Esat Launch NetSmart

Dangger

Esat BT to launch evenings and weekends Internet Package

Esat BT today announced plans to launch NetSmart, Ireland's newest Internet access product. NetSmart provides a number of monthly, bundled subscription-based Internet options, targeted at residential dial-up users looking for better value from their online costs. This is an Internet-only package, and users are not obliged to take Esat BT telephony services and there is no sign up fee.

NetSmart will be made available through Ireland On-Line (IOL), the Internet service provider within the Esat BT group.

Three subscription packages are available to choose from, covering light, medium and heavy Internet users as follows:

NetSmart 40 @ €15 per month provides users with 40 hours of Internet access per month during evenings and weekends. This is equivalent to 15 free hours per month compared to Ireland On-Line's standard Internet access rates.

NetSmart 80 @ €25 per month provides users with 80 hours of Internet access per month during evenings and weekends. This is equivalent to 38 free hours per month compared to Ireland on-Line's standard Internet access rates.

NetSmart 120 @ €30 per month provides users with 120 hours of Internet access per month during evenings and weekends. This is equivalent to 70 free hours per month compared to Ireland on-Line's standard Internet access rates.

On-line usage outside the NetSmart monthly minute allowance or during peak daytime periods will automatically switch to standard IOL rates.

Single channel (64k) ISDN is also supported.

MDR

uh-oh ... I smell competition in the air, surely this is not the Ireland we know and love ... ?

pete

They can shove it.

ESAT can thank their accounts department for losing them a customer.

fabien

Is Bill also going to show up on this board? I'm sure we all have a few questions for him, like, if you can do this deal now, why didn't you so it first time around???
Maybe it could even be better still? Will you support 128k ISDN for the price of a local call on the second channel?

Somehow I'm doubtful about his or even ESAT's appearance on this board...I wonder why?

Bard

By any chance, could the IOFFL committee or anyone else tell us if Esat BT are providing existing IOL NoLimits users with the option of updating their NoLimits account to one of the NetSmart account options?

spongebob

seems to me these deals are mainly worse than nolimits....which reputedly allows 100 hours a month nowadays, quietly, no disconnects or 'letters'

Could someone compare the 3 new packages with nolimits?

M

Bard

Originally posted by Muck
seems to me these deals are mainly worse than nolimits....which reputedly allows 100 hours a month nowadays, quietly, no disconnects or 'letters'

Could someone compare the 3 new packages with nolimits?

M

seems to me that if you use 40 hours or less per month, then this is a better deal than NoLimits, if you use 80 hours or less per month then this is still (marginally) a better deal, and if you use over 80 hours then NoLimits may be a better deal.

I don't know where you're getting this "100 hours a month" from for NoLimits. NoLimits didn't have a time cap applied. There was talk of them applying a cap of 75 hours but this never materialised.

NoLimits isn't an option for someone who isn't already signed up to it, and with Esat BT releasing a product along these lines, I wouldn't be surprised if they were to announce the cancellation of the NoLimits service at some stage in the near future.

spongebob

If u are STILL on no limits AND use 80 hours a month or more then stay where you are.

Come here Bill so we can ask you quastions......or else send on that dennis fella.

M

Dustaz

Looks like some frantic re-packaging went on over the weekend

Seems like a bit of geniune competition for utv (for the lesser user anyway)

Any word on disconnects? Or can you stay connected from 6pm to 8am?

Proves they were stalling all this time anyway.

Kevok

Gonna stick with UTVip myself, infamous letter aside if they could've launched with this kind of package in the first place, why didn't they?

Esat, although your praises are sung by some, in many ways you're no better than Eircom.

Aggie

Jeeeez, what a bunch of sad cynics. MOVE ON for God's sake. No Limits was almost 2 years ago, and the environment was very, very different then i.e. interconnect rates have improved only recently which determines what us end-users get charged. The good news is that prices are coming down, even in a week we've seen UTVip (lots of strings attached) and Esat BT all push things in the right direction. Reaitly is that FRIACO won't happen until eircom provide the UTV's and Esat's with the right wholesale prices, so let's get real here and not blame the alternative operators for taking the initiatve. What about eircom ? Very nieve of They've not budged an inch.

Is nobody concerned about having to give UTV their phone business too ? It's a TV company for Gods sake, not a phone company, and their rates are no great shakes when you add in eircom/Esat BT discounts.

spongebob

but unlike the UTV crew you only bEETch yourself and warble about Eshat voice rates wehn we are talking about their Internet rates.

Please identify yourself clearly if you want to be taken seriously. I think you are PR fluff myself and will always treat you accordingly.

M

Kevok

Erm, have you looked at the telephony pricing of UTV? It's much cheaper than Eircom. Off peak per minute is 0.95 cent, with Eircom its 1.26cent i think.

Peak: UTV = 3.8cent per minute; Eircom = 5 or so cent per minute

So Yes! I have thought about having to give UTV my telephony business and i'm all for it thanks very much.*



*I am in no way employed or in any way affiliated with UTV or any respective partners. (except for the fact that I will soon be a customer)

Aggie

Oh Muck....I'm so devastated that you might not take me seriously !!

I'm an accountant with a small Irish company, mostly doing business nationally, a bit into the UK and Germany. We are 38 people, but use Internet and phone services extensively. Believe it or not Muck, we're not all Internet anoraks - some of use do actually use the phone. If you're running up voice call charges of €5,000 per month, believe me, you get very interested in those rates. I've done the sums, and for our business Esat's rates are the best - simple as that. I have no connectionss with the company other than as a customers of SOME services.

Muck - I think you're a man (person ?) with too much time on your hands. I'm only interested in nailing real info on what's best value out there, and have no desire to get into a pathetic ding-dong with you, so let's stick to the subject at hand, i.e. what's the best deal out there. Just seems to me that eircom have made no effort whatsoever to provide us or other Irish operators with any sort of compelling offer - DSL is a case in point, which would be the ideal fix for our company. Esat's new packages look ok for home users, but what we all want is FRIACO. Fact is that until eircom create a wholesale product for UTVip, Nevada, Esat or whomever, we'll have to make do with these interim offers.

Bard

Originally posted by Muck
but unlike the UTV crew you only bEETch yourself and warble about Eshat voice rates wehn we are talking about their Internet rates.

Please identify yourself clearly if you want to be taken seriously. I think you are PR fluff myself and will always treat you accordingly.

M

and you bitch about other users and warble on as if your what you say is gospel.

Please treat the other users with a bit more respect if YOU want to be taken seriously.

I suggest you not judge people so harshly and consider the possibility that you're not always right.

spongebob

Precisely Thus.

,,you not judge people so harshly and consider the possibility that you're not always right

Naturally I am not.

Aggie came back with a most coherent outline argument just there for using esat fro voice during office hours when the rest of the Irish net is discussing off peak bundles for data. I fail to see the overlap at all so I do. That may be because I am not right.

€5000 euro spend a month does get you funky discounts all right.

Like with like pls Aggie, lash a spreadsheet in as an attachment to illustrate the point you are making about esat rates.

More!

M

strat

nice wan esat, making a desperate grap when you smell competition :rolleyes:

at lease it shows they have some clue to whats going on around them, im tempted as i get a much better ping when i dial into my local 'ocean' numebr

nahdoic

Ehm I really don't think any of these new products from Esat or UTVip are aimed at the business market. It's off-peak internet usage only. Pretty useless for any business.

But UTVip kicks the residential internet market's ass so hard, it ain't even funny.

- 150 hours for 29.99 a month

- 30 hour for 10.99 a month

- no forced disconnects

- the Managing Director interacts quickly with customers on the Ireland Offline Forum

- they just rock

PiE

Eh? Isn't there a 2hr cut off with UTVip? Or did they change that just for us?

[edit]
Whoops, just read the other thread, yay! I Love UTV.
[/edit]

keithwhir

This is currently set at 2 hours. In order to keep the cost of service lower for everyone, we may implement a session timeout. This is in order to deal with customers who stay connected for very long periods, often inadvertently. You will be able to reconnect immediately again.


yaaaaaaaaa , its still on the site , did they change it ??????

Rags

Ya utv changed it from 2 hour cut off to 12hours now.

Well I guess gotta give esat some credit even tho I hate them nearly as much as eircom. Least they kinda trying. But lets not kid ourselves they would of given us a ****ty offer until they saw utvs offer and they changed it. I see people making out that u have to change to utv for ur phone a bad thing but utvs rates are cheaper . Oh and esat wont be supporting dual isdn either.

spongebob

and now they are being groovy about 1 channel.... I see both their points about 2 channels (accounting nightmares).

whats the no-limits connection , 56k or isdn or either.... seeing as I asked Bard for some comparative analysis earlier in this thread between the different eShat options.

M

Smiley

Personally, I am delighted with this... whereas I do appreciate UTV for making the offer they're making, I am very happy with Esat home phone and was not pleased about the prospect of having to change to UTV. Now I won't.

UTV may compare very well with Eircon on the home phone front, but Esat is even better.

Everyone's circumstances are different... I happen to find Esat's 32-county local call rate an absolute boon for both my husband, who calls all over the country for his work, and me - I call the North frequently.

So YAY to Esat. I'll take their 120 hours at €30 yoyos per month and thank you very much indeed.


At least until a 24/7 deal comes along.

Ronan|Raven

I was always more or less going to have to stay with the esat package as the line that I use in the evenings/weekends for my net access is used heavily during the day for phone calls. Seeing as esat do offer a cheaper range of call prices than utv itd have been pointless changing over (for the people who use the voice calls) now at least esat have upped the package to 120 hours which will do me grand

Hopefully now with all the "competition" things will be on the up for us irish net users lord knows they couldnt get any worse..... could they ?!

Stonemason

In an earlier post i remember someone (soz cant remember who)saying that UTV would make money on lesser users thus covering the expense of the heavier users. Now Esat comes along with a service that may take the lesser users away from UTV which in theory could cause UTV to lose money.
I cant help feel that though its nice to see competion finally starting to emerge this move by esat is aimed at stealing UTV,s thunder and also putting their business model at risk!. If i were in competion with another company id do the same.

Simple maths says that €30 for 120hrs (esat) against €29.99 for 150hrs(UTV) that esat aims to take the lower users market as UTV dont have the same sliding scale.

BoneCollector

Regardless of whos doing what..
its abvious that UTV package is a lot better for internet users and has already caused esat to rethinks its product launch tarrifs.

I would say we should all go to Utv...
it will make ercom and esate take note and realise where the real demand lays...

utv hits both esat and ercom cos it means you go over to both internet and telephony leaving erocom and esat hanging..

I know as soon as my nolimits account reaches the end of the month i will be droping it in favor of UTV as a mark of support for both utv and internet users of ireland/offline

Supercell

As one of the many thousands that got the now infamous snl letters a year or so ago that booted me off that service...ESAT can go take a flying leap.

That kind of shoddy treatment is not easily forgottin...nevermind the several months of billing for the service they kicked me of off after that....

Esat will never EVER get another red cent off me (unless they offer broadband @ reasonable pricing..read uk style pricing ) after what they did.

Right now they seem to be reacting to UTV Internets brave stance in the face of Eircom belligerence...frankly..they had a good model in the first place and they blew it..why on earth should anyone trust them now?

UTV internet have been consistant for the last few years in the sense that they made no wild promises and always stated their desire to have a flat rate or at least semi flat rate service in the future, Esat claimed to offer something called "no limits" and then banned the people who used its without limits.....

UTVinternet is saying up front honestly.that they are operating in a market with limits..however they are offering a package that the vast majority of people can probably use very happily in the terms of the service.

Yes i'm a bitter ex SNL'R..ex ESAT customer..and only extraordinary circumstances (cheap broadband) will ever bring me back into their fold..so all i can say is....

If you are trying to make your mind up between UTV Internet and Esat..please (think of the children!!) go with UTV Internet, this is a company that has always been honest with the Irish internet user and laid their cards on the table in a fair and just way....frankly..Esat are a shower of....£"%$£%$£ who promised the earth and delivered a dung heap. (IMHO)

Rags

Agree with the last 2 posters 100% , couldnt of said it better myself

I rang esat before utv announced their product and I see I still havent got a application form , well it doesnt matter now since I signed to utv. But it just shows their incompentence. All of you signing up to esat, good luck. YOU'LL NEED IT.

Rags

esat should give the people who were cut off from their "No Limits" service 2 months free service if they really wanna prove they have changed. Then maybe people like me who hate em cause of it might think differently. :rolleyes:

dahamsta

Excellent suggestions Rags. It wouldn't change my mind immediately, but I'm sure some members that were dissed back then would appreciate it, and it would be a start. How about it Esat?

adam

leeroybrown

My big problem with all this is that you can be pretty sure that if one group didn't offer a new better package the rest would stick to the status quo.

Eircom are a massive bumbling dinosaur of a company but their competitors are really not all that much better. At the end of the day their market shares don't really change that much and they don't bother to serve the customer properly (and no-one bothers to keep them in check, present IOFFL company excluded of course). Its all business at the end of the day.

frea

Hi

Spoke with Esat's Customer Care today enquiring about NetSmart. They told me that the service isnt available (yet) and they dont have a date for when it will.

Wasnt this launched recently ???

David C

I notice the reference to the service was removed on Monday from their site:

http://www.esatbt.com/esatcom/homepage/residential/bt_residential_internet.htm

The page is still online although with the old prices:
http://www.esatbt.com/esatcom/homepage/residential/bt_residential_internet/residential_internet_netsmart.htm

I would asume they are going to revise the prices for a third time to compete with UTVIP's latest offerings and changes.. The launch of UTVIP Lite and the extention of the cut off period to 12hrs have taken away Esat's advantages..

Dangger

My big problem with all this is that you can be pretty sure that if one group didn't offer a new better package the rest would stick to the status quo.

Couldn't agree more leeroybrown.

Its always been the ISP's who have put pressure onthe telcos to jump through the hoops at the end of the day. Looking to the UK it was Freeserve, AOL etc. who raised the anté. We've been starved of any competition for so long that the dinosaur telco's themselves have stagnated in their product development and with no one to rattle a sabre at the right people they have managed to keep the status quo.

Esat's former management certainly seemed to play this way. With a new owner and new management (and of course all the knowledge of Eircom's tactics as they are the incumbent in a diferent market, lest we forget) EsatBT do seem to be *trying* to open the way for change. But by their slow manouvering and the belief that they could still cream off the market (look how netsmart's pricing changed in the space of a few days) they stand to be burnt by UTV's reaction to a true indication of product demand.

So we finally, (years overdue) have a healthy development that stands to benefit the consumer for a change!

Watch how the mammoth Eircom will react. They see no need to move quickly, they already have a direct line into every home to allow the to claw back churners with sales spiel and marketing drivel.

Most people buying computers in the run up to Christmas won't dream of tampering with the ISP offering bundled with their new machine. We're not all technically minded! This is the rumoured reaction we are to see from Eircom - an introduction of a bundled partial flat rate product in October with Dell desktops! Sure that will keep everyone happy.

During my meeting with Phil Nolan of Eircom last July he was quick to point out that the low ownership of PC's in Ireland was a greater concern to Eircom than broadband! If there are not enough machines out there there is not enough demand. This is the never ending spin from such a fat cat company. Would you believe it guys that some people will buy computers when they can get braodband connectivity? But thats the chicken and egg thing again isn't it?

Eircom have got problems, I cannot see how long they can continue with current staff figures and keep Ireland Inc in the dark ages of Internet usages. One possibility that has come to my mind (not the opinion of IOFFL) is that Eircom have been able to buy time and lobby effectively with the threat of huge job losses. There is nothing like the threat of 3,000 plus job cuts at Ireland's telecom operator to keep the regulator at bay with government help. How bleak would the economy look with such an announcment. It would not be as a result of the tech downturn
but would be spun that way. Well they are hardly going to blame it on IOFFL!

BoneCollector

I would asume they are going to revise the prices for a third time to compete with UTVIP's latest offerings and changes.. The launch of UTVIP Lite and the extention of the cut off period to 12hrs have taken away Esat's advantages..

Well we have all being crying out for some form of effective protest that would make eircom and esat take note.. and leave a great big hole in there market share.

Well here you have it...

We all! move to UTV regardless of what they offer
that should be effective enough protest and get them both to take the internet user as a serious commodity.

tell as many people as u can about UTV and get them all on it and lets all effect change on this front.

hmmm

Originally posted by Dangger
But by their slow manouvering and the belief that they could still cream off the market (look how netsmart's pricing changed in the space of a few days) they stand to be burnt by UTV's reaction to a true indication of product demand.

That's a very good point. It emphasises a point made in here by Scott Taunton in an earlier thread where he offhand mentioned Esats margins. Nothing like a nearly 50% improvement in a product offering to make customers question what the profit margin actually was.

One thing I don't necessarily agree about is the takeup Eircom will find if they offer less of a service. Most of the people here are relatively technical (at least, they understand the issues). I know in my case I continuously get asked by family and friends how they should be getting onto the net, and I imagine the rest of us get the same. It's very easy to say "UTV" don't touch Eircom. What I would like is a couple of CDs, it might be in UTV's interest to agree a tie up with some chain in the Republic that could be used to distribute (xtravision, spar, whatever).

SkepticOne

Originally posted by hmmm

That's a very good point. It emphasises a point made in here by Scott Taunton in an earlier thread where he offhand mentioned Esats margins. Nothing like a nearly 50% improvement in a product offering to make customers question what the profit margin actually was.

This would depend on the wholesale rate got from Eircom. Hitherto, the cheapest per-minute offerings were the 1891 services. The per-minute wholesale rate associated with this is: 0.561224 cents / minute according to Eircom's latest RIO. Under this wholesale rate, if you use 150 hours (the max), UTV must pay Eircom around 50 euros ex VAT. So Eircom would still benefit greatly from UTV's new scheme since hours online will increase.

I'm not sure, though, what arrangement UTV have with Eircom. It may be that recent changes to Eircom's RIO may have enabled both the UTV and the ESAT offerings.

Eircom's wholesale pricelist can be accessed here (pdf).

Stonemason

As said above Eircon with a mix of cd,s on virtually every counter and those bloody mouse adverts have planted in the minds of the less well informed that there is only one ISP.That said UTV internet is presumably a part of UTV telly group is it possible they could use this Stronger media position to level the playing field i.e. surely they could use their own TV network to advertise their new product to the max ?.I personal will be steering as many people towards UTV through my business as possible.

Ruu_Old

i was told that Netsmart isnt starting until Sept 20th, is that right? thanks

vampyre

yes Ruu that is sort of right. the amended forms came in today and may be sent out to those who have already asked, i don't know but ring up and make noise. the cds comein on Monday allegedly so if our luck is in and they process the request we may be connected before the 20th but that is the offical date.

Mossy Monk

i got the form for the Esat BT thing last week but i had decided to go for the UTV deal instead. i hadn't ordered either but my mother filled in the Esat BT form and sent it off in the post this morning. can i cancel before it officially starts?

Tellox

i cant see why some people could choose esat over utv atm. utv-i offer 30 extra hours for the same price,and I dont beleive utv went cutting off a bunch of high-end users either.

Ruu_Old

im only choosing Esat because i dont have to change telephonys to UTVi..ive been chucked around by them too, but i just forget it, and move on

Dun

Originally posted by Ruu
im only choosing Esat because i dont have to change telephonys to UTVi..ive been chucked around by them too, but i just forget it, and move on

Ditto here, got booted off SNL and am only going back to Esat cause I don't want to merge it with the phone bill.

Also, although everyone else only has praise for the UTV internet pay-as-you-go service, I always found that, even though I connected at 48 or 49.2 constantly, after a few minutes nothing would come in - it just flatlined completely. Didn't happen with Eircom/IOL though.

I am happy that they are there though - getting more hours for cheaper now from Esat

OHP

I have to say that I have tried UTV for just over 5 hours now and I'm realy dissapointed Surfing/Downloads and Game play are Totally Slower than Oceanfree. Compaired to Eircon ok its fine. But not a lot better. The thing is though I use my connection for work and just took time out to have some fun tonight seeing what UTV would be like. To be honest so far im not impressed. Oceanfree wins hands down. If anyone wants tracerts Pings etc. i have loads . But i have to say im really dissapointed

OHP

Matt Simis

Originally posted by OHP
I have to say that I have tried UTV for just over 5 hours now and I'm realy dissapointed Surfing/Downloads and Game play are Totally Slower than Oceanfree. Compaired to Eircon ok its fine. But not a lot better.,
<snipped>. But i have to say im really dissapointed

OHP

So your saying its as good as Eircom, not better than Oceanfree. Well, whats the problem then? Why did you assume it would be the fastest anyhow? AFAIK, Oceanfree is the fastest as their network has the least load, UTV and Eircom are not in that position.



Matt

Dustaz

Originally posted by OHP
I have to say that I have tried UTV for just over 5 hours now and I'm realy dissapointed Surfing/Downloads and Game play are Totally Slower than Oceanfree. Compaired to Eircon ok its fine. But not a lot better. The thing is though I use my connection for work and just took time out to have some fun tonight seeing what UTV would be like. To be honest so far im not impressed. Oceanfree wins hands down. If anyone wants tracerts Pings etc. i have loads . But i have to say im really dissapointed

OHP

Are you 56k or isdn?

If your 56k there cant be that much difference in surfing/download time surely.

If your ISDN, the same applies. The only application where speed really IS of the essence is gaming. Why not dial up oceanfree for those clan matches where your ping has to be as low as possible and use UTV for your work stuff.

edt: Just realised this is the esat thread...getting confused... Answer still applicable to both.

If you dont like the pings you get on one service or the other, dont get it. Simple.

Boston

I find it funny that one company gets so much support for there "flat rate" service and another doesn't...

O hold on wait a minute, no I don't.

UTV provided a great service when I was with them, they are smart people and not arrogant pigs, they realize they need us more then we really need them and have acted accordingly,

Esat on the other hand are a bunch of Bombay pig savages,

In closing UTV good, Esat Bad

Dustaz

^^^^^^^^^

Bostons Triumphant return to the Ioffl board

voyager

has anyone got info on this offer as i have sent them at least 3 e-mails and not one reply yet,i would go with utv but have not got access to direct debit method of payment,manythanks,voyager.

Stonemason

I typed in esat-bt netsmart offer into google and only got this site looks intresting but im to tired and pished to read.

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/ispnews/archives2002/arc2.shtml