2mb for less than €30 allegedly

mirage · 03-02-2005 10:27am #1

http://www.electricnews.net/frontpage/news-9585060.html

cgarvey · 03-02-2005 11:17am

Indeed .. but with a 12GB cap ( http://url.ie/2s ), the shine on the offering quickly vanishes
.cg

stagolee · 03-02-2005 11:26am

a pity, if it wasnt for the poxy 12gb cap that would be a great deal

Chalk · 03-02-2005 12:24pm

i rang them and its availble in an estate that doesnt exist yet.

Lex_Diamonds · 03-02-2005 12:25pm

Well, not moving or buying a new house anytime soon so.

ando · 03-02-2005 12:29pm

where the f*ck is "The Grange"

Scruff · 03-02-2005 1:35pm

somewhere in england, i think they had a soap based on the place on BBC a few years back.

RicardoSmith · 03-02-2005 7:01pm

Chalk wrote:

i rang them and its availble in an estate that doesnt exist yet.

cuppa · 03-02-2005 7:06pm

the grange is a site in newbridge ,ballymore homes,,site nearly finished.
dont know if its the same site

maybe its in that new town they are gona build in lucan,,abbysomething ,ment to be 10000 houses in that

Harry2001 · 03-02-2005 7:26pm

cgarvey wrote:

Indeed .. but with a 12GB cap ( http://url.ie/2s ), the shine on the offering quickly vanishes
.cg

This is just bad business, they have a great high-speed product that people want but then go and ruin it by putting a laughable 12GB cap on it.

What is the point?

Hornet · 03-02-2005 8:04pm

Harry2001 wrote:

This is just bad business, they have a great high-speed product that people want but then go and ruin it by putting a laughable 12GB cap on it.

What is the point?

Hmmm, where is the problem for the NORMAL HOME INTERNET USER with a 12 Gbyte cap?? I am NOT talking about the power users that are on boards.ie, but don't you think that 95% of the Joe Bloggs in a housing estate will stay FAR away from 12 Gbyte?

I am puzzled about the complaints about the cap! When I read the article on ENN and a similar one on Silicon Republic I was impressed by the price! EUR 29.90 for symmetrical 2 Mbit/s that is something!!

Amazingly all I can find in this thread is a bashing of the cap instead of welcoming the product.

Reminds me of the Guinness ad about people complaining about everything!!

The Grange:
As far as I understand "The Grange" is a development in North Dublin in the direction of Malahide. It is planned to grow to 10,000 homes.

The Malahide Gold Club (http://www.malahidegolfclub.ie/) seems to have "The Grange" in its address, and I have heard about the closeness of this development to Malahide before.

--Hornet

CuLT · 03-02-2005 8:17pm

12GB cap on a 2MB product can blow me, personally.

I guess it's better than a lot of products at the moment, but I'd sooner get IBBs uncapped 1MB or NTLs "capped"(stress on the quotation marks) 1.5MB product for 50e a month.

It's laughable, I'd use up the cap within 2 days.

Grand for people who want to "check their emails quickly" and all that rubbish though. Or, "make a flight booking slightly faster".

OfflerCrocGod · 03-02-2005 10:54pm

CuLT wrote:

Grand for people who want to "check their emails quickly" and all that rubbish though. Or, "make a flight booking slightly faster".

Exactly those people would be happy with only 512Kb/s, why 2Mb/s up - what's the use to those kind of people? Stupid offer

RicardoSmith · 03-02-2005 10:56pm

CuLT wrote:

....It's laughable, I'd use up the cap within 2 days..

Grand for people who want to "check their emails quickly" and all that rubbish though. Or, "make a flight booking slightly faster".

How on earth can you use 12GB in two days? Every two days? How are you getting your 6GB a day at the moment?

All that rubbish is the major use of the internet???

I can see instances where you might need a bit download every so often, theres a Service pack, or distro release or a demo or two. But not every day of the year.

MarVeL · 03-02-2005 11:20pm

Have to say that the offer looks pretty good to me as well (albeit more geographically limited than NTL ever were). As it stands even with fairly heavy DLing I'm normally only just going over the 8GB cap at the moment. And to complain that the average user doesn't need 2 meg connectivity is an odd statement to see in here. While it would be good to see the back of caps (and this one seems on the low side for the product) it is yet another step forward, albeit a small one

Shiny · 03-02-2005 11:28pm

CuLT wrote:

It's laughable, I'd use up the cap within 2 days.
.

hehe i would use that cap up in one day with 2mbps.

damn 24/7 downloading....

aphex™ · 03-02-2005 11:31pm

I bet their cashflow won't be great in the first few years. Are first time buyers full of money?

12 GIGS is rubbish tbh, u can upgrade the speed to 100mbps for a period on demand (this is not available yet- neither is VOD- what a supprise) then your cap won't last long. If i had 2mb i'd be watching movies legally off something like hollywood.com and fix cctv up to the net so i can keep an eye on the place while away. Wow, 12 gigs would go far there. What a waste of a service.

Random · 03-02-2005 11:49pm

So it's E30 a month to get 2Mbit/2Mbit a second with a 12GB cap..

or it's E38 a month to get 512Kbit/128Kbit a second with a 8GB cap..

I'd go for the former

cgarvey · 04-02-2005 12:07am

Hornet wrote:

Hmmm, where is the problem for the NORMAL HOME INTERNET USER with a 12 Gbyte cap??

...

I am puzzled about the complaints about the cap!

Normally, I'd be the same as you, in that everyone wants it all for free, which isn't realistic. However, I do think that more and more, home broadband users are beginning to use their broadband, and not just for checking the odd email (who cares what speed your connection is in that case, as long as its a good dialup or better). Home users are beginning to sign up to premium content. Take, for example, Big Brother.. or Discovery Channel.. not many, maybe, but more.

While 12GB may sound like an average cap, it is only because that's the trend/expectation that eircom has set.. whcih doesn't make it right. At 12GB, I think a gamer or a broadband content subscriber would want to watch their limits, whereas at 30GB or more, I don't think so. NTL have no problem here, or in the UK with a 30GB limit .. which allows for lots of gaming, webcams, subscription downloads, iTunes, etc... without fuss or worry.

However, there's something that doesn't add up about Magnet. They claim to have no contention.. so a 2Mb pipe for each house in the estate.. they must have multi hundred megabit connections to each estate.. in which case 12GB or 120GB isn't going to make any difference to them, because when you're talking about that sort of down/upstrream, limits don't come into it, it's width/flow, not volume. So either they're lying about the no-contention, or they're purely out to take any reasonably heavy home user (which would include a decent online gamer) to the cleaners; I can't see any other explanation.

.cg

RicardoSmith · 04-02-2005 12:09am

aphex&#8482 wrote:

I bet their cashflow won't be great in the first few years. Are first time buyers full of money?

12 GIGS is rubbish tbh, u can upgrade the speed to 100mbps for a period on demand (this is not available yet- neither is VOD- what a supprise) then your cap won't last long. If i had 2mb i'd be watching movies legally off something like hollywood.com and fix cctv up to the net so i can keep an eye on the place while away. Wow, 12 gigs would go far there. What a waste of a service.

Would you be watching the cctv live feed 24/7? No.. Would you be watching movies 24/7? No.. Is it legal to watch movies in Ireland from a US site. I don't know but I doubt it. Theres a disclaimer on the Hollywood site about use outside the US.

For some reason people think people who want 2mb are only people who download a lot. Whereas I'm sure that there are people who are only on the web for a hour or so a day, but want it to be as fast as possible when they are online. Or maybe people who telework and fast access into their companies network, and to email large files and access online applications etc. But not need to download loads of data. Maybe access to realtime data etc.

aphex™ · 04-02-2005 12:18am

RicardoSmith wrote:

For some reason people think people who want 2mb are only people who download a lot. Whereas I'm sure that there are people who are only on the web for a hour or so a day, but want it to be as fast as possible when they are online. Or maybe people who telework and fast access into their companies network, and to email large files and access online applications etc. But not need to download loads of data. Maybe access to realtime data etc.

The whole idea as the internet gets faster is to do more things on it. Not restrict it. I might have the cctv on all day if i wanted to, if i had 2/3 kids the 12GB wouldn't last long. I could also run a webserver off it and perhaps get some set top box made like tivo that lets me watch stuff i've recorded wherever i have an internet connection.

The possibilities are endless, but Magnet have limited it. In 10 years speeds will be ALOT faster, and people will do more stuff over the net, why wait that long if the service is there now?

CuLT · 04-02-2005 12:23am

RicardoSmith wrote:

How on earth can you use 12GB in two days? Every two days? How are you getting your 6GB a day at the moment?

Mind your own god damn business.
I want to be able to do a lot of data transfer, so do many others who want broadband products.

All that rubbish is the major use of the internet???

Which means what, exactly? It uses feck all in terms of bandwidth, with email and flight booking/goods purchasing, the difference between 512k and 2MB/s is negligible.

I can see instances where you might need a bit download every so often, theres a Service pack, or distro release or a demo or two. But not every day of the year.

Your ignorance is not my concern.

RicardoSmith · 04-02-2005 12:54am

You don't have to buy this product, there are valid uses for fast access with a low cap. Because that doesn't suit you, theres no need to throw the toys out of the pram. Its also bit pointless posting something to a forum that you don't want to discuss. :rolleyes:

The possibilities are endless. But theres a cost factor. The service isn't "here" now. If it was this thread wouldn't exist.

CuLT · 04-02-2005 12:00pm

RicardoSmith wrote:

You don't have to buy this product, there are valid uses for fast access with a low cap.

And thus I shouldn't complain about a product I find inferior? Cram it.

Because that doesn't suit you, theres no need to throw the toys out of the pram. Its also bit pointless posting something to a forum that you don't want to discuss. :rolleyes:

Where did I say I didn't want to discuss it? I just don't have the inclination to tell you what I want a capless or near capless product for. It's not important. Businesses operate on the principal of "supply and demand", maybe you're not aware of this?
As is shown all across America and Europe, there is demand for uncapped, high speed Internet products. What the user does with that is none of the Internet providers concern, they are "mere conduits".

The possibilities are endless. But theres a cost factor. The service isn't "here" now. If it was this thread wouldn't exist.

Which is why we're once again discussing it? There are people from these various service providers who read these forums in an "official" capacity, talking about it here is a method of feedback.

Chalk · 04-02-2005 12:09pm

i thought the only valid argument for a cap is that it uses bandwith the isp cant spare, ie contention.

if theres no contention then theres no need for a cap?

with ftth cant they offer much higher speeds than 2 meg,
i thought they could.

according to there claims they have a service that is capable of massive things , yet there crippling it for no particular reason.

to me previous point,
i rang up
them "where do you live"
me oss the road from the housing estate you offer the service too"
them "only available in that estate"
me "that estate is expected to be finished mid 2006"

end of conversation

im not sure whats goin on with it at all

Moriarty · 04-02-2005 12:21pm

Keep it civil please.

Shiny · 04-02-2005 2:09pm

ciaranfo wrote:

So it's E30 a month to get 2Mbit/2Mbit a second with a 12GB cap..

or it's E38 a month to get 512Kbit/128Kbit a second with a 8GB cap..

I'd go for the former

you forgot

E48 a month to get 1Mbit/1Mbit a second with no cap.

I'd go for that one!!!

hehe

Chalk · 04-02-2005 2:14pm

Shiny wrote:

you forgot

E48 a month to get 1Mbit/1Mbit a second with no cap.

I'd go for that one!!! hehe

are you making up your own priceplan?

where did you get that from?

Shiny · 04-02-2005 2:24pm

Chalk wrote:

are you making up your own priceplan?

where did you get that from?

em irish broadband......

did i miss something.....

are we only referring to wired operators ????

very confused now.

but thats what im paying........

Chalk · 04-02-2005 2:27pm

ohh

i thought we were talking about www.magnet.ie as per the thread starter

SkepticOne · 04-02-2005 3:22pm

12 megs at 2 mbit/sec is far better than the same amount of cap on 512k/sec. Although you can't download any more than on 512k, when you want a particular file, you can get if faster. You don't have to wait around as long. That is one of the main benefits of broadband.

I would prefer to have a larger cap or no cap, but other things being equal, the faster the connection the better.

I think the main problem would be for people who can't control their downloading. These people would tend to run out of cap very fast on this sort of service. Not a big deal for most people though.

I can see this being a selling point for houses in some areas. A few thousand added to the house price is not much given the insane amounts people are prepared to borrow for houses in this country. I don't see it being used in already built housing estates. I don't think Eircom will be worried or influenced by this.

Hornet · 04-02-2005 6:08pm

For some people a cap is a BIG problem. Fine! No discussion about it. They need an uncapped service.

For other people (the vast majority) a cap of 8 or 12 Gbyte is NO problem.

I agree with RicardoSmith, when he wonders what in goods name people download, but hey, if it floats your boat, go for it.

HOWEVER, don't necessarily expect that you get the lowest price or that products are tailored necessarily for the small percentage of users with MASSIVE download requirements.

On the other hand, it seems to me that a number of people assume that a 12 Gbyte cap will be there for eternity. Starting at a launch of a product with 12 Gbyte doesn't mean that in a few months or in a year the cap could be doubled, quadrupled or removed.

I think a 2 Mbit/s service for such a good price is a MASSIVE improvement over what we have today and I welcome such a development. Yes, it is very much limited to one location, yes, there are some questions over the contention issue, yes, for some no cap would be prefered.

But would it not make sense to even praise a service provider who is strong enough to break with the tradition of delivering "me too" services and subsequently to lobby for changes instead of dissing a service for one single slightly unsuitable parameter??

--Hornet

Chalk · 04-02-2005 6:42pm

most people arent mentioning the lowest priced product, just the fact that the 1 or 2 uncapped or large capped services are unavailable to most.

many people would gladly pay for a quality , fast, uncapped service but have no option.

this is then made worse when a company which , on the surface, has the resources to offer a better service merely goes with what every one else has

2mb w/12gig for 30
surely then they could offer a much higher cap without a speed increase for 50-60 euro?

Steve S · 04-02-2005 9:42pm

If it's only available in one housing estate that doesn't exist yet, I'd say this is either:

1) a scam;

2) some sort of calculation on the part of the ISP that €30/month for 2mbps up and down will not be cheap by the time that housing estate is finished, but they will have signed people up for it in advance.

RicardoSmith · 04-02-2005 10:24pm

CuLT wrote:

....Where did I say I didn't want to discuss it?....

CuLT wrote:

..Mind your own god damn business...

... as for the rest...

I was only putting forward a valid business case for a capped but fast 1m/2m product. Either you can see that or you can't. Incidentally I only asked you what product are you currently using that allows 6gb a day, every day. That would be helpful info for others.

If as you suggest there are providers monitoring this thread, then why not tell them, (if not me for some reason) why you need an uncapped service, and thus provide example of its use. I can only think of business reasons myself. People working with digital media and the like.

elvis2002 · 04-02-2005 10:52pm

Look its quite easy to download 10 Gigs in a day on a 2MB line. In college I might download 1 gig of stuff in 30 minutes, granted its a faster line in college but if I had the 2mb at home i could just go asleep and let it go over night.

Movies are 1.4 gig a piece usually, what if i download 6 movies a month, that would be be 8 Gigs right there. Maybe some games, That could be the whole 12 GB's right there in one day. Two DVD games is going to burn that cap to pieces.

Anybody who would want this speed, wants to leech like a motherfooker, a normal user would have no use for something like this. Email.. pfft.

OfflerCrocGod · 04-02-2005 11:21pm

elvis2002 wrote:

Email.. pfft.

Look at my 2Mb/s e-mail connection! WOW! I've never seen e-mails downloaded so quickly!

SkepticOne · 05-02-2005 12:54am

elvis2002 wrote:

Look its quite easy to download 10 Gigs in a day on a 2MB line. In college I might download 1 gig of stuff in 30 minutes, granted its a faster line in college but if I had the 2mb at home i could just go asleep and let it go over night.

This is why ISPs impose caps.

Steve S · 05-02-2005 9:13am

SkepticOne wrote:

This is why ISPs impose caps.

Sorry, but that's not an explanation.

Mutant_Fruit · 05-02-2005 12:27pm

The average user (as most people claim) doesn't need a huge cap, because they don't download many large files.

So why the f**k would they need a 2 meg line? They don't. The reason being the same one that argued that a 12 gig cap is more than enough. The only point in faster connections (in my opinion) is to allow people to download more, and at a faster speed.

Anyone that needs the extra speed boost supplied by a 2meg line more than likely needs to download more than 12 gigs a month. But, if offers like this do get more widespread, then i think it will help to get better offers in the future. I think its obvious that no ISP wants to release 2 meg uncapped for EUR30 a month, because it would be so much better than any other existing offer. They're going to play it safe, and go one bit better than the competitors each time. No point in going 10 steps ahead needlessly.

jbkenn · 05-02-2005 1:16pm

elvis2002 wrote:

Look its quite easy to download 10 Gigs in a day on a 2MB line. In college I might download 1 gig of stuff in 30 minutes, granted its a faster line in college but if I had the 2mb at home i could just go asleep and let it go over night.

Movies are 1.4 gig a piece usually, what if i download 6 movies a month, that would be be 8 Gigs right there. Maybe some games, That could be the whole 12 GB's right there in one day. Two DVD games is going to burn that cap to pieces.

Anybody who would want this speed, wants to leech like a motherfooker, a normal user would have no use for something like this. Email.. pfft.

Eircom, EsatBT, Utv, Netsource etc. for Broadband
Xtravision for movies

jbkenn

SkepticOne · 05-02-2005 1:17pm

Mutant_Fruit wrote:

So why the f**k would they need a 2 meg line? They don't. The reason being the same one that argued that a 12 gig cap is more than enough. The only point in faster connections (in my opinion) is to allow people to download more, and at a faster speed.

The average user in Ireland right now probably doesn't percieve a need for higher speeds (many are reasonably happy on dial-up), however I think it is a mistake to assume that downloading more is the main reason for wanting higher speeds for everyone although this will certainly be true for some. Even without being able to download more, it is very nice to be able to get whatever files you want faster than you currently do and not have to wait. I think this is underestimated on this forum. If you download a program, a patch or linux ISO, it is nice to get this as quickly as possible rather than have to come back later. Your requirement for these files won't necessarily go up just because you can get them quicker.

However, when people talk about the fact that once they have a higher speed connection, they will then proceed to download more (see elvis2002's last post), then they are inadvertantly asking to be capped on their downloads because this allows the ISP to keep costs down and thereby compete with other offers.

It is like a group of chronic overeaters campaigning for all-you-can-eat buffets in restaraunts. Doesn't work. If people could keep quiet about how they were going to saturate whatever connection they have, then caps may have not got established in Ireland. It is sad that caps have become the norm in Ireland. In other countries it is the brave ISP that moves to introduce caps (e.g. NTL in Britain). In Ireland the reverse is true.

RicardoSmith · 05-02-2005 5:50pm

Theres many situations where you'd use 2mb but not need to download massive amounts of data. Many here can't grasp that, can't or see past their own requirements of movies, music, games and sofware. Theres many applications beyond that VPN's, teleworking, financial data, web enabled applications, databases etc.

Steve S · 05-02-2005 6:24pm

Similarly, there are many perfectly legal and legitimate situations where you'd need uncapped broadband at home: exchanging large files with servers at work is only one example.

The assumption that all those needing uncapped access are pirates and that, therefore, uncapped access is unnecessary is a false one.

And the fact is that the rest of the world has uncapped access (or caps so large as to be effectively uncapped). Why don't we? Oh, wait, I forgot: it's because we're right out there on the cutting edge and this is the way the world is going.

Except for it isn't, no more than that is the way that voice telecommunications (where the price is dropping to close to free and the service is unlimited) is going.

vibe666 · 05-02-2005 8:19pm

ANYONE that NEEDS a 2mbps connection for ANYTHING is going to find a 12gb cap woefully inadequite. whether it's for work or play. it's like buying a lame racehorse. the potential is there, but you won't get the performance you need out of it. there isn't anything you can do on a 2mbps connection with a 12gb cap that you couldn't do on a 512kbps line with a 16gb cap.

okay so you get what you want quicker, but what's the point if you end up getting LESS overall?

Gone West · 05-02-2005 8:32pm

well whats wrong with the speed being 2mb/s? Would people be happier with 512k? Ordinary people probably dont need the extra speeds, but it would be nice to have extra fast internet, wouldn't it? In France you can get 20mb/s ADSL2+ for 20-30 euro per month.

On another note, the maximum theoretical amount you could download each day is about 20gigs.

PiE · 05-02-2005 8:36pm

"I have no need for a higher cap, or indeed an uncapped service, so why on earth should you!"

Jesus.

H.

Christ.

The very same people who'd be the first to sign up to a higher cap service if pressure on the ISP's got it done.

RicardoSmith · 05-02-2005 8:44pm

Steve S wrote:

Similarly, there are many perfectly legal and legitimate situations where you'd need uncapped broadband at home: exchanging large files with servers at work is only one example. The assumption that all those needing uncapped access are pirates and that, therefore, uncapped access is unnecessary is a false one.....

Thats true. But no so far has offered any examples of them.

vibe666 wrote:

ANYONE that NEEDS a 2mbps connection for ANYTHING is going to find a 12gb cap woefully inadequite....
okay so you get what you want quicker, but what's the point if you end up getting LESS overall?

PiE wrote:

"I have no need for a higher cap, or indeed an uncapped service, so why on earth should you!"

See neither of these viewpoints accept that there use cases for a capped 2mb or an uncapped product. Both are wrong IMO.

Gone West · 05-02-2005 8:50pm

PiE wrote:

"I have no need for a higher cap, or indeed an uncapped service, so why on earth should you!"

Wow this guy is both arrogant and ignorant at the same time. If he doesn't need high cap/no cap internet, then why should anyone else? Mabye other people have different needs than you, PiE.

Moriarty · 05-02-2005 8:55pm

I think you'll find that's what his point was aswell, fuzzylogic.

Mutant_Fruit · 05-02-2005 9:33pm

Fuzz, notice the quotation marks around Pi's statement. He was quoting someone else :P

As for a legitmate use of broadband that you'd easily break 12 gigs with, there was a service i was beta testing a while ago which let you pay X amount per month, and you could play games off its server. I.e. you streamed the game to your HD and played it through a special program, which decrpted the game on the fly so you could play it. (if you know what i mean). It was a 100% legal service, but unfortunately it just didn't work well on 512/512 at all. You would need 2meg for that service.

Of course, these kind of streaming services will never kick off to the big market until we all have faster speeds, and then the pressure will be up for bigger caps.

2mb for less than €30 allegedly

Comments