2mb for less than €30 allegedly

Hornet

For some people a cap is a BIG problem. Fine! No discussion about it. They need an uncapped service.

For other people (the vast majority) a cap of 8 or 12 Gbyte is NO problem.

I agree with RicardoSmith, when he wonders what in goods name people download, but hey, if it floats your boat, go for it.

HOWEVER, don't necessarily expect that you get the lowest price or that products are tailored necessarily for the small percentage of users with MASSIVE download requirements.

On the other hand, it seems to me that a number of people assume that a 12 Gbyte cap will be there for eternity. Starting at a launch of a product with 12 Gbyte doesn't mean that in a few months or in a year the cap could be doubled, quadrupled or removed.

I think a 2 Mbit/s service for such a good price is a MASSIVE improvement over what we have today and I welcome such a development. Yes, it is very much limited to one location, yes, there are some questions over the contention issue, yes, for some no cap would be prefered.

But would it not make sense to even praise a service provider who is strong enough to break with the tradition of delivering "me too" services and subsequently to lobby for changes instead of dissing a service for one single slightly unsuitable parameter??

--Hornet

Chalk

most people arent mentioning the lowest priced product, just the fact that the 1 or 2 uncapped or large capped services are unavailable to most.

many people would gladly pay for a quality , fast, uncapped service but have no option.

this is then made worse when a company which , on the surface, has the resources to offer a better service merely goes with what every one else has

2mb w/12gig for 30
surely then they could offer a much higher cap without a speed increase for 50-60 euro?

Steve S

If it's only available in one housing estate that doesn't exist yet, I'd say this is either:

1) a scam;

2) some sort of calculation on the part of the ISP that €30/month for 2mbps up and down will not be cheap by the time that housing estate is finished, but they will have signed people up for it in advance.

RicardoSmith

CuLT wrote:

....Where did I say I didn't want to discuss it?....

CuLT wrote:

..Mind your own god damn business...

... as for the rest...

I was only putting forward a valid business case for a capped but fast 1m/2m product. Either you can see that or you can't. Incidentally I only asked you what product are you currently using that allows 6gb a day, every day. That would be helpful info for others.

If as you suggest there are providers monitoring this thread, then why not tell them, (if not me for some reason) why you need an uncapped service, and thus provide example of its use. I can only think of business reasons myself. People working with digital media and the like.

elvis2002

Look its quite easy to download 10 Gigs in a day on a 2MB line. In college I might download 1 gig of stuff in 30 minutes, granted its a faster line in college but if I had the 2mb at home i could just go asleep and let it go over night.

Movies are 1.4 gig a piece usually, what if i download 6 movies a month, that would be be 8 Gigs right there. Maybe some games, That could be the whole 12 GB's right there in one day. Two DVD games is going to burn that cap to pieces.

Anybody who would want this speed, wants to leech like a motherfooker, a normal user would have no use for something like this. Email.. pfft.

OfflerCrocGod

elvis2002 wrote:

Email.. pfft.

Look at my 2Mb/s e-mail connection! WOW! I've never seen e-mails downloaded so quickly!

SkepticOne

elvis2002 wrote:

Look its quite easy to download 10 Gigs in a day on a 2MB line. In college I might download 1 gig of stuff in 30 minutes, granted its a faster line in college but if I had the 2mb at home i could just go asleep and let it go over night.

This is why ISPs impose caps.

Steve S

SkepticOne wrote:

This is why ISPs impose caps.

Sorry, but that's not an explanation.

Mutant_Fruit

The average user (as most people claim) doesn't need a huge cap, because they don't download many large files.

So why the f**k would they need a 2 meg line? They don't. The reason being the same one that argued that a 12 gig cap is more than enough. The only point in faster connections (in my opinion) is to allow people to download more, and at a faster speed.

Anyone that needs the extra speed boost supplied by a 2meg line more than likely needs to download more than 12 gigs a month. But, if offers like this do get more widespread, then i think it will help to get better offers in the future. I think its obvious that no ISP wants to release 2 meg uncapped for EUR30 a month, because it would be so much better than any other existing offer. They're going to play it safe, and go one bit better than the competitors each time. No point in going 10 steps ahead needlessly.

jbkenn

elvis2002 wrote:

Look its quite easy to download 10 Gigs in a day on a 2MB line. In college I might download 1 gig of stuff in 30 minutes, granted its a faster line in college but if I had the 2mb at home i could just go asleep and let it go over night.

Movies are 1.4 gig a piece usually, what if i download 6 movies a month, that would be be 8 Gigs right there. Maybe some games, That could be the whole 12 GB's right there in one day. Two DVD games is going to burn that cap to pieces.

Anybody who would want this speed, wants to leech like a motherfooker, a normal user would have no use for something like this. Email.. pfft.

Eircom, EsatBT, Utv, Netsource etc. for Broadband
Xtravision for movies

jbkenn

SkepticOne

Mutant_Fruit wrote:

So why the f**k would they need a 2 meg line? They don't. The reason being the same one that argued that a 12 gig cap is more than enough. The only point in faster connections (in my opinion) is to allow people to download more, and at a faster speed.

The average user in Ireland right now probably doesn't percieve a need for higher speeds (many are reasonably happy on dial-up), however I think it is a mistake to assume that downloading more is the main reason for wanting higher speeds for everyone although this will certainly be true for some. Even without being able to download more, it is very nice to be able to get whatever files you want faster than you currently do and not have to wait. I think this is underestimated on this forum. If you download a program, a patch or linux ISO, it is nice to get this as quickly as possible rather than have to come back later. Your requirement for these files won't necessarily go up just because you can get them quicker.

However, when people talk about the fact that once they have a higher speed connection, they will then proceed to download more (see elvis2002's last post), then they are inadvertantly asking to be capped on their downloads because this allows the ISP to keep costs down and thereby compete with other offers.

It is like a group of chronic overeaters campaigning for all-you-can-eat buffets in restaraunts. Doesn't work. If people could keep quiet about how they were going to saturate whatever connection they have, then caps may have not got established in Ireland. It is sad that caps have become the norm in Ireland. In other countries it is the brave ISP that moves to introduce caps (e.g. NTL in Britain). In Ireland the reverse is true.

RicardoSmith

Theres many situations where you'd use 2mb but not need to download massive amounts of data. Many here can't grasp that, can't or see past their own requirements of movies, music, games and sofware. Theres many applications beyond that VPN's, teleworking, financial data, web enabled applications, databases etc.

Steve S

Similarly, there are many perfectly legal and legitimate situations where you'd need uncapped broadband at home: exchanging large files with servers at work is only one example.

The assumption that all those needing uncapped access are pirates and that, therefore, uncapped access is unnecessary is a false one.

And the fact is that the rest of the world has uncapped access (or caps so large as to be effectively uncapped). Why don't we? Oh, wait, I forgot: it's because we're right out there on the cutting edge and this is the way the world is going.

Except for it isn't, no more than that is the way that voice telecommunications (where the price is dropping to close to free and the service is unlimited) is going.

vibe666

ANYONE that NEEDS a 2mbps connection for ANYTHING is going to find a 12gb cap woefully inadequite. whether it's for work or play. it's like buying a lame racehorse. the potential is there, but you won't get the performance you need out of it. there isn't anything you can do on a 2mbps connection with a 12gb cap that you couldn't do on a 512kbps line with a 16gb cap.

okay so you get what you want quicker, but what's the point if you end up getting LESS overall?

Gone West

well whats wrong with the speed being 2mb/s? Would people be happier with 512k? Ordinary people probably dont need the extra speeds, but it would be nice to have extra fast internet, wouldn't it? In France you can get 20mb/s ADSL2+ for 20-30 euro per month.

On another note, the maximum theoretical amount you could download each day is about 20gigs.

PiE

"I have no need for a higher cap, or indeed an uncapped service, so why on earth should you!"

Jesus.

H.

Christ.

The very same people who'd be the first to sign up to a higher cap service if pressure on the ISP's got it done.

RicardoSmith

Steve S wrote:

Similarly, there are many perfectly legal and legitimate situations where you'd need uncapped broadband at home: exchanging large files with servers at work is only one example. The assumption that all those needing uncapped access are pirates and that, therefore, uncapped access is unnecessary is a false one.....

Thats true. But no so far has offered any examples of them.

vibe666 wrote:

ANYONE that NEEDS a 2mbps connection for ANYTHING is going to find a 12gb cap woefully inadequite....
okay so you get what you want quicker, but what's the point if you end up getting LESS overall?

PiE wrote:

"I have no need for a higher cap, or indeed an uncapped service, so why on earth should you!"

See neither of these viewpoints accept that there use cases for a capped 2mb or an uncapped product. Both are wrong IMO.

Gone West

PiE wrote:

"I have no need for a higher cap, or indeed an uncapped service, so why on earth should you!"

Wow this guy is both arrogant and ignorant at the same time. If he doesn't need high cap/no cap internet, then why should anyone else? Mabye other people have different needs than you, PiE.

Moriarty

I think you'll find that's what his point was aswell, fuzzylogic.

Mutant_Fruit

Fuzz, notice the quotation marks around Pi's statement. He was quoting someone else :P

As for a legitmate use of broadband that you'd easily break 12 gigs with, there was a service i was beta testing a while ago which let you pay X amount per month, and you could play games off its server. I.e. you streamed the game to your HD and played it through a special program, which decrpted the game on the fly so you could play it. (if you know what i mean). It was a 100% legal service, but unfortunately it just didn't work well on 512/512 at all. You would need 2meg for that service.

Of course, these kind of streaming services will never kick off to the big market until we all have faster speeds, and then the pressure will be up for bigger caps.

IrishMike

RicardoSmith wrote:

How on earth can you use 12GB in two days? Every two days? How are you getting your 6GB a day at the moment?

All that rubbish is the major use of the internet???

I can see instances where you might need a bit download every so often, theres a Service pack, or distro release or a demo or two. But not every day of the year.

i downloaded 340+ gigs over the month of november ricardo
all depends on what you want your connection 4 i guess

SkepticOne

Getting something quicker is good in itself. I agree with MutantFruit that it will create a desire among many people for larger caps but this does not detract from the benefit of having faster speeds. The only issue I have is with the idea that there is no point in faster speeds without larger caps.

Gone West

sorry I took a comment of yours out of context. Guess thats what happens when im filled with "DialupRage"(tm). Im not too bright at spotting sarcasm, either!

Richard Dower

RicardoSmith wrote:

How on earth can you use 12GB in two days? Every two days? How are you getting your 6GB a day at the moment?

All that rubbish is the major use of the internet???

I can see instances where you might need a bit download every so often, theres a Service pack, or distro release or a demo or two. But not every day of the year.

Because the guys using 6GB per day are usually doing something illegal that eats up their cap very quickly. Like downloading pirated material or any number of other "activities".

Most normal people never approach the cap and would welcome this 2MB offer, despite the 12GB cap.

Steve S

Richard Dower wrote:

Because the guys using 6GB per day are usually doing something illegal that eats up their cap very quickly. Like downloading pirated material or any number of other "activities".

They used to say the same thing about CD Burners: they can only be used for illegal activity.

This charge is false. One reason people--particularly Irish people--might want broadband is to videoconference with friends and family abroad. It is extremely easy to go over the cap with daily videoconferencing.

But the very premise--that your view of what's 'normal' should dictate the service for everyone--is idiotic.

What Eircon and the others are involved in is nothing less than soaking their customers while they can. It is my hope that Smart Telecom's offer will finally put an end to that.

Chalk

same arguments against vcrs too
what about ipods when you couldnt get itunes here,
divx dvd players.....
the list goes on

just because you cant think of anything legal to do with it doesnt mean there are plenty of people who can think of perfectly good uses for it and cant afford 2-300 euro for an unmetred eircom line

aphex™

Steve S wrote:

This charge is false. One reason people--particularly Irish people--might want broadband is to videoconference with friends and family abroad. It is extremely easy to go over the cap with daily videoconferencing.

But the very premise--that your view of what's 'normal' should dictate the service for everyone--is idiotic.

I agree totally, the first thing i'd do if i had this would be to fire up a video conferance with some relations in Japan who i haven't seen in a few years, they have 6mbit for €17 a month.

RicardoSmith

IrishMike wrote:

i downloaded 340+ gigs over the month of november ricardo
all depends on what you want your connection 4 i guess

I ask you the same questions. What are broadband product are you using to achieve that, and what are you doing that moves so much data.

I know there are valid reasons why you might want to move a lot of data but no ones posted any yet. Video conferencing to Japan isn't something everyone is going to want to do, and even if you did would you be doing it 24/7 every day of the year? No. Just like using it for CCTV. You're not going to stare at the video for every waking hour are you. You have to eat, sleep, drink etc. Any normal CCTV system only records movement not absolutely everything.

That said if you want to do it, then fine, find a product that allows you to do it at reasonable cost. Instead of moaning about a product that has a cap. Similarily there is a market for a product with a 2mb line and limited cap. It may not be you, but it does exist.

bealtine

RicardoSmith wrote:

I know there are valid reasons why you might want to move a lot of data but no ones posted any yet. Video conferencing to Japan isn't something everyone is going to want to do, and even if you did would you be doing it 24/7 every day

I'm a (sometimes) dba admin, I move vast quantities of data from my servers here to other
servers around the place. Sometimes one move can be upto 4Gb at a time.

I do that very rarely (thankfully only once recently) but it had to be done.

RicardoSmith

bealtine wrote:

I'm a (sometimes) dba admin, I move vast quantities of data from my servers here to other
servers around the place. Sometimes one move can be upto 4Gb at a time.

I do that very rarely (thankfully only once recently) but it had to be done.

Is this 2mb product for private or business use? Is that relevent?