Badly need a new Political Party

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121927524#Comment_121927524

90k actually 😂

But back to the original question, someone on 200k how much tax should they pay?

A person on 45k will pay 23% tax and have tax of 10k. So not paying the same tax as claimed.

https://ie.talent.com/tax-calculator?salary=200000&from=year&region=Ireland

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058342951/badly-need-a-new-political-party

If it's the same platform that will be inhabited by the same voters and the same political ranks then it's just the same party, rebranded, by “[dipping] it in chocolate and say[ing] it has no calories,” to borrow a phrase from a pre-infamous Kellyanne Conway: https://www.cc.com/video/7vl0ef/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-reagraham-lincool

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121927551#Comment_121927551

Who are talent.com?

Use the pwc tax calculator, it's €88,403 in tax.

Less if the person maxes their pension contributions, and if they're on 200k they definitely should be doing so.

So now it's €79,203.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121927583#Comment_121927583

On that salary, its mad to think you work all week and its only by mid-wednesday that you start to keep your money.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121927613#Comment_121927613

and then you have people complaining online about you not paying enough tax

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121927661#Comment_121927661

I'm not saying it isn't enough. With maxed pension contributions it's 39.5% tax, so you actually get to keep your income before clocking off time on Tuesday at that rate. But it isn't 50% as you tried to suggest.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121927661#Comment_121927661

I think some would complain if you were paying 199k tax.

Totally oblivious that you could just move to another country and take your tax take with you...

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121927758#Comment_121927758

Well take a case of one of the Sinn Fein hero's, Paddy Cosgrove

A guy who hides his money outside of Ireland to now pay tax, SF supporters telling him he great for not paying tax, then a few mins later complaining that people earning over 100k should be paying more tax.

Also the one tax he has to pay, LPT, Sinn Fein want to get rid of it.

Ridiculous stuff to be honest, absolutely ridiculous

Northernlily

Need a new centrist party that will provide value for our taxes by actually delivering basic services as required. It would also be ideal to have people that actually know what they are doing and are not fearful to strong arm and get rid of senior civil servants not doing their jobs.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121928003#Comment_121928003

So you want them to have 'people who know what they are doing' to get rid of the people who actually know what they're doing - the senior civil servants. Who are the people who know what they're doing when you exclude those who are actually doing the job today?

nachouser

I would imagine a Finn Sein party with similar policies but without the baggage would also require a magic money tree.

If you want to get into the weeds, their stuff is here;

https://www.sinnfein.ie/policy-document-archive/1

I'd also argue that any policy doc that uses "focussing" is probably not getting off to a great start.

Redliketoast

Ok so im getting the impression here that most people would vote for fg again in the morning? Surely thats not true?

Northernlily

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121928078#Comment_121928078

There is absolutely a clear out needed in the Civil Service. The culture is toxic to the core ans senior levels and that trickles down. People getting cushy and hindering progress or not bothering manage spending. I'm not saying get rid - I'm saying make sure they perform and are held to account through proper governance channels.

Children's hospital, badly scoped and 5 times over budget. One of many many examples. Ministers and board members should absolutely be out on there ear over this fiasco.

Just ridiculous.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121928146#Comment_121928146

So we should get in people with considerable private sector experience, maybe people who have run major businesses, such as the Managing Director for the UK and Ireland of international consultancy Jacobs Engineering? Why did no one think of this great idea before?

https://projectmanagement.ie/blog/fred-barry-appointed-as-chairman-of-new-national-childrens-hospital/

Who's going to replace the people that you clear out?

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121928136#Comment_121928136

I thought you wanted a new party? now talking about voting for FG?

Who has mentioned FG on the thread?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121928146#Comment_121928146

Do you work in the Civil Service to know this and "culture is toxic to the core"?

The childrens hospital is mentioned every time, what about all the government project on budget and delivered? should we ignore them because of one project?

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121927740#Comment_121927740

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121927583#Comment_121927583

I already corrected the 100k to 90k and provided the link

It's an imaginary person and my imaginary person is not making pension contributions 🤣 satisfied?

In terms of the original point made by the person that they are paying the same tax as someone on 200k, that is incorrect.

Milominderbender

"Imagine a party with the exact policies of Sinn Fein but without the baggage of Sinn Fein!!"

No need to imagine they're called the social democrats.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121928136#Comment_121928136

You may be surprised to realise that plenty of non-FG voters don't agree with SFs populist nonsense; or think that removing their hideous history suddenly makes their shallow unrealistic policies acceptable

MIKEKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058342951/badly-need-a-new-political-party

Pearce Doherty has gone down in my estimation in the last while.In the Dail, he is costantly shouting with giving any solutions

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121929289#Comment_121929289

Its called "doing a Shinner."

csirl

One of the problems with Irish politics is that both FG and FF have shifted to the left and now occupy a centre-left to mid-)eft positiion in the spectrum. This is driven by a fear of SF - they are all trying to compete with SF and other centre left/mid left parties (SocDems, Greens, Labour).

Ireland is traditiiomally centrist in political outlook. But both the centre or centre right positions in the spectrum have been vacated by all parties leaving a massive dusconnect between the current political choices and the natural position of the population.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121929406#Comment_121929406

We may see FG move back to the centre right, under the change of leadership.

Peter Flynt

As soon as I saw "IRA" in the opening post I didn't read the rest of it because it was very easy to come to the conclusion that this thread was setup by a FF/FGer. . . . Probably a FGer given what's goin on in FG at the moment.

The reality for FF/FG is this - No one under 50 GIVES A **** about the 1980s/90s. There literally is NO baggage for SF when the present FF/FG government have half a million adults living with their parents.

Do these people posting of "IRA baggage" think people are thinking of what went on 30 years ago? That's delusional.

SF are the main opposition party. They're the man opposition party for a reason. . . and that's because more people voted for them in the last general election than any other party in the state.

SF are going to be in government at some point in the future. Get over it FF/FGers.

The real issue is: Are SF that much different to FF/FG?

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121929212#Comment_121929212

The SD?

That's "Imagine a party with the exact policies of SF but without the votes"

lumphammer2

When one mentions Sinn Fein ... the next logical response for many is IRA !! ... traditionally SF have been the party of the rebel .... of the subversive ... of the IRA ... but in recent time SF has broadened its appeal and has gone mainstream ....

This mainstreaming has pleased and has outraged some too ... just before Covid a guy down the pub said SF are now too mainstream and lamented the lack of an RSF ... CIRA political swing ... candidate .... others from the opposite end do not trust SF's mainstreaming and always remind us they will not vote for a party linked to the gun ... but Fianna Fail, Fine Gael and all the rest originated that way too ... and Labour has members in it at present who were in the Official IRA as did a party now in Labour put once a breakaway from the OIRA called Democratic Left ...

Personally I will consider any candidate from any party bar the far right ... I do not want to see the rise of this vermin here and anyone who is sucked in by them need to remind themselves that Sean Uisci and Gemmaroid head them here in Ireland ... 2 lunatics ...

Does Ireland need a new party ?? ... in theory yes ... a new centrist moderate type party with fresh ideas ... but in reality any new party will end up a version of a FF, FG, SF, or Labour ... as the PDs, Renua, Aontu, SDs or PBP all have shown ... some could say we have already have too many parties as it is ....

I suppose we could have a party of candidates in an Irish monster raving loony party dressed up as bears and going around saying 'I the bear, me a bear' .... and I have just the man for the job !! ... here he is in costume ...

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121929436#Comment_121929436

Well if those half a million adults, living with their parents, actually talk to them, they might not be huge sinn feinn fans.

I'm 37 I care about the 80s and 90s. The fact that they supported and continue to support the memory of a terrorist organisation that murdered innocent Irish people in the Republic of Ireland and operated against the wishes of the vst majority of the population here, still matters. I suppose if Mary Lou comes out and says all the garda murderers and the local bankers and the random civilians the IRA, who pets be honest, were not soldiers but more a criminal gang, that they were terrorists and criminals and did not represent irish identity. Then maybe I could start to give a sh*t about the populist hurlers on the ditch.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121925902#Comment_121925902

Yes. That's how I see it too. SF as nationalists are focused on the idea of the nation and borders and flags and they prioritise all of those above people.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121926308#Comment_121926308

Here's the thing

The thread is supposedly about a new party but all it is about complimenting SF and saying how great they are.

Not once have you actually discussed why a new party is needed. All discussion has been about how great SF supposedly are.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121929177#Comment_121929177

You're imaginary friend needs a good financial advisor 😀

All in jest mate, I hate the "tax the rich" comments when the "rich" are people earning 80k+ in some people's eyes.

Our entry point to 40% tax is disgracefully low at €42k. Unbelievable to think it was €35,300 only a few years ago. Leo had plenty of things to say about raising that to 50k, and introducing a 3rd tax rate, who know what Simon will do.

All we know is that SF will attempt to crush "the rich" with more tax to distribute more to those who already contribute nothing. The Robin Hood party.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121926171#Comment_121926171

This.. Especially the first 3 lines!

SF (or anything like them) would be a disaster for this country, particularly the "squeezed middle" who are already paying for far more than they get from this State under FFG.

SF's primary goal is a united Ireland and they think that voters here consider it a key if not top 3 issue. They don't! People here are more concerned about housing, the impact of the disastrous immigration policy on their communities, health care, the costs of living and increasingly the general level of waste, corruption and incompetence in not just the political arena but anything even connected to the State (RTE, HSE etc).

Ask 100 people on the street if they'd support a united Ireland and the majority will answer "of course!" But then ask them would they be prepared to pay higher taxes as a result of needing to support and integrate those counties , deal with the inevitable security issues that would arise (the hardliners are unlikely to just shrug, say "oh well!" and disappear), and pay for more TDs and the further dilution of their voice in the Dail as a result? I think the answers will change a fair bit!

The problem with the current arrangement is that the political establishment serves itself, the hangers-on (friends, family, the connected, NGOs and lobbyists) and outside interests (the EU and apparently anyone with a sad story) over and above the interests and needs of our country and its people.

The current Government is obsessed with social media crusading (the constant screeching about the "far-right" in a country that still has one of the most passive and lazy electorates in Europe, not to mention one that has seen massive socially liberal policy changes in the last 20 years), being the "best boys and girls in the class" for our European "friends", and letting a small group of ideologues that only 7% of those who bothered to turn out last time (the Greens) poison any other support that may have remained through their complete disconnect from reality.

We live in a society now where personalities and individuals are more important than their message or competence. People like Leo Varadkar, Helen McEntee, Roderic O'Gorman, Eamon Ryan, Catherine Martin, Micheal Martin, Darragh O'Brien and Simon Harris. All individuals who have failed in their respective briefs, who have alienated the public, and yet who are still in the job and rewarded for it - we're about to have a man who has never had a proper job in his life and failed in the political ones he has be elevated to Taoiseach!! If that alone doesn't show how badly broken the system is then nothing will.

But the alternatives are actually worse. SF for the reasons above (and that they would destroy FDI and investment), various degrees of left, or one-issue Independents more suited to county councils than national parliament in the majority of cases.

What we need is the "None of the Above" party :

- Economically sensible, rewarding and supporting those who contribute (as opposed to bleeding them dry) with economic consequences for those who refuse to do so

- Investing in infrastructure and services rather than stripping and selling them off, but demanding efficiencies and accountability in State bodies and organisations.

- Socially liberal and tolerant but not afraid to call out the more extreme nonsense that is increasingly being pandered to in this country over the last few years.

- Open to immigration of those who want come legally and have needed skills to offer but hard on chancers or liars and ending the endless appeal system currently in place, but all only in sustainable numbers and where the benefits must be for the hosts (us) as well as the new arrivals.

- Hard on serious crime and supportive of Gardai who are trying to better things but intolerant of lazy or corrupt elements therein too.

- Works with the EU, the UK and others in support of common goals, but always with Ireland's interests first. Compromise and negotiation, not capitulation and subservience. Less concerned about needing validation or approval than doing what's right for our country and it's people.

... And so on. I think you get the general idea.

Unfortunately such a party doesn't seem to exist. The Farmers Alliance is probably currently the closest but I think the name will put off many potential voters.

In my view though it's absolutely what this country is crying out for.