Today I saw a classic and took a pic thread!

biggus

Tickford !

carchaeologist

biggus wrote: »

Tickford !

Nope..
In February 1976, £9445 was the price of one of these- in comparison, a Dolomite Sprint cost £3283 and the Jaguar XJ5.3 cost £7496.

biggus

lagonda or aston martin dolomite by david brown ?

carchaeologist

biggus wrote: »

lagonda or aston martin dolomite by david brown ?

Neither,twas by a small company..a guy called bob jankel set it up.

biggus

ok you win couldn't name it without the net ... by the panther guy

carchaeologist

biggus wrote: »

ok you win couldn't name it without the net ... by the panther guy

Thought it would be googled alright..half a star for you so!:)
Its a Panther Rio.Twas very much like a mini silver shadow.

Panther Westwinds had been set-up by fashion designer Bob Jankel to produce expensive and bespoke cars for the customer that wanted something entirely different. His previous products included the (Jaguar-esque)J72 and (Ferrari-esque) FF, which were both very fast - because they were based on Jaguar underpinnings - and very expensive. This was obviously a lucrative market to be in when times were good, but following the 1973 energy crisis, demand for such profligate cars began to melt away like snow in spring.
Ever one to produce an answer to a question no-one had asked, Jankel began working on a car that would appeal to the Rolls-Royce owner looking to trade down to something more economical, without resorting to purchasing anything so vulgar as a Mercedes-Benz, whilst losing nothing in terms of luxury or build quality. Casting around for suitable donor cars, Jankel hit upon the idea of building a car based on the Triumph dolomite, which thanks to its combination of advanced engines and upright driving position, would offer a unique blend of modern and traditional.
The Panther Rio was the result, and was launched in September 1975. According to the original press release, "The Rio combines characteristics combined in no other single car - the very highest level of luxury, appointments and smooth quietness with superb handling, a 115mph maximum speed, 0-60mph acceleration in 8.7 seconds, the opulence of Connolly leather, deep pile carpeting and burr walnut in the finest limousine traditions with the fuel economy and manoeuvrability of a compact family saloon; Panther coachbuilt quality and safety engineering with total functionalism; hand-crafted exclusivity without ostentation." The Rio was offered in two forms, the 1850 version was the "base" model and the 2-Litre 16-valve version (Dolomite Sprint) called the Rio Especial.
Panther was certainly upbeat about the car's chances and talked in terms of a pre-order of 100 cars from H.R.Owen. This would have been a sweet deal, which would have seen the Rio offered for sale amongst some very exclusive machinery indeed.
However, the 100 car deal never materialised and the Rio sold in dribs and drabs, which would be expected for a car that no matter how luxurious and exclusive it was, remained little more materially than a restyled Triumph Dolomite. The price was also eye-watering: In February 1976, £9445 was the price for the Rio Especial, which was quite simply over the top - in comparison, a Dolomite Sprint cost £3283 and the Jaguar XJ5.3 cost £7496. What Car? drove the car - an ex-H.R.Owen demonstrator, no less - in 1980 and remarked that the craftsmaship was very evident when you looked at the interior of the car. The only downside was that the new thicker, fatter seats resulted in a more cramped interior than the car it was based on...
The result was inevitable - Panther sold just 38 Rios, and learnt their lesson: their next small saloon, launched in 1980 for a more realistic £7500, was a plushly retrimmed and turbocharged Vauxhall Chevette HS, which dispensed with the Rio's bespoke aluminium bodywork in favour of a mild bodykit. Other than that, Jankel focused on what he knew best: retro-styled sports cars, such as the Vauxhall-based Lima, and upmarket exotica, such as the Panther Six.
Ref; http://www.aronline.co.uk/index.htm?pantherriof.htm

biggus

Where's the one in your picture ???

G Luxel

trevorbrady wrote: »

Vanden Plas?

it does look like something that could have been, would probably have been a
better buy than the Allegro. Incidentally Robert Jankel also designed the Hillman Hunter......

okistag

carchaeologist wrote: »

Thought it would be googled alright..half a star for you so!:)
Its a Panther Rio.Twas very much like a mini silver shadow.

Panther Westwinds had been set-up by fashion designer Bob Jankel to produce expensive and bespoke cars for the customer that wanted something entirely different. His previous products included the (Jaguar-esque)J72 and (Ferrari-esque) FF, which were both very fast - because they were based on Jaguar underpinnings - and very expensive. This was obviously a lucrative market to be in when times were good, but following the 1973 energy crisis, demand for such profligate cars began to melt away like snow in spring.
Ever one to produce an answer to a question no-one had asked, Jankel began working on a car that would appeal to the Rolls-Royce owner looking to trade down to something more economical, without resorting to purchasing anything so vulgar as a Mercedes-Benz, whilst losing nothing in terms of luxury or build quality. Casting around for suitable donor cars, Jankel hit upon the idea of building a car based on the Triumph dolomite, which thanks to its combination of advanced engines and upright driving position, would offer a unique blend of modern and traditional.
The Panther Rio was the result, and was launched in September 1975. According to the original press release, "The Rio combines characteristics combined in no other single car - the very highest level of luxury, appointments and smooth quietness with superb handling, a 115mph maximum speed, 0-60mph acceleration in 8.7 seconds, the opulence of Connolly leather, deep pile carpeting and burr walnut in the finest limousine traditions with the fuel economy and manoeuvrability of a compact family saloon; Panther coachbuilt quality and safety engineering with total functionalism; hand-crafted exclusivity without ostentation." The Rio was offered in two forms, the 1850 version was the "base" model and the 2-Litre 16-valve version (Dolomite Sprint) called the Rio Especial.
Panther was certainly upbeat about the car's chances and talked in terms of a pre-order of 100 cars from H.R.Owen. This would have been a sweet deal, which would have seen the Rio offered for sale amongst some very exclusive machinery indeed.
However, the 100 car deal never materialised and the Rio sold in dribs and drabs, which would be expected for a car that no matter how luxurious and exclusive it was, remained little more materially than a restyled Triumph Dolomite. The price was also eye-watering: In February 1976, £9445 was the price for the Rio Especial, which was quite simply over the top - in comparison, a Dolomite Sprint cost £3283 and the Jaguar XJ5.3 cost £7496. What Car? drove the car - an ex-H.R.Owen demonstrator, no less - in 1980 and remarked that the craftsmaship was very evident when you looked at the interior of the car. The only downside was that the new thicker, fatter seats resulted in a more cramped interior than the car it was based on...
The result was inevitable - Panther sold just 38 Rios, and learnt their lesson: their next small saloon, launched in 1980 for a more realistic £7500, was a plushly retrimmed and turbocharged Vauxhall Chevette HS, which dispensed with the Rio's bespoke aluminium bodywork in favour of a mild bodykit. Other than that, Jankel focused on what he knew best: retro-styled sports cars, such as the Vauxhall-based Lima, and upmarket exotica, such as the Panther Six.
Ref; http://www.aronline.co.uk/index.htm?pantherriof.htm

I saw one in Terenure show last year Black in colour will post a picture later.

Renotec

carchaeologist wrote: »

Good spot..didnt think there was any left!!

Missed these! I'm slipping. The beauty on the left looks like a TS because of the seats - but rims are wrong and the side panel trim could have been an add on. As for the one on the right I can't tell. Would love to see more pic's.

Arthur Daley

okistag wrote: »

I saw one in Terenure show last year Black in colour will post a picture later.

Also saw A Panter Rio at the Mosney show last June. Sure it must have been the same car.

Stephen

Today I saw a sh1tload of classics and took lots of pictures



I'm not sure what a '00 Lambo was doing in the middle of all these but it sure did draw a crowd!

more here.

Jagera

Saw 4 x 4CV's in Colmar, France.

okistag

carchaeologist wrote: »

Gold star for the first to guess what this is...:D
First one ive ever seen,and just as quirky as iv read about.

Heres the one that was at Mosney / Terenure last year

carchaeologist the name was on tip of my tongue honestly, as I have lots of books on Triumph and other Triumph based vehicles lol but Noble kept coming to mind :rolleyes:

okistag

I know it is not a classic yet, but I have not seen one of these in a while and used to own one back in 1988. Saw this one passing my house today. Super yoke

okistag

A very good friend of mine is selling this beauty, she is a Rover P5 Coupe 3.5 V8 and is as good as the pictures suggest. Private pm me if you want contact details. He was over at my house and gave her a clean up.
I dont have one of engine bay, but as good as the rest of the car.

Esel

^ Ballpark asking price?

junkyard

If it's as good as it looks with mileage under 100,000 it's worth around 3500 to 4000. I was offered an absolute minter three weeks ago in the UK with only 28k miles from new with full history and never restored for 4k sterling. There's another one on donedeal.ie asking 3500, more like 2000-2500 will buy it. Nice cars though but probably the heaviest on fuel i've ever had.

okistag

junkyard wrote: »

If it's as good as it looks with mileage under 100,000 it's worth around 3500 to 4000. I was offered an absolute minter three weeks ago in the UK with only 28k miles from new with full history and never restored for 4k sterling. There's another one on donedeal.ie asking 3500, more like 2000-2500 will buy it. Nice cars though but probably the heaviest on fuel i've ever had.

Hi Junkyard, I dont know what he is looking for it to be honest scared to ask as I mightbe tempted my self. just not enough room.
I do know there is a big difference between P5 / P5 Coupe the 3.0 lt and 3.5 V8.
I do know one thing it's certainly not a 3-4 grand car and I would grab it myself if it was.

okistag

esel wrote: »

^ Ballpark asking price?

I really dont know is the answer if you pm me, i will give you his number etc and chat directly with him would be best.

okistag

junkyard wrote: »

If it's as good as it looks with mileage under 100,000 it's worth around 3500 to 4000. I was offered an absolute minter three weeks ago in the UK with only 28k miles from new with full history and never restored for 4k sterling. There's another one on donedeal.ie asking 3500, more like 2000-2500 will buy it. Nice cars though but probably the heaviest on fuel i've ever had.

WOW i just googled them and found another in Dublin just look at the price !!!! I know asking is very different to getting but all the same :eek:



http://www.dermotwallacemotors.com/index2.html

and this is not a coupe but is a 3.5 v8
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C87047/
and this is similer

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C86235/

pm me the one you know of, if your not thinking of it for yourself, always fancy one at the right money !! I dont know what mate is looking for his but I know it ant going cheap and he is no hurry to sell.

TRNIALL

junkyard wrote: »

If it's as good as it looks with mileage under 100,000 it's worth around 3500 to 4000. I was offered an absolute minter three weeks ago in the UK with only 28k miles from new with full history and never restored for 4k sterling. There's another one on donedeal.ie asking 3500, more like 2000-2500 will buy it. Nice cars though but probably the heaviest on fuel i've ever had.

I know times are bad and prices are dropping but you will not buy a car like the one thats in the pictures above for anything like 3500 to 4000.I have seen and had the pleasure to drive this car, it is a fantastic car and needs no work whatsoever.

junkyard

That may well be so in your view but I go to classic car auctions in the UK and France on a monthly basis and the prices i'm giving are the true prices. There are plenty of cars out there for sale at realistic prices. Some dealers (not your friend by the way) put crazy prices on some cars and think they'll make a huge profit. All you have to do in most cases is look at the Irish classic car magazines and you'll see this kind of thing on a regular basis. I've seen cars advertised for seven or eight thousand euros that were bought for two or three thousand sterling, I know this because I was at the auction. I have no problems with making a profit if you can or at least covering your costs but putting unrealistic prices or expecting someone else to pay a 20k restoration cost for a car that at best is worth maybe 10k is unrealistic in my eyes.

junkyard

Just taking a quick look at the prices in Dermot Wallace motors there I really don't know where he's getting his prices from, you can see his stock list on carzone.ie for anyone who's interested, a Rover P5B coupe for nearly 20k euros?? An 1986 XJ6 Jag for 20k euros?? I don't know, maybe i'm missing something but I don't think so.

TRNIALL

junkyard wrote: »

That may well be so in your view but I go to classic car auctions in the UK and France on a monthly basis and the prices i'm giving are the true prices. There are plenty of cars out there for sale at realistic prices. Some dealers (not your friend by the way) put crazy prices on some cars and think they'll make a huge profit. All you have to do in most cases is look at the Irish classic car magazines and you'll see this kind of thing on a regular basis. I've seen cars advertised for seven or eight thousand euros that were bought for two or three thousand sterling, I know this because I was at the auction. I have no problems with making a profit if you can or at least covering your costs but putting unrealistic prices or expecting someone else to pay a 20k restoration cost for a car that at best is worth maybe 10k is unrealistic in my eyes.

Some dealers[not your friend by the way] The chap that is selling the car that is pictured above is not a dealer nor has ever been one and yes he is a friend of mine, Dermot Wallace is a dealer but im not talking about his car.

okistag

TRNIALL wrote: »

Some dealers[not your friend by the way] The chap that is selling the car that is pictured above is not a dealer nor has ever been one and yes he is a friend of mine, Dermot Wallace is a dealer but im not talking about his car.

I agree, about some dealers making a mad mad profit and just greed to be honest.
Dermot Wallace Cars always has top class cars, I have to say and I personally would buy and have bought from him in the past.

His prices are high but very cheap for the standard of condition his cars are in.
Dermot pays big money to get the best cars in stock and therefore for him to make a living his margin must go on, but again I refer to what I am going to say below.

e.g
A car I bought off him was say 5k over the odds of a standard car, I could have bought in the UK, but it was half the price of restoring another to the same level as the one I bought, so to me it was a bargain.

I have restored a number of cars over the years to a high standard and landed up putting 3 to 4 times the value of the car into it and over a few years even more.

I personally dont intended to sell on any of cars so to me it really wouldnt be an issue but for those who just want to drive the summer months and sell on well thats a different case.

At the minute I am doing a restoration on a Irish MGB GT and I can tell you one thing, what is going into it, you would think is mad, well I do anyway!!

And yes I could buy GT FOR WAY WAY WAY less, but if this MG did not have the history behind it and knowing the cost of the restoration and wanted a GT, I would be willing to pay half of restoration cost for a minter, as I would be saving alot more in the long run. Maybe even buy 3 or 4 Uk classic's with the change.

This is only my personal point of view after spending alot of money on restoration projects. So in short a well restored mint car, I feel is well worth half its restoration cost and depending on the car even more.

Another example:

I paid 11500 for a car that so many of the same vehicle could be bought in UK for 3 - 5k. I went over and look at them and all I could see is me putting another couple of grand in to it, and a good while of the road, by the time i get it home and did those things to it, to my liking plus the bits and bobs that always come up, sure I will be near to a restoration cost again.

This car was mint and a show car in every sense of the word, and had bills and receipts for 28000 grand to me it was a bargain at 11500k.

Also I would say Dermot Wallace is a pleasure to deal with and his back up service warranty are 2nd to none. Well worth the price difference.

That Rover P5 B coupe that my friend is selling is one magic car and I am sure it is priced at a realistic price for what it is. He is not a dealer but an enthusiast for many many years, and a hands on fellow whose cars in are top class condition. He knows what it is worth and I sure the right person is out there who wants one will see it as value. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT HE WANTS FOR IT BUT HE IS NOT OUT TO MAKE A PROFIT ON ANYONE THIS I KNOW. If you knew him and seen his rare TR you would understand.

But hey guys thats me and everyone one is the same well life would be boring dont you think!!


ps i am not defending the dealers nor any others who ask mad prices for a car with a fresh coat of paint on it, some cars i have viewed are 3 grand yokes but they are asking 12k, these people should be shot.
One year at citywest a fellow was telling me about his Stag which he had for sale and i thought of it as a donor car to honest at maybe 2k and when he opened the bonnett it had a straight 6 in it. I no long had an interest, he was telling me how rare etc and the motor is original etc etc. that car was restored and i wont see a better one. it was rotten so much filler and even started to show signs rust around the filler but you still smell the paint and he wanted nearly 9 grand for it!!! I should have taken out to the car park and shown him my Stag lol and asked him 150k at that rate, some people are just off the wall!!!!

carchaeologist

That is a gorgeous car jack.

Johnboy Mac

okistag wrote: »

e.g
A car............ say 5k over the odds of a standard car, I could have bought in the UK, but it was half the price of restoring another to the same level as the one I bought, so to me it was a bargain.

You are totally correct.

The problem seems to me people really don't have a clue about the value of classics, they see them as cheap or good value or far too expensive without doing some research on the particular car or finding out the exactly what refurbishment work was carried out etc.

To get a usable P5B, XJ6, 635CSI, 280SE etc in first class condition will cost more that the value of the car generally speaking in the short term anyway. Any first class overhaul/refurbishment will be big money, the cars mentioned above could very easily soak up £20k.

So all has to be kept in perspective. The best classic buy is a car that has undergone a full rebuild at somebody elses expense, that's why there is cars advertised with asking prices three times more for a particular car than another one advertised on the same page.

The motto never changes ''Buy the very best you can afford''.

Esel

carchaeologist wrote: »

That is a gorgeous car jack.

Can't see any jack in that photo?

TRNIALL

esel wrote: »

Can't see any jack in that photo?

Maybe thats a Jack with his hands in his pockets.:):D:)