RTE: Today with Pat Kenny - Etain Doyle.

SkepticOne

On Monday, 30 September, at 10am, Pat Kenny will be interviewing the telecommunications regulator Etain Doyle on the subject of mobile, Internet access and broadband communications and is inviting questions from the public.

To send in questions, simply email the show at todaypk@rte.ie. Please make sure you title the email clearly, e.g.: "Etain Doyle - Broadband Question".

Questions can also be faxed on 01 2082634 and phoned in live on 1850 715 900. More information is available from the show's website.

RTE Radio 1 can be listened to live over the internet here.

We'll be sending out an email to all our members later tonight.

mike65

Glad I read this, I heard him mention it at the end of his show today then completely forgot.

If 80% of questions and comments are'nt from IOFFL
members/posters all be amazed!

Mike.

Paddy20

Skepticone,

Is this interview restricted too "Mobile & Broadband communications!"

As there is no mention of - Flat Rate or fixed fee internet schemes am I detecting a bias somewhere against "Affordable FRIACO for all" in this interview.

Yours,

Paddy20

segadreamcast

Why does Flat Rate have to be talked about just because broadband is being discussed Paddy20?

Dustaz

paddy20, the email address is right there if you want to adress that point.

Paddy20

NoelRock,

Why not a Flat Rate Broadband service, as well as a 56k slow service - both at fixed always on monthly fair fees?

Yours,

paddy20.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by paddy20
Skepticone,

Is this interview restricted too "Mobile & Broadband communications!"

That is what Pat Kenny said on the radio. Other subjects may be included. It is not down to IOFFL.

As there is no mention of - Flat Rate or fixed fee internet schemes am I detecting a bias somewhere against "Affordable FRIACO for all" in this interview.

Well, they've also excluded leased lines, frequency allocations, etc. Flat-rate is something that I'd like to see included but it is the producers choice as to what Etain Doyle is interviewed about. I would not call it "bias" as such, merely that they've taken two of the areas that the ODTR is concerned with.

segadreamcast

Originally posted by SkepticOne
That is what Pat Kenny said on the radio. Other subjects may be included. It is not down to IOFFL.Well, they've also excluded leased lines, frequency allocations, etc. Flat-rate is something that I'd like to see included but it is the producers choice as to what Etain Doyle is interviewed about. I would not call it "bias" as such, merely that they've taken two of the areas that the ODTR is concerned with.

Exactly - the ODTR are just as concerned with pirate radio as they are with broadband or flat rate* - RTE are just picking out two topics relevant to their audience and discussing them in-depth. The more topics they discuss, the less depth is covered.

*- As Far As I Know

mike65

From Today with Pat Kenny

...on monday telecoms regulator Etaine Doyle will be with us, among the topics I'll be discussiong with her are the cost of mobile phone busines in gerneral, internet access and rolling out of broadband structures...

Mike.

SkepticOne

Top post edited accordingly. Tnx Mike.

Paddy20

Mike65,

Very many thanks, for clarifying my "Broadband bias worry".

Well, now that I know that - Internet access - is on the agenda for open discussion in accordance with broadcasting regulations.

As Dustaz already suggested I will now send an e-mail question relating too the scandalous lack of a "Always on Internet access fixed fee service here in the Irish Republic" When same is vital to all sectors of the Irish community, and is already being availed of by most European citizens. Their gain is our loss.

I just hope that Mr Pat Kenny will put my question too "Herself" in a firm and decisive tone of "Some gravitas"!.

Good luck.

Yours,

paddy20:)

Paddy20

Well,

My e-mail has been duly despatched at 10.00, 29th September to the Pat Kenny show.

Copy of my e-mail also forwarded to info@irelandoffline.org. You are very welcome to post it up for other members to read if you wish.

I wonder how many members sent in messages?. I would love to read them in a thread like "Questions submitted to Etain Doyle".

Just a suggestion which could be interesting and enlightening.

Yours,

paddy20;)

sceptre

Forwarded them details of the eircomtribunal petition with my response to our Minister for CAB announcements. It does mention Etain after all.

LFCFan

Just listening to her now. They're talking about the internet.

pork99

Pat Kenny - the man who makes Alan Partridge look like Bertrand Russell

he's asking some lame question about providing broadband to Connemara

LFCFan

when asked about Flat Rate she's talking about UTVip.

Q. Why is there no 24/7 Flat rate?

A. She says that only half of Europe has it. Talking about FRIACO. She says there's no legal basis for it.

Q. Why don't €ircon offer this?

A. Get someone from €ircon in to talk about it (She hasn't a clue).

Q. Do €ircon have a problem. Ireland is small so why can't they get it done. Have to give it to everyone so it would cost too much.

A. She's going on about S. Korea that has a lot of people in small areas. America has only 10% coverage for Broadband.

Q. Do we have to be dearer than the UK because we are Ireland?

A. Major funding gap and talks about the government giving grants. She says that ADSL needs an upgrade to the exchanges. Esat wouldn't have done anything only they got money from the Government.

Q. We're way behind?

A. She agrees that we are way behind but she says we will catch up and overtake all these other countries. She says it's because of other countries having to unbundle the loops. She says NTL ran out of money so couldn't complete their broadband roll out.

Q. NTL were supposed to deliver all sorts of great service???

A. Going on about licenses that doesn't require them to provide internet services. They gave them the license to deliver digital television and the other stuff was never part of the license even though they promised it. NTL are nearly bankrupt but Chapter 11(US system to help companies) might help.

Q. Why not unblundle the NTL loop?

A. They are working on it. Legal problems etc. Supposed to happen last March. Going on about funds again. She can't unbundle at the moment because of legalities but EU law next year might change this.

Q. Will competition be allowed in???

A. It may happen but she can't say at the moment.


On a break now!

ednwireland

just listened to second half of internet discussion
as far as i see it she has no power to do ANYTHING

Etain Doyle=waste of space !

mind you the mind numbingly corrupt self serving FF gov probably has something to do with it

pork99

oh my God!

the clueless shall speak unto the clueless

Just listened to that interview...:eek:

She came out with complete waffle....
There was a lot of emmm... ahh...emmm...ahhh...emmm...emmm in her answers mixed with this waffle.
Virtually every answer was along the lines of "I have no legal basis for that...":rolleyes:

I can only conclude that this ODTR has no power at all.
I strongly suspect that the only answer is a tribunal to find out if theres any brown envelopes flying in whatever direction to keep this country in the dark ages :mad:
At least a ten year wait if it has to go down that road.
mm
p.s
This issue more than anything else is warming me to the Nice Treaty in the sense that most movement on anything at all seems to come via Europe.

VeeEmmy

Originally posted by LFCFan

...She's going on about S. Korea that has a lot of people in small areas. America has only 10% coverage for Broadband.

She actually said only "10% of the U.S. have broadband."

Slippery wording, to suit the situation. I wonder how much of the US population has the AVAILABILITY, the OPTION, the CHOICE of broadband. Not just what percentage has signed on so far!

Roughly .025% (that's 2.5 hundredths of one percent) of Ireland has broadband. Perhaps .05% has the availability! ha. But of course she could say that 100% of Ireland has broadband availability if we'd all subscribe to one of the various extremely expensive complicated wireless options available.

I can't say I was surprised at her empty, powerless, uninformative words. How lame IS this alleged "position" of hers??? Why does it exist at all?

ODTR.... "R" stands for REGULATOR, right? But she has no power to regulate anything from what she said!

Lemming

Anyone get that on mp3 or whatever format?

I missed it

DonegalMan

Pat Kenny at the end of the show summarised an email that I had sent him; in case anyone is interested here is the full text of it:

Dear Pat

First a bit of background; I have a retail business with 5 branches in the Republic and 5 branches in Northern Ireland. It is NOT a high tech business - we sell wooden floors - but we want to use the Internet to link our branches together for inventory purposes.

I would like to compare the situation North and South.

Two weeks ago, we opened a shop in Derry, about 20 miles from our head office in Letterkenny. The day I installed the computer in Derry, I applied for broadband access with the choice of three providers (there probably were more but I was happy with any of these three). Nine days later, our broadband was up and running at an installation cost of £50 (78 Euro) and monthly cost of £30 (47 Euro).

Just 20 miles up the road at our head office in Letterkenny, what is the broadband situation in regard to broadband? Answer - zilch! There is NO broadband availability in Letterkenny and no one can tell me when, if ever, it will be available.

At this stage, because we desperately need some form of always-on connection, I am considering a satellite installation. This will cost us up to 1500 Euro for installation and anywhere between 150 and 400 Euro per month ongoing - 20 times the installation cost for Derry and up to 8 times the monthly cost for a service that is less efficient. Whilst we can carry this cost at our head office, it is not economically viable at our other branches.

Ireland is trailing dismally behind the rest of the world in Internet access and it is hurting business at a time when we are all concerned about our economic performance. Etain Doyle will probably argue that her office is responsible only for the regulatory framework and not for the rollout of services. The reality, however, is that somewhere between the legislation and the ODTR's regulation of it, the right conditions have not been created for providers to offer the services that this country so desperately needs.



Martin Harran, Director
VFM Floors
Thorn Road
Letterkenny
Co. Donegal

Footnote:
I don't know whether your discussion will focus solely on Broadband or will also cover flat rate dial-up (FRIACO); in regard to the latter, whilst it would not be an ideal solution for our business, it would at least provide a stopgap solution.

dahamsta

Feel free to let IrelandOffline know how you feel about Etain Doyle being made Chair of the new Commission here.

adam

Fergus

Notice the way Doyle kept going on about can't do anything cos of not having any legal basis to intervene in relation to flat-rate, ntl, etc..

But then at the end of the interview she happily tells us all the great effort and progress they are making to bring the consumer mobile number portability, despite in her words having no legal basis to intervene.

Maybe they should rename her the Director of Regulation of Phone Number Prefixes, cos that seems to be about all she is able to control.

yellum

After reading LFCFan's summary I'm pretty disappointed to say the least.

Anyone get a full transcript of what was said ?

longword

Does anyone else get the feeling that her job is not to look out for us, but rather to ensure that all of the operators can rip us off equally?

LFCFan

...........part in Irish Politics. I don't trust anyone anymore in the government or anyone associated with them. Even if Bertie was to get the push, who is there to replace him? Brian Cowen? He's as useless as Bertie. We need a Government that is in touch with the 21st Century needs of it's people. Seeing as we employ Berties and his goons we should be able to sack him too. 5 years is too long to have to wait to have another vote on the matter and by then the dopey Irish Public will have forgotten all about their lies this time round and will probably vote them back in again on the back of more lies. By then though we will have fallen back to 2nd World Status and unemployment will be at an all time high. I just hope I won't be living here to witness it.

MDR

For those who missed it ... Pat Kenny 30/09/2002

Canadian

Q. We're way behind?

A. She agrees that we are way behind but she says we will catch up and overtake all these other countries.

I'm amazed that someone so stupid can actually keep a heart beating while speaking. The world in which she lives is a truly different place.


====================
Save the Spotted Owl
Vote No to Nice

dahamsta

I'm amazed that someone so stupid can actually keep a heart beating while speaking.

It's written on the back of her hand.

The world in which she lives is a truly different place.

Like Homer in Flushing Meadows.

heh

Seriously though, what concerns me isn't so much the fact that Etain and her Office are (apparently!) powerless, it's the fact that they've effectively tried to hide it, this last quarterly review being the most blatant - and disgusting - example. So what I'm wondering now - I haven't heard the interview yet - is whether Etain was fessing up here today, or did she try and bluster past her powerlessness. Seriously now, honest answer.

adam

TacT

I was gobsmacked to hear how absolutely helpless and useless she is to make any progress in any area, why is she there at all.

As someone else said she has the power when it comes to prefixing our phone numbers otherwise all she has to do is make sure we all get equally ripped off and aggrevated at the lack of any service anywhere.

We were in the dark ages for so long, then when money did start coming into the country all the people with any kind of power decided they had best make a little niche for themselves and this corruption has carried through and I cannot see it stopping, Irish politics are a disgrace to it's people. Fat cats want to get fatter and we get left behind because none of them have the power to do anything, or so they would have us believe.

I think I shall have left this isle in search of greener pastures before I pull all my hair out or they decide to give us some friggin bandwidth. :mad:

mail sent accordingly, AGAIN.

pork99

Like Homer in Flushing Meadows.

or Homer in the land of chocolate; "mmmmm.... chocolate half price....."

Canadian

I just burst into one of the guys offices in Corporate Finance to explain this stupidity to me. He's our most senior Irish executive and he explained that some guy called Tony O'Rielly who runs Eircom ALSO runs the media here (Chorus/newspapers etc), AND has a 'special' relationship with the irish government.

Forgive my suprise, but this is the first time i've heard about this situation... Seems like he pretty much owns all the players involved.

In any case, this now makes TOTAL SENSE. The government has set up some puppet group called the OTDR to pretend it's doing something useful, while giving it NO power to make anything happen. They are motivated NOT to have competition in the telcom business becuase the guy who keeps them in power is making money hand over fist while the monopoly lives.

This would be extremely disheartening if I knew I wasn't leaving in a couple years.
====================
Keep Ireland in Africa
Vote No to Nice

pork99

Tony O'Rielly who runs Eircom ALSO runs the media here (Chorus/newspapers etc), AND has a 'special' relationship with the irish government.

yep, guess who's first up against the wall come the revolution

Tony O'Reilly - sort of a bargain basement Rupert Murdoch - seriously though if he is any sort of competent business man he would see that his long term interests are not best served by the current situation, on the other hand if eircom, chorus etc are money for old rope......

De Rebel

Originally posted by pork99


yep, guess who's first up against the wall come the revolution

Tony O'Reilly - sort of a bargain basement Rupert Murdoch - seriously though if he is any sort of competent business man he would see that his long term interests are not best served by the current situation, on the other hand if eircom, chorus etc are money for old rope......

Beanz O'Reilly has no long term interest whatsoever in Ericom. He bought it cheap and the intention is to slim it down, sweat the assets and float it again asap and make a killing. In actual fact, his interests are direct opposite to those of the state and most of Eircom's customers: Infrastructural expenditure, service improvements, new service rollouts etc all cost money and take time to achieve payback. None of those are on the agenda. Its simply a case of keep the show on the road, do as little as possible that involves capital expenditure, reduce costs as fast as possible (get rid of people) and maximise profits so that when he sells it off he achieves the best possible price.

eircomtribunal

We've put a transcript of the Internet related part of the interview up on www.eircomtribunal.com

Regards

Peter

MDR

OMG,

thats a hell alot of work for such a small period of timer, you must have been doing it all afternoon ?

dahamsta

Pat: When… When!

Heh, he almost sounded like an IrelandOffline member there.

adam

mike65

Heres the body of an e-mail I'm about to send off the Pat Kenny.

Dear Pat,

As a quite heavy home user of the net and member of pressure group Ireland Offline I listened to your discussion with telecoms regulator Etaine Doyle with interest, one thought that stuck me was have the regulator has very little power to do her job which of course suits the incumbant operators nicely. You mentioned in passing how eircoms lines were once owned by us, the sell-off by the government was dreadfully short-sighted, had the company remained in public ownership the lack of flat-rate and broadband could have been overcome by political will. Now its all down to Etiane Doyles office but as mentioned it does'nt have the big stick required.

The arrival of UTV into the republics internet & telephony market is a small Godsend, I signed up to thier flat-rate package on the day it was announced. The same day the two UTV managers trusted with the service joined the Irelandoffline message board and as queries were posted, they quickly answered them and even tweaked the package details if they saw a suggestion that make good sense. Scott Taunton and Martin Lyons have shown the way to others. Sadly though I can't imagine eircom having that sort of open, foward-thinking nouse.

I'll leave it there, except to say that the regulator, the minister in charge and the top mangament of eircom should have the following tattoed on the back of thier hands-

"The Internet is the Internal Combustion Engine of the 21st Century"

Cheers

Mike65.

I could have gone on but it would'nt stand a chance of being read-out if I did.

Mike.

irishguy

For those who missed it ... Pat Kenny 30/09/2002

that is the wrong like here is the right one
would someone be so nice as to contact pat kenny and ask him if he could get repersentiaves from telcos to come on his show...i would do this myself but i am not that good at persuasive writing,if he got a nice profesional letter from someone this would do alot and mabey they will except

spongebob

I have plagiarised the Eircomtribunal Transcript here , thanks guys

Etain: First of all, I think in relation to Letterkenny they should look at things like wireless based services…

Pat: But they want to do it in a particular way, they want broadband…

Etain: ...they want DSL services … is what I suspected they want… and… erm… as far as I know none of the… erm… neither Esat or Eircom are offering that in Derry,

Kerrriiisssttt I'd hate to sit through a meeting with that woman!

Since when was there a wireless service in Letterkenny (faster than Vodafone HSCSD 43k) or did Eircom and Esat offer any services in Derry....never mind Broadband.

What a disgraceful lack of command of ones brief.

I also thought Pat had come up to speed very nicely on the subject seeing as he is new to it and that Etain had expected him to listen quietly as she gave one of her speeches.

Bet she wont be back on his program again.

M

PiE

Yea, for once I was glad to hear Pat interupt someone mid-sentence :]

Etain Doyle is a inept, useless, slimy, sycophant. If only there was a way to replace her with someone who knows what he/she is talking about.

hmmm

Interview was great - Pat did a really good job of asking mostly the right questions even though he probably has a fairly tenuous grasp of what is involved Highlights included the "Estonia?" and "Satellite will cost him a fortune" and "but you're the regulator?"

Etain came across a bumbling idiot to me. I don't think she was allowed claim success on anything. Her ranting on about nonexistant FWA in Letterkenny should be quoted to her in foot tall letters on placards outside her window in the Irish Life building.

Hopefully more interviews like this will show the country (and those who run it) that they need to get the right person for the job into her position soon.

sceptre

Agreed - thought PK did a really good job. Comments like "it's not real" near the end show fairly plainly that he wasn't fooled by the case being pushed by Etain Doyle that everything was pretty much fine. I think we may have acquired another interested ally.

Kenny is far from stupid - and he's probably happy to keep interest onair in a subject that gets listeners and gets a good amount of reaction from the public. Judging from his comments he had more than the average amount of contact from interested people prior to the interview. Might be worth some of us submitting a few comments (and thanks) again now that the deed is done/started.

Paddy20

Suggestion,

Pat seemed too handle Ms Doyle fairly firmly and did seem to appreciate the demand for affordable fixed rate internet services, both Broadband and ordinary 56k dial up packages.

This might be an opportune time for the IOFFL Committee to suggest to Pat that a spot of time on the Late Late show on this unfinished issue! would now be appropriate in the interest of fair play and establishing a "Level playing field" for all internet users here in the Republic.

I seem to remember suggesting this once before!, and was shot down in flames as a dreamer.

Remember, it is common practise for interesting subjects/ socio -economic issues such as this which was left hanging at the end of todays show, to be followed up with a live audience participation slot on the Late Late?. What is it there for if not exactly this??.

How about it this time, IOFFL Committee - Bite the bullet and see!.

Yours,

paddy20

Paddy20

Message to, Canadian & pork99,

RE:- "Sir Anthony O Reilly"?,

Have you had a look at what appears on - Sir Anthony O Reilly - if you simply type his name in to the search engine "Google"!.

The pages of information on - him and his (Circle) is frightening!.

Talk about - Power brokers united - say no more. Just have a good look.

I am in shock again.

Good Luck, its a real "Eye opener" in many respects.

See you,

paddy20:cool:

DonegalMan

Originally posted by hmmm
Her ranting on about nonexistant FWA in Letterkenny should be quoted to her in foot tall letters on placards outside her window in the Irish Life building.

Not to forget her suggestion that I should "talk to the telco's".



Martin Harran

DonegalMan

Originally posted by Muck
Since when ...did Eircom and Esat offer any services in Derry

In fairness, that was an obvious slip of the tongue.

Whilst I agree with most people here that she did a dreadful interview, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that there are genuine restrictions on what she and can and cannot do - simply replacing her with someone else would not change this; we must keep presssure on to make sure that the new commisssion is given wider, more proactive powers.

Couple of points in the interview that I thought were good:

1) At the start:

"Pat: Now, the issue that seems to dominate some of the calls we’ve got is about the Internet, why it’s so expensive to get on the Internet in Ireland.

Etain: Okay, there is a number of points I’d like to make here… I’m sure your callers are looking for is a flatrate service… "

The fact that as soon as the Internet was mentioned, she started talking about flat rate shows the job that IOFFL has done in putting it at the top of the agenda.


2) About Eircom

"Pat: And why doesn’t Eircom offer a service like this, I mean if there’s money to be made, I mean the lines are lying idle, it actually doesn’t cost a huge amount in terms of the electricity bill to deliver this kind of service into peoples homes.

Etain: Well, I suggest you bring in somebody from Eircom and ask them those kind of questions…"

You have to allow the for the 'double speak' that public servants have to use - the fact that she made no attempt to defend Eircom is the equivalent of "Because I think they're a bunch of f***ers but my public position doesn't allow me to say so"

Martin

Dangger

The interview was a shocker!

But as previously stated it underscores their continued powerlessness.

What Pat Kenny simply illustrated was, despite all she said her office had done at the end of the day the consumers (who they have a remit to protect by "ensuring the telecommunications market place is free from monopolistici practices") have seen no benefit and continue to suffer from lack of services and high pricing. He used this tact many times throughout the interview to cut through the spin and waffle, to great effect.

spongebob

1. Etain lacked any sense of what she is at...and has been for 5 years now. Somebody with a sense of purpose can say things like 'we set out to' or 'we decided' there are no action words in her excuses, its all ( I paraphrase) 'we can't' 'we may soon but can't now' 'we'll get a report off a consultant''

2. PK (until today) displayed no in depth knowledge of the issue behind the dismal state of data connectivity in Ireland. Etain thought she was gonna make another conference speech. He's fairly rolling now!

3. PK lit into her about her record as a regulator, she was on the back foot straight away. All her successes were (mainly) in 1998/9 when she got CPS off the ground smartly. Since then? Nothing!

Now to her own words.

Thanks Eircomtribunal For The Transcript

Pat: How does that work by the way? UTV is based in Northern Ireland. Do you have control over them?

Etain: UTV is.. I mean anybody can come into Ireland and get the opportunity to provide telecommunications…

Pat: But are you regulating…

Etain: They are operating through a company that is regulated by the office.

(She remembered that Nevada are licenced by her back there)

This next bit is classic!

Pat: We’re way behind, aren’t we? There are countries which are ahead of us…

Etain: ...yes…

Pat: …that if you were to list them out you’d say “Oh well, they are just emerging from the Eastern block, they’ve got to be third world in terms of telecoms” and then you find they are ahead of us...

Etain: ...yes…

Pat: Estonia.

Etain: …yes, it is the case. Then, when you take a OECD table that is produced which deals only with cable modems and only with DSL technology… erm… that we don’t have as many of those rolled out as elsewhere, and if you take… erm… but I have no reason to believe that we shan’t catch up on that and indeed go ahead..

Pat: Why are we so slow?

Etain: We’ve done some research into this…

Catch up on what?
Research into what?

We are receding into the distance behind Estonia among others too numerous to mention. Its almost too late Etain

Jump please....go graciously. You could not chair a wet paper bag, the manner of your leaving and all that.

M

PiE

Originally posted by DonegalMan
we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that there are genuine restrictions on what she and can and cannot do - simply replacing her with someone else would not change this

Maybe if she was replaced by someone with a bloody spine it might! She goes on and on about not having any power but I don't remember the last time she came here asking us to support her in her efforts to get the government to increase her ability to regulate.