Do you think Irish should be a compulsory school subject?

ronano

Originally posted by luckat

If you want Irish people to become a kind of English suburb with a faint memory that once we were a nation, get rid of your language. If you value your culture, your heritage and your people, learn Irish, learn about Irish culture, speak the language and teach it to your children.

It's your choice.

Could you quit with the hyperbole ?

We are a nation and have our own laws/culture and national idenity and even if they made irish optional,we we still be a nation with these things. I find it extremely insulting that you imply that if we let the langauge die we would lose these things and become merely just an extension of britain, we have managed to keep our idenity in a changing and more generic world . I know if they ever did make it optional that there would be a big drop off and in truth i value the langauge so i'd rather it be reformed and maybe just to junior cert.

Vader

I totally disagree.
Unless you do honours Irish for the leaving cert you will never learn enough to be able to use it full time. Youd be surprised at how valuable the oral exams are. At Juniour cert level I could read Irish of any description in Faoinse or Mahogony gaspipe but its only after doing the leaving that I feel comfortable enough to speak it.

While our native culture is not totally dependant on the language there are interesting studies on how language impacts on ppls personalities. Ppl dont speak a certain way because they think a certain way, rather they think a certain way because they speak a certain way. (I will try and find the studies on this and post a link.) This shows a remarkable importance of irish as part of the Irish persona.

Gleanndún

this is just as i was saying earlier, that language and culture are inextricable: to fully understand a language you must fully understand the culture behind it; to learn a culture you must first learn the language

SantaHoe

It should be mandatory for everyone except for the people who hate it with a passion.
The Irish language just has no relevance for some people and if they don't want to learn it - they won't... no matter how "compulsory" it is.

Personally I couldn't be arsed with it... I just picked up enough to get me through school and have happily forgotten almost every word.
In all the years since I finished school I haven't found the need nor want to use the language.

I'm not opposed to the Irish language per-se, I think it's nice that we have a little-known language we can use to make fun of forigners with without them knowing.

For most of the people I know, you only begin to value it when you get older and you've seen how big the world is... but after all the years of having it forced on me, the only memories I have of learning Irish are negetive.

Gleanndún

its so sad that that has bn ur experience, im very sorry 4 u:(

country_gurl

i can't believe i'm writing this... cause theres nothing i dread more than going into a boring class of Irish. But I'm proud that i can hold a basic convo in Irish. It's our national language and its nice when someone starts speaking to u in irish u can understand and speak back in either irish or english. I come from kilkenny... so its not very often that it happens. I also do French and I hate it can't stand it... but if i want to get into college i need a foreign language... but why... ? Shouldnt irish be sufficient enough? Why should you be forced into taking on a foreign language just so you can further your education? I'll never use French again, prob not even if i was on death row. French haunts me in my dreams, the tenses, the grammer everything. I'd choose Irish any day, while writing this the examiner is probably failing me over my irish oral examination, but i enjoy the language so why can't i use it for entry to college? It should be optional but it also should be recognised as a language, maybe if it was people might take more interest in it and get entry to college instead of failing french or german. Slán go foill
sorry if anyones said this... but there was 2 many posts to read thru

Vader

it may have had a bigger impact on you than you realize.
Learning languages from an early age has huge effects on your powers of reasoning.
Granted you might say well then lets learn french, we can use that.

But then your missing the point. If with the same ammount of effort you would be satisfied with your french enough to use it then why not use irish.

I live in laois. I can get along fine without using irish in my day to day life, but since I have it why not use it. Its a funny habit I have, I never through away anything I pay for.:dunno:

Most ppl might not care about our culture, I dont know what exactly they dont like.
I love the GAA with a passion, I am a member of camross CCE, and use little irish sentences in my day to day life. I used to include them in my posts regardless of what board I was on but my sprlling is terrible, especially when I type fast so I just ended up insulting the language.

Im not a member of conradh na gaeilge but I colected for them on St Pads.

But iM GETTING VEvy OFF POINT HERE.
Irish isnt just an excuse for kids to get their first shift in the gaeltacht or a summer camp, its not just about a better understanding of irish litriure, or the faculty of thought it breeds. Heck its not even about making fun oy yanks. Its pride, its all those things mentioned above and more, its remaining ourselves when there is icredible pressure on us to conform to the american culture or the normal or cool way of life.

Its about understanding the past so we can prepare for the future and chose a path that suits us

Vader

I always thought you needed Irish, Eng, Math and a foreign language to go to a University

You can get into ITs without a foreign lang

SantaHoe

Originally posted by Gleanndún
its so sad that that has bn ur experience, im very sorry 4 u:(

Sorry I didn't get that, you'll have to speak English and not crazy txt lngwg
And hey, don't feel sorry for me - I couldn't give a flying feic.... don't need it, don't use it, don't want it.

mhairesa

shilim go bhfuil sé an tabhachtach go mbeidh gaeilge a mhunadh i scoileanna.

country_gurl

yeah but the i.t.'s dont always have the same courses. irish shud be seen as a foreign language so that ppl can choose whether to do irish or french and still have access to universitys.

simu

Originally posted by mhairesa
shilim go bhfuil sé an tabhachtach go mbeidh gaeilge a mhunadh i scoileanna.

Mise leis. Ach ba chóir go mbeadh an cúrsa gnáthleibhéil bunaithe ar chumarsáid sa teanga labhartha agus gan litríocht a mhúineadh ach dos na daoine a dhéanann an t-árdleibhéal mar is dócha go mbíonn Gaeilge líofa ag an gcuid is mó dóibh sin cheanna féin.

GuanYin

Ní dóigh liom go bhfuil gaelige scriofá comh-tabhactach sin, ach bá choir dóibh an chúrsa a bhunú ar gaelige labharthá agus tuiscint ar nós an curse francais nó gearmáinais.

I mo thúraim beidh sé níos fearr an chúrsa a coimead mar bún-abhar (core subject) ach gan gá leis chun dul go dti ollscoil.

Gleanndún

Originally posted by country_gurl
I also do French and I hate it can't stand it... but if i want to get into college i need a foreign language... but why... ? Shouldnt irish be sufficient enough? Why should you be forced into taking on a foreign language just so you can further your education?... but i enjoy the language so why can't i use it for entry to college? It should be optional but it also should be recognised as a language, maybe if it was people might take more interest in it and get entry to college instead of failing french or german. Slán go foill

it counts if u go 2 another country, i.e. uk, us, australia, &c. (just in case ur not comfy w ur french;)) u could come 2 cali 4 university, cali rox!:D

Originally posted by Vader
But iM GETTING VEvy OFF POINT HERE.
Irish isnt just an excuse for kids to get their first shift in the gaeltacht or a summer camp, its not just about a better understanding of irish litriure, or the faculty of thought it breeds. Heck its not even about making fun oy yanks. Its pride, its all those things mentioned above and more, its remaining ourselves when there is icredible pressure on us to conform to the american culture or the normal or cool way of life.

Its about understanding the past so we can prepare for the future and chose a path that suits us

look at wuts happening in japan, theyre trying 2 b more like the us, and they r, in all the gross and terrible ways (e.g. people sooting children fulla holes, the collapse of family structure n such:dunno: )

Vader

Originally posted by Gleanndún

look at wuts happening in japan, theyre trying 2 b more like the us, and they r, in all the gross and terrible ways (e.g. people sooting children fulla holes, the collapse of family structure n such:dunno:)

whos us? do you mean more like the US of A?

I dont think that thats the way we are at all, drive by shootings, substace abuse, promiscuous teens, tabloid televiosion agus le leithéid that are symbols of "western civilisation" are not as common as ppl think and more a product of american civilisation than of Irish or european.

(No Im not denying for a minute that these problems dont exist in Ireland, just not in the extent they do in america and elsewhere, thus that they are not part of our culture, but part of the american culture that is spreading around the world at the moment)

country_gurl

"(No Im not denying for a minute that these problems dont exist in Ireland, just not in the extent they do in america and elsewhere, thus that they are not part of our culture, but part of the american culture that is spreading around the world at the moment) [/B][/QUOTE]

I could have picked up ur msg wrong so i apologise if i did,
but of course there is going to be more in america than here they are bout 10 times bigger than us if not more and therefore there is more in america than there is in ireland. I'd say if you broke it down, ireland is just as bad, just look at the shootings this weekend and nearly every other weekend. I remember when i was smaller it was a big shock when a shooting happened, now people just shrug it off after giving it 2 mins thought. Anyway ireland is our language we should be proud, and those we don't want to speak it don't bother... but wouldn't it be nice to say that you have a unique language... a bit strange i grant u but unique all the same. Sin é

Vader

what I was trying to say was that the decline in ireland, ie that shootings arnt such a shock anymore, is a result of the result of the increasing american influence on our culture

Gleanndún

i said THE us, THE us, i dont use caps, sorry:o i dont kno nething about the status of such things in ireland, but i kno its really bad here (THE us) and its getting very bad in japan, in accordance with their westernization (used 2 b almost inextant:()

Vader

sorry i missed the "THE":o

Gleanndún

all g:p

C.Joyce

Just listen to this tool

---

(stecull)

Hello all,
I have to say that I hated the Irish language in school, with a passion.
I failed in the leaving, and believe me this does not bother me in the slightest. I resented the fact that I HAD to learn this dead language. And it is a dead language, If your not a) fanatic, b) a teacher, or c) a Garda when will you ever use it?
The Gardai only need it because its a criminals right to be addressed in Irish.
The teachers need it because they have to teach it.
The Fanatics need it because, ????, well who knows, maybe they want to be arrested or something!

It's for this reason that I say that it should be an option in schools. And yes it should be removed as a prerequisite to entering into a job. We have a serious shortage of primary school teachers in the country, could this be part of the problem?????
I myself will never speak the language. Others might wish to and thats fair enough. But why should it be forced onto people?
Would it be fair if people from certain area were only thought how to carry out certain meaneal jobs (ie Cave cleaning) because it would help the economy or our heritage? Or would be fair to only teach someone in Irish, leaving them shut off from the rest of the world?

That's my 2 cents rant anyway!
Steve

---

Hoenestly like does anyone have pride in the country anymore???


Its our National Language
You hear people say " Why if German and French are optional, why isnt Irish??"

BECAUSE ITS OUR FKN NATIONAL LANGUAGE!!!!

How many German's do you hear saying " Why isnt German optional??"

Its because their bloody proud of their heritage and their language

This country needs to cop-on

Gaeilge abú

p.s Enda Kenny is a retard

Múinteoir

Your man that you quote above comes across as such an idiot, that pity, rather than anger or disappointment, is the only emotion he invokes in me TBH. It must be terrible to be so filled with such illogical hate. People like that are just laughable and are not worth the bother of arguing with.

conchubhar1

i despise the argument of its useless and i wont use it so why is it compulsary argument

i hated maths, have never used it since - but it was important..... same, for different reasons, with irish

C.Joyce

You make a great point Múinteoir
What i dont understand is. why is everyone saying, "oooo every teenager hates Irish". I am 15, just finished my Junior Cert and I feel very strongly about the subject.
Adults need to stop putting words and theories in our mouths

Hellm0 wrote: »

I dont mean to offend or insult,But remember,good arguments allways do....
Irish is slowing down ireland,If you take the 5 classes I do of irish per week,and replace them with maths or some other useful subject,I wouldnt have the difficulty with maths I do now.Plus I wouldnt be spending 240 pounds for grinds in irish.Ban it I say,Burn the books in the middle of the school!

I cant understand a) how closed minded some people are in this country and b) how stupid and irrational they are

Gaeilge go deo

C.Joyce

Vader wrote: »

But why make it compulsory? Try explaining the above to a teenager and all you'll get, is "ba cuma liom!". Nah but they all say, "OMG, youll never use it, and whats the point in maths when you can just use calcu;ators, why learn eng when you dont use it for txtn and whats the point in french when Im never goin to france."!

Thats the kind of thing I'm talking about

Redbhoy

Tell the People of Ireland that they're forbidden to speak Irish and see the language flourish shortly afterwards.

Why do we need Irish? Or French, German, History, Geography, Chemistry, Physics, Biology, Accounting, Business Studies etc etc!

KeyLimePie

I like how the poll is equally divided.

My lithuanian co-worker gave me a lecture on not knowing irish cause when lithunia was under the iron curtain and the russians made them speak russian they still kept their lithuanian..... so think about that.

dlofnep

Holy old thread batman?

Redbhoy

dlofnep wrote: »

Holy old thread batman?

An-greannmhar!

But I dont think this topic will die out anytime soon.

Greyfox

C.Joyce wrote: »

Just listen to this tool

---

(stecull)

Hello all,
I have to say that I hated the Irish language in school, with a passion.
I failed in the leaving, and believe me this does not bother me in the slightest. I resented the fact that I HAD to learn this dead language. And it is a dead language, If your not a) fanatic, b) a teacher, or c) a Garda when will you ever use it?
The Gardai only need it because its a criminals right to be addressed in Irish.
The teachers need it because they have to teach it.
The Fanatics need it because, ????, well who knows, maybe they want to be arrested or something!

It's for this reason that I say that it should be an option in schools. And yes it should be removed as a prerequisite to entering into a job. We have a serious shortage of primary school teachers in the country, could this be part of the problem?????
I myself will never speak the language. Others might wish to and thats fair enough. But why should it be forced onto people?
Would it be fair if people from certain area were only thought how to carry out certain meaneal jobs (ie Cave cleaning) because it would help the economy or our heritage? Or would be fair to only teach someone in Irish, leaving them shut off from the rest of the world?

That's my 2 cents rant anyway!
Steve

---

Hoenestly like does anyone have pride in the country anymore???


Its our National Language
You hear people say " Why if German and French are optional, why isnt Irish??"

BECAUSE ITS OUR FKN NATIONAL LANGUAGE!!!!

How many German's do you hear saying " Why isnt German optional??"

Its because their bloody proud of their heritage and their language

This country needs to cop-on

Gaeilge abú

p.s Enda Kenny is a retard

Well I hate to break the news to you but a lot of people feel exactly the same way as the guy your unfairly calling a tool, you have to accept the fact that because Irish was poorly thought in a lot of schools and the fact that it's useless to the vast majority of people after the leaving cert theirs understandably going to be a lot of people who hate our native language.

What I find really insulting is the people that seem to think that just because I hate our native language I don't have pride in my country....this s**** is what makes me really p***ed off!

I've a lot of pride in my country and would never live abroad, I follow the GAA and I've seen riverdance live. I loved history in school and studied it in college so know more about Irish history then the majority of people on boards. My point is to turn around and say somebody is less Irish because they don't love a language that's only spoken fluently by a small minority is utter nonsense.

Yes but for the Germans and French their language isn't useless to them after the Lcert and their language is used in many other countries. Theirs practical reasons for learning other subjects like English and Maths etc but THEIR WAS NO PRACTICAL REASON for me to have to learn Irish for the Lcert, I haven't heard anybody (besides tv) speaking fluent Irish in about 10 years anyway. I think it was good for me to learn History, Geography, Business, Science etc as these are part of understanding the world around you and besides religion and Irish I have found at least something in every other subject in school that was of some value to me in life.

Fair play to TG4 and I've nothing against anybody who loves the Irish language but for those who hate the Irish language with a burning passion like myself were entitled to have their opinion as well without people accusing us of not having pride in where were from. Irish been compulsory for everyone IS forcing part of our culture down peoples throats and I don't believe culture is something that should ever be forced on people.