Multiculturism?

KnowItAll

Can Irish culture survive with the amount of immigration taking place? Personally, I doubt it.

People say multiculturism is good because it's a chance to mingle with different cultures. There is a major problem to this argrument though. Every city in europe is now multicultured. The immigrants and the natives eventually loose their culture and end up westernised (so every country in europe becomes the same).

PHB

Many inside the one.
I don't have the same culture as some guy down in a irish speaking galway town.
Does that make me any less Irish, or does it mean we are in a different culture?
Multiple cultures mixed together to create the Irish culture

tim3115

Multiple cultures create the Irish culture? Do you include the way of the Romanians in that? Along with the Italians? Sure throw in some Spaniards with that..

I don't see how that creates the Irish culture, our ancestors created it. True Irish men and women.

1203_axle_d3

Can Irish culture survive with the amount of immigration taking place? Personally, I doubt it.

I doubt it too..so isnt the only reasonable course of action to stop immigration? I think so..

KnowItAll

1203_axle_d3 wrote:

I doubt it too..so isnt the only reasonable course of action to stop immigration? I think so..

Yes, I agree. Some left wing liberals may not like to hear that but it's the truth!

Karl Hungus

tim3115 wrote:

Multiple cultures create the Irish culture? Do you include the way of the Romanians in that? Along with the Italians? Sure throw in some Spaniards with that..

I don't see how that creates the Irish culture, our ancestors created it. True Irish men and women.

True Irish men and women like all those Spanish settlers in the west and countless Scandinavians around the country? A little bit of knowledge of where we came from wouldn't go a miss. Me simply being from Galway means I probably have some Spaniard blood in me, and like many others here proudly call myself Irish.

On the flipside, todays notion of multiculturalism and political correctness is nothing but a marketing ploy. Yes, we're all the same really! We all eat at McDonalds and wear Nike.

McCulturalism morelike.

PHB

our ancestors created it. True Irish men and women.

Can you please define it?
Tell me what it is

the_syco

tim3115 wrote:

Multiple cultures create the Irish culture? Do you include the way of the Romanians in that? Along with the Italians? Sure throw in some Spaniards with that..

I don't see how that creates the Irish culture, our ancestors created it. True Irish men and women.

Totally agree. True Irish people. From the bog lands, from the cities, from the towns and small villages. From Ulster, Leinster, Munster, Connaught and Meath, the 5 provinces of old Ireland.
When foreigners came, and integrated into our society. Where many names, if you choose to trace them, you'd find they came from places such as France, Spain, and Hungary.

county

define irish culture?

KnowItAll

Karl Hungus wrote:

True Irish men and women like all those Spanish settlers in the west and countless Scandinavians around the country? A little bit of knowledge of where we came from wouldn't go a miss. Me simply being from Galway means I probably have some Spaniard blood in me, and like many others here proudly call myself Irish.

On the flipside, todays notion of multiculturalism and political correctness is nothing but a marketing ploy. Yes, we're all the same really! We all eat at McDonalds and wear Nike.

McCulturalism morelike.

Don't insult me by saying a little bit of knowledge where we came from wouldn't go a miss! I'm always researching where we came from because I find it interesting. The more I research the more I like our own culture and I will not back down in my beliefs that our culture is being eating away...

When you say the Spanish what do you mean? The Basques, Galatians etc? They are decended from the same people we are. There are plenty of red headed green eyed spanish (as well as scandinavians)! We are probaly part Neanderthal also (red hair theory) but either way, we have evolved into Irish people over thousands of years and developed a culture.

(If you were realy proud to be Irish then you would be against multiculturism!)

Sarsfield

French culture seems to have survived it. And Spanish, and Italian, German etc. And of course there is American culture.

Cultures evolve. You don't seriously think you're culturally the same as your parents or grantparents do you?

What makes our culture anyway? Language? Music? Writing? All of these evolved through sharing of different cultures. In fact Irish writing only managed to succeed abroad. So multiculturalism has been ESSENTIAL to Irish cultural development.

Unless you think having red hair is your culture?

If you look around the world you will find huge numbers of Irish, and their decendants. They all undeniably have a strong Irish culture. The Irish culture is a strong one and can survive in any environment.

If you believe Irish culture can't survive multiculturalism then you have a very low opinion of our culture. My culture. SHAME ON YOU :mad:

hawkmoon269

KnowItAll wrote:

Can Irish culture survive with the amount of immigration taking place? Personally, I doubt it.

As some other posters said, perhaps you'd better start by definining/describing this thing you call "Irish culture", then we might have the starting point, at least, for a debate.

hawkmoon269

KnowItAll wrote:

Yes, I agree. Some left wing liberals may not like to hear that but it's the truth!

Perhaps you should also provide a definition of what you consider to be a "left wing liberal" as I am intrigued by your use of the phrase in this context.

I am a centrist, possibly even right leaning, libertarian who has no problem with immigration (within reason).

KnowItAll

hawkmoon269 wrote:

Perhaps you should also provide a definition of what you consider to be a "left wing liberal" as I am intrigued by your use of the phrase in this context.

I am a centrist, possibly even right leaning, libertarian who has no problem with immigration (within reason).

The people I consider to be left wing liberals are the people who want to bring millions of immigrants into the country, like the media. They are out of touch with the real Irish people.

Do I really have to define Irish culture? Just compare Irish culture to other foreign cultures. Wait 5 years and compare them again. You will see that they are becoming more alike, or westernised. This is mostly because of the
media but also because of immigration. You may not like it but I'm only telling whats happening before my eyes.

Dagon

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that a lot of the beauty that defined our country throughout the ages is being destroyed. Towns everywhere are being filled with large chain stores and local business men are losing out. Homogeneity looms, with many large british companies moving in. Families flock in droves every weekend to worhip at the alter of mindless consumerism... and the comes the immigration.

Racial issues are very delicate, and must be discussed with an open mind, an open heart and awareness. Knee jerk reactions must be left aside, as must left wing and right wing idealogy - it leads to confusion. The truth of the matter is that our government is simply unaware of these issues in any way, and unaware of the possible harm caused by large levels of immigration to a country as unique, small and simple as Ireland.

My advice; open your eyes, and your heart. Noy just to those seeking refuge, seeking a better life for themselves, but also to those of your own country, your own stock. Talk to ordinary man on the street about what he thinks of the new Dublin, talk to the man in the country about the changing nation. Talk to the normal tradesman who works at the ground level. Talk to those who are older and wiser than you. You will find some interesting opinions. But above all else, just remember to open your mind.

Observe the reality as it is, not the picture painted by the media, or the picture painted by those who have been conditioned in either left-wing or right-wing doctrine. Observe what you see without this haze, and you will understand how it is.

DadaKopf

Can Irish culture survive with the amount of immigration taking place?

Step 1: Define 'Irish Culture'.
Step 2: Examine your values and ideas as to why you hold your opinion. What emotions and motivations emerge?

Perhaps, like most of us (me included), you're unconsciously racist. Do your reactions and views serve to separate people and make some better than others?

tim3115

But there are people who are better than others

Don't know what you are trying to get at here.

KnowItAll

DadaKopf wrote:

Step 1: Define 'Irish Culture'.
Step 2: Examine your values and ideas as to why you hold your opinion. What emotions and motivations emerge?

Perhaps, like most of us (me included), you're unconsciously racist. Do your reactions and views serve to separate people and make some better than others?

Everybody is unique espically those of different, foreign cultures. As for being racist, I think you should examine why people are racist in the first place...

kawaii

KnowItAll wrote:

Everybody is unique espically those of different, foreign cultures. As for being racist, I think you should examine why people are racist in the first place...

Everyone is unique - yes.

There is NO reason for anybody to be racist WHATSOEVER. People complain about immigrants taking our jobs. I see not how they are less deserving than we are.

Matter of fact, the coffee-shop where my friend used to work (irish owned) has ceased to hire Irish workers because, in their experience, they are lazy.

If Irish people also emmigrated to other countries (and believe it or not, we too are guilty of this 'sin') would we like to be treated like dirt? No. So what makes you think we should treat immigrants in our country any differently?

Anyway, back on topic... is not our culture a mix of others anyway? There is no such thing as 'pure irish'.

The reason for our culture being lost (although imo it has been pretty dead for a long long time) is our methods of attracting tourists. We are changing things to make Ireland seem like an appealing country for people to visit, thus building hotels, etc and trying to make Ireland look more modern. Basically, it's about making more money from tourism. However, it's also about moving forward. Be it good or bad, there is no escaping the future.

OfflerCrocGod

What a steaming pile of racist crap. Honestly, I am amazed at this rubbish. Irish culture is a subset of Western culture the two sets of value systems largely overlap anyone of us could blend in easily in any other EU or North American country so stop kidding yourself about our culture being "destroyed" by outside forces.

The people I consider to be left wing liberals are the people who want to bring millions of immigrants into the country, like the media. They are out of touch with the real Irish people.

ROFL, you sound like some paranoid American Republican. "It's the bloody jewish left-wing media!!"

"War is too important to be left to politicians. They have neither the time, the training, nor the inclination for strategic thought. I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids."

"War is too important to be left to politicians. They have neither the time, the training, nor the inclination for strategic thought. I can no longer sit back and allow Immigrant infiltration, Immigrant indoctrination, Immigrant subversion and the international Immigrant conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious culture."

:rolleyes:

kawaii

+1

Dagon

Why can't people just discuss it, without all this political bull****? These arguments always end up the same - a tit for tat battle against the right-wing nationalists and the lefties. And it never leads anywhere.

Here is something to discuss:
If our country imports thousands of people from countries in chaos and turmoil - countries often seen as more primal and less advanced than European civilaisations - will this have any effect whatsoever on our country, and our society? Has it had any effects in European built American cities like New York, where there currently reside more non-Europeans races than Europeans? Did the races mix well in these places? Are there divisions, and why?

Are you happy with Ireland as it is? WOuld you like to see it change dramatically?

Please try to answer the above honestly. There is no right or wrong answer.

thejollyrodger

I think Ireland desperately needs foreign people into this country. In all honesty I think our gene pool is far too narrow and if anyone travels to another country and comes back you can see it clear as day.

Personally Im not really in favour of Multi Culturism. I think it would be far better to have one culture that everyone can subscribe to. Foreign people can then fit in and there is more harmony in the country than England of the 60's and 70's.

tim3115

People complain about immigrants taking our jobs. I see not how they are less deserving than we are

Rubbish. They'll be leaving in a few years, replaced by other immigrants. No loyalty whatsoever, not that I'm worried about that. Thing is, immigrants gladly accept a much lower wage as the time spent in the country is small enough - small enough so that they don't feel the full impact of the cost of living. However, the Irish worker cannot accpet such low wages and therefore has to seek out the employment he/she deserves. I've seen it happen/heard it happen x amount of times that it's not funny. It's reality.

If I had the opportunity in the future to offer employment to someone, I would most certainly be biased towards the Irish applicant, there's no question about that.

If Irish people also emmigrated to other countries (and believe it or not, we too are guilty of this 'sin') would we like to be treated like dirt? No.

You must be referring to the easy time the Irish had when they arrived in America and the like? You think we were accepted back then? You think we were offered x, y and z to move country? Get your facts right.

is not our culture a mix of others anyway

Western culture has developed throughout the years, but the beauty of it is that it traces back thousands of years, making us unique. Different races throughout the ages. The Asian race, for example, is unique - would you not agree?

However, it's also about moving forward. Be it good or bad, there is no escaping the future.

Balls to that. Your attitude is pathetic. It really says something about yourself. Just saying it's dead etc, and leaving it at that...you think that will achieve what you want it to achieve?

tim3115

I think Ireland desperately needs foreign people into this country. In all honesty I think our gene pool is far too narrow and if anyone travels to another country and comes back you can see it clear as day.

Personally Im not really in favour of Multi Culturism. I think it would be far better to have one culture that everyone can subscribe to. Foreign people can then fit in and there is more harmony in the country than England of the 60's and 70's.

Ireland desperately needs foreign people? And on what do you base this on exactly? Using the word 'desperately' is a bit misleading, don't you think? I've travelled...what are you on about exactly??

Far better to have one culture? Haha. Brilliant. That's the EU for you. Working on this chap anyways. We're unique and that's the way it's staying.

Dagon

"Western culture has developed throughout the years, but the beauty of it is that it traces back thousands of years, making us unique. Different races throughout the ages. The Asian race, for example, is unique - would you not agree?"

This is another interesting point. I saw a documentary on National Geographic, and it was all about this "Out of Africa" thoery. Based on the evidence presented, it's a very feasible thoery. We have all evolved from the same original tribe. However, one of the things this documentary made clear was that - over thousands of years - we have all evolved in some very different and interesting ways. The skin, language and cultural traits have changed and developed in different ways. I would have to agree that the Asian race is very distinct and beautiful. Their culture is quite exotic. I've travelled around Europe and can see many similarities between those countries and ours, but would love to visit South America and Asia...

Andrew 83

I's agree with the view that Irish culture has evolved through interactions with other cultrues throughout its history and long let it continue.

We have to define our own identity however, we haven't really had one since the collapse of the Gaelic Order, the Catholic Ireland culture of the past 100 years is for the most part an invention of Britain then built upon and reinforced by ourselves (read Inventing Ireland by Declan Kiberd for more info).

thejollyrodger

We need foreign people in this country as we are a bit odd and inbred. I think there are some good points to Ireland. The irish spirit you can see in sport, music, arts and craft etc.

But Irish people are a bit of a evolution dead end... We need to diversify the jean pool

Macmorris

thejollyrodger wrote:

But Irish people are a bit of a evolution dead end... We need to diversify the jean pool

I agree. I think we definitely need better genes in this country. The problem was that a century and a half of mass emigration from Ireland meant that our most intelligent people removed themselves from the gene pool and left the less intelligent people behind in Ireland. It was a massive brain-drain and the result is that we have one of the lowest average IQs of any European country (only 93, lower than most European countries - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations) and we have huge social problems caused by the feckless behaviour of our low-IQ people.

I don't see the need for bringing in thousands of foreigners though. Ireland needs better genes not foreign genes. If we want a better gene pool we need to have a eugenics programme to make sure that our better quality people have more children and thereby improve the general quality of the population.

tim3115

We need foreign people in this country as we are a bit odd and inbred.

Sorry, but who exactly are you talking about here?

thejollyrodger

Im talking about Irish people. Go outside the major cities into the countryside and meet a typical irish farmer from the countryside. Compare that person from someone in the countryside of another EU country. They talk in riddles (to an outsider) and would be unable to discuss anything apart from the weather. Irish people have a very brittle mentality and we dont have the best of health either. We live off each other which is very odd for a foreigner.

Like, there is an international way of doing things. If you work anywhere abroad you will see that everyone does things the same way. Irish people havent adopted this and we do everything our own way. The GAA is kind of built on this idea, players can play the game in their own way. Some Irish people say they cant do the thing.. Like they are just not capable of working each day or dealing with day to day things. That for me highlights a very weak jean pool, weak mentality. You wouldnt find anything like that in Germany.

When we try to play soccer its highlighted against the other teams. We dont really play football, we rely on the irish spirit. That is something like New Zealand and their old indigious warrior ways. Its not something for the 21st century.

The other thing is there is too much 'life' in Ireland. I mean that so much things happen here that wouldnt happen in other countries. I met a load of people from czech republic and they didnt like it at all. I think indigious people all had different characteristics and we kind of stick out like a Mauri people in New Zealand.


in short, i think we need to diversify