Advice Needed - May Be Going to Prison

Joe Jitzu

This is all very cosy! Maybe if Shane gets let off again we could all get together to celebrate the injustice and skip and hold hands. Then maybe after a few drinks Shane could start gettin all agro again and beat us all up!!
Sounds fun to me, who else is up for it? YAAY!! Group hug!

_Kaiser_

While I do get the sense that he is genuinely sorry for what he's done, the fact is that this is a 2nd offence and he was given a warning last time.

What suprises me though about this is the amount of "you poor fella" sympathy-type comments (at least that's how some of them read) that people are posting. Lets not forget that the charge is assault and criminal damage, not getting caught for not having a TV license, and in my opinion the guy deserves to do time. Would you all be as forgiving if it was you (or someone close to you) that he assaulted??

Now that said, I hope that if he does get sentenced that the time goes without incident. If he behaves himself and gets out in under a year and LEARNS from the experience so that he will not (and DOES not) reoffend, then given the point he made that the other party isn't an angel either, I'd consider that justice.

LegacyUser

I agree if he is not punished now then when? when its too late and there is no helping him or the people he hurts?

dudara

Joe Jitzu banned for generally useless comments. PM me in a week for unbanning.

Oriel

When's the big day?

Dragan

First of all, it's very easy to kick a man when he's down, and it's very easy to criticise someone for their mistakes if you havn't made them yourself. But for any situation, there are circumstances, and sometimes, people can not handle these circumstances, as well as they would have liked. It's a learning process, and shane appears to be a very genuine, very remorsefull individual, and it seems it was very out of character.

Shane, I too had a simular experience, I wasn't the type of person you would usually associate with these kind of actions, but I'll give the exact scenario so peple may better understand how therse things can happen.

(Firstly I would like to point out I realise I am 100% in the wrong here, I take full responsability for my actions, Im just trying to show my scenario to help people understand circumstances)

One night me and a couple of mates had a few beers too many, and what started as some friendly banter between two groups of lads in a night club turned quit vicious, and (stupid bouncers) through a few of us out at the same time, onto the street, and looked on (as it was outside the club) as a scuffle broke out.

I got into a fight with one of them, and unfortunatly gave him some serious (but not life threatining) injurys. He had a bruised head and jaw, and a black eye.

I have no idea where this came from, as I had never thrown a punch before in my life. However this all began in a club that served us 5 euro cocktails all night, then threw us out onto the street together and washed there hands of hit and made no attempt to stop it. They should have thrown us out seperate or interviend in the fight as it was 10 feet away. I feel they have a moral obligation.

I was arrested at the scene, charged with assault, spent the night in the cell, and as I had no injurys, this man was treated as a victim only although he through the first punch (missed, he was drunker than I was), and in court provecation and intoxication are not recognised as a defence.

I later went to court and ended up shelling out 500 euro in compensation, and luckily for me, it was my first and last ever offence, so I was given as a probation act, which means you have a criminal record for 2 years, and if you dont re-offend it is wiped clear.

Now I was an absolute fool for what I did, and I deserved my punishment, but to me that is not justice. Sometimes the "victim" isn't so innocent, and the club allowed a volatile situation come to a boiling point, as if we were still in the club, or if only one group was thrown out, or if we were thrown out seperatly, or if the bouncers had interviend, none of this would have ever happend.

If i had a previous conviction I would have gone to jail.

Oh please God tell me you are joking?????

Why should anyone be responsible for what you did? You bought the drinks, you got drunk, you started the aggro in the club, you were put out. That is the end of the line for the clubs responsibility, or the doormen.

You can't expect people to get involved in something that is not their business. Especially when it is between drunken morons you just put out of the club ( I'm sure you and your mates would have been really appreciative of the intervention......not)

At the end of the day, for you to have caused serious injuries of any kind, it means that you went to far and were hitting him after the point of self defence.

I suggest that you grow up my friend, unfortunately your "blame it on everyone but me" stance does not wash in the real world. You and you alone are responsible for your own actions, so don't give it the "Now I was an absolute fool for what I did, and I deserved my punishment, but to me that is not justice." garbage. Self defence and assault are two very different babies.

You can't say that you deserved your punishment and then try and push responsibility on others. You are solely responsible for how you act. Drinking less may be a start.

the_syco

OP, you got warned once, and you ignored it. A second warning could also be ignored, so jail time is the only way to teach you a lesson. Take it this time, for if it happens again, you won't get off so lightly.

Sarah**

Look he was looking for advice when the thread was posted not criticism....if he was the thread would be called "going to prison...need to be told how much i deserve to go...."

So for those of you who disagree and obviously there will be some, try be a little tactfull with your critiscism. he knows he's in the wrong.

_Kaiser_

Sarah** wrote:

Look he was looking for advice when the thread was posted not criticism....if he was the thread would be called "going to prison...need to be told how much i deserve to go...."

So for those of you who disagree and obviously there will be some, try be a little tactfull with your critiscism. he knows he's in the wrong.

.. and it's because I DO get the sense that he is genuinely sorry, that I think a year (with time off for good behaviour) is fair and just in this case (based on the details he's given us). The fact that he does seem to realise his mistake makes me believe that he won't be going back.

It doesn't however excuse the seriousness of the crime or (again, just in my opinion) some people's attitudes to it. The guy had his chance when he was let off with a warning last time, yet (as I mentioned above) a lot of the comments are along the lines of "hard luck mate" which in my opinion is the shocking part - and while it may be going off on a tangent, it's a valid point I think that needs highlighting.

This softly-softly attitude or the 'talk about it in therapy' approach (which someone suggested) doesn't work when applied to some of the scum out there (and I know this from the perspective of having grown up in a rough neighbourhood where kids are allowed run wild). If a tougher line was taken earlier on, it might cut down the number of repeat offenders, drug addictions while in prison, "graduation" to more serious crimes etc - note this last bit isn't aimed at the OP.

Dragan

Is the whole point of going to jail not supposed to be scary???? Or is that just mean.

Take your medicine and learn your lesson.

Sarah**

Ok. I think its time for me to say now that the reason why my heart goes out to him and i do empathise with him is that a year back i was seeing a guy who was a complete scum bag and he commited crimes left right and centre and just last thursday he got 6 months suspended for breaking into a house...beating the **** out of the parents infront of his ex and then continuing to threaten the family after......At one point a gun was involved when he was threatening and the best part he shows no remorse what so ever..........

Shane obviously is showing remorse and each day im sure is dreading the day that the sentence is issued. im just saying that the justice system needs to have rethink about what sentences they are dishing out!

I understand where people are coming from and i also understand that if it was my brother who shane assaulted i wouldnt be having the sympathy for him but then i also would wonder what my brother had done to have the fight brought on in the first place besides the drink being involved!

Bottom line- He is sorry for what he is done and going through the courts i think has thought him a lesson already! He already said he would clean up his act now so what more do we need? Society today has enough to be worrying about with the latest gang wars then a young guy who is saying sorry everyday and looking for advice from absolute strangers about going to prison! I think people just should try and be supporttive to him now....

LegacyUser

dublinshane wrote:

bubby,
Just to clarify this is my first serious offence but as I mentioned earlier I did get convicted of a minor offence last year.

Didn't notice that in the thread Shane. Listen, no disrespect intended at all, but what were you thinking at all!! I'd like to think that when they say "we'll give you a chance , but don't re-offend" that they would excercise that right if you re-offend.

Hate to say it, really do, but you can't go around commiting crimes, major or minor .. robbing grannies, kicking the daylights out of people, swiping IPods and mobiles, dealing drugs and get away with it.

Or can you????

You're not supposed to be able to, but there are people walking our streets that have been given "another chance" many times.

Will you play peace fully if you get off this time Shane? Once the being scared of jail feeling wears off .. or will you calm down a bit and get on with life in a more responsible manner?? Stick by the rules.

If you do get off, Jesus Christ .. learn your lesson ..!!

WaterfordOnline

Shane.
I am sorry to hear of your situation.

All I can say is, if you do end up inside, keep your nose clean.

About going to court.
Be respective of the Judge etc. Call him/her by "Judge" or "Your Honour" answer all questions by "Yes Your Honour" or "No Your Honour".
Dress smart and stand straight with your hands by your side. If you wear earings or other piercings, remove them before you go to court.
If you can, have some money there for compensation, or a contribution to the poor box and also some money for bail. The Judge will respect this.
Also, be as sympathetic to the court as you can. Look scared but do not panic.
Remember, the solicitor works for you so you call the shots. If you do not agree with the angle the solicitor is using, tell him/her. They will be happy to compromise.

I hope all goes well for you. As said before, if it is your first serious offense, chances are you will not get jail. More than likely probation, fine, bound to the peace, suspended sentence or something.

Good luck and learn from this.

secret_squirrel

Dragan wrote:

Oh please God tell me you are joking?????

You might want to tidy the quote in your post - you are wrongly listing Shane as the Poster when he was not. Presumably the rant is directed at that poster - not shane.

Shane wrote:

Minor offense

Unless the 'minor offense' is something directly violence related I dont agree with all the ranting on here as if you are some sort of repeat offender. If it is violence related then you ignored a warning - but hey I think you know that already.

Good luck.

_Kaiser_

secret_squirrel wrote:

Unless the 'minor offense' is something directly violence related I dont agree with all the ranting on here as if you are some sort of repeat offender. If it is violence related then you ignored a warning - but hey I think you know that already.Good luck.

Whether or not the previous offence was violence-related or not is irrelevant. It was obviously serious enough that he was brought before a judge and given a stern talking to and a warning.

Now personally I'd be thinking that the LAST thing I'd want to do is end up in front of another judge given that I'd already used my "get out of jail free" card at this stage... there's something to be said for the "3 Strike Rule" they have in the US.

And ok there was drink involved, and the other party isn't an angel by all accounts, but I'm sure we've all drank too much at one time or another..it doesn't mean we go out and assault people - it's (partly) the reason but it's not an excuse.

The fact that the guy does seem genuinely sorry and worried and that he's thinking about what's gonna happen either way is his most valuable asset and something to try and convey on the day. It's also the best indication that he HAS learned his lesson this time. It shows that he's NOT the scum that the judge usually has to deal with, and is his best chance of getting a reduced sentence (if indeed it does come to that).

dublinshane

Well this morning was the ‘big day’ as I was in court again for sentencing. What actually happened though was that the issue of compensation came up and that has put things back for another week.

I put myself forward as best I could in court but the judge was of the opinion that despite he believed me to be sorry for what happened, he had a ‘duty to impose a custodial sentence’ as this was a second offence coming relatively soon after last year’s incident. I won’t get finally sentenced until the compensation has been lodged but it now seems sure that I am going to prison but he did say that he would take the payment of compensation into account. My solicitor thinks he will probably give me a short sentence with the rest suspended.

I didn’t really sleep at all last night with what was coming up to day – thinking it could be my last night in my own bed so I am pleased to be here today but I have to go through the ups and downs of the past few days all over again.

secret_squirrel

Kaiser2000 wrote:

there's something to be said for the "3 Strike Rule" they have in the US.

Interesting considering from the rest of your post your are advocating a 2 strikes and you are out policy for Shane.

dublinshane wrote:

Well this morning was the ‘big day’ as I was in court again for sentencing. What actually happened though was that the issue of compensation came up and that has put things back for another week.

Interesting are there any guidelines for the amount of compo you have to pay to get a reduction in sentence? Or is it just suck it and see and hope the Judge got his oats this morning?

Personally for me I would have to carefully weight up the pros and cons of paying some maggot huge amounts of cash for something that he contributed too. Its a really tough choice - cripple yourself and your family financially for many years in the hope of getting a coupla months off your sentence. Im not sure how I could strike a good balance with that.

Again - good luck to you.

Vangelis

Ah, that's crappy, dublinshane.
I feel with you. Good luck!

LegacyUser

secret_squirrel wrote:

Personally for me I would have to carefully weight up the pros and cons of paying some maggot huge amounts of cash for something that he contributed too.

I tend to agree with that too.
I think the waiting alone is a sentence in its own right! It is obviously having an emotional affect on Shane, stopping sleep etc. I wonder, why they couldn't lay out the options before they went into the court room.

1. If Shane offers compensation, then xyz
2. If Shane doesn't then xyz

They have cases like this all the time, and why they need another week of tax payers money and emotional strain on Shane is beyond me.

Sorry to hear that the judge is egging for a sentence Shane. Coming up to Christmas that can't be the highlight of your year. I still think that the judge should take into consideration that you are sorry for what you did, you are offering compensation. I guess he is just hanging on the "you were warned before" line. If the last offence was minor (as you said above), then hopefully it will be a suspended sentence - as much to say "If you try anything like this again, we have a bed ready for you in the Joy". Next time you try it, no court case .. a van collects you, and your in the slammer. Don't know if it works that way.

I feel very sorry for you, building yourself up to this weeks court date, just to be fobbed off for another week. Typical judicial system in Ireland.

It reminds me of Jury Duty. They have about 150 people taken out of their jobs, companies distrupted for 2 whole weeks. I didn't get called, but had to do in every day for 2 weeks, and my employer I am sure lost out on a lot of revenue. They had way beyond the needed amount of people in that room. I am sure they made a fortune out of the vending machines there.

Beruthiel

Sarah** wrote:

Look he was looking for advice when the thread was posted not criticism....if he was the thread would be called "going to prison...need to be told how much i deserve to go...."

So for those of you who disagree and obviously there will be some, try be a little tactfull with your critiscism. he knows he's in the wrong.

sarah
please leave the moderating to the moderators.

I've read an awful lot of waffle on this thread, I do not appreciate having to read so much crap

I've decided to mark this thread with zero tolerance from now on.
anyone who doesn't stay on topic will be banned - I will accept no whinging afterwards, *you have been warned*
do not comment on this thread unless you have something helpful to add to the thread starters comments.
B

dublinshane

the_syco wrote:

OP, you got warned once, and you ignored it. A second warning could also be ignored, so jail time is the only way to teach you a lesson. Take it this time, for if it happens again, you won't get off so lightly.

Believe me, I don’t need to be locked up to learn my lesson.


Sarah,
The situation with your former boyfriend seems a very bad situation. Can’t believe that he only got a suspended sentence if there were guns involved as well. That seems like real bad stuff. Don't know what he did in court to avoid jail. Thanks for your support though.

Waterford Online,
Thanks for the advice. Having been there 4 times now I’m pretty well used to the drill by now. I’m surprised at the number of people who turn up in tracksuits or other ‘casual’ clothes. I can’t understand how some of them can be so cocky going into court. I don’t know if they’ve been there so many times before or they just aren’t taking it seriously. Then again I’ve also seen a fair number of people called who haven’t even turned up.

Kaiser 2000,
The situation with the 3 strike rule though is crazy. Wasn’t there a story of somebody who stole a pizza or something and ended up in prison for life. I can see the point for major violent crimes but whatever I think at the moment, surely it’s better that the details of each case are considered separately so that the punishment handed down fits the crime.

eyedrenalin

Beruthiel wrote:

sarah
please leave the moderating to the moderators.

I've read an awful lot of waffle on this thread, I do not appreciate having to read so much crap

I've decided to mark this thread with zero tolerance from now on.
anyone who doesn't stay on topic will be banned - I will accept no whinging afterwards, *you have been warned*
do not comment on this thread unless you have something helpful to add to the thread starters comments.
B

Doesn't really seem that she was "modding" to me. Seems like she's trying to help the guy not get lynched to me? Am I incorrect in saying that the OP asked about life inside - not about the validity of his sentencing? Does that mean anybody who comments otherwise gets banned? By questioning this statement, have I gone "OT"?

Clarification please.

Gordon

Yes it does mean that you are "OT". Back on topic or Bru will be very angry. And you don't want that.

eyedrenalin

You are too now BTW!

_Kaiser_

dublinshane wrote:

Kaiser 2000,
The situation with the 3 strike rule though is crazy. Wasn’t there a story of somebody who stole a pizza or something and ended up in prison for life. I can see the point for major violent crimes but whatever I think at the moment, surely it’s better that the details of each case are considered separately so that the punishment handed down fits the crime.

I'd agree...a mixture of both would be the way to go, as at the moment the deterrent doesn't seem to be there for a lot of the scumbags who turn up in front of a judge.

Just to add, this part of my comments wasn't aimed at yourself. As I've said, I believe that you are both sorry and that you have "learned your lesson" for want of a better term, and I hope that any time you do have to do passes swiftly and without incident

Unfortunately though, I grew up in a situation where the local gardai are almost as bad as the people involved (also well documented in cases such as those in Donegal) and when you have that, it's no wonder that these people think they're untouchable and our justice system has a "revolving door" reputation. For these reasons, I DO feel that "drastic" action may be the way to go in these instances.

(Note to mods: Hope my replying to the OP's response to me isn't classed as going OT)

Sarah**

I wasnt 'modding'. If you havent noticed Mr Mod... the topic moved slowly into the validity of his sentence and info about the crime he committed i was going with the flow and i was trying to help him....i know now im OT but ban me for all i care! Just trying to help a guy thats all!

LegacyUser

I know a lot of people on the thread have said "Keep your head down" in there. Even if its a short sentence, its got to be very difficult to find a happy medium. If you didn't make an effort to integrate then I'd imagine you could have trouble too. Has anyone actually been there, bought the t-shirt and found a happy medium?? I guess what I am asking is - what is the definition of "keeping your head down" ?

hada

Studying law in uni, and must state that by and far, we do have a fair legal system. (On a side note; the 3 strike rule is absurd - 2 million US citizens currently serving LIFE term jail sentences, the vast majority under the disgraceful draconian 3 strike rule for PETTY crimes..) Imagine that, life for a committing a petty crime, I hate that mentality... "keep them off the streets, lock them up and throw away the key"..it simply does not work.. anyway, sorry, getting back on topic:

But must state that (as with most things), there is quite an amount of discretion on the part of the judiciary re sentencing. I would believe that the judge (providing on the relevant details) will hopefully assess the punishment under a restitutive manner of justice. i.e. return manners as to what they were before the incident.. whether or not that comes under the title of damages payble, fines (most probable), or the often used probation act (no jail sentence as such) all really depends on the severity of the offence and the type of character the judge sees you to be....

Fingers crossed for you mate, and here's hoping everything will work out.

ps. your solicitor will naturally prepare you for the worst.. i mean he's not going to say you have no chance of recieving a jail term, so please don't read into this too much, again it's all down to numerous variables which i can only hope auger well for you

Uthur

Dude I seriously hope the Judge goes easy on you. Prison should be
reserved for real scumbags with lengthy records. Anyone can screw up
a few times in their life - especially if drink/drugs are added into the mix.
Surely a fine or community service is more in order in your case.

I'd be for the 'ten strikes and you're out' policy

Time Magazine

Can nobody see the analogies between this guy and the moderating of boards.ie?

Just as Beruthiel says next person to go off-topic will get a ban deter all people veering off-topic. Even if the poster isn't thinking right at the time and is apologetic, a ban will ensue. This will scare everyone else to keeping on-topic. Simiarly, the State may have to send the OP down as a warning to people who may not be as sorry as him.

So it may be of some slight solace to you, if you do get prison-time, that you might actually be saving some innocent guy from a not-so-innocent guy, simply because he knows that people can go to prison fairly easily.