Escaping renting

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122934594#Comment_122934594

It's an argument I have heard so many times from people defending things like not building up, and the inadequate number of rail lines. That and the ridiculous save the skyline campaign.

506972617465

When I was young and naíve I also thought that buying is escaping renting. And hey presto, not long after they introduced my beloved Local Property Tax. You think you can just buy a house to live in? F-you! You'll be paying a subscription forever. Bin charges got out of hand too, now Greyhound are charging 80c "admin fees" every month to extort even more money. God forbid we weren't putting the bins out every time they collect. They have to make up for this somehow, don't they? Remember the free green bins that at some stage were "only going to be charged 50c because of exceptional trouble in China"? Now it's more like €5, for that, Greyhound, you can sort my rubbish yourselves, no more green BS. The roof had to be replaced - back in the good old days I got away with only €7.5k. Boiler stopped working after 10 years. Well, good luck finding someone reasonable to come and fix it without taking my dog, my car, an arm and a leg. Everything is on you and owning a house is a money pit. And you know what's best? That officially it's the bank you have a mortgage with who are the owners. Well, except paying the property tax, of course. They you're the owner.

Rant over, my apologies. I had to get it out of the system. I wish everyone a great Saturday night.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122934910#Comment_122934910

So you’re paying for your accommodation and associated services.

Where’s the problem, and why the rant?

Viscount Aggro

Not paying for refuse collection?.. this is being monitored too, that's a scare story they put out.

thereiver

You can get a survey before you buy a house this points out things that might need fixing in the next 10 years. In the long run buying is cheaper than renting unless you live in the middle of nowhere even if you rent you,ll still have to pay for rubbish collection .the property tax is very low . Would you prefer to pay 1500 to rent a house .?

I think you are lucky you can get a mortgage and buy a house .your house is going up in value every year . In the long term buying a house is a good investment .

The economy is booming builders and plumbers are very busy. Of course it's expensive to hire a good plumber .hold on to all receipts for repairs .in the future you may be able to claim maintenance expenses against Cgt tax .you can ask on forums for advice re how to find a tradesman who will not rip you off

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122934694#Comment_122934694

And yet the ability to get permission to build an apartment block on a given site, rather than a couple of detached houses, will mean that the developers will pay a lot more for that site …… because they can make more money from it!

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122935293#Comment_122935293

And YET builders are walking away from apartment blocks at present. It's the main cause of drop in unit numbers at present.

colm reilly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122930195#Comment_122930195

Complete rubbish

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122935386#Comment_122935386

Why would you rush to build now when there is a good chance you'll get 10% more next year if you just sit on your arse until then?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122935393#Comment_122935393

Which bit don't you understand? It's pretty simple as it is, but I can try to explain the bit you are having most difficult with.

Idbatterim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122935386#Comment_122935386

The "standards" they need to be built to, effectively many needing to be dual aspect, massively increases the price, along with high lift counts etc… This nonsense needs to be addressed and their viability would increase

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122935555#Comment_122935555

Costs will add 10% more to the price of building them. If its profitable builder will build. But if an apartment is more expensive than a similar sized house then buyers will not buy. A developer makes no profit if he is not getting a site build on. Sitting there it has costs. Having to reapply for planning will cost more than a year or twos profit.

As @Idbatterim pointed out building regulations is significantly adding to the costs. As well you need to finance the complete project and carry that finance for two years for more for maybe 100+units. In a development of 100 hundred houses you can be selling 10( and easily presell them) while having another 10 being build

Idbatterim

Also many developers still prefer building commercial, rather than residential, as it is more straight forward and profitable, whan an absolute joke. This needs to change, they urgently need to address some of the problems, that they control, about apartments being very expensive to build… the solutions are incredibly simple, they just dont want to address them… Also ban one bed apartments in my opinion, you can make it a 2 bed, for 15% extra surface area. It allows way more flexibility…

Mayve studio only or two beds… But like I said, they need to bring down the construction costs, the ex head of IRES Reit, was talking about how our "standards" massively effect the delivery cost, obviously… 40 year olds are living in their parents bedrooms and in typical irish fashion, there is no in between… Some of the regulations, are totally over the top and massively increasing cost…

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122935821#Comment_122935821

Why are you financing the build costs of a project which you postpone building for a year or two?

Anyway, explain to me why the price of a site will first jump from say 20k per acre agricultural value, to 100k per acre once it is zoned (an administrative decision), or that a site which would have made 500k with permission to build 5 townhouses (another administrative decision) suddenly jumps to 2m once permission is granted for a large block of apartments on that site? Is there a law - either human made, or physical law of nature - which forces such price increases? Or is it simply that the developers know that they can make more money, and hence are willing to pay more to secure that right?

The price of something is generally not set by what it is worth to you, but by what it is worth to the next person. If I am an artist who can take the trunk of a tree and make an artwork out of it that I can sell for 10k, but nobody else can do that, and the next person can just turn it into 100 Euro worth of planks, the price the trunk will be bought at will be closer to 100 Euro than 10k. Now if there is another artist who can buy it and turn it into a table for 5k, and such trunks are limited, then maybe the price I'll pay will be closer to 5k.

So in the example above, the competition driving the site price to 2m is likely not the beef farmer who could use it for grazing his cattle. And if the conclusion is that it is other apartment developers who are bidding it up to 2m, then why are they doing that? The only logical explanation is that they do so because they think they will make money on it in the future. If there is any other reason, then why is the seller settling for an unrealistic figure of 2m (assuming it is unrealistic) when they could just demand an even more unrealistic figure of 20m?

When Sean Dunne paid 50m+ per acre in Ballsbridge it was because he thought he would make money on it. Just because he did so didn't entitle him to be bailed out and gifted what he thought he would make. When he asked his missus to pluck a number between 1 and 100 out of the air, and then paid that amount for their house, it didn't magically make the house worth that (as apocryphal as the story may or may not be). If developers are overpaying for sites, then they need to bear the consequences of that.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122935873#Comment_122935873

Bring back the tenements!

(Tongue in cheek………..building standards, or lack of enforcement of same in past has left us with many headaches.)

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122934125#Comment_122934125

Find a partner to buy with like most people do.

Two people on 40k would get a mortgage of 320,000.

10% deposit brings that up to 352,000.

It is possible to find a property within Dublin for that.

thereiver

Of course sites with planning permission are expensive because builders know they can build x amount of apartments on it and it is near roads and bus lanes . It would not be good if anyone could build anywhere . There are plenty of empty houses in rural areas that can be bought if anyone wants to live there

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122936449#Comment_122936449

That wasn't the point. I honestly don't know how someone would take that from it.

The point was that, a site with permission to build 5 houses might go for 500k, but if it gets permission for a block of apartments, suddenly people are willing to pay 2m for it. Presumably the granting of permission for apartments doesn't manifest utilities and infrastructure out of thin air.

So why are developers willing to pay more for the site just because they can now build apartments there, if they will make a loss building apartments? The answer is that they pay more for the site because they can now make more money on the project than when it was 5 houses.

bodhrandude

OP do you not mean Escaping ranting?

Gael23

I can’t drive so would be impossible for me

thereiver

i think the city council doe,s not want dublin to look like new york with 20 storey high buildings.Thats part of the planning policy .They won,t get permission to build 50 apartments unless theres services like esb water in the area to supply the building. yes of course lets say 5 new houses sell for 400k each thats not really alot of profit a builder has to pay vat and other tax,s before they make a profit.

tom1ie

Delete

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122934125#Comment_122934125

Why buy when you can rent affordably?

https://lda.ie/affordable-homes/lda-cost-rental

These Are Facts

Buy a camper van?

Airyfairy12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122922389#Comment_122922389

This so much!! Why dont we have social housing in cities and towns exclusively for workers, anyone earning under 45k a year should be entitled to this, youd live beside other workers in similar jobs, it would create great communities and boost local spending. But no, they would rather build excessively to sell off the housing to vulture funds & create a helpless society of people on social welfare with no prospects.

Airyfairy12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122957367#Comment_122957367

We shouldnt be normalising or glamorising homelessness! Living in a van is not a suitable substitute for living in a house or apartment.

These Are Facts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122991314#Comment_122991314

Agree, however the topic is 'Escaping renting' and vanlife is one solution, considering there is no availability nor affordability for the conventional notion of living inside a house, in this great land of Ireland with its budget surplus and full employment.

The other solution is immigration.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122957256#Comment_122957256

Vat Is not the expense that many builder like to make it. No doubt building is expensive. However on a 400k house VAT is 47.5k. Let's assume that 125k of that is materials. Some materials are rated at 21% plumbing, electrical timber stone, cement etc. Blocks and concrete at 13.5%. Builders because they are vat rated can claim this back say 25k @13.5% and 100k @ 23% that a total of nearly 26.5k. Professional services are @21% while trades are at 13.5%. Assuming trades cost 90k and accountant, solicitor and engineer cost 10k that another 14.5k. All in all the vat reclaimed could be about 41k in total, the difference is about 6-7k. Even if it's a bit less in vat build costs the net vat is at the most 40% of total vat.

KaneToad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122923193#Comment_122923193

That train line reopening has been spoken about every year since it closed in the 1940's!

thereiver

Theres plenty of cheap houses in rural areas but most people don't want to travel more than an hour to work .69 k people are leaving Ireland every year to find a place that has cheaper rent or lower rates of tax