Do you think Irish should be a compulsory school subject?

Bard

Testing out the "POST A POLL" option in vBulletin...

Question is:
"Do you think Irish should be a compulsory school subject?"

Answer Yes, No, Don't Know or Don't Care...

SantaHoe

I think hosting a poll like this on the Gaeilge board is a tad unfair, granted it's the most suitable board topic-wise, but I can't help feeling the results will be somewhat biased, based on the kind of people who are most interested in these boards.
(ie. Fluent Irish speakers who believe EVERYONE should have it rammed down their throat for the good of the nation, you only have to look at the other threads on this topic to see that)

Perhaps the After-Hours board would open the topic to a wider audience?
But I know you're not going to do that

Bard

to be perfectly honest, - I was just - as I said - trying out the 'create a poll' option in vBulletin. I wasn't expecting a huge response, I was just trying it out...

Volvagia

Even though your just trying the poll thingy out im gonna reply anyway. I believe that irish should be compulsory without a doubt! but a slightly different approach should be taken to get students more involved in the language and use it practicaly!

Stephen

Bard, care to reveal how one makes a poll?

Volvagia

i think its somewhere one the page where you post what ever you want to post?? (i think)

Digi_Tilmitt

I think Irish should be optional as some people have grave difficulty with it. The people who want to keep it alive would still do it and keep it alive. This would make people who didn't do Irish feel guilty and they would end up doin it anyway.

Irish will not die, despite being poked quite a lot.

Neil3030

Originally posted by Digi_Tilmitt
I think Irish should be optional as some people have grave difficulty with it. The people who want to keep it alive would still do it and keep it alive. This would make people who didn't do Irish feel guilty and they would end up doin it anyway.

Irish will not die, despite being poked quite a lot.

Well said. I am pro Irish but not in agreement with method in which it is thought. It is quite unpracticle and in need of reform. For instance after 3 years of learning French in Secondary School i was able to order a hotel room, write a passage about myself, describe my area etc etc etc. Had i of started Irsh from scratch in first year i'd both a) hate the language and b) be completely unable to speak it. Don't get me wrong i do believe that irish should be thought and it is a valuable asset to our national heritage but seriously, it's time for change.

Smaug

Fact of the matter is that its the worst taught subject in ireland regardless of the being teaching it,
I would absolutely love for irish to become the primary language of our fair isle but its NOT going to happen in our present situation, so by that basis alone as long as its taught as it is now it is not right to force peeps into a state exam where they havent got a hope in the nine hellls,
Of course there are those who will do well neway , but theres always one isnt there.

Digi_Tilmitt

Wah! I forgot to vote! Oh well, wasn't that important. Anyway more Chemistry less Language! (Copper!)

Bard

Wow...

at this juncture, we are EVEN... excluding the "DON'T CARE" votes (don't know why I included that option, really) ... it's 50/50.

Not quite what I expected.

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Originally posted by Neil3030

I am pro Irish but not in agreement with method in which it is thought. It is quite unpracticle and in need of reform. For instance after 3 years of learning French in Secondary School i was able to order a hotel room, write a passage about myself, describe my area etc etc etc. Had i of started Irsh from scratch in first year i'd both a) hate the language and b) be completely unable to speak it. Don't get me wrong i do believe that irish should be thought and it is a valuable asset to our national heritage but seriously, it's time for change.

You've stole my thunder almost verbatim:)

Well Said, its more of these kind of measured realistic views we need in the Dept. of Educ. Although my Irish is ceart go leor, I sometimes feel I know more about the Clann Uisnigh agus Na Fianna than as you pointed out some more practicle / useful knowledge of the language:(

Its fine to try and make the language "cooolll" outside of school and TG4 try to make it more relative but we need to have it taught as french or german and make it something you can and will use w/ more proficiencey and frequency!

Slán Tamall
A Chairde
Daithí Ó Stánduin aka ochto p

Bloody Drunkard

Being a Leavin Cert student doing honours Gaeilge I wish i didn't have to.

But out of sight is out of mind. Make it non-compulsory and it will be dropped in record numbers. This will mean the death of the language

stecull

Hello all,
I have to say that I hated the Irish language in school, with a passion.
I failed in the leaving, and believe me this does not bother me in the slightest. I resented the fact that I HAD to learn this dead language. And it is a dead language, If your not a) fanatic, b) a teacher, or c) a Garda when will you ever use it?
The Gardai only need it because its a criminals right to be addressed in Irish.
The teachers need it because they have to teach it.
The Fanatics need it because, ????, well who knows, maybe they want to be arrested or something!

It's for this reason that I say that it should be an option in schools. And yes it should be removed as a prerequisite to entering into a job. We have a serious shortage of primary school teachers in the country, could this be part of the problem?????
I myself will never speak the language. Others might wish to and thats fair enough. But why should it be forced onto people?
Would it be fair if people from certain area were only thought how to carry out certain meaneal jobs (ie Cave cleaning) because it would help the economy or our heritage? Or would be fair to only teach someone in Irish, leaving them shut off from the rest of the world?

That's my 2 cents rant anyway!
Steve

Lyconix

Irish should DEFINITELY be an option in secondary schools, without a doubt. Consider the usefulness of Irish in everyday life compared to other languages spoken by millions of people such as French and German... I mean, a lot of people want to keep the Irish culture alive and I can see what they're getting at, but I think that people who want to embrace the Irish culture and learn the language, and those that don't want to learn the language at all, should be given the choice. Myself, I'm against compulsory Irish in school since I find it difficult to learn languages and I feel no motivation to learn Irish since it will be of no use to me.

seamus

I think it should be compulsory up to third year, just so it doesn't die, and let's face it, you never learned anymore Irish after 3rd year. By then, you had been doing Irish for around 9-11 years, so if you werent good at it by then, you werent going to get any fúcking better!!!! I think that up to 3rd year, you're not really in a position to decide what you want to study, because IMHO, generally, anyone under the age of 16 can't fully see the consequences of their actions. That's why teenage preganancy rates drop off slighty around 17-18, and most people start smoking/taking drugs before they are 16. anyway that's off-topic.

Lyconix

No, I think that you should be able to decide whether or not you want to pursue Irish when you're at the very beginning of your second level education... that way you can pick whichever language you want and pursue it until the Leaving Cert, instead of doing Irish up until 3rd year and then changing to something else, and thus ending up with two second-rate subjects instead of one subject that you have learned well...

Fand

Sure, that's a good idea; let's decide what children should learn according to what use it'll be. They should learn how to wire and plumb a house, for a start, and how to be their own car mechanic. Much more useful than, say, geography or French (how many people do you know who use their school French?)

Religion should be off the course - no use to man or beast. English - well, why bother with literature, you can't buy or sell it. History - heavens, no. Latin's gone - after lots of agitation by people who didn't want to learn it because it wasn't useful. Ditto Greek.

In fact, come to think of it why bother to educate the majority of the population anyway? They'll never use it. They can't make money out of it. And that's what life is all about, isn't it? Making money.

Lyconix

Whoof, calm down Fand...

I think you're over-exagerating just a bit here... I enjoy learning History because its interesting, I try my best at English since it pays off big-time to have good command of the language, and I find all of my other subjects useful (I HAVE actually used my school French as a matter of fact)... EXCEPT for Irish. Why? Because only a small percentage of the population of this country consider it their primary language, therefore it is almost useless for the purpose of communication, which is what a language IS - a means of communication. Unless, of course, you like talking in Irish in foreign countries so that no-one can understand you, but thats about the only practical use for Irish I can think of, unless you're planning a visit to the west of Galway sometime soon.

Myself, I'm not into religion (I tend to place science above faith), but since I've encountered nothing truly indoctrinating in the secondary school religion classes, I haven't got a problem with it (its a good class to socialize in anyway), except I suppose for the fact that now all Junior Cert students must take a Religion examination... the purpose of this exam beats me.

My advice to you Fand would be to keep an open mind... I understand your view on making money, and it is annoying at times when you notice how selfish humanity is as a whole, but aren't you getting a little bit off the topic here?

Hellm0

I dont mean to offend or insult,But remember,good arguments allways do....
Irish is slowing down ireland,If you take the 5 classes I do of irish per week,and replace them with maths or some other useful subject,I wouldnt have the difficulty with maths I do now.Plus I wouldnt be spending 240 pounds for grinds in irish.Ban it I say,Burn the books in the middle of the school!

Hellm0

I dont mean to offend or insult,But remember,good arguments allways do....
Irish is slowing down ireland,If you take the 5 classes I do of irish per week,and replace them with maths or some other useful subject,I wouldnt have the difficulty with maths I do now.Plus I wouldnt be spending 240 pounds for grinds in irish.Ban it I say,Burn the books in the middle of the school![IMG]http://solarshadow.com/hellmo copy.jpg[/IMG]

Lyconix

Banning it might be a bit much but it should CERTAINLY be made optional and NOT compulsory as is the situation right now... I would also be much better at some of my weaker subjects if I had done them instead of Irish during the school week...

Fand

I would make Irish part of an "Irish Studies" course which would take in all aspects of our culture including traditional music and dancing, history and geography. But in the end, if people hate their culture they won't want to learn about it.

There are lots of people who hate Irish because they hate being Irish. And if they're the democratic majority, fine; if that's the way they want their country to be, fine.

Irish actually *isn't* hard to learn. Not unless you don't want to. Oh, I know, the grammar is awful. But to learn decent conversational Irish is astoundingly easy: go to any of the adult Irish courses around the coasts in summer and you'll find a million foreigners who've learned to speak Irish within a few weeks.

I honestly don't think the whole biz about compulsory Irish is much to do with the difficulty of the languge. It's much more to do with our attitude to ourselves. There are lots of kids out there who think it's an accomplishment to have failed to learn Irish - an attitude which can't but bleed into their whole way of thinking.

Fand

By the way, I didn't see the poll. The poll page flashed briefly by before the boards part loaded. But maybe I'm just being dim about how to find it.

Lyconix

Actually Fand, I think you're missing the point... kids don't consider it an accomplishment to have failed Irish, since where will failing Irish get you in the long run? It would have a significant impact on your Leaving Cert result if your other six subjects weren't up to scratch.

The point is - Irish should be optional so that students can choose subjects they like, and think that they will find useful. Rejection of the Irish language doesn't necessary mean rejection of the entire Irish CULTURE. For example, I'm against the Irish language being compulsory but I still celebrate St. Patricks Day!

Can you see what I'm getting at? If everyone has the CHOICE of doing the Irish language in school or not, then there would be nothing to argue about right now, since everyone would be happy.

Fand

I think Irish should be compulsory; I think a lot of subjects should be compulsory - and they are, not just Irish.

Think about it another way: should sign language be on the curriculum, and should it be compulsory? I'd say yes - quite apart from the fact that a chunk of the population is somewhat disenfranchised by the fact that the rest of us don't speak their language, or speak only a few words of it, it's also a beautiful language with its own grammar, metaphor, puns and jokes. What do you think?

Lyconix

But WHY should Irish be compulsory if people like me find NO use for it now and probably NEVER will? Those who wish to embrace the culture should learn Irish, and those that don't should be able to leave it alone and stop dragging the heavy corpse of the language behind them until Leaving Cert...

You seem to use the word 'compulsory' a lot don't you Fand? How about a little bit of freedom in these kind of decisions instead?

stecull

Well thanks to Irish I went through a number of years of sitting through 5 classes a week of babble. In the end I took on another subject to compensate for it. Got a high honors in that subject, failed the Irish. Does it matter to me, not now, years down the road, but at the time I found it infuriating.
Fand, you seem to be of the opinion that you are standing on some sort of moral ground here. Your not, it's because of people like you that I had to suffer through those years. Sure sign language would be useful, but what has this to do with Irish, Irish has no use. It is a dead language, I don't think anyone could argue against this. It's a fact. Why do some people always insist on flogging the dead horse, and more importantly insist that other people do so also.

Fand

Let's define our terms here. What do you mean by use?

seamus

Originally posted by Bloody Drunkard
Being a Leavin Cert student doing honours Gaeilge I wish i didn't have to.

But out of sight is out of mind. Make it non-compulsory and it will be dropped in record numbers. This will mean the death of the language

It can't be dropped in record numbers, because noones been allowed drop it before. Sure, about 50% of people would drop it, but I think it would still do quite well, after all, loads of people do French and/or German for the leaving, despite the fact that they may never use it.

Lyconix

Originally posted by Fand
Let's define our terms here. What do you mean by use?

Use... in this case I would define it as ever applying it to something outside of the Leaving Cert (including recreation and of course, chat boards) - I am certain that I will not apply Irish outside of the LC course, therefore in my opinion, it is useless. To those who wish to embrace Irish culture it is not useless, but to me and people like me who have no interest in it and don't need it for anything other than to get through the LC, it is.

Fand, its obviously easy for you to say that Irish should stay compulsory so that more people will speak it and the culture won't die, etc. etc. for one reason - you're already GOOD at speaking Irish and clearly enjoy it. I find learning languages extremely difficult, therefore, being forced to learn a language that is both UN-NECESSARY to me and DISLIKED by me, is infuriating at times. So for ****ks sake, can you TRY to see things from someone elses point of view? Hypothetical scenario... I force you to spend your entire second level education doing 5 classes a week learning hairdressing, despite the fact you'll NEVER have a use for it, and therefore you are not motivated to learn it and end up doing badly in your LC... CAN YOU SEE MY POINT NOW?