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England v Ireland. Twickenham. Sat 9th Mar, 16:45. RTE2

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    #842
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 10,244 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    One of our forwards got a fair clatter across the head at one stage. What's happening with the offending thug? That was common assault with intention to cause bodily harm.



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    #843
    Shehal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,474 ✭✭✭Shehal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121876780#Comment_121876780

    What evidence is there to suggest the English players are better though. But then Italy may have greater potential for all we know, the fact is these English players like the Italian's havent shown it so until they do they have no argument to claim they have more potential. If you go back 15 years you may have a point, if you go back 5 you dont...the results at senior level show the 15 years model is flawed.



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    #844
    ingo1984
    Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭ingo1984


    We lost to a hungrier more physical team and not for the first time. When the opposition make it an arm wrestle we shy away, like turning up to a gun fight with a water pistol. Far too many of our pack under performed. Beirney and VDF the only two who played anywhere near their true ability. Doris anonymous in a big game again, 5 carries the whole game Vs Ben earls 20 carries. Doris passed more than he carried. Hard to get go forward ball or a platform to play from when one of your primary ball carriers is negligent of his responsibility.



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    #845
    leakyboots
    Registered Users Posts: 5,913 ✭✭✭leakyboots



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121877449#Comment_121877449

    Think you hit the nail on the head. Pack as a whole need to take that on the chin. I thought McCarthy's ruck work was very poor at times, if you watch it back look at how ineffective he was at times at ruck time. Flopping or lying across rucks, poor clearouts. He's another who is hyped to the absolute gills on here. It's no shame to not perform against the likes of Itoje but that match wasn't one to remember for him - four carries for 4m, missed 2 out of 12 tackles (he was very busy tackling-wise in the first half in fairness), penalty conceded too I think. He's young though and was part of a pack with more experienced players like POM's performance (well documented already) and Furlong (who really looks off the boil compared to before) who didn't perform as well as they can. Doris was quite poor also. I don't know how we've reached a situation where Healy is still our sub LH at this level.

    6-2 call blew up in our face also, hope that's the end of that messing.

    The Murray thing is interesting looking back at the comments - it's not Munster 2008 where we can recycle the ball for a couple of minutes and kick it out, teams don't really do that any more as it's too risky, refs are itching to call sealing off. His kick was the right call, he's hardly running on to the pitch thinking 'Ill just kick the leather off this for the few minutes I'm on' - that would be the tactical instruction from the coaches. I'd have had Casey or Blade instead of him to be honest... but both of them would have done the exact same thing I'd wager. I thought our chase was poor, think we were down to 14 then also?

    We didn't deserve it on the day, England were better. We've no divine right to win every game and if you can remember as far back as the 90s you'll appreciate more how a loss like this in that stadium isn't the end of the world, still a championship to play for. We've been spoiled since 2009 with the success we've had compared to before that.



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    #846
    twinytwo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,113 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121877759#Comment_121877759

    Our problem with England ( at least in my opinion) has been we have never been able to handle their direct/power game correctly - it has always been our banana skin. England (like SA) even when not playing great can just bring a level of intensity that is effective at winning games. So when all the rugby "experts" thought we were gonna turn up and win easily - what six nations have you been watching for the last 20 years?

    Smith going for the drop goal at the end was crazy - still had peno advantage, should have gone for the 4th try and England would have been still in with a chance of wining the championship. I dont see them them getting a bonus point win in France in the unlikely event that Scotland turn us over in Dublin.

    GS gone but i think we really needed that type of game, potentially going to SA in June have baked because we strolled the 6 nations.

    Finally something has to be done about Porters scrumming. Regardless of him being in the right or not- he has a target on his back and you know SA will be onto the refs about him for the tour. POM having to push his arm up is laughable.



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    #847
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,137 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    The lack of power this week is troubling! England's pack according to their website is slightly bigger than ours!



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    #848
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878866#Comment_121878866

    I've 20kg bigger then some of the girls in my gym and they lift far heavier weights than me.



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    #849
    Shehal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,474 ✭✭✭Shehal



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121879017#Comment_121879017

    Considering we were able to physically match the French pack I doubt the issue was lack of power.



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    #850
    BoardsMember
    Registered Users Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭BoardsMember


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121879017#Comment_121879017

    I think u need to take a good long hard look at yourself



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    #851
    ednwireland
    Registered Users Posts: 14,291 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    I thought they would try and slow the recycle at the ruck. but instead they had a lightening blitz defence that just stopped ireland playing . you see where it went wrong when crowley delayed the pass and went round england and on for a try. the England player ran too far and was caught out.

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



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    #852
    leakyboots
    Registered Users Posts: 5,913 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878866#Comment_121878866

    I find it amusing that the very thing some fans were saying Jean Kleyn should be picked for (ballast, grunt, tackles, rucks) that was laughed at, despite him being probably the player of the season for the URC winners... but deemed valuable enough for the World Cup winners to nab him from us... is now the same reason Joe McCarthy should be picked only a few months later (I agree with the selection btw).

    We are lacking in power compared to the likes of England and SA, the likes of Kleyn/Porter/Coombes/McCarthy/Edogbo (I posted before how his stats were comparable/better than McCarthy's this season up to when he got injured) are some of the few we have that have that sort of natural heft that England and SA seem to churn out with no bother. SOB, Ferris, Wallace, CJ all had it, Healy too. Henderson's power was evident when he came on, as were his stupid penalties but that's a whole different issue. Maybe starting McCarthy in an environment like that wasn't the call in retrospect, he's still quite young. He started the tournament well but I'm not sure he's hit those heights since.

    Not saying we just pick the powerful fella the whole time, that wouldn't dovetail with our style of play (which may be the nub of the issue here?) but we need more balance. Beirne and VdF aren't the most powerful in that pack but they were head and shoulders above the other 6.



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    #853
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    We literally went toe to toe with South Africa in a world cup not 6 months ago and beat them.



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    #854
    typhoony
    Registered Users Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭typhoony


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121877759#Comment_121877759

    I read comments also that the pass to the left from Baird to Conan should not have been made as it pushed Murray further in field. I dunno maybe true but Murray could have recycled again to his right to bring him closer the side-line. Either way it was a poor kick



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    #855
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 9,959 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Can we not with the Kleyn stuff? Been done to death. We aren't physically deficient against other top teams, we've literally beaten SA and France in the last 6 months, who are both just as, if not more physical than England. We lacked accuracy and intensity on Sat, which is a separate issue



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    #856
    trevezel
    Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭trevezel


    thats incredible, this chistera by Le Garrec, brilliant !



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    #857
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 9,959 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Watching the highlights, I'd say Easterby will be pretty annoyed at how easily our defensive line got disrupted in broken play. The 2nd English try especially, we ended up massively short on the outside apropos of nothing in particular. 1 phase and it's McCarthy, Sheehan, Furlong and JGP left defending the entire right side. Really poor breakdown in alignment.



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    #858
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,491 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    It's simple to explain why we lost. We lost because Murray kicked the ball to them with 90 seconds left. We played badly but were winning up to that.



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    #859
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,715 ✭✭✭✭phog


    On the decision to kick the ball.

    https://twitter.com/RTEsport/status/1767290941591662844?t=wGMJccsjWDOSnDA4R7lSmQ&s=19




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    #860
    Jump_In_Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,609 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    Anyone else think it was a penalty offence in the build up to Ben Earl’s try when an England player while lying down, reached out and picked up the ball and threw it to a moving player. To me that was a big advantage through a player that should have had to get up on his feet to touch the ball.

    Law 13 Players on the ground in open play

    Principle

    The game is played only by players who are on their feet.

    . .

    3. A player on the ground in the field of play, without the ball is out of the game and must:

    a. Allow opponents who are not on the ground to play or gain possession of the ball.

    b. Not play the ball.

    c. Not tackle or attempt to tackle an opponent. 

    Sanction: Penalty.

    Post edited by Jump_In_Jack on


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    #861
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,715 ✭✭✭✭phog


    For those still thinking Murray made the call on his own some

    https://twitter.com/The42_ie/status/1767302227792634348?t=IQaHomAUZshZiZ4LYzuDtg&s=19




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    #862
    standardg60
    Registered Users Posts: 4,259 ✭✭✭standardg60


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121877759#Comment_121877759

    Good points. McCarthy deteriorated from the first game, too much too soon and should have been rested, I'd question whether he should start next week.

    That Murray is still first choice replacement for Ireland when Casey is first choice for Munster and the fall off from Casey to Murray is already evident for them is baffling. A couple of times off England box kicks Murray still looked to block players despite what happened in the WC, just seems brainless nowadays.

    I do wonder whether coming back off injury affected both POM, that was a mare, and Keenan, who didn't look as dynamic, should be given more consideration. Maybe both should have been on the bench.

    Nash. Doesn't seem to be much made of his incident but putting yourself out of the game having had the time to lineup a blind opponent is poor execution to put it mildly.

    Furlong shouldn't be starting now, for me Bealham is ahead, Sheehan is world class, but loses confidence throwing into the lineout very quickly once a couple go wrong. Porter fell off a couple of tackles. I think the front row are suffering from a bit of well our places aren't in doubt and could do with a bit of competition.



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    #863
    ersatz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭ersatz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121880585#Comment_121880585

    No Ringrose and Keenan out of position didn't help, and even for the first try I suspect Keenan was pulled infield when Nash stayed down after his tackle. 6/2 cost us defensively later on.



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    #864
    leakyboots
    Registered Users Posts: 5,913 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Careful with your Nash comment, I got savaged over suggesting similar about Ringrose before on here 😀.

    Yeah I'd love to see Bealham start. Loosehead is a real depth issue - Porter is first choice but scrummaging is an issue. Healy should have been out to pasture after the World Cup along with Killer. Loughman is in the mix, the Leinster brigade on here are bigging up their lads coming through as is their wont but I liked the young Ulster lad in the few games I saw him (name escapes me). Reminded me of Schoeman in the loose. How's his scrummaging?

    The only excuse for Murray over Casey I can think of is A) experience B) style. Casey is a little too similar to JGP in style of play. I think Murray's race is run after this tournament anyway bar a resurgence. Casey has the best pass of any 9 on the island imo. I really like Blade too. I don't see the hype on Doak to be honest.

    Connacht have some great young lads in their team but it seems like you've to be absolutely exceptional to get an ounce of recognition if you're from that province.



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    #865
    Frisch_The_Frenchie
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭Frisch_The_Frenchie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121881302#Comment_121881302

    Did listen to the whole podcast? That was some email from Tom Murphy. Looks to a common enough vein if opinion judging by the Munster thread here too, if ye are all no longer interested in the Irish team, can you stop commenting to the death against any perceived slight on Munster players? Cheers



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    #866
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,715 ✭✭✭✭phog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121881639#Comment_121881639

    Some first posts can be powerful others can be just so obvious.



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    #867
    Frisch_The_Frenchie
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭Frisch_The_Frenchie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121881656#Comment_121881656

    Que voulez-vous dire?

    Was it Harry Potter who said that “wit without measure is man’s greatest treasure”?



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    #868
    Paul Smeenus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,319 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121881536#Comment_121881536

    They have apparently been trying Tom O'Toole out at LH in camp.


    Calum Reid (young Ulster LH) has had an operation on his back and is out for a while.



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