RTE: Today with Pat Kenny - Etain Doyle.

pork99

Like Homer in Flushing Meadows.

or Homer in the land of chocolate; "mmmmm.... chocolate half price....."

Canadian

I just burst into one of the guys offices in Corporate Finance to explain this stupidity to me. He's our most senior Irish executive and he explained that some guy called Tony O'Rielly who runs Eircom ALSO runs the media here (Chorus/newspapers etc), AND has a 'special' relationship with the irish government.

Forgive my suprise, but this is the first time i've heard about this situation... Seems like he pretty much owns all the players involved.

In any case, this now makes TOTAL SENSE. The government has set up some puppet group called the OTDR to pretend it's doing something useful, while giving it NO power to make anything happen. They are motivated NOT to have competition in the telcom business becuase the guy who keeps them in power is making money hand over fist while the monopoly lives.

This would be extremely disheartening if I knew I wasn't leaving in a couple years.
====================
Keep Ireland in Africa
Vote No to Nice

pork99

Tony O'Rielly who runs Eircom ALSO runs the media here (Chorus/newspapers etc), AND has a 'special' relationship with the irish government.

yep, guess who's first up against the wall come the revolution

Tony O'Reilly - sort of a bargain basement Rupert Murdoch - seriously though if he is any sort of competent business man he would see that his long term interests are not best served by the current situation, on the other hand if eircom, chorus etc are money for old rope......

De Rebel

Originally posted by pork99


yep, guess who's first up against the wall come the revolution

Tony O'Reilly - sort of a bargain basement Rupert Murdoch - seriously though if he is any sort of competent business man he would see that his long term interests are not best served by the current situation, on the other hand if eircom, chorus etc are money for old rope......

Beanz O'Reilly has no long term interest whatsoever in Ericom. He bought it cheap and the intention is to slim it down, sweat the assets and float it again asap and make a killing. In actual fact, his interests are direct opposite to those of the state and most of Eircom's customers: Infrastructural expenditure, service improvements, new service rollouts etc all cost money and take time to achieve payback. None of those are on the agenda. Its simply a case of keep the show on the road, do as little as possible that involves capital expenditure, reduce costs as fast as possible (get rid of people) and maximise profits so that when he sells it off he achieves the best possible price.

eircomtribunal

We've put a transcript of the Internet related part of the interview up on www.eircomtribunal.com

Regards

Peter

MDR

OMG,

thats a hell alot of work for such a small period of timer, you must have been doing it all afternoon ?

dahamsta

Pat: When… When!

Heh, he almost sounded like an IrelandOffline member there.

adam

mike65

Heres the body of an e-mail I'm about to send off the Pat Kenny.

Dear Pat,

As a quite heavy home user of the net and member of pressure group Ireland Offline I listened to your discussion with telecoms regulator Etaine Doyle with interest, one thought that stuck me was have the regulator has very little power to do her job which of course suits the incumbant operators nicely. You mentioned in passing how eircoms lines were once owned by us, the sell-off by the government was dreadfully short-sighted, had the company remained in public ownership the lack of flat-rate and broadband could have been overcome by political will. Now its all down to Etiane Doyles office but as mentioned it does'nt have the big stick required.

The arrival of UTV into the republics internet & telephony market is a small Godsend, I signed up to thier flat-rate package on the day it was announced. The same day the two UTV managers trusted with the service joined the Irelandoffline message board and as queries were posted, they quickly answered them and even tweaked the package details if they saw a suggestion that make good sense. Scott Taunton and Martin Lyons have shown the way to others. Sadly though I can't imagine eircom having that sort of open, foward-thinking nouse.

I'll leave it there, except to say that the regulator, the minister in charge and the top mangament of eircom should have the following tattoed on the back of thier hands-

"The Internet is the Internal Combustion Engine of the 21st Century"

Cheers

Mike65.

I could have gone on but it would'nt stand a chance of being read-out if I did.

Mike.

irishguy

For those who missed it ... Pat Kenny 30/09/2002

that is the wrong like here is the right one
would someone be so nice as to contact pat kenny and ask him if he could get repersentiaves from telcos to come on his show...i would do this myself but i am not that good at persuasive writing,if he got a nice profesional letter from someone this would do alot and mabey they will except

spongebob

I have plagiarised the Eircomtribunal Transcript here , thanks guys

Etain: First of all, I think in relation to Letterkenny they should look at things like wireless based services…

Pat: But they want to do it in a particular way, they want broadband…

Etain: ...they want DSL services … is what I suspected they want… and… erm… as far as I know none of the… erm… neither Esat or Eircom are offering that in Derry,

Kerrriiisssttt I'd hate to sit through a meeting with that woman!

Since when was there a wireless service in Letterkenny (faster than Vodafone HSCSD 43k) or did Eircom and Esat offer any services in Derry....never mind Broadband.

What a disgraceful lack of command of ones brief.

I also thought Pat had come up to speed very nicely on the subject seeing as he is new to it and that Etain had expected him to listen quietly as she gave one of her speeches.

Bet she wont be back on his program again.

M

PiE

Yea, for once I was glad to hear Pat interupt someone mid-sentence :]

Etain Doyle is a inept, useless, slimy, sycophant. If only there was a way to replace her with someone who knows what he/she is talking about.

hmmm

Interview was great - Pat did a really good job of asking mostly the right questions even though he probably has a fairly tenuous grasp of what is involved Highlights included the "Estonia?" and "Satellite will cost him a fortune" and "but you're the regulator?"

Etain came across a bumbling idiot to me. I don't think she was allowed claim success on anything. Her ranting on about nonexistant FWA in Letterkenny should be quoted to her in foot tall letters on placards outside her window in the Irish Life building.

Hopefully more interviews like this will show the country (and those who run it) that they need to get the right person for the job into her position soon.

sceptre

Agreed - thought PK did a really good job. Comments like "it's not real" near the end show fairly plainly that he wasn't fooled by the case being pushed by Etain Doyle that everything was pretty much fine. I think we may have acquired another interested ally.

Kenny is far from stupid - and he's probably happy to keep interest onair in a subject that gets listeners and gets a good amount of reaction from the public. Judging from his comments he had more than the average amount of contact from interested people prior to the interview. Might be worth some of us submitting a few comments (and thanks) again now that the deed is done/started.

Paddy20

Suggestion,

Pat seemed too handle Ms Doyle fairly firmly and did seem to appreciate the demand for affordable fixed rate internet services, both Broadband and ordinary 56k dial up packages.

This might be an opportune time for the IOFFL Committee to suggest to Pat that a spot of time on the Late Late show on this unfinished issue! would now be appropriate in the interest of fair play and establishing a "Level playing field" for all internet users here in the Republic.

I seem to remember suggesting this once before!, and was shot down in flames as a dreamer.

Remember, it is common practise for interesting subjects/ socio -economic issues such as this which was left hanging at the end of todays show, to be followed up with a live audience participation slot on the Late Late?. What is it there for if not exactly this??.

How about it this time, IOFFL Committee - Bite the bullet and see!.

Yours,

paddy20

Paddy20

Message to, Canadian & pork99,

RE:- "Sir Anthony O Reilly"?,

Have you had a look at what appears on - Sir Anthony O Reilly - if you simply type his name in to the search engine "Google"!.

The pages of information on - him and his (Circle) is frightening!.

Talk about - Power brokers united - say no more. Just have a good look.

I am in shock again.

Good Luck, its a real "Eye opener" in many respects.

See you,

paddy20:cool:

DonegalMan

Originally posted by hmmm
Her ranting on about nonexistant FWA in Letterkenny should be quoted to her in foot tall letters on placards outside her window in the Irish Life building.

Not to forget her suggestion that I should "talk to the telco's".



Martin Harran

DonegalMan

Originally posted by Muck
Since when ...did Eircom and Esat offer any services in Derry

In fairness, that was an obvious slip of the tongue.

Whilst I agree with most people here that she did a dreadful interview, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that there are genuine restrictions on what she and can and cannot do - simply replacing her with someone else would not change this; we must keep presssure on to make sure that the new commisssion is given wider, more proactive powers.

Couple of points in the interview that I thought were good:

1) At the start:

"Pat: Now, the issue that seems to dominate some of the calls we’ve got is about the Internet, why it’s so expensive to get on the Internet in Ireland.

Etain: Okay, there is a number of points I’d like to make here… I’m sure your callers are looking for is a flatrate service… "

The fact that as soon as the Internet was mentioned, she started talking about flat rate shows the job that IOFFL has done in putting it at the top of the agenda.


2) About Eircom

"Pat: And why doesn’t Eircom offer a service like this, I mean if there’s money to be made, I mean the lines are lying idle, it actually doesn’t cost a huge amount in terms of the electricity bill to deliver this kind of service into peoples homes.

Etain: Well, I suggest you bring in somebody from Eircom and ask them those kind of questions…"

You have to allow the for the 'double speak' that public servants have to use - the fact that she made no attempt to defend Eircom is the equivalent of "Because I think they're a bunch of f***ers but my public position doesn't allow me to say so"

Martin

Dangger

The interview was a shocker!

But as previously stated it underscores their continued powerlessness.

What Pat Kenny simply illustrated was, despite all she said her office had done at the end of the day the consumers (who they have a remit to protect by "ensuring the telecommunications market place is free from monopolistici practices") have seen no benefit and continue to suffer from lack of services and high pricing. He used this tact many times throughout the interview to cut through the spin and waffle, to great effect.

spongebob

1. Etain lacked any sense of what she is at...and has been for 5 years now. Somebody with a sense of purpose can say things like 'we set out to' or 'we decided' there are no action words in her excuses, its all ( I paraphrase) 'we can't' 'we may soon but can't now' 'we'll get a report off a consultant''

2. PK (until today) displayed no in depth knowledge of the issue behind the dismal state of data connectivity in Ireland. Etain thought she was gonna make another conference speech. He's fairly rolling now!

3. PK lit into her about her record as a regulator, she was on the back foot straight away. All her successes were (mainly) in 1998/9 when she got CPS off the ground smartly. Since then? Nothing!

Now to her own words.

Thanks Eircomtribunal For The Transcript

Pat: How does that work by the way? UTV is based in Northern Ireland. Do you have control over them?

Etain: UTV is.. I mean anybody can come into Ireland and get the opportunity to provide telecommunications…

Pat: But are you regulating…

Etain: They are operating through a company that is regulated by the office.

(She remembered that Nevada are licenced by her back there)

This next bit is classic!

Pat: We’re way behind, aren’t we? There are countries which are ahead of us…

Etain: ...yes…

Pat: …that if you were to list them out you’d say “Oh well, they are just emerging from the Eastern block, they’ve got to be third world in terms of telecoms” and then you find they are ahead of us...

Etain: ...yes…

Pat: Estonia.

Etain: …yes, it is the case. Then, when you take a OECD table that is produced which deals only with cable modems and only with DSL technology… erm… that we don’t have as many of those rolled out as elsewhere, and if you take… erm… but I have no reason to believe that we shan’t catch up on that and indeed go ahead..

Pat: Why are we so slow?

Etain: We’ve done some research into this…

Catch up on what?
Research into what?

We are receding into the distance behind Estonia among others too numerous to mention. Its almost too late Etain

Jump please....go graciously. You could not chair a wet paper bag, the manner of your leaving and all that.

M

PiE

Originally posted by DonegalMan
we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that there are genuine restrictions on what she and can and cannot do - simply replacing her with someone else would not change this

Maybe if she was replaced by someone with a bloody spine it might! She goes on and on about not having any power but I don't remember the last time she came here asking us to support her in her efforts to get the government to increase her ability to regulate.

mike65

Whats Doyles background, is she just a civil servant or from business/academia?

If its the former one would'nt expect anything like get up and go.

Regarding her presentation shes just no good in front of a mic, everytime she fluffs her lines and sounds uncertain.
A bit of coaching would'nt go amiss.

Mike.

yellum

Originally posted by DonegalMan


- simply replacing her with someone else would not change this; we must keep presssure on to make sure that the new commisssion is given wider, more proactive powers. Etain keeps saying she has no powers, ASK FOR MORE

Well the new person might be more enthusiatic to bring the telcos to task, and if they're not they too can be replaced.


The fact that as soon as the Internet was mentioned, she started talking about flat rate shows the job that IOFFL has done in putting it at the top of the agenda.


I disagree, they pulled the same stunt in the Future Delivery of Broadband document. They're using UTV to show that theres a solution out there. Its not proper flat rate , she chose flat rate as the broadband situation is even worse.

the fact that she made no attempt to defend Eircom is the equivalent of "Because I think they're a bunch of f***ers but my public position doesn't allow me to say so"


The fact that she doesn't say anything bad about them either shows some sort of apathy to the present situation. Telco regulation in this country no longer had a hearbeat.

Prepare for surgery as some vital organs need to be replaced.

DonegalMan

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to defend her in anyway, as I said it was a dreadful interview, if I was her I wouldn't dare to be questioned in public when the impact of the ODTR has been so pathetic. I'm just making the point that it's not simply a case of replacing her, the whole framework for the ODTR - and indeed its very 'raison d'etre' - has to be radically reviewed.

Martin

Slutmonkey57b

For all the rubbish that gets spouted about "legal basis" you'd think that there was smething in EU law preventing her from taking action! It's cr@p! The regulator in this country has no power because the GOVERNMENT gave it no power - it's legal status as an implement of the executive to regulate the operation of companies is bestowed on it by our government, NOT the EU.

Question: What power does the EU have to DICTATE to the government how it drafts or enforces the law in this country?

Answer: The government is required to implement EU laws that it has signed up for by treaty.

Is there a "you are not allowed to award telecoms licences on the basis of 'This is your license if you provide xyz', if not your fines are 600million a day or we yank it off you'." Treaty? Uuuh No there isn't - but the government will use the EU as an excuse for why they haven't done anything about it. As usual, bitch at the filthy useless corrupt politicians, they're the ones responsible.

De Rebel

Questions. Questions. Questions. But is the ODTR really to blame??

I will happily accept that it was a poor interview and that there is much about the performance of the ODTR that can be criticised. To me it seems that they often spend more time crafting press releases than doing anything productive

But

The office exists fundamentally to regulate the telecommunications environment, not to devise and implement policy. Perhaps a lot of the time wasting activity and window dressing is the result of deep frustration.

As a regulator, the performance of the office over the last few years has been reasonable. In many instances the office has exceeded its brief and attempted to influence policy and bring about change.

The trail of responsibility starts in the Department of Communications (Public Enterprise). It is possible to point fingers in many directions within that outfit - take a look at the structure, of the 6 Assistant Secretaries – the layer where work gets driven and “done” Here and click on Management Committee
- 3 focus on “da marine”
- 1 in forestry and mining
- 1 in Energy
and
- 1 in communications (including post, and e-commerce)
Some statement in relation to where our government’s priorities lie.

But even beyond the civil servants, the real issue is at the political level. This is where policy decisions should be made and budgets approved. O’Rourke was a catastrophic disaster, undoing achievements that dated back over 20 years. The real inertia is here, at ministerial and at cabinet level. In the 70s, a hard pressed government realised it had to spend money on communications. Subsequent governments of all hues accelerated this expenditure, and in difficult times. O’Rourke didn’t have the guts or the wit to stand up to Harney and keep Eircom in the public sector. Instead, it was tossed to a bunch of speculators with dire consequences.

The reality is that the state does not now have the means to implement policy. This has been amply demonstrated over the last 12 months – we now have the Department of the Taoiseach and the County Councils involved in delivering Broadband infrastructure. At this stage we don’t even know who to approach…. who to blame.

The situation is dire. Blaming the ODTR is pointless. The real issues are political. There is little sign that this has been realised by our leaders, and less indication that anything is going to be done about it.

Pat Kenny would never have conducted himself like that if he were interviewing a Minister. Instead he would have been his usual fawning arse licking self. If he did go that hard on a Minister it would have been Joe Jacob all over again, if not worse.

Kicking the ODTR is pointless – IMO it would it would be much fairer to mention it to the spineless monkeys who will be canvassing for votes in the coming weeks. Not that they will understand, much less act.

eircomtribunal

We've added some comment to the "Etain tries to lead Pat down the garden path" interview.

Nobody seems to have commented on Etains "ADSL cannot be delivered on 2 copper wires" nonsense yet?

And we do have a gruesome pic, too.


ODTR’s Etain to Pat Kenny: “Okay, there is a number of points I’d like to make here… erm… Ireland… erm… does have… erm… obviously it does have access to the Internet”

Peter

Paddy20

eircomtribunal,

That artwork should be plastered all over Ireland as a LARGE POSTER, with the slogan "Are YOU suffering from "Eircomitis" An afflication with no known cure?.

Lodge your PROTEST with - eircomtribunal - at www?:cool:

Mr E

Excellent as always, Peter. Well done.

I'd email that link back to Pat's show, and see if he comments on it.

- Dave.

ednwireland

never thought selling eircom to tony o'reilly was a good idea and denis o'brien doesn't seem to look so bad from here (grass is greener etc)

what possesed the gov. to sell a state infrastructure to a private individual ? (apart from brown envelopes)

i don't understand anymore, etain doyle will be appointed because she doesn't have the guts to stand up and say what she believes in (if this is anything apart from keeping her job ) i have worked in a number of companies and always stood up to md 's ceo's etc (even in EDS got b*****ed for that one).
I just don't understand what this is about.
unless its about making money for their cronies

dahamsta

ENN

According to the Irish Times, telecoms regulator Etain Doyle may open up cable firms' networks to competition next year. Speaking on the Pat Kenny radio show on Monday, Doyle said a new EU regulatory regime next year would make the "unbundling" of cable networks a possibility. Unbundling would enable other companies to offer services over NTL and Chorus' existing network of copper cables, which extends to more than 500,000 homes. However, the poor condition of NTL's cable TV network in Dublin, Waterford and Galway may make it unusable by other companies.

Oh, she'll be having a busy day on the phones today...

adam