Kneecap - New Footage *Read OP for Mod Warning*

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123491483#Comment_123491483

I can only go on their words.

They clearly called on people to kill their local Tory MP. Are you saying it was a jape? That an Irish republican group can joke about killing Tory MPs? Seriously, are you really suggesting that?

Seathrun66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123491478#Comment_123491478

They never waved a flag. MC picked it off the floor and put it over his shoulders.

They never used art as an excuse, just stated categorically on 28 April that they don't support those two organisations. That ain't hard to grasp is it?

Seathrun66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123491483#Comment_123491483

David Bowie stating that Hitler was 'the first rock star', saying that Britain could benefit from a fascist leader, giving a Nazi salute at Victoria Station and being arrested on the Russian/Polish border for possessing Nazi paraphernalia. Though he was VERY VERY coked up for the entire duration.

He also had the good fortune of not criticising the UK government for selling arms to genocidal fanatics.

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123491443#Comment_123491443

Hence you seem to be informed you are still failing at delivering that context to simple minds as I'm. It is splendidly done on your side to avoid any answers, but I'm starving to hear something of a value from your side. Please?

Seathrun66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123491508#Comment_123491508

You ask about Kneecap's attitude to Hamas and Hezbollah. They provided it on 28 April.

There was nothing vague there but maybe you should seek a private audience to ask the same (answered) question over and over again.

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123491532#Comment_123491532

So far they provided sweet fook all, bar from the smoke screen.

Excuse my language.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123491490#Comment_123491490

I"ve seen this excuse a few times. Without being rude does Mo Chara have an intellectual disability of some sort?

Is he well known for being compelled to pick up and wear anything that arrives on stage? Are Kneecap gigs covered in signs "Do Not Throw Items on Stage" like the "Do Not Feed" signs at a zoo? Is it only dumb luck he didn't end up forced into donning an Israeli flag/swastika/naughty nurse and proclaiming support for Netanyahu/Hitler/NHS?

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123491692#Comment_123491692

They never waved a flag. MC picked it off the floor and put it over his shoulders.

Maybe he was just cold and lonely.

Edit: What would be the probability out of all shít thrown at stage to randomly pick Hezbollah's flag and find it so comforting.. Maybe it was one those of good quality.

Choochtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123491484#Comment_123491484

I am 100% saying with total and absolute confidence that Kneecap were NOT requesting that a member or members of their audience go and kill an MP.

I also don't think that Morrissey wanted anyone to hang the DJ or Iron Maiden wanted their fans to bring their daughters to the slaughter.

Are you seriously saying that you think Kneecap were wanting or instructing someone to commit murder?

Seriously?

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123491765#Comment_123491765

I think it says a lot about Kneecap's real feelings about the Isreal Palestinian conflict when their fans bring Hezbollah flags to their gigs and throw them on stage, obviously for the band members to pick up.

I mean if you didn't think the band had an affinity for that type of terrorist paraphernalia then why bring it in the first place?

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123491484#Comment_123491484

"You can only go on their words"?

Words like

"Let us be unequivocal: we do not, and have never, supported Hamas or Hezbollah. We condemn all attacks on civilians, always. It is never okay. We know this more than anyone, given our nation's history."

?

I don't think Jello Biafra of Dead Kennedy's was calling on their audience to, "Kill the poor", do you?

Or when Bodycount perform, "Copkiller", are they seriously suggesting their audience go out and kill a cop?

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123492303#Comment_123492303

So those words are true but "Up Hamas" isn't, thats cleared things up.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123490803#Comment_123490803

You must be kneecap's PR team because you are going around in similar circles of confusion. Yet, you accuse others of "whataboutery" when it suits you.

The reality is not only do you know the game Kneecap are playing. You parrot their narrative.

Yet (ironically) you seem to be in agreement with me that Kneecap's primary motivations seem to be to create outrage, and thereby make money from this conflict at a very safe distance thousands of miles away.

The next time I am at a GAA match and see a person draped in the flag of a county, I will now know that they don't support that team. They are just draped in the flag because it just so happened to be lying there.

Just look at these images again.

November 2024 London.

Two Kneecap band members stand triumphant behind Liam draped in a Hezbollah flag. Behind the two gents to the left was a man videoing the concert professionally, this does not look like an "artform" to me.

Also in this image the Hezbollah flag is clearly held up by Liam deliberately showing the front of the flag, and Hezbollah emblem to the crowd.

This is the legislation that Kneecap (Liam) are being charged under

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/section/13

Section 13 of that act wherein -

13 Uniform [F1 publication of images].

(1)A person in a public place commits an offence if he—
(a)wears an item of clothing, or
(b)wears, carries or displays an article,

in such a way or in such circumstances as to arouse reasonable suspicion that he is a member or supporter of a proscribed organisation.

[F2(1A)A person commits an offence if the person publishes an image of—
(a)an item of clothing, or
(b)any other article,

In such a way or in such circumstances as to arouse reasonable suspicion that the person is a member or supporter of a proscribed organisation.

(3)A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to—

(a)imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months,

(b)a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or

(c)both.

—

Take away the fact that it is Kneecap for a moment, how would you defend yourself from a charge under s13 of the TA 2000 ?

To me the evidence seems very clear. And does not in anyway seem accidental. If anything, those involved seem to revel in excitement that the Hezbollah flag is there. It was not as if it was quickly thrown away. It became a central focus.

—

Also, this may not help Kneecap's defence.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123492321#Comment_123492321

Or, "I can only go by their words- unless I choose to not believe them." Definitely cleared up 😂

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123492326#Comment_123492326

I'm sure that book was thrown at Provai. Obviously not something he'd want to read, no more than Mo Chara he must have a intellectual issue that is forcing him to read it against his will.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123492334#Comment_123492334

These kind of comments are really showing you up, tbh.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123492340#Comment_123492340

In what way? Its you guys that are furiously trying to excuse the Kneecap boys from bearing any responsibility for their actions and decisions they make.

I assume you realise Kneecap aren't pre-teens who you may forgive for poor decisions. They are grown adults so why are you and Seathrun treating them like children? Unless of course they have a development issue that means they never grew up past age 12.

Why are they to be treated as baby's?

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123492346#Comment_123492346

We're treating them like performing artists and you're treating them like terrorists.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123492347#Comment_123492347

But by Kneecap making such statements and glorifying such symbolism, they have prima facie broken the law. They wouldn’t be able to be charged otherwise.
Such actions, lead to consequences in the real world.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123492347#Comment_123492347

They are being treated as how their behaviour requires. Hold up and wear terrorist flags get treated like a terrorist.

Choochtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123492326#Comment_123492326

Thanks for that. I'm more convinced than ever that these ridiculous charges will get quashed.

You actually think that there's proof that an artist from West Belfast is a member or supporter of Hezbollah even when he's made a public statement to the contrary?

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123492370#Comment_123492370

I disagree. We can't prosecute what happens on a stage unless someone is physically assaulted. That freedom needs to be protected.

Laws are not universal, contrary to opinion.

I've seen many a bad tackle or fighting in sports that would be assault elsewhere, but because it happens on a pitch, it won't be legally sanctioned.

If MC was waving a Hezbollah flag at a protest, or just walking down the street, fair enough. Arrest the man. He was on stage, performing, so no, no crime in my eyes.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123492378#Comment_123492378

So you think they're terrorists now?

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123492380#Comment_123492380

“Thanks for that. I'm more convinced than ever that these ridiculous charges will get quashed. “

I said at the start of this that charges would be a waste of time in this case as it was obvious to me at least, that they weren’t advocating support for Hezbollah per se.

And while my patience ran thin with their supporters and the band themselves playing wataboutery and diversionary tactics to the degree I couldn’t care less what happened to them, from a legal perspective, the bar of guilt is actually quite low in this law.

The fact that after a police investigation (anti terrorism police at that) and the CPS deciding he has a case to answer, and coupled with the bands/managers response as the investigation was in progress, I’m not so sure he will get off.

”Reasonable suspicion” is the bar- that’s very low.

I’m assuming a fan shot the video in question on their phone and uploaded it. And he likely didn’t know about the video being online (let’s assume).
The video portrayed the chap wrapping the flag around him- to those people there on the night, and to subsequent people who viewed the video- it could easily be determined that “reasonable suspicion” exists in this case- especially if you’re not familiar with the band and just see the video or had attended their concert not knowing much about them.

While I go back to my initial reaction to this- there shouldn’t be a prosecution- I don’t think either side are doing themselves any favours here.

Seathrun66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123491638#Comment_123491638

Maybe it's time for you to read their statement of 28 April.

Seathrun66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123491692#Comment_123491692

You gave the wrong information. Hence I corrected it.

Choochtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123492478#Comment_123492478

If it's "obvious" to you that they "weren’t advocating support for Hezbollah" then surely it also will be to a judge (or jury if it's raised to that)?

Particularly if we're in the realms of innocent until proven guilty.

Unless of course there's a suggestion that more sinister influences are at play here.

Seathrun66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123492326#Comment_123492326

He'll opt for a jury trial. MC won't take a chance on the magistrates or district judge being unduly influenced by the MoJ. Twelve of his peers is a better bet. Do you believe they'll convict him as either?

1. A member of Hezbollah (no chance)
2. A supporter of Hezbollah (offering funds, recruiting, etc rather than picking up a flag and draping it on his shoulder mid-performance)

The jury will have flexibility and may ignore directions from the judge as they often do. The platform he'll have both inside and outside the court and the publicity around the case is an astonishing own-goal for the government. There's such a strong chance the govt/CPS will lose that they'd likely prefer the lesser indignity of dropping the charges rather than the worse indignity of losing the case.

This will be a jury trial. MC and the band will want their moment in court. Starmer, his cabinet and the arms dealers they've given export licences to will come off very badly. The winners here are Kneecap and the people of Gaza.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123492380#Comment_123492380

The charges will get squashed because Kneecap will lie in court and pretend that they didn't know it was a flag of a terrorist organisation, that they were ignorant of the meaning, and that they didn't understand the symbolism.

Seathrun66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123492999#Comment_123492999

Not their style. They'll go in all guns blazing. The offence is relatively minor with light sentencing so MC has little to lose. Pretty sure the charges will be quashed or withdrawn.