Finally some justice metted out

nlgbbbblth

ixoy wrote:

Concurrent sentences being served, I notice, and the others got off fairly lightly. Still it smacks of some justice, although I hope some of the ultra Boards liberals don't go on to try and defend their actions based on the defendant's ages...

or their backgrounds / social deprivation etc

EDIT: oh wait I see Morning Star is on this thread. A great champion of the downtrodden working classes.

Hey Morning Star, what did you think of the Anabels case? Were you screaming for their heads because they were rich dudes?

RicardoSmith

MorningStar wrote:

THey have proved and know castration doesn't work. They go on to comitt rape with other items and become more violent...

Where do you get this kinda info??? Who is they?

Pet

THey have proved and know castration doesn't work. They go on to comitt rape with other items and become more violent...

That's bull****. Maybe you're confusing "castration" with "removal of the penis"? Castration would lead to a decrease in testosterone, and hence a decrease in violence, antisocial behaviour and sex drive. It would work. It's just a matter of ethics.

rooferPete

Hi,

It happens I have read a similar article to the one Morning Star is quoting from, sorry I don't have a web link I expect it was in a newspaper.

The crime will make every mans blood boil, none of us Thank God can truly imagine what he went through.

The real victim being the Lady was treated in a horrifying manner and I wouldn't dare to wish such a violation on anybody even if they don't agree with me.

At 12, 14, 16, 18, my parents knew where I was as did I know where my children were, it was a house rule, if you are changing location call home first.

I am not stupid, of course they either broke the rules or wandered into the grey area but 99.9% of the time they obeyed the rules as did I because the punishment wasn't worth the trouble, not beating but many other forms grounding etc.

The one who got the 20 years is an example of what will walk back into society in 2/3 rds of the actual sentences imposed, the acted like a pack of wild dogs and our prison system is much the same as the US system, designed for punishment not rehabilitation.

So we will get what we paid for, 16 year olds returned to society only they will be less than 20 and they will have attended college, in prison they must grow up fast but they will learn from the more experienced criminal where their lifes income is at.

Who would employ them ?, Who would work along side them ?, Who wants them living in their town / city ?

I do not believe they did not know what they what they were doing, maybe some of the younger ones felt power for the first time, now they know what power feels like and they have gone to college to learn new ways to use that power.

The parents do have one simple question to answer, why were their teenagers in the company of a man almost ten years their senior in a stolen car ?

I honestly believe this was not their first offence, the difference with this one is they went further than stealing money, they have robbed two people of any chance of a normal life, they have stolen their dignity and that can never be repaid.

Wacker

[/QUOTE]No kids are just "bad", there is only bad parenting.

Seamus, I'm not getting involved in the ret of the debate, but I'll say this: I have to sisters who we fostered at an ealy age (not even one, and two respectively). They came from a VERY bad family; I'll leave it at that. If you had my experience, I really doubt you would think that.

Thats all.

Maynard.

Dubai and saudi-arabia have the right idea with crime.
For stealing you can have your hands cut off.
For assault you can have your feet and or hands cut off.
For assault leading to murder or rape, you can be stoned to death.
For repeat offenders of minor crimes (altho you try beating sum1 up with no hands or feet..) you may be publically beheaded.

I wish we had this system, these "people" wont learn unless there is an extreme example made. Crime over there is virtually non existant.

Victor

dublindude wrote:

Personally, I'd rather beat them to death (if that was my girlfriend.)

You get off on that, do you?

Son of Belial

dublindude wrote:

Personally, I'd rather beat them to death (if that was my girlfriend.)

Go on the Muslims!!!

True. I'd want to hunt down every last little **** and kill him for that!

stag39

i hope to hell that those ****ards get all they ****ing deserve..!! :mad:

even though they were 16 and more than likely imature they still knew right from wrong and went ahead with it...!

even thickheads know right from wrong...!!!

i hope they get their comupance and get done themselves in jail then they'll know for sure they did wrong..

stag39

and that mr. barry deserves more than he got for leading them on..........

re : morningstar..as the saying goes if you do crime u pay the price...don't condone them..thats llike saying every 16 year old can do what they like and get away with it!!

MorningStar

RicardoSmith wrote:

Where do you get this kinda info??? Who is they?

I studied some psychology and read reports on experiments carried out in the 50's in the US. One of the victims of a rapists killed herself because her friend's father was castrated for raping her.

There have also been other countries that tried it but they didn't exactly keep great records on it. Look at this way if it worked wouldn't more of the extreme countries do it? I mean some of the chop peoples' hands off.

The first people they tried these kinds of experiments were the "mentally ill". They also tried labatomies. They work but make the person a little useless

So for anybody who complains I am not supply a link explaining how it doesn't work just try and find something supporting the theory castration has worked.

seamus wrote:

I'm a firm believer of "Your upbringing my explain your behaviour but it doesn't excuse it". I couldn't give a **** what kind of upbringing a person had. We're all responsible for our own decisions (I would put the lower age limit at 16)

You see that's what people think but it is not true. An average teenager is not full responsible for their actions. They simply don't have the emotional strength and understanding. THey maybe well on the road to thinking like an adult but they aren't capable. Again this is know scientifc fact.

seamus wrote:

You could use that kind of logic to prove that a man of 22 was socially retarded and we should be lenient.

Yes you can and they do! Have you ever read reports on the children's courts here.
A 16 heroine addict who's is arrested for prostitution, her mother was further down the lane with her younger sister looking out for her. I can see how the 16 year old is completely responsible for her actions and really would understand right and wrong. If she killed her mother she should go to jail according to your logic.
A balanced understanding view needs to be considered when passing judgement. Rehabilitation can work for certain things up to a certain age depending on the type of crime. A full assement is required as is that things are not black and white.

They need to be locked away and treated as they have to be made understand what is commonly right and wrong. In a cell they won't learn anything the true form of punishment is guilt.

MorningStar

stag39 wrote:

re : morningstar..as the saying goes if you do crime u pay the price...don't condone them..thats llike saying every 16 year old can do what they like and get away with it!!

First off you got the saying wrong,secondly I didn't condone and thirdly I never said let them go free.
To do the time for their crime they need to be responsible for it. To be responsible for something you have to understand what you r doing. A 14 year old on drink and drugs are noramlly used to run countries I know but I just think they might not be full responsible for their actions. The adult there was the most responsible person and got the longest time for a reason.

Deadwing

dublindude wrote:

Personally, I'd rather beat them to death (if that was my girlfriend.)

Go on the Muslims!!!

I know its a hardcore solution, and i wouldnt agree with cutting off someones hand for stealing etc...but my god for a crime like this id have no problem imposing a fitting sentence. I.e get some people to gang rape those little sh!ts and savagely beat them. Im not a violent person at all but by christ it'd take all the strength ive got not to bring a gun to the courtroom if i'd been that poor girls boyfriend. I dont even want to imagine how that guy feels..having to hear those f*cking human vermin shouting "were riding your bird" while he was locked in the boot..absolutely horriffic.
I knwo i say this every time one of these threads pops up, but bring back gas chambers

skywalker

Im stunned morning star is actually trying to defend those people. Have you actually stopped for a minute and thought about what they did?

newgrange

I guess there won't be any re-offending risk with this gentleman:

Mother sets fire to her daughter's gloating rapist
By Peter Upton in Alicante
(Filed: 26/06/2005)

A Spanish mother has taken revenge on the man who raped her 13-year-old
daughter at knifepoint by dousing him in petrol and setting him alight.
He died of his injuries in hospital on Friday.

Antonio Cosme Velasco Soriano, 69, had been sent to jail for nine years
in 1998, but was let out on a three-day pass and returned to his home
town of Benejúzar, 30 miles south of Alicante, on the Costa Blanca.

While there, he passed his victim's mother in the street and allegedly
taunted her about the attack. He is said to have called out "How's your
daughter?", before heading into a crowded bar.

Shortly after, the woman walked into the bar, poured a bottle of petrol
over Soriano and lit a match. She watched as the flames engulfed him,
before walking out.

The woman fled to Alicante, where she was arrested the same evening.
When she appeared in court the next day in the town of Orihuela, she
was cheered and clapped by a crowd, who shouted "Bravo!" and "Well
done!"

A judge ordered her to be held in prison and undergo psychiatric tests,
provoking anger from friends and neighbours, who have set up a petition
calling for her release.

Soriano suffered 60 per cent burns in the attack on June 13 and was
airlifted to a specialist unit. He survived for 11 days before
succumbing to his injuries.

It is understood that the woman, who cannot be named because of laws
safeguarding the identity of rape victims, claims to have no
recollection of the attack which took place in the Bar Mary, just 300
yards from the family home.

As decorators painted over the blackened walls of his bar last week,
Antonio Ferrendez Lopez told how Soriano had walked in at lunchtime.

"The place was packed with people eating. I was sitting at a table and
Soriano was standing at the bar very close to me when the woman walked
in," he said. "She didn't acknowledge anyone but walked up to Soriano,
who was drinking a coffee, put her hand on his shoulder and turned him
round to face her.

"Then she pulled the bottle she was carrying from under her arm and
began to tip it over him. At first I didn't realise what was happening,
but then I smelt the petrol. I jumped up and tried to grab her, but
when she struck a match I got clear.

"The petrol was in a pool around Soriano, and she threw the match into
it. It ignited with a whoosh, and he screamed and staggered about
covered in flames. As people rushed outside to escape the flames, she
just looked at him, then turned and walked away."

Customers helped Mr Lopez put out the fire with extinguishers and
doused Soriano with water until paramedics arrived.

Soriano's attack on the woman's teenage daughter took place in 1998.
The girl was going to buy a loaf of bread when Soriano snatched her
from the street, threatened her with a knife and raped her. Her mother
is said to have suffered mental illness ever since.

Soriano was convicted of the rape and ordered to serve 13 years in
jail. The sentence was later reduced to nine years on appeal.

The woman's lawyer, Joaquín Galant, told The Sunday Telegraph last
night: "The family has suffered a double tragedy. First the attack on
their daughter and now this. Both the father and his daughter would
like to express their sadness at the death of Soriano."

Earlier, Mr Galant said that the woman did not deserve to be kept in
prison. "For seven years she has been deeply affected by what was done
to her daughter," he said. "This man, fresh from prison and asking how
her daughter was, might be considered to have provoked her."

MorningStar

skywalker wrote:

Im stunned morning star is actually trying to defend those people. Have you actually stopped for a minute and thought about what they did?

I haven't defended their actions. Society is judged on how it treats the weakest memebers. Do you think a 14 year old boy really understood his actions fully? Bare in mind the judical system that deals with them and has a lot of experience and knowledge on this supports my view more than the view being given here.

What do you really want to do punish these people or prevent it from happening again?

There is just a huge lack of knowledge here and luckily people here don't run the judicial system.

skywalker

MorningStar wrote:

I haven't defended their actions. Society is judged on how it treats the weakest memebers. Do you think a 14 year old boy really understood his actions fully? Bare in mind the judical system that deals with them and has a lot of experience and knowledge on this supports my view more than the view being given here.

What do you really want to do punish these people or prevent it from happening again?

There is just a huge lack of knowledge here and luckily people here don't run the judicial system.

No no no. Were not going on some broad moralistic rant interspersed with anecdotes you've pulled out of god knows where. We’re talking about this specific incident. And if your not defending them, what are you doing?

MorningStar

newgrange wrote:

I guess there won't be any re-offending risk with this gentleman:


The woman's lawyer, Joaquín Galant, told The Sunday Telegraph last
night: "The family has suffered a double tragedy. First the attack on
their daughter and now this. Both the father and his daughter would
like to express their sadness at the death of Soriano."

Earlier, Mr Galant said that the woman did not deserve to be kept in
prison. "For seven years she has been deeply affected by what was done
to her daughter," he said. "This man, fresh from prison and asking how
her daughter was, might be considered to have provoked her."[/I]

You see what you missed here. The mother has made things worse. Nobody deserves to die like that and the daughter does not deserve this extra burden. The daughter will truely be messed up now. The mother might get away with little time but she will have to live with the fact she killed somebody unlikely she will remain feeling like it was the right thing to do it.

Sleepy

MorningStar, would your attitude be the same had that been your girlfriend? Would you have lain in the boot of the car thinking "ah sure, poor things, they're not old enough to understand what they're doing"?

Personally I think the most amazing thing here is that the girls boyfriend didn't just kill the little fúcks as soon as he'd free'd himself from the boot of the car. I know I would have. But then again, I'd probably be the one sitting behind bars for that in this molly-coddled country...

MorningStar

skywalker wrote:

No no no. Were not going on some broad moralistic rant interspersed with anecdotes you've pulled out of god knows where. We’re talking about this specific incident. And if your not defending them, what are you doing?

One of the boys was 14 it's what the whole thread is about. I was trying to explain the way the judicial system works and why without some knowledge it may appear to be unjust.
I ask again what do you want punishment or it not to happen again?
I haven't ranted once but what you just posted is because it just gives view without explanation.
What are you basing your great views on? What you fell? People have already researched this and understand it better than a gut feeling. They don't know all the answers but thay have figured out what works better than the old ways.
You can choose not to belive my stories but they are at least plausable and you can comment on them as possibilities at least. Facts and figures don't always matter so much.

Sleepy

MorningStar wrote:

You see what you missed here. The mother has made things worse.

Not for any parent in Benejúzar she hasn't. There's now one less psycho on the streets to harm their children. Even the killer's mother is better off knowing that something so evil that she gave birth to is no longer walking the streets.

Nobody deserves to die like that

In your opinion. Many of us would feel that raping a 13 year old girl would mean you deserve a horrific death like that.

and the daughter does not deserve this extra burden.

What burden? Knowing that the thing she's most afraid of can never hurt her again?

The daughter will truely be messed up now.

Because the rapist left her perfectly mentally balanced. I think if anything, the poor girl finally has closure on that aspect of her life.

The mother might get away with little time but she will have to live with the fact she killed somebody unlikely she will remain feeling like it was the right thing to do it.

I can't imagine any parent ever feeling that it wasn't the right thing to do tbh. More than likely this woman will be placed in a mental hospital for a time but I'd be very surprised if she ever sees a day's jail time (unless for wanton damage of the restaraunt?) because quite frankly, she doesn't deserve to.

skywalker

Sleepy wrote:

MorningStar, would your attitude be the same had that been your girlfriend? Would you have lain in the boot of the car thinking "ah sure, poor things, they're not old enough to understand what they're doing"?

Personally I think the most amazing thing here is that the girls boyfriend didn't just kill the little fúcks as soon as he'd free'd himself from the boot of the car. I know I would have. But then again, I'd probably be the one sitting behind bars for that in this molly-coddled country...

Im not getting into this with you MorningStar. Sleepys summed up my feelings. Wheres your sympathy for the victim.

disillusioned

seems there are a lot of people here who would bring back the death penalty

Sleepy

MorningStar wrote:

One of the boys was 14 it's what the whole thread is about. I was trying to explain the way the judicial system works and why without some knowledge it may appear to be unjust.
I ask again what do you want punishment or it not to happen again?
I haven't ranted once but what you just posted is because it just gives view without explanation.
What are you basing your great views on? What you fell? People have already researched this and understand it better than a gut feeling. They don't know all the answers but thay have figured out what works better than the old ways.
You can choose not to belive my stories but they are at least plausable and you can comment on them as possibilities at least. Facts and figures don't always matter so much.

14 is old enough to know right from wrong. If the child was mentally retarded your diminished capacity argument might hold some water but as the facts of the case remain, it doesn't.

To be honest, MorningStar, as long as people are unwilling to tackle these scumbags head on, they will win out. Not everyone is worth saving. Sometimes, for the good of society, you have to lock away those incapable of living within it and throw away the key (at enormous expense to the taxpayer because our society is too weak to consider just killing them). Sure capital punishment can be dismissed by saying "what if you get the wrong guy?" but in a case where someone has over 30 previous convictions, that argument just doesn't stand up.

MorningStar

Sleepy wrote:

MorningStar, would your attitude be the same had that been your girlfriend? Would you have lain in the boot of the car thinking "ah sure, poor things, they're not old enough to understand what they're doing"?

Personally I think the most amazing thing here is that the girls boyfriend didn't just kill the little fúcks as soon as he'd free'd himself from the boot of the car. I know I would have. But then again, I'd probably be the one sitting behind bars for that in this molly-coddled country...

I have already commented on that so maybe you could re-read the thread. Bascially just because you are a victim doesn't make you have the ability to give a fair and balanced view, quite the opposite. There are people out ther who think somebody should be killed for robbing for example.

Tell me what age you think people understand right and wrong? What about the various children (4-9) who have killed ? Did some of they know what they were doing?

Duckjob

MorningStar wrote:

Nobody deserves to die like that

As far as I'm concerned, you engage in a violent rape on a 13yo girl, you waive any right to be treated like a human being.

MorningStar wrote:

The mother might get away with little time but she will have to live with the fact she killed somebody

She killed a scumbag animal. No loss.

Lets not forget, he didn't do this crime and then become remorseful about it. He displayed NO REMORSE for the consequences of his actions, namely DESTROYING the life of a young child. Instead he got a kick out of taunting her mother.

If I had my way, he would be brought back to life using that re-animating technology they've used on dogs, set of fire a couple more times, and burnt some more.

Ph3n0m

MorningStar wrote:

Do you think a 14 year old boy really understood his actions fully?.

That is without question one of the most singularly retarded things I have ever read.

A 14 year old boy doesnt think attacking a woman and raping her is wrong? So by your suposition MorningStar, the average teenager has no real grasp on what is right or wrong. That no teenager believes assault, rape or kidnap is wrong, is a criminal act or actually believes that if he/she gets caught they are going to get away with it?

MorningStar - where do you buy your rose tinted glasses - as it seems that your perspective of the world is a lot more clouded then most people

the_syco

10 years, with good behaviour. Hopefully, they get the sh|t kicked out of them on their release. One of the scumbags only got 4 years, ffs!

Line them up against a wall, and let a blind man use them as target practice, using a pellet gun, tbh.

ionapaul

Can anyone really claim to feel any sympathy for that Spanish bastard and how he died? I wouldn't even believe Ivana Bacik if she came out with an expression of regret, I'd think she was only saying it because she knows that is what we all expect her to say! As long as a jury has anything to say about it, that mother won't spend a day behind bars. Likewise, if the boyfriend in the Limerick case has gotten out and beaten the gang to death, I couldn't see a jury in the land convicting him of anything.

You could excuse anyone's actions by blaming society or environment (Hitler was abused as a child), which I find incredibly insulting to the vast VAST majority of people who grow up in bad environments and turn out fine. Then again I believe in the importance of nature over nuture. Some people's actions mean they waive their status as a functioning member of society and lose their claim to humanity.

toiletduck

this was a horrific crime and all involved should never be allowed on the streets ever again. I'd love to see these sick f*cks 6 ft under tbh