Oh no!!!! not another racism thread

meditraitor

rsynnott wrote:

You left out the one that caused so much controversy:


And a few other little comments which indicate an opinion that racism is acceptable.
HTH

Please read below, I have summerised some of my earlier remarks for you because obviously you didnt read them,
when you have read them, there is no need to reply, because you will only make yourself look even stupider than you already do

#8
For the record, I am neither racist nor a bigot. I dont feel I have to explain myself to you, I realise from your reply you must only be about 16.

#16
Why did I ask the question??
1. I have travelled a lot and seen racism and discrimination in many forms, so understand me when I say it disgusts me. In the past 5/8 years Ireland has had a major influx of economic and social immigrants, bringing with them their beliefs, which in my opinion are the only discernable differance between peoples (ethnicity/race are none starters)
I believe that as a nation we have handled this influx of new idea's and religions very well, and that racism is not a major issue in our country, and I would go so far as to say that it is being exajerated by loony lefts like yourself.

#17
This is my point, as a proportion of the population/ the people with racist/bigoted tendancies is very small, I belive Ireland has handled itself with pride in our new and changing world, and that the naysayers only have one thing going for them,
that is the loudness of there argument- that Ireland is a racist country!!! which it is most definitely not

I say it again, tell me how racism is effecting these immigrants??????

#19]
This is a great country and we try our best, the VAST majority wouldnt say boo to a goose, we love the craic and are more than tolerable of other races and ethnicities, we embrace them, why do you think we travel so much(nowadays, its not because we need work!!)? its not to find people to hate, but to find different people to learn from and get drunk with

If I am wrong please tell me about this racist nation and its effects on these people??

#55
OK, Firstly the original post was structured as a question, there was no racist tones meant, I posted it hoping to get some feedback on peoples opinions regarding the manor in which racism is effecting immigrants or people from different ethnic backrounds in this country!
I do not feel that posing such a question is either bigoted or racist.

Racism is one thing, disgusting and intolerable, but infering someone is Racist is eqaully disgusting and personally I found it poisonous that a person can freely do it without engaging in discussion with the accused(me in this case)

And just to clear things up, I know I am neither a racist nor a bigot.

__________________

rsynnott

meditraitor wrote:

Please read below, I have summerised some of my earlier remarks for you because obviously you didnt read them,
when you have read them, there is no need to reply, because you will only make yourself look even stupider than you already do

Ah, arrogant rudeness is a substitute for debate now? Wonderful.

You are saying that Ireland isn't doing badly. You're right. It could stand to do a lot better.

I'd say racism effects them when they're cursed on the street for being <insert racial slur here> by racists, to be honest. If you haven't seen this, you must have been in hiding for a good few years now.

Your post reads like it's saying "sure, things are bad here, but they're worse in <insert war-torn developing-world country here>. If they're not happy they can go back. We're not the WORST, therefore we don't have to improve". Some people (rightly, IMO) took exception at that.

madfistbt

YOU LOT ARE OBSESSED WITH MULTI CULTURISM

rsynnott

Eh, that's nothing; there's slash porn about "Keeping Up Appearances" out there, you know.

Catsmokinpot

Macmorris wrote:

Neither will you. It's spelled 'encouraging'.

what i lack in spelling ability i make up for in common sence and a diverse gene pool

zenith

madfistbt wrote:

YOU LOT ARE OBSESSED WITH MULTI CULTURISM

Madfistbt banned for abuse and post editing. This thread is being watched.

Wibbs

meditraitor wrote:

For anyone who is interested, I will sum it up

How is racism effecting people in ireland, how does it effect their lives, maybe a contribution from some immigrants of different ehtnic or racial backrounds might get it going, or someone with some first hand knowledge. I would just like to get some feedback on this.

I feel embarresed looking at the route this thread has taken , that includes both sides of the badly managed argument about racial genetic differences, WTF. do any of you's have any cop on-- If you had any cop on you wouldnt lower yourself to debate such a stupid notion.

Fair enough. Point taken. I myself did go a tad off topic. Then again, foolish or no, I had to dive in with some of the "arguments" raised. Cop on or not, sometimes you have to reply to the sillier ideas wherever they show up.


Ok. My direct experience of racism here would boil down to the times I've gone out with foreign women. The crap you would hear spouted in their direction became decidedly tiresome. That said it was generally coming from the kind of dopey muppet you would expect to hear it from. The more insidious comments from those who ought to know better was what did surprise me. It wasn't obvious, which made it a bit more unsettling than the "****** go home" type comments that are easily brushed aside. Both opinions however were in the minority.

I have also seen the (not altogether surprising) isolationist tendency among certain immigrant groups living in Ireland. One attitude feeds the other in most cases, though not all. I have generally found Muslims as an example to be much more "integrated" and open than their reputation might suggest to some. It doesn't seem to be a colour issue either as I've also found that one African group can be a lot more likely to get involved than some others..

rsynnott

Wibbs wrote:

I have also seen the (not altogether surprising) isolationist tendency among certain immigrant groups living in Ireland. One attitude feeds the other in most cases, though not all. I have generally found Muslims as an example to be much more "integrated" and open than their reputation might suggest to some. It doesn't seem to be a colour issue either as I've also found that one African group can be a lot more likely to get involved than some others..

In other words, people are people, and attempts to predict their responses based on race fail. Which should be no surprise to anybody.

KnowItAll

Just seen this thread! Not suprisingly I see the usual extreme liberals are out in force.

meditraitor wrote:

Oh No not another racism thread!!!

---

Have not thought this through to much, so I will just throw it out there

Are these immigrants being beaten down with racism, does it really have an effect on there lives, are they not much better of in Ireland than they were in their home countries(reason for leaving)??

We always hear on the news etc what immigrants are saying. They are saying that it's tough in Ireland, that they have no money, that they are the victims of racist abuse... but... they don't leave in a hurry, do they?

Actually, it's in their interests to say that they are struggling rather than tell the truth.

meditraitor wrote:

Are we being misled by extreme liberals who think that we should all change our prospectives in life to facilitate peoples of other ethnic and racial backrounds because they decide to come here looking for a better life, which is being supplied due to our good nature(fact).

Yes. We are being misled. The media only ever shows things from the point of view of the immigrants because as (well, maybe not) everybody knows, most of the people in the media are extreme liberals.

meditraitor wrote:

Racism can be defined as treating a person or group differently because of their racial designation, but are we not in fact forced to treat people different because of this difference,

Yes, some employers must hire a number of immigrants regardless of ability or those immigrants would have no problem sueing.

meditraitor wrote:

What is the effect of racism on the immigrants here in Ireland. Is it hard for these people??

And if so why dont they move on?

No, it's not hard. Thats why they go into hiding when they are being deported!

ykt0di9url7bc3

IMHO This thread should be closed.

meditraitor wrote:

Not one person has addressed the topic i wanted discussed for 100 posts, and even before then it was either big mouth liberals with big sticks or mud slingers....

Well I'll have a look

meditraitor wrote:

What is the effect of racism on the immigrants here in Ireland. Is it hard for these people??

And if so why dont they move on?

Meditraitor, if you have defined racism as "Racism can be defined as treating a person or group differently because of their racial designation" is it so hard to relate your question based on your own expierences of being any ostracization (not sure if its a word :P) on basis of either age, sex, race, body shape, intellect...etc, now some of these characteristics can not be changed and some not changed easily... so looking carefuly at the question the "effect of racism" would be presumably be negitive but it is subjective to the immigrant in question... "Is it hard for these people?" It might be a shot in the dark here but starting a life in a new country would seem to me like a tough time for any immigrant... infact from working in different countries I didnt find it that easy to find my feet...

"So why dont they move on?" Well, you make some plans, do some research, you journey from your homeland to a new country with its differing culture and society... You arrive and things arent so easy. So, when do you give up? after a few days? after a few weeks?...

I'm going to highlight the shortcomings your questions in a simple analogy

What is the effect of racism on the immigrants here in Ireland. Is it hard for these people??

And if so why dont they move on?

What is the effect of fouls on players in Hurling. Is it hard for these players??

And If so why dont they stop playing?


It's such subjective questioning... why dont you have a conversation with an immigrant some time? Its a likely chance that some of your relatives may have immigrated at some stages of their lives... ask them... but asking it here on a forum where people have very strong differing views on the subject will have the discussion torn assunder.

The reason why you've gotten such a backlash meditraitor are for sutble points you have made...

meditraitor wrote:

but are we not in fact forced to treat people different because of this difference?

For any country in the world I visit, work, make a home... I'd like to be treated with the same respect it's nationals get... infact, for any interaction with any person on this planet, I'd like to be treated as a flesh and blood person rather to be stereotyped by my looks, race, creed, sex, age, etc...

I'm not calling you a bigot\rascist but others would see what you have said differently...

Its late and the wolves will take care of KnowItAll...

amp

KnowItAll wrote:

Just seen this thread! Not suprisingly I see the usual extreme liberals are out in force.


We always hear on the news etc what immigrants are saying. They are saying that it's tough in Ireland, that they have no money, that they are the victims of racist abuse... but... they don't leave in a hurry, do they?

Actually, it's in their interests to say that they are struggling rather than tell the truth.


Yes. We are being misled. The media only ever shows things from the point of view of the immigrants because as (well, maybe not) everybody knows, most of the people in the media are extreme liberals.


Yes, some employers must hire a number of immigrants regardless of ability or those immigrants would have no problem sueing.


No, it's not hard. Thats why they go into hiding when they are being deported!

Your saying a lot there Knowitall. I'd love to see what evidence you base your conclusions on.

To those who demand this thread be locked: Shut up. If you've nothing to contribute to this thread other than what you think are witty one-liners: shut up. If you want to debate immigration policies and how Ireland is dealing with immigration: post and try and include something to back up what you're saying.

Blub2k4

KnowItAll wrote:

Just seen this thread! Not suprisingly I see the usual extreme liberals are out in force.

Ah yes, you being the perfect counterbalance to liberalism it would seem?

KnowItAll wrote:

We always hear on the news etc what immigrants are saying. They are saying that it's tough in Ireland, that they have no money, that they are the victims of racist abuse... but... they don't leave in a hurry, do they?

Maybe it is tougher here than in their home country, why should they leave, adversity often makes a person stronger, but if we can influence this and make anyonees life easier then we should. What is with all the Irish friendliness towards guests of the nation?

KnowItAll wrote:

Actually, it's in their interests to say that they are struggling rather than tell the truth.

Rather offload a few prejudices than discuss the points would we? Of course they are all lying, they get more or our hard earned money that way dont they?

KnowItAll wrote:

Yes. We are being misled. The media only ever shows things from the point of view of the immigrants because as (well, maybe not) everybody knows, most of the people in the media are extreme liberals.

Now whatever you do dont generalise, everybody knows (:rolleyes:) that generalisation is a bad thing.

KnowItAll wrote:

Yes, some employers must hire a number of immigrants regardless of ability or those immigrants would have no problem sueing.

Can you back up your little Irish "Affirmative Action" fantasy here or is it just that?

KnowItAll wrote:

No, it's not hard. Thats why they go into hiding when they are being deported!

There have been cases but then I know a lot of Irish who used to do the same in the USA in the 80's so what is your point?

I'd say you should back up your little rant here or stay out of the thread.

meditraitor

Julia Gifted Windbag wrote:

I'm not calling you a bigot\rascist but others would see what you have said differently...

See this is part of the problem, the fear of the "your a racist" slur being bandied about by the looney left at anyone who instigates solid debate with relation to racism and bigotry in this country.

Of course there is racism in this country. and it should be addressed!!!

But we are not a racist nation, just look at the rest of Europe and the meteoric rise of the far Right, the continent and UK are at this moment in time homes to some large(democraticaly elected) right wing parties.

Were is the right wing in Ireland????
Thats right, there is none. I think this points to one thing. as a whole we are not racist and the sooner the mad off miles in the distance left looneys stop poisoning our media with reports of Irelands apparently prodigous Racist undertone the better.

meditraitor

amp wrote:

If you want to debate immigration policies and how Ireland is dealing with immigration: post and try and include something to back up what you're saying.

Another area of interest is the interaction of immigration and the welfare state.
Immigration could prove costly if migrants make disproportionate use of social benefits. On
the other hand, an immigration policy that favours the entry of young active workers could
reduce dependency ratios in rich economies that feature ageing populations, thus helping to
sustain the social safety net in the longer run. Most studies of social assistance recipiency
find that immigrants are less likely to take up social assistance than demographically similar
natives. The key words, however, are “demographically similar”. If immigrants have lower
labour market capacities than native-born workers, they will make disproportionate use of
social assistance.
Economies in continental Europe have seen rising rates of recipiency
accompany declining immigrant skill over the course of the 1990s (Brücker et al, 2001).http://www.tcd.ie/Economics/staff/minnsc/research/immigration_ireland_23_02_05_full.pdf
In trying to deal with these issues the government has come under attack, the left cannot sustain a argument outside of the social structure, but the realisation that a social structure cannot maintain an economy needs to be drilled into these groups, a balance has to be found.

Blub2k4

meditraitor wrote:

See this is part of the problem, the fear of the "your a racist" slur being bandied about by the looney left at anyone who instigates solid debate with relation to racism and bigotry in this country.

Of course there is racism in this country. and it should be addressed!!!

But we are not a racist nation, just look at the rest of Europe and the meteoric rise of the far Right, the continent and UK are at this moment in time homes to some large(democraticaly elected) right wing parties.

Were is the right wing in Ireland????
Thats right, there is none. I think this points to one thing. as a whole we are not racist and the sooner the mad off miles in the distance left looneys stop poisoning our media with reports of Irelands apparently prodigous Racist undertone the better.

Your constant reference to the "looney left" is similar to the racist slur, can you not discuss it without bandying insults about? It is just as easily said that the "looney left" slur is as easily thrown at anyone who wishes a human side to be brought to what is mostly a tabloid approach to the issue when esconced on the right (wing) side of the debate.

The right wing in Ireland is there in the form of a FF/PD coalition, if you cant see that then I dont know what politics you have been watching.

Dont bring up my former record or that you "know my style" or similar, debate the issue here and attempt to stay away from personal grudges. or attacks please.

Karl Hungus

Blub2k4 wrote:

Your constant reference to the "looney left" is similar to the racist slur, can you not discuss it without bandying insults about?

In fairness, I doubt his reference to the "Looney left" is meant as saying all the left wing are loonies so much as a few of the more extremist left. Or at least that's what I gathered from it.

rsynnott

Incidentally, can I just say that I really, reallly don't like the term "liberal" used to describe the left wing? In the US, where being economically left-wing is unthinkable, and the only dimensions covered are social and personal freedom, it makes vague sense. Otherwise, it is not at all an accurate description (no more than "conservative" is for those who try to destroy personal freedom in the US)

KnowItAll

Blub2k4 wrote:

Ah yes, you being the perfect counterbalance to liberalism it would seem?

Whats that supposed to mean?

Blub2k4 wrote:

Maybe it is tougher here than in their home country, why should they leave, adversity often makes a person stronger, but if we can influence this and make anyonees life easier then we should. What is with all the Irish friendliness towards guests of the nation?.

Why should Ireland with it's small population have to care for people from all over the world? Should we be taking in people who want to become rich?

Blub2k4 wrote:

Rather offload a few prejudices than discuss the points would we? Of course they are all lying, they get more or our hard earned money that way dont they?

It's common knowledge that alot of immigrants have multiple passports. False passport making houses have been found.

Blub2k4 wrote:

Now whatever you do dont generalise, everybody knows (:rolleyes:) that generalisation is a bad thing.

Everybody generalises eg If I was to go to Germany tomorrow I would expect to hear German mostly spoken because thats whats generally spoken in Germany.

Blub2k4 wrote:

Can you back up your little Irish "Affirmative Action" fantasy here or is it just that?

Ah, the old "back it up" routine. I'm always being asked to back things up even though I never lie. It usually happens when people cannot prove me wrong

Blub2k4 wrote:

There have been cases but then I know a lot of Irish who used to do the same in the USA in the 80's so what is your point?

I'd say you should back up your little rant here or stay out of the thread.

Why should I stay out of the thread?

I'm not apologising for the illegal Irish. What your really saying is if an Irish person committed crime in the past then it's ok for immigrants to do it now!

rsynnott

KnowItAll wrote:

Why should Ireland with it's small population have to care for people from all over the world? Should we be taking in people who want to become rich?

You make it sound like pure philantropy. Ireland benefits from an enlarged labour force and a more multicultural society.

KnowItAll wrote:

It's common knowledge that alot of immigrants have multiple passports. False passport making houses have been found.

What does 'a lot of' mean? Numbers?

Everybody generalises eg If I was to go to Germany tomorrow I would expect to hear German mostly spoken because thats whats generally spoken in Germany.

Your dictionary will be able to help you with that word.

Ah, the old "back it up" routine. I'm always being asked to back things up even though I never lie. It usually happens when people cannot prove me wrong

The onus is generally on those who make extraordinary claims to back it up, or be laughed at.

Why should I stay out of the thread?

You shouldn't. It's interesting to see who we're dealing with.

KnowItAll

rsynnott wrote:

You make it sound like pure philantropy. Ireland benefits from an enlarged labour force and a more multicultural society.

And like I said before. Germany brought millions of immigrants in after the war because the economy "needed" them. Now with all their high unemployment they must be regretting it.

rsynnott wrote:

What does 'a lot of' mean? Numbers?.

Use you dictionary

rsynnott wrote:

Your dictionary will be able to help you with that word.

Could I borrow the dictionary you have in front of you . I don't want to start insulting people but when you start insulting me it shows that you have nothing interesting to say.

rsynnott wrote:

The onus is generally on those who make extraordinary claims to back it up, or be laughed at.

I couldn't be bothered looking for info on it but if anybody wants to try to find info on the illegal passport scam than they'll find info. I think it was (one of the scams anyway) taking place in Drogheda but I'm not too sure

rsynnott wrote:

You shouldn't. It's interesting to see who we're dealing with.

Yes, isn't it.

rsynnott

KnowItAll wrote:

And like I said before. Germany brought millions of immigrants in after the war because the economy "needed" them. Now with all their high unemployment they must be regretting it.

Hmm, they're still got an abundance of skilled labour...

KnowItAll wrote:

Use you dictionary

...


I couldn't be bothered looking for info on it but if anybody wants to try to find info on the illegal passport scam than they'll find info. I think it was (one of the scams anyway) taking place in Drogheda but I'm not too sure

Erm, am I right in thinking that you're damning all immigrants on the basis of ONE PATHETIC LITTLE PASSPORT SCAM?!

In other news, all rich people are Ansbacher-holding criminals, all priests are paedophiles, all police are acting outside of the law, etc.

mycroft

KnowItAll wrote:

And like I said before. Germany brought millions of immigrants in after the war because the economy "needed" them. Now with all their high unemployment they must be regretting it.

So what, someone's lived in the country for decades, gets set home because of an economic hiccup?

Could I borrow the dictionary you have in front of you . I don't want to start insulting people but when you start insulting me it shows that you have nothing interesting to say.

So that'd be none that you can prove? How many? in numbers? of these passport houses have been found?

I couldn't be bothered looking for info on it but if anybody wants to try to find info on the illegal passport scam than they'll find info. I think it was (one of the scams anyway) taking place in Drogheda but I'm not too sure

.

Don't wave us in the direction of google and ask us to do your research for you. You're not sure are you? Well, you are in fact wrong. Or lying. Either works. Irish companies don't have to take a quota of immirgrants. Just wrong. Wrong, Incorrect, etc......

KnowItAll

rsynnott wrote:

Hmm, they're still got an abundance of skilled labour...

Ya, out of work

rsynnott

KnowItAll wrote:

Ya, out of work

No. They have a lot of unskilled labour out of work. Immigration undoubtedly helped them get smart people (you DON'T want stupid people building your bridges).

KnowItAll

Heres a http://www.breakingnews.ie/2004/01/10/story128988.html.

There were thousands of sites came up about Nigerian scams so I havn't time to go through it in more detail.

rsynnott

KnowItAll wrote:

Heres a http://www.breakingnews.ie/2004/01/10/story128988.html.

There were thousands of sites came up about Nigerian scams so I havn't time to go through it in more detail.

Okay. I take it all back. TWO forged passports. Better close the borders and execute anyone who isn't at least 9th generation Irish. Agus na bi ag caint i mBearla!

Blub2k4

KnowItAll wrote:

Whats that supposed to mean?

I dunno just a flippant comment to open like you yourself did, problem?

KnowItAll wrote:

Why should Ireland with it's small population have to care for people from all over the world? Should we be taking in people who want to become rich?

Ireland has a small population, because there are more people who consider themselves Irish living abroad than here in Ireland, are you suggesting we be ingrates and close our borders, if other countries reciprocated and threw the Irish out your fantasies would definitely become reality and we would indeed be in the ****.

KnowItAll wrote:

It's common knowledge that alot of immigrants have multiple passports. False passport making houses have been found.

On the side of the street? On the soles of peoples shoes? Where have they been found? I haven't found any recently.

KnowItAll wrote:

Everybody generalises eg If I was to go to Germany tomorrow I would expect to hear German mostly spoken because thats whats generally spoken in Germany.

But when people do it in public debate with no proof then the get pulled up on it, but they generally dont then throw up spurious links to the native language in a country which is not a generalisation, it is a fact.

KnowItAll wrote:

Ah, the old "back it up" routine. I'm always being asked to back things up even though I never lie. It usually happens when people cannot prove me wrong

Yep it's generally used as a counter to the old "talking Shite" routine.
People who make assertions back them up.

KnowItAll wrote:

Why should I stay out of the thread?

Because in fairness up until your post there was some sense being talked here , I would have thought that your post would already have been moderated for the crap it is.

KnowItAll wrote:

I'm not apologising for the illegal Irish. What your really saying is if an Irish person committed crime in the past then it's ok for immigrants to do it now!

No what I am saying is that if you look at it what they are doing is the same as what lot of Irish have done and continure to do and basically it is a case of throwing stones while living in glasshouses.

Iz it coz dey iz black?

<edit> I noticed however that you did not backup any of your points at all.

Zombrex

KnowItAll wrote:

It's common knowledge that alot of immigrants have multiple passports.

Its common knowledge that in the grand scheme of things immigration will only help Ireland in the future, it will have no long term adverse effects on the population at all. Oh btw, you can't argue with that, its simple common knowledge, everyone knows it .. don't believe me I am sure Google will help you out..
:rolleyes:

Blub2k4

Wicknight wrote:

Its common knowledge that in the grand scheme of things immigration will only help Ireland in the future, it will have no long term adverse effects on the population at all. Oh btw, you can't argue with that, its simple common knowledge, everyone knows it .. don't believe me I am sure Google will help you out..
:rolleyes:

So without immigration would the Celtic Tiger not have been more of a pussycat?
Immigration includes all the people here in the office with me, there are about ten Irish in a department of 100, the skills are not there we need to import them, what is the issue? Would you rather the work went elsewhere?

So what is not good about that?

KnowItAll

Blub2k4 wrote:

I dunno just a flippant comment to open like you yourself did, problem?

Problem? why would you say that

Blub2k4 wrote:

Ireland has a small population, because there are more people who consider themselves Irish living abroad than here in Ireland, are you suggesting we be ingrates and close our borders, if other countries reciprocated and threw the Irish out your fantasies would definitely become reality and we would indeed be in the ****.

This is a common misconception. There are not more Irish people abroad than there are in Ireland. There are people who, even if they just had an Irish great grandfather, would consider themselves Irish.

The Irish went to countries that were newly discovered eg USA and Austrailia.