Season 6 Episode 8 "No One" - "Book readers"

Sleepy

Bull**** excuse for bull**** writing.

Honestly, when r/gameofthrones is coming up with better storylines, it's time to sack the head writer.

CMOTDibbler

intheclouds wrote: »

And Arya didnt have her wound seen to at all for some time (which is what was said earlier as there was time for Lady Crane to do away with the sansa actress etc...). So by your logic above she should definitely be dead.

Ah come on! There were two Lady Crane scenes; the first where she found her in her changing room, quite obviously the same day it happened and the later scene after she'd patched her up.

Many days could have passed between the two, we don't know. There's a big difference between being seen the same day as the wound was suffered and what happened in the other examples.

nicki11

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I'm saying that it's possible that a stiletto could miss a vital organ. It's not unheard of and it's certainly not impossible. The movie industry has people getting shot and running around carrying bullet wounds all the time. Nobody seems to bat an eyelid despite the fact that a bullet wound is far more serious than a knife wound due to the trauma and shock the speeding bullet imparts on the surrounding tissue and organs.

It's not worth getting worked up about imo.

If it missed something vital (or the bowel wasn't perforated) she would be less likely to die. infection is possible but takes a while to set in and if she found Lady Crane quickly enough she could clear out the would. The river there empties directly into the bay and it looks pretty clean and only certain canals/rivers would be used for waste. As a healthy girl, with adequate medical attention she could live. Running is a separate issue that could be explained by time passing the second fall likely pulled her stitches - limping and wound holding- that would slow her down but if it was outer (not inner) stitches not too serious as long as its patched up again, blood loss would be the main danger.

Drogo refused treatment until the infection got bad and Miri purposely screwed over Dany on that front. Robert was gored by a bull, a large wound, perforating his bowel, easily leading to infection, even today. They could only do so much, especially as his own bowel contents would have caused infection, which if treated by a surgeon and given antibiotics, he probably still would have died. The two stab wounds by a thin blade could have done minimal damage especially as it was low on her left side likely missing the bulk of her bowels and (other then them) her other organs. Prompt treatment and rest and she would live. We have no idea how long she was out so could be partially healed reducing likeliness of further organ damage from parkour though her stitches ripping could still lead to blood loss. Its not too unbelievable when compared to real life examples like that man who was stabbed 66 times or all the people who have survived gunshot wounds which are automatically worse. Replace the weapon of injury with a gun and a gun shot wound to the arm or leg is deadly and yet John Mac Lane and various others still lived on to have sequels.

CMOTDibbler

Good insight here into how they set up some of the scenes in Episodes 7 and 8.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL8DBHIJoLE

Interesting hearing Maisie Williams use the Terminator analogy for the Waif and confirming that she lured her to where she had stashed Needle. Did a few of the stunts herself too. :cool:

Graham_B18C

Christ there's a lot of complaining about Arya. Some of the rants must have taken an hour to write. Why don't those pepole complain about how unrealistic it was when the red woman brought Jon Snow back? Or that a bit of fire and magic made dragon eggs hatch? I didn't even think about Arya's injuries until I looked at this thread, I just assumed she had been training with a bunch of mad magic assassin's the last while so she's not exactly normal. We also don't know how long she was in that bed recovering for.

Why is it on to leave your brain at the door for some parts but not others? Get a grip lads

Nerdlingr

Worst episode in a long time. All the good work done by the hound, bronn and edmure killed off by the implausible arya chase scene, more filler conversations between mereens three stooges and the off screen deaths of the blackfish and the waif. Couldn't give a shyte about dany walking in to save the day anymore...yawn.

Sleepy

The problems we have with how Arya's story-line worked here are two-fold:

1. Arya's surviving the injuries she sustained breaks the internal consistency of the show. A young girl has survived injuries that have previously killed grown warriors. The parkour scenes absolutely stank of a stunt director wanting to include the "in" thing when logically, the character wasn't in any kind of shape to carry them out. Ever seen the shape that any good practitioners are in? They're superb athletes in great physical shape. A reasonably fit teenage girl with serious internal injuries physically wouldn't be up to it.

2. Arya strutting around Bravos last week (even using Tyrion's "rich man" walk") and not recognising the Waif instantly breaks character for her. She knew how to hide amongst the street urchins of a large back in Season 1, ffs. She has incredible natural survival instincts and her behaviour last week was wildly at odds with that: it was the sort of thing we'd expect to see from Sansa. The writers betrayed her character for the sake of the inclusion of a "shock" Oz-style shanking and the director made sure to show the knife buried to the hilt and twisted. I include the quotes on the word shock because absolutely nobody watching ever believed she was in serious danger. It was soap-opera stuff.

Any of the regulars on this forum would know I'm not someone who tears the show to bits. I absolutely adore both the books and the series but I can still recognise when they've ****ed up. Dorne was dire but it had the excuse of having clearly been shot by the B unit due to extremely constrained time limits on the location shoot (though that certainly doesn't excuse the writing or casting).

The quality of the writing has been on the decline for the last two seasons at this stage. It's simply not up to the standard they set themselves in the earlier seasons. Sure, they had easier books to work from up until Season 3 but they even managed some high quality original scenes then (Robert and Cersei's heart-to-heart in Season 1, Arya's scenes with Tywin in Harrenhall etc.). Yes, the storyline expanded making it harder to keep up with everyone but that doesn't excuse some of the awful dialogue. Nothing does in a production of this scale with all the resources of HBO invested in their flagship show.

tommy2bad

That was bloody awful.
First Arya, so it turns out she has spent the last 2 seasons in Bravos for no reason other than to turn around and go home? The only thing she learned their being how to see in the dark? It's the laziest writing I'v seen since Dorn which basically took a plotline that could have been a show in itself and turned it into the Kardishians with swords.
Obvious now the attack on Arya last week was deliberately overdone to hype an audience in the manner of cliffhangers as they had no intention of any other ending but Arya surviving.
The siege looked super and the scenes between Jamie and Edmure worked well, but the resolution to the siege was lackluster to say the least. Blackfish totaly wasted.
The whole time wasting with Tyrion I cant complain about, it showed how lost for direction they were and how time killing was their only option. Thats fair enough if a bit boring.
The only event which promised something to come was Cercies inquiry about 'rumours'. Rumours of wildfire? Tyrion? Dragons?
This season is becoming a game of checklisting. Moving characters around to where they want them for a final season. Perhaps they lacked the time to do it justice in which case they should have begged borrowed or stolen more time. This feels off compared to the books. Then again the next book could be just as bad, we haven't seen it yet.

Witcher

I think the problems have been well aired at this stage...what's done is done. Move on...it's getting like the Westeros.org forums aound here with the whining.

intheclouds

Graham_B18C wrote: »

Christ there's a lot of complaining about Arya. Some of the rants must have taken an hour to write. Why don't those pepole complain about how unrealistic it was when the red woman brought Jon Snow back? Or that a bit of fire and magic made dragon eggs hatch?

Because those things don't go against the consistency of the universe that has been created.

CMOTDibbler

Strider wrote: »

I think the problems have been well aired at this stage...what's done is done. Move on...it's getting like the Westeros.org forums aound here with the whining.

That's a bit unfair. Nothing could be that whiney

Graham_B18C

Graham_B18C wrote: »

Christ there's a lot of complaining about Arya. Some of the rants must have taken an hour to write. Why don't those pepole complain about how unrealistic it was when the red woman brought Jon Snow back? Or that a bit of fire and magic made dragon eggs hatch? I didn't even think about Arya's injuries until I looked at this thread, I just assumed she had been training with a bunch of mad magic assassin's the last while so she's not exactly normal. We also don't know how long she was in that bed recovering for.

Why is it on to leave your brain at the door for some parts but not others? Get a grip lads

Some of us addressed that in our rants.

Paddy Cow

EagererBeaver wrote: »

You never see Syrio killed. Don't think Trant mentions him subsequently either.

I remember someone saying a few years ago that Martin was surprised with all the fan theories that Syrio was alive because as far as he was concerned Syrio was toast. I don't have a link for this and I'm not googling but even as a book reader it was obvious to me that Syrio with his wooden practice sword couldn't win against knights with real swords. Even the Hound who claimed that any boy whore with a sword could kill two Meryn Trants told Arya that Syrio was dead and Meryn was alive, because Meryn had armour and a big f*ching sword.

TonyCliftonEsq wrote: »

I can't believe the lengths people are going to in an attempt to defend what is just blatantly bad writing.

Arya should be dead and there is enough internal evidence to support this in terms of how other characters have died from far lesser injuries.

The Arya/Waif story line would've been a lot more realistic/badass if they

• had Arya draw attention to herself with the scene where she buys passage to Westeros
  
• the old woman/waif approaches her on the canal but before the waif knifes her, Arya headbutts her and turns around pulling off her face and then jumps in the canal
  
• the waif is enraged and chases Arya and we get a load of scenes where Arya has to jump out windows, falls down stairs and gets hurt in the process, even leaving blood trails if they wanted to include that
  
• the end of the chase if the waif thinking she has cornered Arya who is hurt so the waif thinks she will be as easy mark

Arya has been a pretty cool character from season 1 and she held her own with Tywin and the Hound and while her story was a bit boring last season, this season they have done damage to her. The parkour she was doing was just ridiculous with the amount of stabbing she got. Plus I felt it was a little too similar to what happened to Jon. "Oh look, a Stark got stabbed in the guts but don't worry, they'll be fine".

Her showdown with the waif should've been much better and is my biggest disappointment so far in the series.

I can understand Jaqen letting her go. The whole time she was in the House of B&W, they kept saying to her to say her name and she could go home. Jaqen knew when he sent the waif that the Gods would be getting at least one name and he seemed happy that it was Arya.

JRant

What is the point of the Mereen storyline. I mean, seriously, we've had 8 episodes of filler and "I am mother of dragons" bs only to end up exactly where we started, back fighting the slavers.

That Dany one couldn't empty a boot full of water if the instructions were on the heel yet we have to somehow believe she will be the saviour of Westeros.

6 seasons, 3 dragons and 2 full armies later we still have to listen to her boring speeches and complete lack of any sensible decision making. She needs to shït or get off the pot.

Imagine how more interesting the dragons would be if they were actually doing something in Westeros. Burning Lanisters on the way to toasting a few White Walkers

Nermal

The religions of the 'old gods', 'the seven' and 'the lord of light' make some sort of internal sense, are recognisable and are just very well drawn. The 'many-faced god' stuff stands out as gibberish in comparison.

intheclouds

Nermal wrote: »

The religions of the 'old gods', 'the seven' and 'the lord of light' make some sort of internal sense, are recognisable and are just very well drawn. The 'many-faced god' stuff stands out as gibberish in comparison.

I always thought the many faced god was the sort of all encompassing god - the one whose religion said "it doesnt matter if you call him god or yahweh or allah or shiva" - it is the same god being called different names and with different faces for different people. Which is a much more consistent view (imo) than the ones who say "mine is the only god".

Tenger

JRant wrote: »

What is the point of the Mereen storyline. I mean, seriously, we've had 8 episodes of filler and "I am mother of dragons" BS only to end up exactly where we started, back fighting the slavers.

That Dany one couldn't empty a boot full of water if the instructions were on the heel yet we have to somehow believe she will be the saviour of Westeros. ......

That's pretty much my feeling on the book version too

CMOTDibbler

Tenger wrote: »

That's pretty much my feeling on the book version too

It's a learning experience for her. Is that not obvious?

She tried to be the wise ruler and it didn't work out for her. By the look of it, those days are now behind her and she's now the conquering queen.

Tenger

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

It's a learning experience for her. Is that not obvious?

She tried to be the wise ruler and it didn't work out for her. By the look of it, those days are now behind her and she's now the conquering queen.

I get the learning experience, was just mentioning how I didnt like those chapters in the books. TV series is a lot more truncated, which is good. (from my pov in this regard!)

EagererBeaver

Nermal wrote: »

The religions of the 'old gods', 'the seven' and 'the lord of light' make some sort of internal sense, are recognisable and are just very well drawn. The 'many-faced god' stuff stands out as gibberish in comparison.

That's because it's not really a religion or a God - the many faced God is simply death.

JRant

Tenger wrote: »

I get the learning experience, was just mentioning how I didnt like those chapters in the books. TV series is a lot more truncated, which is good. (from my pov in this regard!)

Fully agree, it was soooooo boring in the books and it really is not much better on tv.

tommy2bad

The problem for Dany is she got parked in Merieene while the rest of the westorios stuff caught up. GRRM used this to try to show that rulling isnt about just having power, you need to know how to compromise too. It could have been done in a few chapters but untill the rest of the pieces were in place she couldnt land in Westorios.

Same seems to have happened Arya in the TV show, not sure it will play out as obviously pointless an excursion in the books, theirs other stuff she can be part of their. Stuff left out of the TV show.

Anyway it is what it is. Now we have Arya headed back to Westorios, Dany about to acquire some ships and the slavers adding some incentive to move on, Jon about to set himself up as king in the north again and Cercie about to go mad king in King's landing. Once the current King is dead and I see no other option for the poor kid, the throne is up for grabs again which will bring Dorn, the Tyrells and all the other houses back into the game. Meanwhile winter is coming, old blue eyes is heading out on tour.
All this is common to both the books and the TV show. The major difference is the TV show has claimed it will resolve it all in two short seasons. GRRM hasn't said when the next book will be out (could that be the rumour Cercie was asking about?) or if it's the last in the run.

OhHiMark

tommy2bad wrote: »

The problem for Dany is she got parked in Merieene while the rest of the westorios stuff caught up. GRRM used this to try to show that rulling isnt about just having power, you need to know how to compromise too. It could have been done in a few chapters but untill the rest of the pieces were in place she couldnt land in Westorios.

Same seems to have happened Arya in the TV show, not sure it will play out as obviously pointless an excursion in the books, theirs other stuff she can be part of their. Stuff left out of the TV show.

Anyway it is what it is. Now we have Arya headed back to Westorios, Dany about to acquire some ships and the slavers adding some incentive to move on, Jon about to set himself up as king in the north again and Cercie about to go mad king in King's landing. Once the current King is dead and I see no other option for the poor kid, the throne is up for grabs again which will bring Dorn, the Tyrells and all the other houses back into the game. Meanwhile winter is coming, old blue eyes is heading out on tour.
All this is common to both the books and the TV show. The major difference is the TV show has claimed it will resolve it all in two short seasons. GRRM hasn't said when the next book will be out (could that be the rumour Cercie was asking about?) or if it's the last in the run.

There are two more books. There have always been seven books planned.

EagererBeaver

Rubbish, it was originally meant to be a trilogy!

OhHiMark

Well then there have been 7 books planned for a good few years.

Dave_The_Sheep

Tyrion's scenes were quite different to how they've portrayed Tyrion in the show to this point. All this episode was for him was Tyrion strolling around drinking wine and going "look at me, I am great, the city is working perfectly, my idea saved the day, I am great". It was so painfully obvious something was going to go wrong.

The times where he's had a whiff of power before, he wasn't strutting around full of it. He was a little grim (when sending Myrcella off to Dorne, for example, or at the Blackwater) and while he did show some satisfaction at outwitting/using Varys/Littlefinger, it was nothing compared to this.

I hope this isn't some cheap setup to lead into Tyrion snuffing it for shock value. They've done **** all with him the last season or so.

rawn

Dave_The_Sheep wrote:

The times where he's had a whiff of power before, he wasn't strutting around full of it. He was a little grim (when sending Myrcella off to Dorne, for example, or at the Blackwater) and while he did show some satisfaction at outwitting/using Varys/Littlefinger, it was nothing compared to this.

Does he know about Myrcella yet? That will kill him

Dave_The_Sheep

You'd think Varys at least would have heard. Whether he told Tyrion or not, no idea.

EagererBeaver

OhHiMark wrote: »

Well then there have been 7 books planned for a good few years.

Martin has also previously hinted than an 8th book might be required.

Conall Cernach

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Martin has also previously hinted than an 8th book might be required.

Book 7: Danaerys decides that she need 1001 ships before she can set sail.
Book 8: The Greyjoys go on holiday to Dorne.