Badly need a new Political Party

Redliketoast

Ok so hear me out

Imagine a party with the exact policies of Sinn Fein but without the baggage of Sinn Fein!!

Sinn Fein I do really think they are trying to get as far from the IRA rubbish as they can. But they will always be held back by it. Look at their candidates. At the top they are quiet strong

Mary Lou, Louise, Eoin, Pearse - just for example. They are all decent candidates who are good talkers. Good at articulating an argument.

But when you start going down the pecking order you end up with people like Maurice Quinlivan and David Cullinane. Its like they are trying to get as many people in as possible and then end up with old mentality people who love the "up the Ra" songs. I feel like this will continue to hold them back. They need to start having some sort of behavior contracts or something to ensure everyone gets in line. I know that obviously opposition will always make reference to the security council, but I think this is an exaggeration tbf. Every party has their own party assembly who makes decisions on the party. But because of SF's past, it will always be held against them.

But if you look at things they say, its all pretty good. Their ideas have substance. Opposition will claim they are lying but at the end of the day, the opposition have lied to us. SF havent had a chance to yet. Will Sinn Fein screw us over? Maybe. But they havent had the chance yet. Fine Gael, Fianna Fail, Greens, Labour have all screwed us over on a number of occasions.

If Sinn Fein where called ANYTHING ELSE and didnt have a historic connection to the IRA, they would easily be the most popular party (I know that currently SF are the most pop).

What do ye think?

Does Sinn Feins legacy actually hold them back?

DO they need to be more choosy with their selections?

Would another a duplicate party without their baggage be more popular or is their baggage something that attracts people?

Allinall

I don't want a party who I think will screw us over given the chance to do just that.

Stewball

A party with a bit of common sense is what we need.

Is that too much to ask for?

Redliketoast

But hasnt FFG done that over and over? I dont think I need to list things Fine Gael, Greens, Labour and Fianna Fail have done over the last 40 years. I mean at least the PD's are gone.

Thats what I mean about a new party who are not SF though. Would you vote for them if they weren't SF?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058342951/badly-need-a-new-political-party

Sinn Féin policy is principally about their raison d'etre - a United Ireland and a border poll etc etc

So they'll adopt pretty much any policy that gives them more votes that will facilitate above.

Other considerations like our own welfare, housing, taxation, health etc etc come below that.

It's a fair & reasonable strategy on their part but it should be seen for what it is.

As to their leaders, murky area to dredge in - if you haven't read it already I'd recommend Shane Ross's book on Mary Lou McD. You might assume he'd be hostile but he's actually quite sympathetic in some ways but baffled too by the opaqueness of the party and her life.

As to a new party - yes possibly but you'll always the others stealing their clothes. There's not much between all the ones that might actually aspire to power.

Redliketoast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121925902#Comment_121925902

To be honest Shane Ross's book is tripe mate. He just took a swipe as a parting gift to FG. Just look at Michael Lowry for example. You could write 10 books about his exploits but Shane took aim for a reason. Im not defending Mary Lou in any way but I am just saying that it was very transparent.

I would 100% agree on SF almost cherry picking policies. But as I mentioned, they havent screwed us over (yet) as they havent been in charge. What we do know is, everything FG and FF have been in charge, they have screwed us over.

Personally I vote independent but I always look at what party the person came from. I would love to vote for SF but I cant. I def cant vote for FFG the greens and Labour. They have been dishonest so much that this country is like a beaten wife. Just constantly saying "but theyll change".

Thats why I think a new party free from the rubbish could work. When news broke that Peadar Tóibín was starting a new party, part of me was hoping his crazy ideas stemmed form SF. But then it turned out he was even worse.

There is a huge disillusionment in Irish politics

Ten of Swords

Does the new Farmers Alliance Party appeal to you op? Founded in 2023

Heh - FAP 🤣

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121925970#Comment_121925970

Well I enjoyed Ross's book, whilst never really liking the chap. But he is a good journalist and had as good an inside track as anyone to peer into MaryLou's past and how SF operate. It may be a bit of a swipe but that's as much since he's swinging of necessity in the dark a bit. Little co-operation etc

As to other matters, yes Independents seem to be best choice for many of us as things stand.

Oscar_Madison

So is this a thread about needing a new party or just a SF promotional thread trying to convince idiots that SF has moved away from everything it previously stood for?

It’s ironic that the opening post is just all about promoting SF when you’re asking for a new party😀

creeper1

So much hope clicking on this thread.

"A new political party" sounds exciting!

The OP then proceeds to eulogize SF!

And what are you talking about SF is the most popular party.

You haven't been keeping up!

Support for them has dropped like a stone recently.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058342951/badly-need-a-new-political-party

What policies do you think they have that are costed or practical to implement?

One eyed Jack

Ok so hear me out

Imagine a party with the exact policies of Sinn Fein but without the baggage of Sinn Fein!!

Peaked too soon OP, peaked too soon…

ELM327

Right wing financially and left wing socially. We need such a party as none exist in ireland.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058342951/badly-need-a-new-political-party

Sinn Fein biggest issue is their policies.

Also they seem to be incompetent from top to bottom. Trying to say people are moving away from them because of their baggage is wrong.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121926171#Comment_121926171

It's the latest in a long line of posts which don't want to discuss the issues with Sinn Fein policies but talk about fear etc as if that is the issues Sinn Fein have.

Cluedo Monopoly

We do need new parties. Parties that have no baggage with civil war politics or the Troubles. Honest men and women.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121925970#Comment_121925970

Who the fcuk is going to buy a book about Michael Lowry ffs?

As opposed to one about a probable near-future Taoiseach, from a party with more than a whiff of cordite off it still.

Like 'em or loath 'em we know how FF, FG, Labour, SD etc are run. How candidates get selected, how leaders are chosen. SF is like the Soviet Politburo only more secretive and opaque. That should be a concern for every voter given how likely they are to be in government within 5-10 years, if not the next time.

Redliketoast

Def peaked way too soon 😂

I am in no way trying to promote SF. If I was I would be trying to push positives, not call out the "up the ra" rubbish.

Im not going to debate their popularity because some will say they are, others will say they arent. Im basing what I am saying on even recent polls showing them on top.

Let me be clear. I WILL NOT BE VOTING FOR THEM. I vote Independent and have done in for the last 20 years. Previous to that I used to canvas for Labour but jumped that ship as soon as I thought they stopped caring about their electorate.

But please for the love of all that is good, do not take this thread a push for SF!!!!

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121926054#Comment_121926054

FAP - bunch of w....

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058342951/badly-need-a-new-political-party

maybe get rid of a few parties instead

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121926228#Comment_121926228

They got the bump from a revolt vote and decided that people voted based on their policies. Now people are looking into their policies they suddenly have issues.

In terms of the "Up da Ra" well they get associated with that because they keep going around shouting it like one of the man TD's did post the last election.

That's before we go into all the links with organised crime.

The thread is clearly a push for SF. You posted a title about a new party and then the entire first post is about how great SF are and the only reason they are losing voters is because of their history.

Also post last election, during covid they had no problem rocking up North to a funeral which wasn't a funeral but a PIRA rally.

Clo-Clo

By the way this is the list of parties in Ireland

Now sure why we need another one?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland

ToweringPerformance

SF if they change their stance on unlimited immigration and actually listen to their constituents will walk the next election. It's like an open goal for them and they've decided to be Diana Ross.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAKsGT9-XB0

Redliketoast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121926186#Comment_121926186

I am not pretending to have analyzed their costings. As I said, I am not voting for SF, nor am I advising anyone to do so. I said that what they are saying sounds all rosy and if a new party (without the SF crap) said such things, I think they would easily get elected.

We have a tendency in this country to take a "the devil you know" attitude. But look at Leo for example. He said when he was health minister "less trollies lead to more efficient hospitals". Yet we re-elected him. What happened? Hospitals got even worse. We dont learn from mistakes and we keep re-electing people who screw us over. Again I am not saying vote for SF. Please dont!! But I am saying it is ridiculous that someone hasnt taken advantage of the clear need for a party to fill the void left by Labour. A party who are "Sinn Fein" but Not Sinn Fein.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121926270#Comment_121926270

Even not costed, what policies do they have though?

What do you think they are proposing to do differently than the current govt?

You say they have this rosy vision, but what is it?

LastFridayNight

Invest in Generative AI. Won't be long till it's at least as effective as current politicians. It can analyse data, propose policies. And all impartial- the programming model designed to get the best outcomes for Irish society.

Redliketoast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121926257#Comment_121926257

In no way trying to promote them. I can see why some would see it that way. But I mentioned them because of their unique standing. A party who have a certain popularity but will probably not get elected due to historic baggage. As for the up the Ra stuff there was more than Cullinane. They have LOADS of Ra heads which is a point I made in the OP. They have a few good politicians tbf but when you get past the first 5 or 6 names, they quality starts to disappear FAST.

This is not about SF

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058342951/badly-need-a-new-political-party

I agree with some aspects of what you say SF are trying to become what Labour once were and should have been, but SF are hamstrung ideologically and not just from the IRA standpoint. The amount of times they have voted against housing developments in DCC is just getting silly at this stage.

I disagree with you that those who you mention are good at articulating agreements. Mary Lou is no Gerry Adams, when speaking in English she resorts to cliches and is just not a very good orator. At least Adams could hold an argument think on his feet and had a presence.

Mary Lou's level of Irish is even worse than Gerry Adams was. She resorts to English phrases, and simple repetitive Irish ones, or reading off a page.

Pearse Doherty looked like he had something about him when he first appeared on the scene. But seems to be a one trick pony. His style of debate is going red in the face while waving pieces of paper in an agitated manner.

Eoin O'Brion seems OK in patches but he does not seem to have any bite about him, and is hamstrung by Republican ideology not using the name "Republic of Ireland" in his housing book for example.

"The left" in Ireland seems all over the place. You have SF tied to their Republican anchor, Labour fractured with the Soc Dems forming (some good young TD's there), meanwhile you have Ivana Bacik an academic coming out with wishy washy statements designed just to sound good.

The PBP are the other extreme. Plenty of passion, radical ideas but not really anything people can get behind. It is what SF used to be plenty of shouting and any protest they would turn up. Basically student union type politics.

To really have a new party on the left it would have to have a charismatic leader, and the ideology would have to be left of centre to attract voters. Would "The left" get behind a Holly Cairns for example? She would be a good left of centre middle of the road figure head. With the right amount of passion and drive, along with sensible policies

I mean years ago you had passionate characters on the left who could conduct a debate. Like the current President Michael D. Higgins or Dick Spring etc. Even Proinsias De Rossa with his speech impediment was a better orator and politician than many on the left now have.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121926308#Comment_121926308

The reason Sinn Fein will not get elected is because of their policies. The reason they have dipped in the polls is because of their policies. The election hasn't happened yet so who knows, maybe they will

The entire party went up the North to a PIRA rally during covid.

You made the entire thread about Sinn Fein.

Redliketoast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121926289#Comment_121926289

I want to be careful here because I am not trying to promote them and by highlighting some of the things I like would be promoting them. I am happy to talk about this away form here but really dont feel comfortable canvasing for them.

But the below is what I would want in an ideal candidate or Party. This is a list of things that I believe in. So when I vote for independents I look and see if any of their policies line up with any of what I have here. It will never match 100%. Probably never even 20%. But thats party politics. Its about getting what you can done bit by bit to achieve the end goal.

• Create a public funded construction company. Encourage young people and unemployed to take up roles in the company in an Apprenticeship capacity (but with fairer than currently wages). Rent to buy these houses out to people at cost (including cost of wages for workers on the site). Ban private companies form buying these properties and give preference to first time buyers.
• Invest in local hospitals. Each town should have a GP center. Where all the GP's can work without having to pay rental fees etc. So basically free for them to work there. These GP centers in ever town can have nurses etc also there. This could act as a place to help minor injuries and illnesses.
• Major hospitals in each county could then take major incidents. Not just move national hospitals to Dublin and hope for the best.
• Care facilities and care roles need to be better provided. More access to allow patients to free up hospital beds by giving them more home care. These carers need to see this as a viable career and should be "nurse quality". Palliative care comes under this and needs heavy investment. People should not have to wait for so long just to get 2 hours per week.
• Free education for all. I would also bring childcare under the remit of the Irish Education board. In creches and montessori's they already teach our kids and should be paid properly for doing so. They all go to college for these jobs. Getting a little over minimum wage is ridiculous.
• Rich tax. I am paid a decent wage. Not amazing but decent. I work in Data Science. I pay the higher rate of tax and rightfully so. But there are people making 200k a year and are paid the same tax band as someone on 45k a year. Thats insane. There should be 3 tax bands. What they should be set at is up for debate but having two is insane!!
• Property tax should be excluded on primary dwellings. Any second third homes etc fair enough. But primary homes should be exempt.
• Water tax yes should be implemented. But only AFTER as certain amount is used. For example a 3 bed house should have a bigger allowance than a 1 bed flat. A 10 bed house should have an even bigger allowance etc.
• Business rates need to be looked at. It should be cheaper to have a business in City and Town centers than in retail parks. BUT there should be guidelines and rules set in the contracts/permits. Businesses should have certain minimum hours. I was in Limerick last week in Arthurs Quay. 12 non on a Saturday and there was a holiday shop (I know, they still exist apparently) and it was closed. A big unit closed at peak shopping time. That shouldnt be acceptable. If you want a shop in the city center you need to ensure it is open at peak times.
• Vacant properties should be CPO'd after 18 months. There are already laws around this but not enforced enough.

Redliketoast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121926336#Comment_121926336

I cant disagree with any of what you said. Holly Cairns is a great shout. My only worry for her is that I dont know how serious the SD's are about getting into power. I think they like being in Opposition. But I really like Holly.

The lefts biggest problem is that they are all so "opinionated" that they find it hard to find common ground. Instead of agreeing on one topic at a time they all pull in different directions. I do think the idea floated before about a Labour Soc Dem party would have gotten a lot of backing. But again they are just too stubborn.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121926541#Comment_121926541

Your medical policies there go against all safe medical standards - a hospital per county would leave each hospital with exceptionally limited specialist resources and make them hideously unsafe. No party with any sense would ever propose that.

SF or a clone SF without the history would not agree with you on water charges and possibly not on property tax (Gerry has a second home, etc)

Forcing retailers to operate specific hours would cause more to close, that is an exceptionally badly thought out idea. Town centre rates being lower is a policy of some parties already.