House Alarms - HELP!

fred funk }{

lomb wrote:

yeah the next time the panel needs changing i will buy a new aritech panel with a default code and change it. easy to install if the wires are there.

can i ask if i physically removed my panel and brought it down to aritech in tallaght could they default it for me to the factory settings for a fee? how much would they charge? thanks

No they will not default the panel, They wont entertain you at all.

Lex Luther: A walk test will not tell u if a sensor is faulty or not. Its only good for telling u if the sensor is still connected to the system. The only way of throughly testing sesors/contacts is with a meter. You seem to have the basic cop-on about alarms so your an exception to the rule because your average joe would only mess the programming up.

I understand your point regarding the customer have complete control over the alarm because the payed for it, All mobile phones are locked with codes also and they dont give out the codes to easy. They are locked to protect the programming of the phone/alarm and also to insure future work on that system.
When i do my own work i dont use engineer reset because it can be a pain in the arse with silly call backs. I do lock all my panels though.

K1

Lex Luthor wrote:

or when you want to do a walk test.

the guy who installed my alarm, changed the eng code to one for me which I could remember. That way I can go in and do a walk test every year and check all the sensors.
I also added a shock sensor to a zone recently and needed to change the shock attributes for Gross & Pulse and I could do that also.
As far as I'm concerned, if you bough the alarm, then the code shoudl be yours. Definately change from teh default one when it goes in, but make sure you get the new one.

lex going by your spelling I wouldn't let you use a calculator let alone programme an alarm system!!!
PS what are you going to tell your insurance company if you are ever broken into & the look for the engineer reports & service records???( it has happened believe it or not!)

lomb

K1 wrote:

lex going by your spelling I wouldn't let you use a calculator let alone programme an alarm system!!!
PS what are you going to tell your insurance company if you are ever broken into & the look for the engineer reports & service records???( it has happened believe it or not!)

u make them up and tell them u are competent to do it.

K1

lomb wrote:

yeah the next time the panel needs changing i will buy a new aritech panel with a default code and change it. easy to install if the wires are there.

can i ask if i physically removed my panel and brought it down to aritech in tallaght could they default it for me to the factory settings for a fee? how much would they charge? thanks

lomb ,Aritech are the manufacturers not the suppliers In most cases .with the exception of a few alarm companys. they only deal with wholesalers even most the alarm companys have to return thier faulty goods to the supplier the purchased from and not direct to aritech.. eg if you car breaks down you go to the garage not to Toyota etc..

K1

lomb wrote:

u make them up and tell them u are competent to do it.

when the neighbours complain about alarms going off all day and night it's usually the fault of lads like you. If alarm systems are so simple why do insurance companys , The NSAI & the Guards insist on standards being adhered to??

lomb

K1 wrote:

when the neighbours complain about alarms going off all day and night it's usually the fault of lads like you. If alarm systems are so simple why do insurance companys , The NSAI & the Guards insist on standards being adhered to??

i have sucessfully maintained my alarm for 7years, replacing sensors as they go bad. this is the main problem with them. the cowboy who wired my alarm put every window on 1 zone, the front door on a different zone, whereas he should have put windows on several zones.

anyway to find a defective sensor, place a voltmeter on resistance test across the sensor inside and knock the window. if the sensor is good the resistance goes up and STRAIGHT back to zero. if its bad it floats and only gradually returns to zero.

when the alarm goes off randomly i check all 25 sensors as the panal is useless and doesnt tell me which zone it is due to the cowboy wiring.

anything else-yes panels fail and unfortunately no one repairs them these days. a new one can be had at a wholesale electrician for about 180 euros
i have found aritech cs series incredibly reliable.
12volt batteries fail in panels and the alarm goes off after a short power cut.

bell boxes also have a battery in them and these fail too.

so u see i am competent to service the alarm. however it is a trade like any other and i dont begrudge any engineer making a living which they deserve, i just rather repair my own alarm, its very satisfying to fix something.

edit- if after checking all the sensors, and replacing the bell box battery and panel battery if these are old the alarm continues to go off randomly i would replace the panel. it isnt rocket science, the aritecs panels come with full instructions

lomb

K1 wrote:

lomb ,Aritech are the manufacturers not the suppliers In most cases .with the exception of a few alarm companys.

maybe so but in the instructions it says that if the engineer code is lost then the only way to reset it is to return the panel to aritec for resetting on the bench so surprising that aritech in tallaght wont even give a customer the time of the day. says alot for customer service, and bear in mind there isnt any harm in them doing it as u are physically taking the panel to them and they are resetting it so no trade secrets are being given out

K1

Lomb if you are as competent as you say fair play to you , you seem to have an idea of the workings. Tell me though why dont you split up the zones to make life easier. Even with 1 x 4 core loop feeding you 25 windows ( that the very min cable that could be used) you could split them up into 3 zones (5 zones on 6 core etc.) that means you would only need to check around 8 sensors insted of 25

lomb

K1 wrote:

Lomb if you are as competent as you say fair play to you , you seem to have an idea of the workings. Tell me though why dont you split up the zones to make life easier. Even with 1 x 4 core loop feeding you 25 windows ( that the very min cable that could be used) you could split them up into 3 zones (5 zones on 6 core etc.) that means you would only need to check around 8 sensors insted of 25

that might be a trick question im not sure my understanding of it was that basically he put all the sensors on one loop and as such that is only wire going into the panel, along with the door wire, the bell box wire, the panick loop and the remote wire.

so how can i rewire say half the sensors onto a different loop without rewiring those sensors. anyway its all done and the wires are hidden as they were put in during construction. its ok anyway i know which sensors go bad, so i always check the obvious ones first. any ones in a humid room with condensation, door vibe sensors as these are subject to a lot of vibration on opening etc, roof window sensors as these are opened and closed alot, basically frequently 'used' sensors

lomb

K1 wrote:

Lomb if you are as competent as you say fair play to you , you seem to have an idea of the workings. Tell me though why dont you split up the zones to make life easier. Even with 1 x 4 core loop feeding you 25 windows ( that the very min cable that could be used) you could split them up into 3 zones (5 zones on 6 core etc.) that means you would only need to check around 8 sensors insted of 25

are u saying i take the existing 4 loop cable and forget about the tamper system on 2 of those wires and use the other 2 wires on a different zone. i suppose i could do that but i mite need the engineer code to disable the tamper system or fiddle in the panel most probably and dummy short the tamper system so it appears as a closed loop.
still a bit of work, its easier just checking sensors, i have a bad one every 6 months or so (house 14 years old) and i buy my sensors in 3's so alway have one handy if 1 needs to be replaced.

K1

lomb wrote:

are u saying i take the existing 4 loop cable and forget about the tamper system on 2 of those wires and use the other 2 wires on a different zone. i suppose i could do that but i mite need the engineer code to disable the tamper system or fiddle in the panel most probably and dummy short the tamper system so it appears as a closed loop.
still a bit of work, its easier just checking sensors, i have a bad one every 6 months or so (house 14 years old) and i buy my sensors in 3's so alway have one handy if 1 needs to be replaced.

you dont need to loose the tamper and you dont just get 2 zones, you can get 3 zones on a 4 core cable using duel eol resistors & a common negitive for all 3 zones, If the loop is wired with 6 core you could return 5 seperate zones to the panel using this configuration....

K1

Redshift wrote:

No Prob M8 if you need any help at all with your alarm PM me and I will try to sort you out, it really pisses me off the way the industry cowboys treat customers, gives us all a bad name. I have never in all the years I have installed alarms enabled the engineer lock on a system which at the end of the day belongs to the customer it's like sim locking a mobile phone which I also hate.
BTW to the origional poster if your alarm is engineer locked you will have to obtain the code or return the system to the manufacturer for reprogramming
there is no way to bypass an engineer lock also incase any of you are wondering your alarms engineer code is not able to unset your alarm further more when your alarm is set access to the engineer menu is denied by all systems that are installed in Ireland at the moment.

You say you are an engineer with a large company, By not locking the panels you are compromising you customers security by leaving it vunerable. So what you are saying is that when you leave a jobyou are fully aware that thier system can be bypassed by any decent burgler whiten a minute or less. You are INCOMPETENT and should not be allowed to fit a plug let alone a security system. There is no way it is safe to leave any panel without an engineer lock, the methods of resetting panels is too freely available on any of the manufacturers web sites.. (PS a good engineer is able to get into a locked alarm panel,(this requires a decent knowledge of the control panel itself, so I am not surprised you dont know how to do it) You said you never lock a panel is this your decision of your companys.?? If its the companys I think you shold name your company so as your customers can get in a competent engineer to make sure their system is secure..ITS LADS LIKE YOU!! WHO GIVE THE INDUSTRY A BAD NAME

fred funk }{

lomb wrote:

are u saying i take the existing 4 loop cable and forget about the tamper system on 2 of those wires and use the other 2 wires on a different zone. i suppose i could do that but i mite need the engineer code to disable the tamper system or fiddle in the panel most probably and dummy short the tamper system so it appears as a closed loop.
still a bit of work, its easier just checking sensors, i have a bad one every 6 months or so (house 14 years old) and i buy my sensors in 3's so alway have one handy if 1 needs to be replaced.

25 sensors on one zone! sorry i just noticed that now, Mate you have to sort that out, If you cant manage to bring them back on single cables at least split them up the best you can, Its a recipe for many problems.
How often does your alarm false alarm?...be honest
Ideally every sensor should have its own zone but thats not practical domestically.

Redshift

K1 wrote:

You say you are an engineer with a large company, By not locking the panels you are compromising you customers security by leaving it vunerable. So what you are saying is that when you leave a jobyou are fully aware that thier system can be bypassed by any decent burgler whiten a minute or less. You are INCOMPETENT and should not be allowed to fit a plug let alone a security system. There is no way it is safe to leave any panel without an engineer lock, the methods of resetting panels is too freely available on any of the manufacturers web sites.. (PS a good engineer is able to get into a locked alarm panel,(this requires a decent knowledge of the control panel itself, so I am not surprised you dont know how to do it) You said you never lock a panel is this your decision of your companys.?? If its the companys I think you shold name your company so as your customers can get in a competent engineer to make sure their system is secure..ITS LADS LIKE YOU!! WHO GIVE THE INDUSTRY A BAD NAME

Jeez did you get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning??
I find you to be a presumptuous idiot but I will humour you with a reply in any case.

1, Did you ever think about the fact that if a burglar gets access to the control panel that an engineer lock is not going to stop him from disabling the system. That’s why I install the control panel in a secure location so at the very least the digi will have time to fire in if the intruder targets the panel
Besides if they have the technical knowledge you suppose they might then it's likely they will know some of the quicker ways of silencing an alarm. At the end of the day alarms are a deterrent and nothing more they are not infallible or immune to being tampered with / bypassed regardless of the engineer lock status.

2, I have worked for a few companies over the 10 years I am doing this and none of them locked their panels, (Policy not my choice in case your interested) The company I am currently with does alot of take overs from other companies big and small and I have found very few of those to be locked infact it's usually only small outfits with a dubious quality of workmanship who do it, perhaps it's the only way they can hold onto their customers.

3, as I said earlier you are a presumptuous idiot to come on here and start flaming someone you don't know. You have no idea who I am or of my level of competence.

4, what do you think of the larger systems like Aplex and 3GS which is what I do mostly. These systems are good enough for banks and high security applications like that and yet they don't even have an engineer lock facility....
Again it's not really a problem because a competent engineer will ensure that panel itself is in a secure location.

Anyway go on back to your little six zone panels and enjoy life safe in the knowlege that you are more competant than nearly every other installer in the country, you really are great and I'm sure your customers think so too since you can force their loyalty.

Edit: You might be interested in this article Article: How do you justify this engineer lock-out?

Particularly this Quote :

The facility allows unscrupulous installers to retain future work by an illegal method which they are and will continue to get away with.

lomb

Silver Knight wrote:

How often does your alarm false alarm?...be honest
Ideally every sensor should have its own zone but thats not practical domestically.

never unless a sensor goes bad, its very reliable

lomb

K1 wrote:

you dont need to loose the tamper and you dont just get 2 zones, you can get 3 zones on a 4 core cable using duel eol resistors & a common negitive for all 3 zones, If the loop is wired with 6 core you could return 5 seperate zones to the panel using this configuration....

from what u are saying the same line would be carrying several frequencies? nah i think it complicates everything, its only 4 core unfortunately, not 6.
it all works 100% so i will leave it alone

K1

Redshift wrote:

Jeez did you get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning??
I find you to be a presumptuous idiot but I will humour you with a reply in any case.

1, Did you ever think about the fact that if a burglar gets access to the control panel that an engineer lock is not going to stop him from disabling the system. That’s why I install the control panel in a secure location so at the very least the digi will have time to fire in if the intruder targets the panel
Besides if they have the technical knowledge you suppose they might then it's likely they will know some of the quicker ways of silencing an alarm. At the end of the day alarms are a deterrent and nothing more they are not infallible or immune to being tampered with / bypassed regardless of the engineer lock status.

2, I have worked for a few companies over the 10 years I am doing this and none of them locked their panels, (Policy not my choice in case your interested) The company I am currently with does alot of take overs from other companies big and small and I have found very few of those to be locked infact it's usually only small outfits with a dubious quality of workmanship who do it, perhaps it's the only way they can hold onto their customers.

3, as I said earlier you are a presumptuous idiot to come on here and start flaming someone you don't know. You have no idea who I am or of my level of competence.

4, what do you think of the larger systems like Aplex and 3GS which is what I do mostly. These systems are good enough for banks and high security applications like that and yet they don't even have an engineer lock facility....
Again it's not really a problem because a competent engineer will ensure that panel itself is in a secure location.

Anyway go on back to your little six zone panels and enjoy life safe in the knowlege that you are more competant than nearly every other installer in the country, you really are great and I'm sure your customers think so too since you can force their loyalty.

Edit: You might be interested in this article Article: How do you justify this engineer lock-out?

Particularly this Quote :

Red shift this is really typical of the response i normally hear from engineers who just because they work for a big company it makes them important or competent.
Most of these companys dont bother with an engineer lock because of thier lagre turnover of staff (possibly because THEY ARE incompetent),which makes it almost impossible to keep thier codes to themselves. We also spend a lot of our time with take overs, usually because the customer wants thier system brought up to standard.
Answer me this where do you put your control panels that you feel they are so secure?
Even if you feel the panel is in a secure location does it not make sense even to yourself ,to provide that extra line of security of locking the panel?No matter what answers you give the following is undisputable!!
YOU ,OR RATHER YOUR COMPANY, ARE HAPPY TO COMMISSION AND WALK AWAY FROM AN INSTALLATION KNOWING THAT IT CAN BE BYPASSED, If it is not your decision but your companys to leave thier panels unlocked then it is they that are incompetent,but if you feel your installations are so good that you will never need that extra line of security then it is you who are presumtious (Never a good thing in this line of business)
In reply to your question on the Aplex & 3GS systems, We have installed them in a number of locations, but these are usually in, like you said , the likes of banks or large office blocks who have other lines of security to compement the alarm. Also because of the size of these buildings finding the alarm panel would be next to impossible,

K1

lomb wrote:

from what u are saying the same line would be carrying several frequencies? nah i think it complicates everything, its only 4 core unfortunately, not 6.
it all works 100% so i will leave it alone

no really lomb, If you have 3 zones on pairs on side of each of those pairs is a common negetive and can be used to feed all 3 zones therfore only a single strand is needed to return each zone to the panel. If you want a hand let me know you seem to have more cop on than mose here

Lex Luthor

K1 wrote:

lex going by your spelling I wouldn't let you use a calculator let alone programme an alarm system!!!

It's not my spelling, I swear...its this damn keyboard. somebody keeps swapping the keys around.

K1 wrote:

PS what are you going to tell your insurance company if you are ever broken into & the look for the engineer reports & service records???( it has happened believe it or not!)

not too bothered...I may not be a qualified alarm installation engineer, but I have a diploma in electronic engineering which should shut them up. BTW, my insurance policy does not state that I have to have service records.

Also, on the walk test....as far as I can see, if you do a walk test and test every sensor and it sets off teh alarm, that's good enough for me that it's working.
We've had numerous attempts in the last 9 yrs of break-ins here and the alarm (touch wood) has gone off each time. They've tried the usual by banging teh windows first to see if its alarmed.

lomb

K1 wrote:

no really lomb, If you have 3 zones on pairs on side of each of those pairs is a common negetive and can be used to feed all 3 zones therfore only a single strand is needed to return each zone to the panel. If you want a hand let me know you seem to have more cop on than mose here

ahh i c! i understand exactly what u are saying. thanks very much for ur offer but i think il leave it alone as it has worked well for me for many years only needing the panel changes 7 years ago and changing the odd 15 year old sensor every now and then. the guy who was very nice told me that because yer man put so many sensors on the one zone it would b dodgy putting any more sensors onto the same zone (originally wanted to wire up the attick doors in case anyone entered thru the roof but hey its not fort knox so i dont worry to much now!

yeah we had a attempted breakin a few years ago they smashed the glass and took off when the alarm went off, cant trust anyone to keep their mitts off ones belongings any more, people never even used to look their doors :mad:

fred funk }{

Lex Luthor wrote:

It's not my spelling, I swear...its this damn keyboard. somebody keeps swapping the keys around.


not too bothered...I may not be a qualified alarm installation engineer, but I have a diploma in electronic engineering which should shut them up. BTW, my insurance policy does not state that I have to have service records.

Also, on the walk test....as far as I can see, if you do a walk test and test every sensor and it sets off teh alarm, that's good enough for me that it's working.
We've had numerous attempts in the last 9 yrs of break-ins here and the alarm (touch wood) has gone off each time. They've tried the usual by banging teh windows first to see if its alarmed.

Hi Lex,

You might as well be a qualified brick layer, Most insurance companys require the alarm to be certified so unless your a company which works to the standards that be you could be in trouble with your insurance as only a licenced company can issue certs.

Walk test is as useful as tits on a bull!....

1. Get a meter and set to about 200ohm

2. Disconnect zone from panel

3. connect long length of cable to disconnected zone

4. connect meter leads to other end of cable

This way you can walk around testing sensors and being able to look at the meter at the same time.

Redshift

@K1, we're probably never going to agree I probably should point out that I no longer work for the large company I now work for a smaller and longer established company whose management was heavily involved in bringing regulation to the industry all those years ago (They don't lock their panels either)
The simple fact of the matter is if the intruder gets access to the panel it is completely compromised and the hardest thing to silence would be the sab unit and even that only involves moving a single wire from one terminal to another (you know what I mean) Lets be honest any alarm engineer with access to the panel could completely disable any domestic system in a few seconds with just a snips and a terminal and without any codes at all or even powering down the system and all the engineer locks in the world won't prevent it. In short any system can be bypassed give the right technical knowledge and making physical access to the panel as difficult as possible is the best thing you can do for your customer.

As regards to where I would put a panel aside from the fact that I don't install anymore, well it depends on the site I would put it where ever it is hardest to find while still being serviceable to the next engineer and also complying with standards it's a how long is a piece of string question.

Any company I have ever worked for has never locked panels and most companies and installers in general don't because it amounts to sharp practice. The installer lock was not designed as a security feature it is to prevent system takeovers for example where a customer was locked into a contract on a subsidised system and as I said earlier it simply won't stop a determined person disabling a system.
And all it does is potentially cause aggravation for the customer for little if any benefit in terms of security, what if the installer of a locked system goes bust and can't be contacted? Where does that leave the customer?

Aside from the fact the typical Aplex or 3GS and even the newer galaxy installation may be difficult to get at it doesn't negate the fact that these high end systems do not have the feature as it is generally not necessary. You just dodged my question there

Anyway I think this has been thrashed out enough and I will agree to disagree with you, I understand your point even if I don't agree with it and in spite of what I said earlier I’m sure you are a decent installer you seem to care more than most in the industry at any rate.

gotta go lucky me is on call this week

K1

Take it easy redshift at least we agree on one thing enough has been said, Take it easy!!!

Lex Luthor

Silver Knight wrote:

Walk test is as useful as tits on a bull!....

1. Get a meter and set to about 200ohm

2. Disconnect zone from panel

3. connect long length of cable to disconnected zone

4. connect meter leads to other end of cable

This way you can walk around testing sensors and being able to look at the meter at the same time.

Silver Knight,
That's one hell of a long cable for what you're proposing....

I fail to see why you don't think a walk test is worth doing?

If you open or bang the window while doing the walk test and the alarm goes off, then it has proved that sensor works.

A walk test proves the sensors work, the multimeter prove they don't.

All you're doing during the walk test is checking that the contacts in each sensor break/open, when activated. If they don't then the sensor is failed closed.
The only other problem you can get is false alarms....that's when the sensor contacts open when they shouldn't. The panel should tell you the zone and then you need the time & patience you seek out the dogey sensor.

K1

Lex Luthor wrote:

Silver Knight,
That's one hell of a long cable for what you're proposing....

I fail to see why you don't think a walk test is worth doing?

If you open or bang the window while doing the walk test and the alarm goes off, then it has proved that sensor works.

A walk test proves the sensors work, the multimeter prove they don't.

All you're doing during the walk test is checking that the contacts in each sensor break/open, when activated. If they don't then the sensor is failed closed.
The only other problem you can get is false alarms....that's when the sensor contacts open when they shouldn't. The panel should tell you the zone and then you need the time & patience you seek out the dogey sensor.

you still havent a bog lex ,& it seems you dont even want to take the advice..A walk test is like a snap shot as reguards the devices working. There can still be a faulty contact of sensor that just happens to work when you walk test it.. A closed circut on your average panel reads 4700 ohms. Answer this -- what is the tolerance either side of that on an aritech panel??

fred funk }{

Lex Luthor wrote:

Silver Knight,
That's one hell of a long cable for what you're proposing....

I fail to see why you don't think a walk test is worth doing?

If you open or bang the window while doing the walk test and the alarm goes off, then it has proved that sensor works.

A walk test proves the sensors work, the multimeter prove they don't.

All you're doing during the walk test is checking that the contacts in each sensor break/open, when activated. If they don't then the sensor is failed closed.
The only other problem you can get is false alarms....that's when the sensor contacts open when they shouldn't. The panel should tell you the zone and then you need the time & patience you seek out the dogey sensor.

Look.....If you want to test your sensors correctly you need to do it with a meter. As you know when walk testing if you bang or open the window the internal siren rings, If a sensor is faulty or a little faulty the siren will ring regardless of them being faulty or not.

Contacts are either open or closed, Sensors are analysed and do not have to open to cause alarm, The panel measures the shocks either gross attack which is a single attack ie. Glass breaking or pulse count which measures small vibrations and counts them and when it reaches an amount pr-programmed sets off the alarm.

Regarding the length of the cable needed, You say 'That's one hell of a long cable for what you're proposing....' from the furtherest sensor to the panel, So it depends on what you call a long piece of cable, To me thats not long.

If you test your alarm properly you are not only checking to see if all the components are working but your looking for up coming faults ie. high resistance on zones, check battery power, charging voltage and bells etc.

When you do get false alarms how do you test the sensors then?

If you want to continue "testing" your alarm the way you do thats up to you.
Im just giving my opinion on the way i think it should be done.

jabaroon

Wow, im amazed how my original post from 2003 has managed to re-surface in 2005! I have been reading all of the activity on this thread with great interest and decided that I would take this opportunity to make a few observations.

Some background first...Since 2003, I have invested a small bit of time in getting very knowledgable with Aritech equipment. Originally, I wanted this knowledge so that I didn't have to pay silly maintenance prices to large companies that know they are taking you for a ride with their prices! I am now servicing my alarm myself and am fully (I think!) knowledgable about all aspects of its operation. Most recently, I have installed new contacts, PIR, Dialer and have done an interesting project whereby the alarm (when triggered) sends me a text message to my mobile phone!

First off, I would like to say that installing an maintaining your own alarm is not for everybody. You need to be realistic. If you have a technical/electrical type background, you are more likely to be able to take on the project. However, if you are not comfortable wiring a two-way landing light switch (for example), then you probably shouldn't consider trying to maintain your own alarm -- its a recipe for disaster!

Having a service contract and having a professionally installed system has clear benefits. These benefts become marginal where you have the aptitude/capability to take the job on yourself (see above). If you dont 100% know what you are doing, then you are asking for trouble.

If you dont know what you are doing, but you want to, then take it on as a little project for yourself -- but NOT on a live alarm system. Im my case, one of the things that I did was get an old Aritech panel and then I built a mock-up system on the 'bench'. This allowed me to play with all of the options, all different types of sensors, all different types of inputs/outputs, but ALL in the safety of my workbench. Only when I was FULLY satisfied that I clearly understood all of the electronic principles and practical realities, did I consider going near my live alarm system in my house. If this sounds like too much hastle, then sign-up for an alarm installation course (such as the one offered by FAS).

Now, some comments on some previous posts......

I do NOT accept the comment that any burgler can reset your alarm if it is not engineer locked. Anyone who knows anything about alarms will tell you that an engineer lock provides ZERO protection if a burgler wants to try and disable your alarm system. On all of the Aritech panels that I am familiar with, I could EASILY silence both internal and external sirens in about 20 seconds. This would be regardless of whether or not the engineer lock was active AND assumes that I can get access to the panel. If the panel is not easy to get at or reasonably secured, then I am not going to be able to silence it easily/quickly. Therefore, the most practical security on this front is to (take Redshifts advise) ensure that your panel is located in an appropriate area. Naturally, this mean that you do NOT want it on clear display and ideally you should have it in a press / cupboard / location that has a door that can be locked.

I dont accept the point that 'if you alarm goes nuts in the middle of the night...who ya gona call'. If you were silly enough to fiddle with your alarm and dont have a clue what you are doing, then your are silly enough to be faced with an alarm ringing at 2am and no way to silence it. If you do know what you are doing, then silencing the alarm is as simple as entering the user code and possibly the engineers code. In some instances, more activities may be required, but this would obviously be quite rare and most such instances would not occurr as a result of an un-qualified user fiddling with the system.

I dont accept the comment about mobile phones being locked to safe guard the phones!!!!! Woah, I really laughed at that one. Redshift is 100% spot on. The engineer lock is intended to prevent take-overs -- nothing more. Manafacturers do not perform panel resets because if they did, they would be P*ssing off their primary customers -- the installers!

However, if you do want to reset your panel, there ARE ways to do it. Some are clever and un-documented, others involved sending the panel to other "third party unlocking" companies (kinda the same as the mobile phone unlocking companies). For some of the Aritech boards, there is an IC that you can buy for a few cent in peats. Simply replacing this IC (assuming its not one of the models that has the IC soldered to the board) results in all of the codes being reset to factory defaults -- WITHOUT loosing your programming. Other Aritech boards (various models) can be reset by shorting the legs on an IC. And, I am certain that there are lots of other tricks / ways too!

Lex Luthor, you dont have a clue what you are talking about! A walk test is practically useless and worthless doing (for shock sensors). A shock sensor's ability to function within acceptable tolerances degrades over time. Without going into the technical nuts and bolts of why -- the just DO! In simple terms, as they degrade, their sensitivity increases. A big bang may be required to set off a sock sensor today, whereas the same sensor could be set off by a leaf hitting the door a year later!! I have experienced this myself and the ONLY way to properly test your installation is to meter each sensor (as described previously in this thread). Faulty sensors or sensors that are on the way out can be detected very quickly using this approach. Why bother doing this?...simple, if the sensor is getting more and more sensitive over time, then less and less is causing it to trigger. Thus, you get more false alarms. I fixed up a friends alarm recently. He was away for the weekend and apparently his alarm was going off all weekend. On looking at the logs, it was going off every 10-20 minutes (resetting and then triggering again). This was because the shock sensor on the back door was on its last legs and had become super sensitive. My initial walk test revealed no problem with the sensor. I banged it, the zone triggered. I put a meter on the zone and instantly I could see the sensor was kaput.

Phew!...long post.

My final thought (!!). If you know what you are doing (or are prepared to learn and have the aptitude to learn), then there is no reason why you shouldn't install/maintain your own system. If you are not 100% comfortable, get the professionals in to do it for you.

If you do decide to take on maintainenance of your own system, then there is three things that you should ALWAYS have plenty of in your tool box:
- A Multimeter. Get a good one!
- Lots of spare fuses (get a few of each one required by your panel)
- One or two spare shock sensors (so that you can quickly replace when they fail)
- An old panel to play with on the 'bench' (Optional, but worthwhile!)


Phew!
Jab

Lex Luthor

jabaroon wrote:

Lex Luthor, you dont have a clue what you are talking about! A walk test is practically useless and worthless doing (for shock sensors). A shock sensor's ability to function within acceptable tolerances degrades over time. Without going into the technical nuts and bolts of why -- the just DO! In simple terms, as they degrade, their sensitivity increases. A big bang may be required to set off a sock sensor today, whereas the same sensor could be set off by a leaf hitting the door a year later!! I have experienced this myself and the ONLY way to properly test your installation is to meter each sensor (as described previously in this thread). Faulty sensors or sensors that are on the way out can be detected very quickly using this approach. Why bother doing this?...simple, if the sensor is getting more and more sensitive over time, then less and less is causing it to trigger. Thus, you get more false alarms. I fixed up a friends alarm recently. He was away for the weekend and apparently his alarm was going off all weekend. On looking at the logs, it was going off every 10-20 minutes (resetting and then triggering again). This was because the shock sensor on the back door was on its last legs and had become super sensitive. My initial walk test revealed no problem with the sensor. I banged it, the zone triggered. I put a meter on the zone and instantly I could see the sensor was kaput.

Guys, I don't claim to be an alarm expert here and if I ever get false alarms, I'll take your advice to test out each sesnor. But that's it...I've never had a false alarm. I walk test my alarm system every 6 months. I try to use the same amount of force each time to test each shock sensor and in 8yrs I have not had any problems.
If over time, shock sensors degrade and become more sensitive than less sensitive, then I say that's a good thing. Better more sensitive than less sensitive. What's the worst that could happen...FALSE ALARMS????
If an alarm passes a walk test, of which I always do twice and the next day a burglar gets in your house and the sensor didn't pick him up, then that's life. You could have a full service history on your car, pass the NCT and it might not start for you the next day. It's the same principle.
As for fixing up your friends alarm the day before he goes away for the weekend...????? :rolleyes:
I'm sure his neighbours loved him when he got back.

Dixie28

Hi can anyone help I have changed the senser on a window because the cover was loose and wouldnt tighten since then the display keeps coming up with system arming then open zone then tamper 6.
i have changed the sensor twice and have checked the wireing.

hope you can help!!!
thanks

spinaltap

Hi I am interested if anyone knows of any courses for alarm installation.
I am looking for a prt time course in Dublin that will do the differant stages of alarm installation, like cctv, fire alarm etc, I hear Fas do one, but cant find out if its full time or not, the website doent specify, any clues