Now it's official: "Ireland needs a new right wing party".

dublincc2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121998505#Comment_121998505

I don’t support any of the above, they are all either too extreme or have an incredibly poor image to the general public.

pjohnson

Theres too many right wing parties squabbling amongst themselves for the tiny pool of voters they have.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121998516#Comment_121998516

There's a blatant contridiction and you know it. You said "needs to get away from" and then attacked the left. You made your observation about a left v right devide and then contributed to the left v right divide. Twice - once in the same post. Going off on tangents is normal,yes - but you contributed to that. Not debating that any further, it's pretty undeniable.

Doesn't matter what I did, I never commented on left v right.

Moving on: we have right wing parties. Now, they might be too far right or too centrist right for your personal viewpoint, which is fair enough; but if anything is needed from Courtney's point of view it's left wing voters - because without them, it doesn't matter how many right wing parties there are. Same for the left: if there are voters, there will be parties; if there aren't…

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121998560#Comment_121998560

None whatsoever. Ok.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121998373#Comment_121998373

If you consider the above to be 'far right', do you realise where that puts you!!!!!!!

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121998770#Comment_121998770

All I said was that the ills of the left were being ignored while the anti right wing rhetoric was being laid on with a trowel.

How that equates to attacking the left is beyond me.

We've been down this type of path before you and I; I say something, you say I said something else then try to stop me from correcting your mistake with statements like "moving on..." as if you get you misrepresent people and dictate how much they should be able to correct it.

On your final point, the idea that there are parties within the Oireachtas that can be scrutinised and described as right wing is frankly mind boggling.

The likes of FFG are supposedly centre right but have drifted so far left they no longer represent anything resembling right wing. The rest of the parties in opposition all fall on the left of centre at the very least and in some cases stark raving socialist.

The idea that Ireland is awash with right wing parties has no basis in reality, like so many other things, it's just another left wing fever dream.

Everlong1

I think we're disappearing down a rabbit hole of squabbling over what exactly is a right wing party and what's a "far right" party. I think most people understand what a far right party is - a totally anti-immigration, borderline or outright racist party which espouses the racial purity of the indigenous population etc.

Nobody except a tiny minority of racist / anti - choice loons in Ireland supports those kind of parties. As repeatedly stated, the multitude of fringe right wing anti - immigration parties - National Party and their ilk - can probably be classed as far right. One of the points of the Indo article, however, is that if mainstream parties don't start addressing voter's genuine concerns about immigration, crime etc., people may well turn to those parties out of frustration. Anyone who thinks that's impossible only has to look to the UK, France, Germany and every other country where the mainstream parties ignored public discontent about immigration or dismissed those complaining as ignorant racists. And don't think that just because Ireland didn't colonise half the planet that we're somehow immune from making the same mistakes as our European colleagues who ignored the rise of the right.

If a moderate centre right party emerged which produced sensible policies on crime, immigration and welfare - a party with a professional attitude that didn't cloak itself in the Tricolour in an attempt to appeal to the minority of racist knuckledraggers - it might well attract significant votes away from the mainstream parties. This is the kind of party that the Indo columnist is talking about.

Musicrules

Are there a growing number of Irish people more comfortable in revealing their racist side? Maybe it was always there but they've seen an opportunity recently to openly state their dislike of some foreigners and they've jumped on that opportunity.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999214#Comment_121999214

People have been voicing their concerns about the way International Protection Applicants have been brought into the country, is a mostly justifiable manner.

To a certain cadre of people this is the same as being overtly racist, which is pure waffle.

I work with some very capable people who have come into this country with qualifications that make them an asset to the economy and country as a whole.

Freeloaders chancing their arm coming to Ireland because they hear it's a soft touch aren't in the same category. Ethnicity isn't the issue, it's the intent of the people and the fact that they offer nothing to society while proposing we bank role their existence that angers people, particularly in the height of a housing crisis that effects not just Irish people but genuine immigrants who actually offer something to this country.

All the political parties are currently aligned on continuing this status quo, that's where the chasm is in the Irish political landscape.

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121998405#Comment_121998405

Where's your proof that any of those independent electoral entities are on the same level as members of the mid 20th Century Schutzstaffel?

Because that's what you are trying to imply, isn't it? So go on, you give us some proof of this ultimate supremacist evil coming from Mattie McGrath and Danny Healy Rae.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999136#Comment_121999136

You did NOT say "the ills of the left" you said "the insanity of the left". Post 181. THAT'S an attack.

FF and FG are center right parties. You disagreeing with them or their policies does not make them left.

I never said awash with. I said they existed. The might be ****, unpopular, amazing, too religious and/or fascists, but they exist. None of those things means they aren't right-wing. What you want (I think) is a right wing party somewhere between alt-right and FFG (regardless of where you put them on the spectrum) but one way or the other, they won't exist without voters.

Beyond that, you'd have to answer the central question: WHY isn't there one? I think the problem is that people expect one to just pop up out of nowhere - but what is stopping anyone from starting one?

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999239#Comment_121999239

Everyone is in favour of stopping criminals and nerdowells from coming in. That's not what some have been stating though. They are worried about people in our towns looking different. Of trying to stop anybody coming into Ireland, especially if they are a certain colour. That's what I mean about people revealing their racist side. I think it has always been there but for whatever reason, some seem to be more comfortable in showing it now.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121998263#Comment_121998263

Have you met the Tories?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999214#Comment_121999214

Being concerned about immigration doesn't make you racist - xenophobic, perhaps, but even then it's more a case of not having the facilities and wanting to see Irish people prioritised.

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999425#Comment_121999425

"Everyone is in favour of stopping criminals and nerdowells from coming in"? The government and the vast majority of the opposition aren't. They have openly stated time and time again, they have to accommodate everyone who comes in here seeking what they can get, this includes people who on point of arrival in this country, destroy their international travel documentation, which is an illegal act. So, straight from the get go you have criminal fraud perpetrated, and tolerated by the regime who is supposed to be in custody of the state for the sovereign people. That includes the 100's of thousands of LEGITIMATE foreign migrants who came into this island LEGALLY, people who had to prove they were here to join in, people who actually contribute and who also do not like what is going on with these scammers. But I suppose they are all fah riot racist oven feeding demons too, right?

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999463#Comment_121999463

Link to show anyone is in favour of criminals and nerdowells coming in?

Do you share some people's concerns about the people in our towns looking different?

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999414#Comment_121999414

Do you think the left will recover from my attack? The left in Ireland are insane, every bit as insane as the National Party. Why do you feel aggrieved at my pointing out how insane they are?

FFG have slid to the left, that's not my opinion or interpretation of their policies it is an observation of fact.

A large right wing party with a huge groundswell of support isn't going to materialise any time soon in Ireland. People aren't interested in that as a concept.

What we do need is a move towards the implementation of existing laws. A crackdown on the flagrant criminality we've seen develop here in recent years. You don't need to be right wing to want to make basic changes like that.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999450#Comment_121999450

Extremism isn't the same as being a w@nker.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999425#Comment_121999425

I haven't noticed any of that type of sentiment tbh.

The problem with statements like yours is that there's a burden of proof attached, and it's difficult to provide it.

So we just have to take your word for it that the Irish are racist even though most of us aren't seeing it ourselves.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999562#Comment_121999562

I dont fell aggrieved - youre making **** up again - i was just pointing out your contradiction. Again. Still, at least you now admit it was an attack on the left.

Then you compare "the left" to a Fascist party.

Your entire stance is just an entire attack on "the left".You've made no comments on the issue of voters or popularity for a right wing party. Or answered my question about why it diesnt exist.

You've lost complete sight of the issue: a right wing party in Ireland because you just wanted to rant about "the left".

You're obsessed with attacking "the left" and then asking stupid irrelevant questions about recoveries.

Threads not even ABOUT "the left".

Tony EH

It never ceases to be a source of amusement when those that are further to the right of FF or FG claim that those particular parties are "left wing". 🤣

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121997963#Comment_121997963

I would not call them extreme-right, or comparable to the actual extreme-left TDs there are in the Dail.

To me, extreme-right would be libertarians, wanting to substantially scale back the welfare state, and cut taxes.

I don't think these four TDs want to do that?

I don't think these four TDs are as right-wing, as PBP are left-wing?

Tony EH

Threads not even ABOUT "the left".

For some people everything is about tHe LeFt.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999564#Comment_121999564

If you don't see the Tories as extremists, you might want to stop for a minute and reassess your life.

Brexit, legal bans on legitimate protest, tax reductions for their affluent buddies, setting up the NHS to be sold off, filling their rivers and coastal waters with sh1t to support their privatised water buddies.

They make extremists look like moderates.

https://twitter.com/bydonkeys/status/1773680611971985905?s=46&t=3l1OhjvjsuAh4w9RMjlH8g

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999578#Comment_121999578

You may have not detected the sarcasm when I used the word attack.

The whole thread has been about attacking the right. I said the left is insane. On balance the left has hardly had a glove laid on the. Boo hoo.

I have no inclination towards the far left or the far right. I have a go at the left here because no one else does, because the left has countless cheerleaders who have their heads in the sand about the realities of wing nuts like Paul Murphy and Gino Kenny and their insane rhetoric.

You and your pals made this thread about "I know someone is right wing when, ha ha ha" type nonsense pages ago and then you have a go at me for offering a tiny measure of balance.

You want everything your own way and throw your toys out of the pram when someone says one thing about your precious left wing loonies.

For clarification once again, I detest the far left and the far right, I despair at anyone supporting either of them.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999591#Comment_121999591

Are you suggesting that I'm far right Tony? Where's your evidence of this. And no, your opinion won't suffice.

Further to this, there's a thread in feedback about what's wrong with this site currently. This is a prime example of it, a thread descends into an echo chamber of ridiculing something, whoever turns up with a differing opinion has to deal with being quoted by multiple posters at a time being accused of being an extremist and it's all OK because the incumbent lefties are the ones doing it.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121998883#Comment_121998883

Not insane, that's where.

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999592#Comment_121999592

Libertarians aren't extreme right, they are classic liberals but don't worry, we haven't a single libertarian in the Dail

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999806#Comment_121999806

Libertarians think they're classical liberals. But other people, who also think they're classical liberals, think that libertarians aren't. It's a contested space.

Regardless, libertarians tend to be very right-wing on economic matters. Though they have a generally restrictive view of the role of the state, they tend to make an exception when it comes to property rights; in their view it absolutely is the role of the state to defend and vindicate, up to and including by force, the rights of private property. And they tend to take a very expansive view of what the rights of private property are.

This means, in effect, that the primary role of the state is to serve the interests of the wealthy. And, broadly speaking, that's a pretty right-wing position, and it tends to align well with right-wing positions held by people who aren't libertarians. So liberterians can meaningfully be classified as pretty far to the right on the usual left-right political spectrum.

On social matters, they may take quite left-wing or progressive stances, but qualified by their libertarianism. Thus they'll affirm your right to get an abortion — provided you can pay for it. Indeed, they'll affirm your right to get any healthcare you can afford. They're quite relaxed about you burning the flag, provided it's your flag you burn. You've bought and paid for it? Burn away, so.

But there are other socially progressive positions that they reject. Libertarians are generally uncomfortable about equal treatment legislation, for example. If the owner of a coffee shop wants to refuse service to black people, or to serve them only if they sit in a designated area, in the libertarian view he should be free to do so; it is an infringement on his rights as a business owner to dictate that he cannot discriminate on the grounds of race, gender, etc.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999701#Comment_121999701

More incoherent ranting on the left and absolutely no comment on Ireland needing a right wing party, so I guess we're done here.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999806#Comment_121999806

Libertarians might be liberal socially, but be they certainly would not be liberal economically speaking.

Same problem though: if there isn't the appetite for such a party, then there isn't a party; and if there is the appetite then what's stopping someone from starting up such a party?