Finally some justice metted out

Ph3n0m

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=121204340&p=yzyzx49zx&n=121204949

However, again like most crime and punishment - there is no consistency here

fade2black

Death would be too good for them. From a male point of view what happened to them both is simply horrific and I know I wouldn't be able to control myself in the hunt for vengeance.

Dave

Mr Justice Carney heard that the accused, who has 36 previous convictions, was not the leader of the gang and told gardaí that he had been present at the incident but made no substantial admissions concerning the more serious charges

Seriously, there should be some form of strike policy before life imprisionment. 36 previous convictions, and he's still walking around (not anymore obviously) assaulting people. No doubt the other lads will be back out in 5 or 6 years up to the same auld shíte just tougher.

passive

Fair play to the boyfriend anyway... escaping and beating his way to call for help. It is good to see justice dealt strongly for once... But chances are they'd all been arrested and released numerous times before (edit: ah yes, 36 times in fact.)

ixoy

Concurrent sentences being served, I notice, and the others got off fairly lightly. Still it smacks of some justice, although I hope some of the ultra Boards liberals don't go on to try and defend their actions based on the defendant's ages...

fade2black

ixoy wrote:

Concurrent sentences being served, I notice, and the others got off fairly lightly. Still it smacks of some justice, although I hope some of the ultra Boards liberals don't go on to try and defend their actions based on the defendant's ages...

I really, really, hope not.

Chalk

anyone fell like pasting the full story for the benefit of those [me ] behind web filtering software.

thanks.

Stephen

Why the **** did he give him concurrent sentences? Its like paying the price for one crime and getting the rest for free. They should be consecutive. Let the bastard spend the rest of his life in prison.

skywalker

Absolutely horrific crime. They should NEVER be allowed walk the streets again.


EDIT/ why do concurrent sentences exist? can they not be done away with?

Ph3n0m

full story

A Limerick man who participated in a savage gang-rape of a woman in a wood last year has been jailed for 21 years by Mr Justice Paul Carney at the Central Criminal Court.

Stephen Barry (aged 25), of Roxboro Road, pleaded guilty to four charges arising from the crime at Brickhill East, Cratloe, Co Clare on January 23, 2004.

Barry admitted raping the victim, assaulting her causing harm, false imprisonment of her and of her male companion and the assault of him.

He also pleaded guilty to a fifth charge of stealing a bottle of Tequila on January 22, 2004 at Fine Wines, Thomond Gate, Limerick.

Mr Justice Paul Carney imposed 21 years for the count of rape, 21 years for false imprisonment, five years for each assault and 12 months for theft. All terms are to run concurrently and the final year will be suspended.

Mr Justice Carney gave the four other Limerick teenagers detention terms of up to 10 years on July 30 last year for their roles in the crime in which the gang took turns to rape a woman while her 36-year-old male companion was locked in the boot of a car.

Thomas O’Neill, Dean Barry and Darragh Ryan, all 16 at the time , and the then 14-year-old Jason Ring, along with Barry, launched the attack on the couple after they found them together in Cratloe Woods in the early hours of the morning.

Detective Sergeant Michael Houlihan said the couple arrived at the scene around 3am that morning. Twenty minutes later the teenagers and Barry arrived in a stolen car.

Armed with a golf club, a screw driver, a wheel brace and a shovel, the gang threatened the couple demanding their mobile phones and wallets. The man had trouble finding money to give to the gang upon which they shouted "do him, do him".

The woman was severely struck on the shoulder with a golf club after telling her attackers to **** off when they tried to lift up her dress.

The man was in possession of an extendable baton and when the youths found it they assumed he was a garda and shouted "he's a cop do him".

They ordered the man into the boot of the car while Barry held a screwdriver to his side. Barry was identifiable from surgical stitches above his eye. From inside the boot he heard the gang shout "my turn next" and "we’re riding your bird" as the woman was repeatedly raped.

She was pushed onto the bonnet facing forward and an attempt to anally rape her was made. One of the gang sat in front of her, laughing in her face and asking her for a kiss.

She was dragged into the car and the gang took turns raping her while they threatened to burn the car with her boyfriend in the boot if she resisted. She was able to identify the accused man as the third to have raped her. She was also forced to perform oral sex on her attackers.

Det Sgt said the ordeal lasted for around 45 minutes. It ended when the man managed to escape from the boot and summon help from a passing motorist.

During his escape he was viciously beaten by the men but he managed to get hold of two golf clubs to defend himself with.

Mr Justice Carney heard that the accused, who has 36 previous convictions, was not the leader of the gang and told gardaí that he had been present at the incident but made no substantial admissions concerning the more serious charges.

O’Neill and Ryan, both from Lenihan Avenue, Barry, from Garryglass Avenue, Ballinacurra, and Ring, from Crecora Avenue, Ballinacurra, all Limerick City, pleaded guilty to raping the 35-year-old woman. They also pleaded guilty to falsely imprisoning the man and assault causing harm on both victims on the same date.

Mr Justice Carney jailed O’Neill for 10 years because he was described in court as the "ringleader" and "director of operations" and jailed Dean Barry for nine years because the probation report said he represented a continuing danger to others.

He sentenced Ryan to eight years and jailed Ring for the maximum four years for a person under the age of 16.

Mr Justice Carney suspended the final year of O’Neill, Ryan and Dean Barry’s sentence because of their age and guilty pleas but said he had no jurisdiction to suspend a portion of Ring’s sentence because it was to be served at Trinity House. The other three were to go to St Patrick’s Institution.

MorningStar

I am always weary of adults who hang out with kids. It indicates they are slow or trying to manipulate them.

The teenagers are one thing as they aren't exactly going to know the full extent of their actions especially if they come from an environment where people don't act responsibly.

TerrorFirmer

21 Years.....

Castration would teach those little fucking cunts a lesson

Half them'll be walking around in a few years free to mess up someone elses day/life/physical appearance

God, they make me sick

skywalker

ixoy wrote:

although I hope some of the ultra Boards liberals don't go on to try and defend their actions based on the defendant's ages...

MorningStar wrote:

The teenagers are one thing as they aren't exactly going to know the full extent of their actions especially if they come from an environment where people don't act responsibly.

Dint take long did it?

fade2black

(How did you by pass the swear filter there...fitting words...but I'm curious)

TerrorFirmer

Originally Posted by MorningStar
The teenagers are one thing as they aren't exactly going to know the full extent of their actions especially if they come from an environment where people don't act responsibly.

What a crock of shit

I'd love it to happen to your GF/BF and then have you say that again....

Its one thing stealing something, or doing damage to property - but beating someone, raping someone in such a brutal fashion....

They deserve the absolute full extent of the law (and worse), weak and all as it might be in some circumstances

joe.

If only hangings were still happening. It would still be too good for them. Scum

BlitzKrieg

there shouldnt be such a huge deduction for admitting guilt:

Mr Justice Carney suspended the final year of O’Neill, Ryan and Dean Barry’s sentence because of their age and guilty pleas

and

Mr Justice Paul Carney imposed 21 years for the count of rape, 21 years for false imprisonment, five years for each assault and 12 months for theft. All terms are to run concurrently and the final year will be suspended

the thinking behind giving lesser terms for people who admit is that they are alreayd beginning to understand and admit to their crimes.

But the reality is that in more cases the accused knows that there is more then enough evidence against them and admitting guilty will shave a number of years off.



also how did mobileinfantry get pass the censors?

Castration would teach those little ****ing ***** a lesson

just testing...****?

Ph3n0m

he got passed the filter cause he used this

c<font size=1>unts</font>

MorningStar

MobileInfantry wrote:

21 Years.....

Castration would teach those little fucking cunts a lesson

THey have proved and know castration doesn't work. They go on to comitt rape with other items and become more violent

MobileInfantry wrote:

What a crock of ****

I'd love it to happen to your GF/BF and then have you say that again....

Its one thing stealing something, or doing damage to property - but beating someone, raping someone in such a brutal fashion....

They deserve the absolute full extent of the law (and worse), weak and all as it might be in some circumstances

How old are you? Did you know everything when you were 16? They also did punish them to the full extent of the law. It was 4 years max they could do. The fact you knew better than them is a complement to your parents and you.

Just because you would flip out if it was your BF/GF doesn't exempt anybody from the social responsibility for justice which is a balanced view. I wouldn't love it to happen to anybodies family yet you seem to be willing to wish on mine. Maybe you don't know better :rolleyes:

seamus

MorningStar wrote:

How old are you? Did you know everything when you were 16? They also did punish them to the full extent of the law. It was 4 years max they could do. The fact you knew better than them is a complement to your parents and you.

Just because you would flip out if it was your BF/GF doesn't exempt anybody from the social responsibility for justice which is a balanced view. I wouldn't love it to happen to anybodies family yet you seem to be willing to wish on mine. Maybe you don't know better :rolleyes:

16, yes, they should fully punishable as an adult. Under 16, the parents should jailed as if they had committed the crime. If your 14-year-old child is hanging around with subhumans 8 years older than they are, you deserve to be locked up.

Naos

That is horrific. I remember hearing about this story.

Concurrent sentences are a ****ing joke.
3 strikes your out is the system we need.

Stephen

MorningStar wrote:

How old are you? Did you know everything when you were 16?

That wasn't directed at me, but I'll answer anyway: I'm 22 now, and I knew the difference between right and ****ing wrong at 16. Knowing "everything" has nothing to do with it.
Any 16 year old that doesn't know gang rape is wrong is a ****ing liar or mentally retarded.

Gurgle

seamus wrote:

If your 14-year-old child is hanging around with subhumans 8 years older than they are, you deserve to be locked up.

Were you ever 14 ?
Did your parents always know where you were ?

I know when I was 14 my parents generally thought they knew where I was, especially at 3am.

Things like vandalism or shoplifting, make the parents pay & let them sort the little feckers out. This is way worse, no parent could be held responsible for their kids commiting crimes like this.

AARRRGH

Personally, I'd rather beat them to death (if that was my girlfriend.)

Go on the Muslims!!!

seamus

Gurgle wrote:

Were you ever 14 ?
Did your parents always know where you were ?

I know when I was 14 my parents generally thought they knew where I was, especially at 3am.

Things like vandalism or shoplifting, make the parents pay & let them sort the little feckers out. This is way worse, no parent could be held responsible for their kids commiting crimes like this.

My parents had a general idea of what I was doing. They obviously wouldn't exactly where I was, but they paid enough attention that they'd be 99% sure of who I was with, and what kind of crap I was probably getting up to. A severe lack of Gardai turning up at the door helps.

TBH, while I agree it wouldn't be fair to punish parents for serious crimes like these, if parents were punished for the less serious stuff - vandalism, burglary, assault, etc - then they may bother to make a better effort. No kids are just "bad", there is only bad parenting.

AARRRGH

seamus wrote:

No kids are just "bad", there is only bad parenting.

I agree. Although peer pressure can be extremely powerful.

MorningStar

seamus wrote:

16, yes, they should fully punishable as an adult. Under 16, the parents should jailed as if they had committed the crime. If your 14-year-old child is hanging around with subhumans 8 years older than they are, you deserve to be locked up.

So at 16 you happen to know better than them. I bet you are better than others a certain subjects life is like that in everything. Somepeople have better social understanding than others. If they were brought up in destructive and unhealthy environments they may be both socially and emotionaly retarded basically not knowing the differnece between right and wrong.
Ask a seven year old is it wrong to steal a loaf of bread to feed your family and the answer is generally yes it is wrong. The child just doesn't have the abilty to see the complexities of the situation . A 14 year old will generally say no becasue they see the situation differently and if they say yes they understand why people say no.

People with stunted mental growth may never get to the stage where they see the situation in full.

Just because at that age you know or knew better add drugs,alcohol and group mentality to somebody who is not on solid mental understanding you get a different answer.

I don't belive people whom are nt adults should be charged as adults. They are not fully devloped mentally. Luckily the court system is full of people who understand more about this stuff and they try to give out balance judgements. Most of the time people just rely on the media to report the details where they don't cover all the facts.

The problem is the facilities aren't there to treat or rehabilitate the prison population. I am worried these people will be let out with out and positive change otherwise they are likely to reoffend in some way. THe fact somebody had 36 convictions shows the system was not there to change the behaviour.

I am not a woolly liberal I just want the quickest,cheapest and humaine way to stop this behaviour. Punishment in prison doesn't work but training does. It's a fact proved time and time again it just happens to work. Keeping people in prison is expensive and causes re-offence

civdef

Punishment in prison doesn't work but training does. It's a fact proved time and time again it just happens to work. Keeping people in prison is expensive and causes re-offence

Got sources to back up that fairly broad statement?

Keeping people in prison works very well indeed as a matter of fact, prisoners opportunities to commit crime are fairly limited whilst locked up. The longer theyre locked up the better. After a given number of repeat offences, being released shouldn't be on the agenda.

seamus

MorningStar wrote:

So at 16 you happen to know better than them. I bet you are better than others a certain subjects life is like that in everything. Somepeople have better social understanding than others. If they were brought up in destructive and unhealthy environments they may be both socially and emotionaly retarded basically not knowing the differnece between right and wrong.

I'm a firm believer of "Your upbringing my explain your behaviour but it doesn't excuse it". I couldn't give a **** what kind of upbringing a person had. We're all responsible for our own decisions (I would put the lower age limit at 16).

People with stunted mental growth may never get to the stage where they see the situation in full.

Just because at that age you know or knew better add drugs,alcohol and group mentality to somebody who is not on solid mental understanding you get a different answer.

You could use that kind of logic to prove that a man of 22 was socially retarded and we should be lenient.

OLDYELLAR

They all got off too likely!F*kn makes me so mad , jesus they had the guys and still the sentence is too light!The death sentence should be brought back in this country , the only way the streets are safe is if these guys are wiped out altogether!

Id love to see these fu*kers getting shot!

irishgeo

lets just hope some lags beats the **** of them in jail.

nlgbbbblth

ixoy wrote:

Concurrent sentences being served, I notice, and the others got off fairly lightly. Still it smacks of some justice, although I hope some of the ultra Boards liberals don't go on to try and defend their actions based on the defendant's ages...

or their backgrounds / social deprivation etc

EDIT: oh wait I see Morning Star is on this thread. A great champion of the downtrodden working classes.

Hey Morning Star, what did you think of the Anabels case? Were you screaming for their heads because they were rich dudes?

RicardoSmith

MorningStar wrote:

THey have proved and know castration doesn't work. They go on to comitt rape with other items and become more violent...

Where do you get this kinda info??? Who is they?

Pet

THey have proved and know castration doesn't work. They go on to comitt rape with other items and become more violent...

That's bull****. Maybe you're confusing "castration" with "removal of the penis"? Castration would lead to a decrease in testosterone, and hence a decrease in violence, antisocial behaviour and sex drive. It would work. It's just a matter of ethics.

rooferPete

Hi,

It happens I have read a similar article to the one Morning Star is quoting from, sorry I don't have a web link I expect it was in a newspaper.

The crime will make every mans blood boil, none of us Thank God can truly imagine what he went through.

The real victim being the Lady was treated in a horrifying manner and I wouldn't dare to wish such a violation on anybody even if they don't agree with me.

At 12, 14, 16, 18, my parents knew where I was as did I know where my children were, it was a house rule, if you are changing location call home first.

I am not stupid, of course they either broke the rules or wandered into the grey area but 99.9% of the time they obeyed the rules as did I because the punishment wasn't worth the trouble, not beating but many other forms grounding etc.

The one who got the 20 years is an example of what will walk back into society in 2/3 rds of the actual sentences imposed, the acted like a pack of wild dogs and our prison system is much the same as the US system, designed for punishment not rehabilitation.

So we will get what we paid for, 16 year olds returned to society only they will be less than 20 and they will have attended college, in prison they must grow up fast but they will learn from the more experienced criminal where their lifes income is at.

Who would employ them ?, Who would work along side them ?, Who wants them living in their town / city ?

I do not believe they did not know what they what they were doing, maybe some of the younger ones felt power for the first time, now they know what power feels like and they have gone to college to learn new ways to use that power.

The parents do have one simple question to answer, why were their teenagers in the company of a man almost ten years their senior in a stolen car ?

I honestly believe this was not their first offence, the difference with this one is they went further than stealing money, they have robbed two people of any chance of a normal life, they have stolen their dignity and that can never be repaid.

Wacker

[/QUOTE]No kids are just "bad", there is only bad parenting.

Seamus, I'm not getting involved in the ret of the debate, but I'll say this: I have to sisters who we fostered at an ealy age (not even one, and two respectively). They came from a VERY bad family; I'll leave it at that. If you had my experience, I really doubt you would think that.

Thats all.

Maynard.

Dubai and saudi-arabia have the right idea with crime.
For stealing you can have your hands cut off.
For assault you can have your feet and or hands cut off.
For assault leading to murder or rape, you can be stoned to death.
For repeat offenders of minor crimes (altho you try beating sum1 up with no hands or feet..) you may be publically beheaded.

I wish we had this system, these "people" wont learn unless there is an extreme example made. Crime over there is virtually non existant.

Victor

dublindude wrote:

Personally, I'd rather beat them to death (if that was my girlfriend.)

You get off on that, do you?

Son of Belial

dublindude wrote:

Personally, I'd rather beat them to death (if that was my girlfriend.)

Go on the Muslims!!!

True. I'd want to hunt down every last little **** and kill him for that!

stag39

i hope to hell that those ****ards get all they ****ing deserve..!! :mad:

even though they were 16 and more than likely imature they still knew right from wrong and went ahead with it...!

even thickheads know right from wrong...!!!

i hope they get their comupance and get done themselves in jail then they'll know for sure they did wrong..

stag39

and that mr. barry deserves more than he got for leading them on..........

re : morningstar..as the saying goes if you do crime u pay the price...don't condone them..thats llike saying every 16 year old can do what they like and get away with it!!

MorningStar

RicardoSmith wrote:

Where do you get this kinda info??? Who is they?

I studied some psychology and read reports on experiments carried out in the 50's in the US. One of the victims of a rapists killed herself because her friend's father was castrated for raping her.

There have also been other countries that tried it but they didn't exactly keep great records on it. Look at this way if it worked wouldn't more of the extreme countries do it? I mean some of the chop peoples' hands off.

The first people they tried these kinds of experiments were the "mentally ill". They also tried labatomies. They work but make the person a little useless

So for anybody who complains I am not supply a link explaining how it doesn't work just try and find something supporting the theory castration has worked.

seamus wrote:

I'm a firm believer of "Your upbringing my explain your behaviour but it doesn't excuse it". I couldn't give a **** what kind of upbringing a person had. We're all responsible for our own decisions (I would put the lower age limit at 16)

You see that's what people think but it is not true. An average teenager is not full responsible for their actions. They simply don't have the emotional strength and understanding. THey maybe well on the road to thinking like an adult but they aren't capable. Again this is know scientifc fact.

seamus wrote:

You could use that kind of logic to prove that a man of 22 was socially retarded and we should be lenient.

Yes you can and they do! Have you ever read reports on the children's courts here.
A 16 heroine addict who's is arrested for prostitution, her mother was further down the lane with her younger sister looking out for her. I can see how the 16 year old is completely responsible for her actions and really would understand right and wrong. If she killed her mother she should go to jail according to your logic.
A balanced understanding view needs to be considered when passing judgement. Rehabilitation can work for certain things up to a certain age depending on the type of crime. A full assement is required as is that things are not black and white.

They need to be locked away and treated as they have to be made understand what is commonly right and wrong. In a cell they won't learn anything the true form of punishment is guilt.

MorningStar

stag39 wrote:

re : morningstar..as the saying goes if you do crime u pay the price...don't condone them..thats llike saying every 16 year old can do what they like and get away with it!!

First off you got the saying wrong,secondly I didn't condone and thirdly I never said let them go free.
To do the time for their crime they need to be responsible for it. To be responsible for something you have to understand what you r doing. A 14 year old on drink and drugs are noramlly used to run countries I know but I just think they might not be full responsible for their actions. The adult there was the most responsible person and got the longest time for a reason.

Deadwing

dublindude wrote:

Personally, I'd rather beat them to death (if that was my girlfriend.)

Go on the Muslims!!!

I know its a hardcore solution, and i wouldnt agree with cutting off someones hand for stealing etc...but my god for a crime like this id have no problem imposing a fitting sentence. I.e get some people to gang rape those little sh!ts and savagely beat them. Im not a violent person at all but by christ it'd take all the strength ive got not to bring a gun to the courtroom if i'd been that poor girls boyfriend. I dont even want to imagine how that guy feels..having to hear those f*cking human vermin shouting "were riding your bird" while he was locked in the boot..absolutely horriffic.
I knwo i say this every time one of these threads pops up, but bring back gas chambers

skywalker

Im stunned morning star is actually trying to defend those people. Have you actually stopped for a minute and thought about what they did?

newgrange

I guess there won't be any re-offending risk with this gentleman:

Mother sets fire to her daughter's gloating rapist
By Peter Upton in Alicante
(Filed: 26/06/2005)

A Spanish mother has taken revenge on the man who raped her 13-year-old
daughter at knifepoint by dousing him in petrol and setting him alight.
He died of his injuries in hospital on Friday.

Antonio Cosme Velasco Soriano, 69, had been sent to jail for nine years
in 1998, but was let out on a three-day pass and returned to his home
town of Benejúzar, 30 miles south of Alicante, on the Costa Blanca.

While there, he passed his victim's mother in the street and allegedly
taunted her about the attack. He is said to have called out "How's your
daughter?", before heading into a crowded bar.

Shortly after, the woman walked into the bar, poured a bottle of petrol
over Soriano and lit a match. She watched as the flames engulfed him,
before walking out.

The woman fled to Alicante, where she was arrested the same evening.
When she appeared in court the next day in the town of Orihuela, she
was cheered and clapped by a crowd, who shouted "Bravo!" and "Well
done!"

A judge ordered her to be held in prison and undergo psychiatric tests,
provoking anger from friends and neighbours, who have set up a petition
calling for her release.

Soriano suffered 60 per cent burns in the attack on June 13 and was
airlifted to a specialist unit. He survived for 11 days before
succumbing to his injuries.

It is understood that the woman, who cannot be named because of laws
safeguarding the identity of rape victims, claims to have no
recollection of the attack which took place in the Bar Mary, just 300
yards from the family home.

As decorators painted over the blackened walls of his bar last week,
Antonio Ferrendez Lopez told how Soriano had walked in at lunchtime.

"The place was packed with people eating. I was sitting at a table and
Soriano was standing at the bar very close to me when the woman walked
in," he said. "She didn't acknowledge anyone but walked up to Soriano,
who was drinking a coffee, put her hand on his shoulder and turned him
round to face her.

"Then she pulled the bottle she was carrying from under her arm and
began to tip it over him. At first I didn't realise what was happening,
but then I smelt the petrol. I jumped up and tried to grab her, but
when she struck a match I got clear.

"The petrol was in a pool around Soriano, and she threw the match into
it. It ignited with a whoosh, and he screamed and staggered about
covered in flames. As people rushed outside to escape the flames, she
just looked at him, then turned and walked away."

Customers helped Mr Lopez put out the fire with extinguishers and
doused Soriano with water until paramedics arrived.

Soriano's attack on the woman's teenage daughter took place in 1998.
The girl was going to buy a loaf of bread when Soriano snatched her
from the street, threatened her with a knife and raped her. Her mother
is said to have suffered mental illness ever since.

Soriano was convicted of the rape and ordered to serve 13 years in
jail. The sentence was later reduced to nine years on appeal.

The woman's lawyer, Joaquín Galant, told The Sunday Telegraph last
night: "The family has suffered a double tragedy. First the attack on
their daughter and now this. Both the father and his daughter would
like to express their sadness at the death of Soriano."

Earlier, Mr Galant said that the woman did not deserve to be kept in
prison. "For seven years she has been deeply affected by what was done
to her daughter," he said. "This man, fresh from prison and asking how
her daughter was, might be considered to have provoked her."

MorningStar

skywalker wrote:

Im stunned morning star is actually trying to defend those people. Have you actually stopped for a minute and thought about what they did?

I haven't defended their actions. Society is judged on how it treats the weakest memebers. Do you think a 14 year old boy really understood his actions fully? Bare in mind the judical system that deals with them and has a lot of experience and knowledge on this supports my view more than the view being given here.

What do you really want to do punish these people or prevent it from happening again?

There is just a huge lack of knowledge here and luckily people here don't run the judicial system.

skywalker

MorningStar wrote:

I haven't defended their actions. Society is judged on how it treats the weakest memebers. Do you think a 14 year old boy really understood his actions fully? Bare in mind the judical system that deals with them and has a lot of experience and knowledge on this supports my view more than the view being given here.

What do you really want to do punish these people or prevent it from happening again?

There is just a huge lack of knowledge here and luckily people here don't run the judicial system.

No no no. Were not going on some broad moralistic rant interspersed with anecdotes you've pulled out of god knows where. We’re talking about this specific incident. And if your not defending them, what are you doing?

MorningStar

newgrange wrote:

I guess there won't be any re-offending risk with this gentleman:


The woman's lawyer, Joaquín Galant, told The Sunday Telegraph last
night: "The family has suffered a double tragedy. First the attack on
their daughter and now this. Both the father and his daughter would
like to express their sadness at the death of Soriano."

Earlier, Mr Galant said that the woman did not deserve to be kept in
prison. "For seven years she has been deeply affected by what was done
to her daughter," he said. "This man, fresh from prison and asking how
her daughter was, might be considered to have provoked her."[/I]

You see what you missed here. The mother has made things worse. Nobody deserves to die like that and the daughter does not deserve this extra burden. The daughter will truely be messed up now. The mother might get away with little time but she will have to live with the fact she killed somebody unlikely she will remain feeling like it was the right thing to do it.

Sleepy

MorningStar, would your attitude be the same had that been your girlfriend? Would you have lain in the boot of the car thinking "ah sure, poor things, they're not old enough to understand what they're doing"?

Personally I think the most amazing thing here is that the girls boyfriend didn't just kill the little fúcks as soon as he'd free'd himself from the boot of the car. I know I would have. But then again, I'd probably be the one sitting behind bars for that in this molly-coddled country...

MorningStar

skywalker wrote:

No no no. Were not going on some broad moralistic rant interspersed with anecdotes you've pulled out of god knows where. We’re talking about this specific incident. And if your not defending them, what are you doing?

One of the boys was 14 it's what the whole thread is about. I was trying to explain the way the judicial system works and why without some knowledge it may appear to be unjust.
I ask again what do you want punishment or it not to happen again?
I haven't ranted once but what you just posted is because it just gives view without explanation.
What are you basing your great views on? What you fell? People have already researched this and understand it better than a gut feeling. They don't know all the answers but thay have figured out what works better than the old ways.
You can choose not to belive my stories but they are at least plausable and you can comment on them as possibilities at least. Facts and figures don't always matter so much.