Baggly · 14-06-2016 05:10PM

Galilea Putrid Show-off wrote: »

It's symbolic of how far the show has moved from what made people love it in the first place though. The first season was a show set in a fantasy world, where realistic things happened to realistic people, meaning that adults could get satisfyingly immersed in a fantasy world. No plot armour for anyone, no deus ex machinas, no fairness even. Some of the best writing, direction and production design that's ever been on TV, for my money.

And now here we have Arya, a main player, a character notable for her caution and intelligence, acting in a way that makes no sense for her to act, in order to set up a cheap cliff-hanger that in the next episode turns out to have served no function at all, might as well never have happened. As well as it making no sense at all that she could a) survive immersing an open wound in shít water and b) parkour her ass off shortly afterwards. That's not consistent with the show, though it is consistent with other, lesser TV shows and films. When standards drop so blatantly like that it's a very valid criticism.

I can understand that, but, in a world setting that is getting increasingly more chaotic and.....is magically active the word.....the show will require more and more suspension of belief. Gods are resurrecting people, some with grave injuries (Beric)....and who is to say something similar didnt happen here. The whole show was heralded in by the first scene by featured zombies as a show in which the normal people would soon be surrounded by the abnormal.

I don't worry about the nuts and bolts of everything that happens on the show, but, as i have said, if you want to, go for it.

It's still a great show, imo.

CMOTDibbler · 14-06-2016 05:14PM

wp_rathead wrote: »

We've seen infections be a big deal in the GoT universe, Khal Drogo, Robb's wife cuts of the soilders foot as starting to rot, Robert Barothen dies of infected bore wound, Hound is bitten and gets infected and Ayra has to disinfect
The fact Ayra gets stabbed and jumps into water that must be unsanitary and gets no infection is very eyebrow raising - i mean in that very episode we see The Hound piss into a river so you can imagine there is no sewage treatment in Bravos..

There are lots of wounds like that around here and nobody dies

All of the above happened without proper and immediate treatment though. Robert's boar wound happened whilst hunting and it took them some time to get him back to 'civilisation' by which time infection had set in. The hound survived his bite although he took a lot of time before it became evident that he was infected. Likewise Khal Drogo stopped having his wound seen to properly (being a real man) and that's what killed him.

intheclouds · 14-06-2016 05:19PM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

There are lots of wounds like that around here and nobody dies

All of the above happened without proper and immediate treatment though. Robert's boar wound happened whilst hunting and it took them some time to get him back to 'civilisation' by which time infection had set in. The hound survived his bite although he took a lot of time before it became evident that he was infected. Likewise Khal Drogo stopped having his wound seen to properly (being a real man) and that's what killed him.

And Arya didnt have her wound seen to at all for some time (which is what was said earlier as there was time for Lady Crane to do away with the sansa actress etc...). So by your logic above she should definitely be dead.

J. Marston · 14-06-2016 05:21PM

The director's explanation (excuse) for Arya's dopiness...

"We had to set up a situation where it was plausible that a warrior like Arya messes up," Mylod explained. "She allowed herself a moment [of reflection]- and this is where you have to remember that despite what an extraordinary warrior she is, and all the hell and back that she's been through that she's still such a young woman, and is vulnerable and flawed like every wonderful character in the show and every human being on earth."

"When she stops to look over the city and has a that moment of reflection ... and she looks towards the great statue in the harbor, she just drops her guard for a moment in a very human way and it almost costs her her life," Mylod said. "And I'm sure that Arya will be furious at herself for that."

"One of the many things our writers are so great at is allowing our characters to be flawed," he explained. "Nobody is perfect, we all make mistakes all the time, and Arya nearly pays dearly for it. Thankfully her determination to survive is such that she is able to come through it. But it is a really close call."

"To be involved in something that causes that much of a conversation is really a genuine privilege," Mylod said. "It really is quite extraordinary to be involved in something that causes so much fervor. It's just wonderful."

http://www.techinsider.io/game-of-thrones-director-explains-arya-braavos-scene-2016-6

The last line is a pretty telling reason for why Arya got stabbed. Director likes attention and threw in a needless shock moment to get talked about.

jebidiah · 14-06-2016 05:32PM

Lads, its grand, sure yer wan the actress used to stab her fellas and sew them back up. Arya was never in any danger, because she fortunately met that lady before.

It's simple to get your head around. Even a dummy could understand it.

Or write it.

****ing childsplay.

Season 6 Episode 8 "No One" - "Book readers"

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