Kneecap - New Footage *Read OP for Mod Warning*

DireD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494319#Comment_123494319

funny you have to say. the police force that is in charge of old firm derbies 6 times a year and has no problem over seeing matching season in july now seemingly not able to control a kneecap appearance.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123493996#Comment_123493996

True- but now there’s UK at least legislation in play - I personally believe this is a total waste of time - but we live in different times and even “rock n roll” needs to conform- sometimes - there were other ways to make a point without associating themselves with a terrorist organisation - they’re simply not intelligent or articulate enough to do that

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494315#Comment_123494315

My understanding was this would be a judge only hearing- have I got that wrong? Is it magistrate first and then if decided it’s too serious, it goes to crown court and a jury trial if not guilty plea?

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494319#Comment_123494319

While I think the band themselves are complete idiots - I don’t agree they should be dropped over this - innocent and all of that

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494449#Comment_123494449

Ah, to be honest, the setting that they were due to play at (size of stage, access in and out, , large police presence at an inclusion themed festival etc) is an important factor in the decision to pull them from the lineout.

The fact their able to play their own stand alone gig at the Glasgow O2 shows that it's particular to TRNSMT and not a blanket "no kneecap" issue.

sydthebeat

As usual Billy bragg puts it better than any of us here could....

“The charging of Kneecap’s Liam Óg Ó hAnnaidh with a terrorism offence by the Metropolitan Police is the latest development of a disturbing and broader trend over the past few years during which the state has sought to criminalise creative expression.

“Since 2005, there have been over 100 cases in which prosecutors have put lyrics, music videos and audio recordings in front of juries to help secure criminal convictions… Specifically, police and prosecutors have used the act of writing, performing, or even engaging with rap music to suggest motive, intention, or propensity for criminal behaviour.”

Rap has always had a provocative edge and Kneecap are a radical part of that tradition. The fact that this prosecution has proceeded despite the band making it clear that they do not support Hamas or Hezbollah, and condemn all attacks on civilians, is illustrative of the manner in which the police are misrepresenting creative expression to suggest criminal activity.

“It’s a classic ‘gotcha’, a single instance of transgressive speech taken out of context and put before a jury to secure a conviction despite the lack of any corroborating evidence. In a manifestation of institutional racism, Black men and boys continue to be stereotyped by police seeking to send them to prison for writing lyrics, performing songs, or in some cases simply having a provocative tune on their phone.”

https://artnotevidence.org/

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494319#Comment_123494319

It was on the cards once the Scottish FM stated they should be removed. The amount of political and policing pressure to remove them was huge.

The BBC in Scotland had the audicity to state Kneecap pulled out as well!

https://twitter.com/BBCWestScot/status/1927778512141787324

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494546#Comment_123494546

Can you elaborate on the setting as I have been to TRNSMT in Glasgow Green before and I do not recognise the issues?

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494603#Comment_123494603

Same issues that got king tuts stage closed off for Example last year, and Becky hill in 2021. The area is too small for crowd drawn to some acts, and you can be sure kneecap right now are bigger than 50 cent who is headlining on the main stage.

As you've been there you know the area is not an especially large clearing surrounded on two sides by a tree line and the river to one side and food stalls etc to the other. The stage forms the other boundary. Essentially 3 sides of the area are enclosed.

I guess the police are worried that the draw would be so big that the crowd might look for alternative access through fenced off areas and that would be difficult to police and could cause major safety risk.

0ph0rce0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494649#Comment_123494649

So put them on the main stage and headline. Where they belong.

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494649#Comment_123494649

The police (and security) always have to deal with folk attempting to get into the festival. It is standard access protection for these kind of events.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494656#Comment_123494656

That would make sense but think of the optics

Seathrun66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494442#Comment_123494442

Magistrates court (3 magistrates though a district judge could be appointed). There's the option of proceeding or asking for a jury trial which Mo Chara will do as he would never trust a public official (or officials) who could be unduly influenced by the MoJ.

The government have tried to intimidate the band. Hasn't worked. They're now hoping that MC would quietly express contrition and opt for a slap on the wrist. Won't happen. Thus in the run-up to a jury trial there will be enormous focus on the UK enabling of a genocide and their arming of the protagonists, their attempt to silence a band and the unpopularity of their stance on Gaza (regular UK polling shows negativity towards the murder in Gaza). The chances of the charges being quashed by a jury are also high so the CPS may drop them. MC walking out after an acquital is bad for Starmer. Him and his government have stupidly picked the wrong fight.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494663#Comment_123494663

I'm not talking about getting into the festival, I'm taking about accessing the king tuts stage area. It's been closed due to crowd pressure for what I would consider "lesser draws" and I can certainly see adminstrative worries about the crowd that kneecap could draw, considering who they are most likely up against on the main stage.

Seathrun66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494649#Comment_123494649

We'd discussed this a few days ago. Had to be moved to main stage.

Same regarding Glasto where the 30,000 West Holts capacity is now too small so the Other Stage is required for them.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494588#Comment_123494588

I’ve been a fan of Billy Bragg since the 80s- he’s wrong on this - there is no evidence to date that this band used the flag of Hezbollah in a setting of “transgressive speech” - and also there are laws now- lots of laws - that prohibit statements and symbolism that previously wouldn’t have been subject to prosecution - the 80s is a long way away now-whether a good or not so good thing, the laws are in place that prohibit statements and acts that can be “reasonably” interpreted as terrorism - and the legal authorities as we know, are quite willing and in some cases, desperate to prosecute such cases

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494698#Comment_123494698

Got it, that is why I did not recognise the issues as I generally have been at the main stage

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494691#Comment_123494691

Fighting words- but all supposition - we will just have to wait and see - even if it moves to a jury trial - “distraction” of “but but Gaza” won’t matter an iota - the jury will decide based on the evidence

Seathrun66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494435#Comment_123494435

Whilst you make some good points throughout this thread I've got to disagree on your assessment of the lads. They're very smart, consistently witty and extremely articulate. Have a look at the Ray Goggins TV show broadcast last week (they accompanied him to the Arctic) or any of their TV interviews - Late Late Show, etc. They're very politically and culturally knowledgeable and have no problem in getting their points across.

https://www.tiktok.com/@rteone/video/7506494547510234390

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494703#Comment_123494703

And the BBC wouldn't broadcast Gerry Adams voice in the 80s by request of the British government.

The longer this goes on the more and more it screams political policing.

Everything, of course, is opinion. Billy has his, I have mine and you have yours.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494718#Comment_123494718

I don’t rate them highly in terms of articulation - and this incidence certainly shouldn’t have been allowed happen in the first instance - but I also take your point - I don’t know them well enough - but that’s part of the issue here -and very much the legal point - communication is all about the interpretation - that’s where I feel they have erred - they need to explain and articulate- in a legal setting - that’s not easy - Kenny Everett at the mid 80s Tory conference came out on stage and said “Let’s Bomb Russia”- to great applause - he was a comedian- he also liked taking loads of money from political parties for “gigs” - I put the whole kneecap thing in probably a similar bucket to what Kenny did- unfortunately for kneecap and unlike Kenny -who picked a country to bomb that pretty much most people at the time deserved to be bombed -there are laws in place now and little public support for Hesbollah

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494588#Comment_123494588

Surely your talking about Drill rap, where the imbecilic little gs include specific threats or boasts about the crimes that they end up on trial for

Drill and rap music on trial

Drill rapper Kammar Henry-Richards jailed for life for gang rival Kacey Boothe's revenge murder | UK News | Sky News

I mean there's Stupid , and there there's really fkn stupid but its hardly censoring art now is it.

Seathrun66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494712#Comment_123494712

Why would MC put the decision in the hands of a politically appointed district judge (or chief magistrate) who could be unduly influenced? Won't happen when he has the option of a jury of 12 of his peers, much more difficult for the powers that be to influence.

The govt/MoJ will then be in damage limitation mode as this case, already a cause célèbre, will attract ever-increasing attention. NONE of which will reflect well on the government. They're already awaiting a High Court verdict on illegal arms deals with Israel, the case taken by GLAN and Al-Haq. There's really little supposition to this.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494722#Comment_123494722

“The longer this goes on the more and more it screams political policing.”

It may well be - there are separation of powers of law and politics but as we know worldwide, there is a lot more instances of politically motivated prosecutions - however, I don’t believe this is necessarily “contrived” or politically motivated-there is ample instances of pathetic cases brought against UK citizens that simply should never have been instigated - it doesn’t take political pressure for the UK crown prosecution service to initiate idiotic criminal cases

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494748#Comment_123494748

I honestly don’t know what the legal set up will be on the day- do we know for sure a jury trial is open to them? That was the question I asked above?

If it is, then legal counsel will be his go-to for advice - the key question being- what has a better chance of a positive outcome - jury or judge? I would be inclined to agree, better chance with jury over judge, given what I’ve seen of this low bar of proof in the legislation

Seathrun66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494736#Comment_123494736

You'll lose little time in watching the Goggins programme, reading the odd Kneecap interview or watching brief interviews. They're very informed, clear and articulate on what they discuss. You may not agree with any of what they say but they do say it well. J. J. Ó Dochartaigh for starters was a schoolteacher who had to communicate his thoughts to his pupils and is an experienced public speaker.

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494427#Comment_123494427

Indeed, nine Orange marches this Sunday across Glasgow… no doubt with some banners and flags of proscribed organisations on them

Seathrun66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494769#Comment_123494769

He has the option of a jury hearing, which would be set for several weeks later. I've stated this several times above and I worked for two decades in this system in England. He will demand a jury irrespective of what legal advice he receives.

He will not want a conviction which is a near-certainty from a DJ or Chief Magistrate who will be instructed from above. In a political case like this he will not get a fair hearing unless he opts for a jury trial. He knows this. His solicitor knows this and the barrister they instruct will also know this. It's a fait accompli.

Oscar_Madison

Here is an up to date example of one fcking mad and bad jury decision in the UK- ANYONE who has relatives who suffer from either dementia or infection delirium (which is very common in older people I might add) are disgusted at this jury decision- I would have put money on these officers been found guilty - so guys, I wouldn’t be placing huge faith in the UK jury system

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14757771/Police-officers-Tasered-pepper-sprayed-92-year-old-amputee-care-home-not-guilty-assault.html

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494722#Comment_123494722

And the BBC wouldn't broadcast Gerry Adams voice in the 80s by request of the British government.

And the BBC were late to that party.

For many years before that we here in Ireland had Section 31 of the Broadcasting Act which prohibited the broadcast of audio from any representative of SF.

Not even a voice over like British stations did, on RTE you just saw the SF person talking but the audio was muted.