Rig Up Inflames

gline

astrofool wrote:

I also had a problem using Norton AV, wouldn't let the pc shut down, using .

its a known issue, there is a fix

and yeh wizzard i manually shutdown the watercooling, DOH lol

astrofool

whats the fix? I was all over their site looking for even a mention of it.

gline

astrofool wrote:

whats the fix? I was all over their site looking for even a mention of it.

if u ring the support line they can help u. its free

po0k

gline wrote:

and SyxPak can u send me instructions on how to have the PC psu and the WC psu PS-ON pins connected as it would be handy for the future rig.

http://www.fastlanehw.com/reviews/131/DSC01149.jpg

That's pretty much what I mean when I say ATX Y-splitter. I assume you can get them in 20 or 24-pin versions.
Effectively it just mirrors the pin14 (Green wire in the middle on 20-pin ATX connectors) and a GND from the mobo to both PSUs, so that when you power on using the momentary switch on the front of the case, it switches on both PCs. I haven't actually tested this myself, but I'd imagine that when the PC shuts down the primary PSU, the secondary PSU should shutdown too.
BE WARNED: You will most likely have to add load resistors to the empty pins on the 2nd PSU connector to reach minimum PSU Load on all the rails

If you wanted to get really fruity, you could rig a short delay/relay between the PSUs from the front-panel PWR_SW so that the WC PSU powers on first, starts the pump etc. and then the machine boots.
It would be tricky to get the machine to shutdown and to leave the WC PSU running for a short period afterwards. I'm surprised that there isn't someone flogging such a piece of kit already.

Inspector Gadget

Man, that sucks - sorry chief

Can I ask what you think the water dripped on (at least while the power was on)? If it didn't fall on the mobo, you may have gotten away without killing that, but I think you need to wipe down a few things

(BTW, does your camera have a macro mode (it may be marked as a tulip symbol)?)

Commiserations...
Gadget

gline

Inspector Gadget wrote:

Man, that sucks - sorry chief

Can I ask what you think the water dripped on (at least while the power was on)? If it didn't fall on the mobo, you may have gotten away without killing that, but I think you need to wipe down a few things

(BTW, does your camera have a macro mode (it may be marked as a tulip symbol)?)

Commiserations...
Gadget

it dripped on the audigy, but the flames may have damaged the mobo. And thanks for the camera tip i forgot about that macro mode, no wonder all my pics have been turning out crap, my hands are too shakey, lol

and SyxPak thanks for the info, what do you meen by load resistors?

Inspector Gadget

Hmm. Check your capacitors to see if they burst (they don't like heat) - the rest is probably okay if it didn't get wet. Though be advised that some fine particulate soot can conduct enough electricity to cause problems - problem is, I haven't a clue what to suggest to clean it. Maybe alcohol and a lint-free cloth? A brush or hoover is probably out of the question for static grounds, though, if you earth it...

What Syxpak is talking about is the fact that power supplies are designed to provide several voltages together (3.3, 5, 12) and that something like a water pump will only use, say, the 12v line. However, to keep the PSU driving that pump from damaging itself, you'll have to remember that their "switchmode" design, while good for weight, conversion efficiency (i.e. little power lost to heat) and cost, is bad in that they have to be "loaded" something has to be drawing power from them on all of their outputs to ensure that they'll work reliably. This means you may have to use resistors (or similar) to make the PSU think there's a computer attached, to ensure that all the supply voltages stay stable and that the PSU won't pop.

Anyway, that's probably too much information.
Gadget

gline

its a crappy psu i use for the WC and it doesnt require load to work. i think some of the capacitors may have blown, but they may have been form the graphics card, im not sure tbh, best thing for me is just to test it.

po0k

Even if it's a crappy psu, all the more reason to slap a 1KOhm resistor across each of the spare rails, or run lighting off it or just something to balance out the load on the rails.
And why are you using a crappy psu to power your only source of cooling? You're just asking for trouble, might aswell fill the case with a bunch of wet kittens and a ball of wire wool while you're at it.

gline

SyxPak wrote:

Even if it's a crappy psu, all the more reason to slap a 1KOhm resistor across each of the spare rails, or run lighting off it or just something to balance out the load on the rails.
And why are you using a crappy psu to power your only source of cooling? You're just asking for trouble, might aswell fill the case with a bunch of wet kittens and a ball of wire wool while you're at it.

the crappy psu only powers the wc pump for the gpu and a few fans and i had it plugged into my dvdrw drive too i think just to balance the load between the 2 psus. the main source of cooling is the mach 2 for the cpu which is run off its own supply

Inspector Gadget

gline wrote:

the crappy psu only powers the wc pump for the gpu and a few fans and i had it plugged into my dvdrw drive too i think just to balance the load between the 2 psus. the main source of cooling is the mach 2 for the cpu which is run off its own supply

For what it's worth, the fundamental design of every desktop PC power supply since the dawn of desktop computing is based on the switchmode power supply - basically, while some are better at it than others, they all rely on the same fundamental principles. Add to that the fact that they're specifically designed to power a computer, not a water pump, or anything else.

Now, a computer PSU expects to have to supply varying amounts of power at a number of voltages; in particular, it expects a certain minimum power draw at each voltage, and is designed in such a way that its voltage regulation will be stable at these loads. To safely use a computer PSU to drive other things, you need to ensure that each of these voltages "sees" a sufficient load for its voltage regulation to kick in properly - this helps prevent the PSU damaging itself. For the sake of it, load the 3.3v and 5v lines with some resistors - it'll improve the reliability and longevity of the PSU.

(@Syxpak: Is 1kOhm not a little high? I would have thought a couple of orders of magnitude lower would be the ticket, but I haven't tried this in practice...?)

One last thing - don't share your computer's installed devices across your PSUs. The power supplies don't have a common ground, and this can cause all manner of hell if anything goes remotely wrong with either PSU. Fans, pumps, any electrically isolated devices are fine; drives, for example, are a no-no.

Just my 2c,
Gadget

po0k

1K is probably way too high Gadget, but I'm sleep-deprived and am growing increasingly dis-interested in people who don't listen to (for the most part) sound advice

It's amazing that people who want to run 'exotic' setups don't do any groundwork or read up on what's involved in designing a solid and safe system.
As you said, connecting drives to motherboard via PATA/SATA cables (which is powered off PSU A) and powering the same drive(s) off another PSU is madness.

Akin to tying a '91 Ford Fiesta to Saturn V with a length of baling twine.

I'm almost angry at you gline, you could very well have burnt down your house or worse because you ploughed ahead with WC without considering such a basic thing as having the two power systems sync'd. And blaming Windows' failure to shutdown cannot be used as an excuse, as much as it is in vogue to do so.

Inspector Gadget

I can understand the frustration, Syx - despite (or maybe because of) the fact that assembling a PC these days is little more than putting together a 15-odd-piece (static sensitive) jigsaw puzzle, there are some configurations that people hit on that tend to push the design envelope just a little The more people that settle on building their own PCs does make it easier for the rest of us though, as without a dramatic increase in interest in this sort of thing, those of us who've been considered anal or geeky in the past for doing so wouldn't have the variety of outlets at our disposal...

The way I see it, gline's being fairly philosophical about the loss - granted, I'm inclined to be suspicious of blaming windows (if I'm brutally honest, I think if you'd actually checked that the machine had shut down, gline, this would never would have happened - but you know that, and you know that these risks come with the rather exotic configuration you've come up with, so I hope you don't take this as criticism, rather an attempt at an objective post mortem).

Anyway, that's the nature of things. Just one last thing - never underestimate the power of balin' twine. I think it's the one thing McGuyver overlooked
Gadget

gline

SyxPak wrote:

I'm almost angry at you gline, you could very well have burnt down your house or worse because you ploughed ahead with WC without considering such a basic thing as having the two power systems sync'd. And blaming Windows' failure to shutdown cannot be used as an excuse, as much as it is in vogue to do so.

fact of the matter is it was not the 2nd psu that caused this to happen, or the "exotic" setup. it was the fact that i never checked to see if the pc had shutdown properly and i went to bed. Relax their man. these things happen, human error. i did do a LOT of research before building this pc, i just overlooked the fact of syncing and loading the psus as i was more concentrated on getting the phasechange working properly as it was the first time i hadd used it. Anyway il learn from my mistakes... no big deal.

Richard Dower

Now you know why i'm scared of watercooling!
Damn shame about the rig gline. I'd be well pissed off...did you have it insured?

WizZard

Richard Dower wrote:

Now you know why i'm scared of watercooling!

Could happen either if the fan on a GPU failed.

Richard Dower wrote:

...did you have it insured?

I doubt it, if he didn't have the flat insured.

gline

Richard Dower wrote:

Now you know why i'm scared of watercooling!
Damn shame about the rig gline. I'd be well pissed off...did you have it insured?

well as i said it wasnt the watercooling that caused this, it was my stupidity on not checking the pc to see if it shutdown properly not a leak in the watercooling initially. And no it wasnt insured.. you must be kidding me

djmarkus

Would this have happened if you invested in a relay card for your mach 2?

gline

djmarkus wrote:

Would this have happened if you invested in a relay card for your mach 2?

`

relay card for the mach 2???? the mach 2 is programmed to shutdown about 20secs after the main pc does by default

djmarkus

hmm...interesting.

The Real B-man

Wheres the pics?

gline

The Real B-man wrote:

Wheres the pics?

the links to the crappy pictures are earlier on in the thread

Inquitus

Never seen a fella get so much abuse for losing a grands worth of kit and having a brush with the Grim Reaper...........

......with friends likes these eh?

gline

Inquitus wrote:

Never seen a fella get so much abuse for losing a grands worth of kit and having a brush with the Grim Reaper...........

......with friends likes these eh?

ah i wouldnt call it abuse mate. just critisism. understandably, it was mostly my own fault, lol

WizZard

As I often say: You won't do that again!

gline

WizZard wrote:

As I often say: You won't do that again!

exactly, il just make sure the rig goes off proper and have the psus synched

unkel

gline wrote:

exactly, il just make sure the rig goes off proper and have the psus synched

LOL

It has to be said, gline, you must be one relaxed dude. No chance of a stress-related heart attack ever happening to you :cool:

gline

unkel wrote:

LOL

It has to be said, gline, you must be one relaxed dude. No chance of a stress-related heart attack ever happening to you :cool:

tbh the only reason for that is im used to this type of sh!t happening, just recently i got ripped off buying a motorbike and am losing €1000+ on that at the moment. So this is nothing compared to that.

galwaydude18

ya I no the feeling of losing money! was a victim of internet fraud there last year and it has ended up costing me €5000 worth of debt to the bank! No point in fussing about money i reckon! you either have it or you done but you do seem very very very relaxed about the situation!

masteroftherealm

Dude, my condolonces on your loss.... whens the funeral