Why dont more people use mopeds/scooters?

Lofidelity

In European cities there are much more scooters than Irish cities. Here it seems 90% of them are for fast food deliveries only. So why dont Irish commuters buy scooters? It could be the key to freeing up the streets of Dublin and Galway in particular.

NIMAN

I'd guess some big factors are:

- additional cost if you already own a car

- weather

- worried about being in an accident

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058351530/why-dont-more-people-use-mopeds-scooters

Publish the moped scooter kill/injury rate in Europe?

Theft is a big barrier: from home or wrk or shopping: all you need is a white van

naughtysmurf

I had one back in the late 90’s early 00’s as we couldn’t afford two cars, it was a pain in the hole, whether rain was forecast or not wet gear would be on because as sure as night follows day I’d get p1ssed on, stuck it out for 18 months or so, the climate here is a big negative

billyhead

Irish people in general are a bunch of snowflakes when it comes to the weather.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058351530/why-dont-more-people-use-mopeds-scooters

I find the scooters and mopeds dangerous. Even worse, all those idiots having headphones on, while riding them. They are accidents waiting to happen.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122134188#Comment_122134188

Ah, it's not just a bit of rain.

In my opinion, living in Dublin, it was a combination of rain, dark mornings and evenings for 5 months of the year, poor visibility, and motorists who I felt were either trying to splash me, or knock me down.

The same thing you hear from anyone who travels on two wheels.

bk

I think they fall awkwardly between an ebike and a car in a manner that simply isn't worth it.

On the one hand you have to still get a driver license (theory test, driving test, instruction, etc) and still have to get insurance, road tax, etc.

So a lot of time and effort and when you are all set and done you are limited to just 45km/h and not much use outside a city.

ebikes on the other hand don't require any of that, just buy the bike and off you go and will buzz along at 25km/h which is sufficient for most trips in a city.

cnocbui

It rains, snows and sometimes there is ice on the road. Doing the weekly shop for 3 adults fills 80% of the boot of my hatchback. Took the recycling to the centre the other week, had to take the rear parcel shelf out so the large bag of general waste and the equal sized bag of recycling could fit standing up, blocking any rearward visibility out the rear window. On the back seat I put two cardboard boxes full of cans and glass.

I know in parts of Asia there are some who would fit more than that on a scooter, and their granny, but this isn't Asia.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135352#Comment_122135352

You know you can get your grocery's delivered by Tesco, Dunnes, etc.? I've been using such services for 20+ years (start with Quinnsworth!).

Also DCC have a service that will pick up bulky recycling.

Plenty of options these days for people who don't want, need or can drive.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136625#Comment_122136625

I know. Don't live near Dublin and such a service isn't available. The weekly shop takes Tesco, Lidl and Aldi to fulfill requirements.

Go back a few years and the same car was taking 2 kids to school, PS and then HS and then later I'd make several trips a year to Dublin carrying a full size PC, 3 monitors, bedding and all the rest of the stuff my son needed for college.

That went on for 4 years.

Then there was taking all the tools and food and bedding needed for stays at the holiday property I sold recently, not to mention the considerable amount of luggage for family skiing holidays which on top of all the clothing included 2 pairs of Ski boots

At least a couple times a year I'd have need to fold the rear seats flat to carry bulkier items.

I can't get my head around the simple restrictive existence that some can fulfill with a bicycle or scooter.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135352#Comment_122135352

that is a argument for car ownership, rather than an argument against moped ownership though?

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136968#Comment_122136968

That sounds like your living situation forces car dependence.

If you live in a town or city you do not need to drive to 3 shops, drive to school. Those once off cases like dropping bulky stuff to college for a child is real 1st world problems. Plenty of students get all that and more brought 4 hours away to uni via this invention called the bus?

Family skiing holidays - why not take an airport shuttle? Its probably cheaper than airport parking. Again 1st world problems

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058351530/why-dont-more-people-use-mopeds-scooters

Insurance and general lack of availability are the 2 big factors. Prohibitive cost of insurance in this country means there is no such thing as truly 'cheap' motoring, so that low end market segment that might use a moped is pretty much priced out entirely. So the starting rung is people who can afford a car

Buffman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058351530/why-dont-more-people-use-mopeds-scooters

I presume you mean 'normal' ICE powered mopeds/scooters? Why bother with all the hassle and cost of needing a driving licence, motor tax or motor insurance when you can just hop on an e-scooter/e-bike and not have to bother with any of that?

nigeldaniel

It's a good enough question to ask. I have a 300cc scooter myself and its dead handy with heaps of storage under the seat. Would not go out in bad weather, as, I live in the countryside.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136968#Comment_122136968

I have a massive shopping bill, my kids are in college, I frequently go on ski holidays and have my own ski boots, I also have a holiday property. I can't possibly have a bike or scooter, even though I can obviously afford many bikes and scooters.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137201#Comment_122137201

I live near Limerick, not Dublin, which answers all your why nots. I think it's around 74% of the population don't live in Dublin, which is something those who do, never seem to appreciate. I like where I live, it's nice and dark at night, so when comets or Aurora events happen, I get to enjoy them from my back yard and don't need to drive for over an hour to somewhere dark to get away from the light pollution. And by day, I get to enjoy nice views.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137328#Comment_122137328

Good for you.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137252#Comment_122137252

a friend of my wife has a scooter and said the main issue in winter is keeping warm, rather than the rain IIRC.

on a bicycle at least you're generating body heat.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137353#Comment_122137353

the OP was clearly about moped and scooter use in cities, so i suspect a response from someone who doesn't live in a city doesn't answer the question that was being asked.

Gary_dunne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136968#Comment_122136968

Maybe this thread isn't directed towards yourself then. Don't think we need to know all the reasons that you specifically can't have a moped to ferry an army load of stuff around.

I think the OP meant in large cities ie, Dublin compared to our European/Asian counterparts like Rome, Barcelona, Paris Bangkok etc. where moped/scooter usage is much higher as a % of road travel. As many have said the cost of owning one isn't too dissimilar to car ownership when you factor in insurance and tax. There's far more benefits to owning a car than a moped for not too much more money.

If it was made more affordable I think they would be used a lot more especially in 2 car families, most could easily swap one car for a scooter.

ozmo

Had a small bike myself for years - had to let it go due to

1. Insurance - crazy high insurance- stopped when my quote got more than a car.
2. Wet weather danger - Found cornering dangerous, Leaves on road especially after rain + wind..
3. Theft and vandalism if you leave it anywhere outside.
4. The weight of gear you have to carry- leathers, helmet, gloves, waterproofs, boots, 2 chain locks…
5. Cost of repairs as importing parts from especially uk is/was expensive.

The above list is not as much an issue in other countries, where you dont need as much gear and the costs are much less.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137353#Comment_122137353

Car dependency is not a thing in many cities and towns all over the country.

I would hazard a guess and say less than 74% population do not need to drive to the shop or the local school. It is not a Dublin city only thing

GBX

Fast food deliveries are done by a majority of electric scooters. Mopeds then your into licensing and Initial Basic Training (IBT), which is another cost. Then insurance. So the cost keeps rising. When people look at the overall outlay and include gear - helmet, jacket, gloves, boots etc. It soon ads up. Would be fairly off putting to somebody trying to keep budgets down.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137357#Comment_122137357

You're making stupid points regarding scooters. Nobody rides a scooter or cycles to a ski resort with their ski boots in the winter. Stop boasting, it's not becoming and you've nobody else to blame but yourself if you're that car dependent you can't go anywhere without using one.

irelandrover

I'm surprised that more households don't use mopeds to go from a two car household to a one car household. You still have the car when you need to transport bulkier items/ do the shopping/ drive sick children to the hospital.

Lots of people I know have two cars and one is only use for a short drive to work and home again.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137497#Comment_122137497

I know a good few that have swapped the second car for a cargo bike around my area. I think the cargo bike is the new moped.

bk

I was about to say, electric cargo bikes really seem to be taking off in my area of Dublin city. Lots of families seem to be giving up their second car for one. No need for insurance, etc. so much cheaper and while limited to just 25km/h, that is perfectly fine for getting around the local area, drops the kids to local school, local classes, stop at local shop, etc.

Of course I'm talking about urban areas here, cities, towns, etc. No one is suggesting it for deep in the countryside!

Juran

I think you now need a full drivers licenses or motorbike license to drive one. Up until a few years ago, you could ride a moped on a provisonal license. I used to see a good few around in the 80's and 90's. Tax and insurance used to be cheap as a friend of mine had one. Havent seen a moped in years. You see them all over UK and NI used by Food delivery guys.

Getting a license, plus mandatory lessons, insurance and cost of a moped is expensive. There is hardly no second market in ireland for mopeds so I,d say you have pay full whack for a new one if you want to buy one.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137792#Comment_122137792

but you can't see comets from those places, so your argument is nullified.

on the topic of e-cargo bikes:

https://irishcycle.com/2024/05/10/trial-of-on-street-cargo-bike-rental-to-start-in-dublin-city/

blanch152

Drove a moped on a commute for over ten years.

Weather was manageable, however, had to incorporate a school run, which ended that arrangement.

Lofidelity

So the costs add up and its not really cheap transport after all, unlike Spain or Italy. Some mornings when im on the pedal bike passing the traffic jams and i think those people would be in work in half the time if they had a scooter. I dont find that Dublin weather is as bad as people say, i wouldnt use the rain gear ten times a year.

After a hard day at work its not always easy facing a work out on the bike. An ebike would probably suit me but theres no storage which is handy on a scooter. Plus they cost €2-3 grand.

heretothere

Where I live now it would be impractical. When I lived in Dublin I used the bus, a scooter would have meant lugging a helmet around for the day. Also probably getting drenched going to work or needed to then store overalls at work. Bus and brolly suited me

Lofidelity

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137831#Comment_122137831

I have my driving a long time so i have an AM licence automatically so i can ride a 50cc without lessons. A used 50cc will likely be driven at max rev all the time so theyre not gonna last. All noise and no power too. Then most of the 125's have seen delivery duty so wear and tear will be high.

Some quick research and im estimating €400 for insurance, and another €400 for lessons. A new pcx 125 is €4.5k.

John_Rambo

They were really popular in the 90's amongst young Dublin lads. They'd often be seen in groups with the helmets sitting on top of their heads, not covering their faces. From what I can gather the messing, crashes (into each other mostly), theft and general acting the maggot torpedoed the insurance prices out of range.

Luckycharm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137984#Comment_122137984

Agree I had a moped for 10 years, 50cc wasn't really quick enough to keep up with Traffic. I got a brand new 125cc scooter but had so much trouble with it always breaking. Never trusted myself with a bigger bike as have a heavy wrist. Thankfully my commute changed so could get a cheap car.

As others said it started to get expensive to insure the Moped, no fun in bad weather especially wind with rain as had to open Visor to see and getting smashed by the Rain. I even took it in the snow, if I had the same terrible commute now could take 50mins-2 hours in car depending on traffics/crashes etc might consider it again. Would take me 30 mins on Bike.

Actually what I found the most dangerous when I was on the road was not cars. I could kind of predict what a car was doing as I drove myself, worst was pedestrians and cyclists who step out in front of you without looking or come from nowhere in the traffic. Obviously the other main difference is if you had a crash much safer in a car.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137920#Comment_122137920

FYI, you can ebikes for €1000 or less. Sure some fancy ones are 2 to 3k, but loads of more standard ones for a lot less. Checkout Decathlon for examples.

Also worth checking if your employer supports the cycle to work scheme, can be up to almost 50% off a €1500 ebike or €3000 cargo bike and it spreads the payment over 4 years, making them extremely affordable.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058351530/why-dont-more-people-use-mopeds-scooters

In most of Europe you could ride a moped at 14 with no need for a licence, now you can still ride them but need a licence. In Ireland you have to wait till you are 16 to get a moped licence or 17 for a car licence so everyone goes for the car at 17. Your own wheels at 14 means that more people on the continent are using bikes way before they can drive and both sexes use them, in the UK and Ireland most bike riders are male and old .

Lofidelity

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122138538#Comment_122138538

Yeah its a different culture in the southern European countries. When im on holiday i often think how handy it must be. If you have that freedom as a teenager you will probably stay on two wheels as an adult.

I can never understand how people are content crawling through traffic every day. I would try to find another way, walk, bus, bike, scooter or whatever.

Emblematic

E-bikes and e-scooters are probably the way to go rather than mopeds and petrol scooters but the current designs fall short of what is required.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122138906#Comment_122138906

Do you mean in terms of speed/power/throttle? That is based on EU legislation that puts limits on ebikes.

In other countries you can often get ebikes with much higher speeds, throttle, etc. I think you can do that in some EU countries to, but then they aren't defined as regular ebikes, but as a sort of moped instead and thus require driving license, insurance, etc.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139422#Comment_122139422

Yes, some of it is legislation that needs to change. When I see a standup e-scooter with tiny wheels with a pole attached and a saddle on it, I think the person riding it really wants an e-bike but is put off by the lack of throttle and the requirement to pedal.

gossamerfabric

45kmph 50cc moped insurance costs 30 to 40 euro in Germany. Mopeds can be purchased in the larger chain stores for about 1000 quid. No motortax to worry about. No roadworthiness test. Acquisition is much easier in Germany and it will probably be where you left it when you return to where you parked it.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122138906#Comment_122138906

Moped is the licence type in Ireland and the EU. Scooter is a style of motorcycle, you can get mopeds in all motorcycle styles.

With the new legislation Escooters and ebikes are restricted to 25km/h and the bikes need to pedal assisted. If bikes can move on their own they are emopeds regardless of the top speed, they have changed the moped classification to be less than 4kW.

We will never legally have the high powered ebikes or Escooters like the USA. The question is will the Gardai enforce the law when the new legislation is enacted as a lot of the Escooters and ebikes currently in use will still be illegal.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139686#Comment_122139686

True but legislation can change if it is not fit for purpose.

Power is only one aspect. I think the pedal-assisted aspect of the e-bike needs to change if we want to encourage their use.

People are already getting around this by instead purchasing e-scooters with attached saddles to have a seated vehicle that is electrically powered, but this also has its issues. Ultimately they are a bad design for the functionality they provide.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137935#Comment_122137935

Exactly.

Bus and brolly means I don't run the risk of injury, don't have to worry about where to feed or park the pony safely, and can work while I'm travelling. And tax-saver makes it cheap.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139686#Comment_122139686

With the new legislation Escooters and ebikes are restricted to 25km/h and the bikes need to pedal assisted. If bikes can move on their own they are emopeds regardless of the top speed, they have changed the moped classification to be less than 4kW.

one thing i am curious about - if i get a bike which can move under its own power, but is limited to 25km/h - does this classify as an e-scooter or not? under the old legislation, it was considered a moped, but can i claim under the new legislation, it's an e-scooter instead, and thus is 'legal'?

artanevilla

You can't use them on a motorway, limited luggage space, weather, safety, limited scope for passengers, not viable for long journeys, prospect of theft. These are my reasons why I don't use one anyway.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140014#Comment_122140014

No, it would be still classed as an emoped (perhaps not the right word, I need to look it up).

BTW escooters with a seat are illegal under the new legislation that seemingly comes into power from next Monday.

Of course all escooters were already illegal and yet people were using them, so I'm not sure if the new legislation is actually going to stop anyone using it.

BTW The new legislation caps the speed of escooters at 20km/h, no seats and you most be over 16.

BBTW I do agree that 20km/h for escooters and 25km/h for ebikes and no throttle is too restrictive. I'd rather see 25km/h for escooters and 30km/h for eikes and a throttle.

Ezeoul

I started driving on a moped and then a motorbike for a couple of years before buying my first car after I had my daughter. For a year or two after that, I kept both, using the motorbike for commuting until I had an accident that destroyed my confidence for two wheels (and messed up my knee and shoulder for a long time). I still think a motorbike was my favourite commuting method.

Anyway, I came on to post this, which I read this morning, though I expect it will be pretty much ignored.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0515/1449245-escooter-regulations/

loyatemu

how can they ban them for U16s when they haven't even finished bringing in the legislation making them legal in the first place?