England v Ireland. Twickenham. Sat 9th Mar, 16:45. RTE2

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121873919#Comment_121873919

That's the diplomatic way of saying you are not a fan. Deluded fans yet we're about to win back 2 back champions, shows how far we've come that we are lambasting the team for this achievement, its literally the joint best return for any team in 6N history!

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121873879#Comment_121873879

Not sure about Henshaw but definetly Baird. I'm still a big POM fan but the one area he has an advantage over Baird, the line out, he was anonymous with.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121873938#Comment_121873938

This may come across as me talking up keeping POM but whatever

Yesterday, we lost as a team, it really wasn't down to any one or two players. We were below par across the squad, England just threw everything at us and it worked.

typhoony

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121873904#Comment_121873904

Very true about him having history of giving up stupid penalties but he also has a history of making critically important turnovers or lineout steals although I think he's notvthe same player he was a couple of years ago. Also the Henderson penalty was a bigger mistake as we had just made a very successful exit.

roverjoyce

I see no mention of England only having 14 players for the last play

How were they able to get 40 yards so handy especially out wide

Seadin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874174#Comment_121874174

The former is more common to him than the latter unfortunately.

flatface

Hats off to England, they put in a phenomenal performance yesterday, kicked less, ran and created more and dominated possession. They looked like they were going to win from the start. I wondered if they could keep up the intensity and despite Ireland keeping the score close they kept it up to the end. We struggled to contain them and never really wrestled back control despite going ahead on the scoreboard

It was not POM, or Murray or the 6:2 split. Casey or whoever would have made little difference. We were outperformed up front and that is on our team as a whole. Disappointing as hell but massive respect to a great English performance.

Deusexmachina

England put us under immense pressure from the offset. Their speed and strength were very impressive. That said, Ireland completely lost composure and reverted to a poor kicking game as the pressure grew.

That being said, it was the mark of a great team that they were still winning with a couple of minutes to play despite getting thumped in most positions.

Very unlucky with injuries especially with the 6/2 split. However, injuries always happen in rugby - and equally to the opposition.

My takeaways are:

Our vaunted strength in depth is not as strong or as deep as we might think it is.

Peter O'Mahony is the wrong choice for captain when cool heads are needed.

Murray has always had a strong tendency to kick away possession - this is nothing new. Why on earth do we keep him on the team?

Furlong is not as good as he was a couple of years ago.

Ringrose is missed.

Baird has to start.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874242#Comment_121874242

I dont how yesterday proves anything in regards to depth, it must be pretty strong if you can afford to leave Ringrose out of the 23. If you have 2 back subs and then 2 backs get injured then you will struggle replacement wise.

Inforapenny

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874196#Comment_121874196

We were so passive out wide in our defence the last few minutes, happy to drift across but not push up and put pressure on. That last attack from the lineout were they went across the other side of the pitch was very frustrating to watch.

jacothelad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121873033#Comment_121873033

By your logic, South Africa must also be the joint 'Mayo' since they lost to Ireland in the RWC but still won it. Ireland have lost to England, away from home by a point in injury time but will still win the 6 Nations unless Scotland turn up armed to the teeth with machine guns.

Inforapenny

Out of curiosity, did it make sense to move Keenan to the wing when Frawley came on and could Frawley not of come on on the wing and could Murray not of gone to the wing and left JGP at 9?

noc1980

Ireland isn't the same without Sexton. Before his retirement current players openly admitted their standards dropped when he wasn't there. When he went off in the first test in NZ our intensity evaporated. We were like a different team in the next 2 tests when Sexton was there to enforce the standard required. Schmidt also knew that if you're not cracking the whip these players can and will drop off.

robbie checker

I hope Larmour or Stockdale get a chance on the wing next week if Nash can't play. The 6-2 split doesn't work, I don't see the logic bringing on an ageing Cian Healy for Andrew porter or an ageing Henderson for Joe McCarthy and sacrificing a back. They are hardly game changers. Casey should also get his chance on the bench. Connor Murray should retire from international rugby, he basically lost the game for Ireland with his box kick in the last few minutes giving the ball to England. I was surprised when O'Mahony was made captain, it should have went to someone younger gearing towards the next World Cup. Most of the other teams are bringing through new players after the World Cup and we should do the same next year. More of this Ireland team should retire to make room for younger players to come through.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874423#Comment_121874423

The results have stayed the same it seems.

EDIT - Oh god just realised, another none rugby fan...

ujjjjjjjjj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874423#Comment_121874423

Sexton is a once in a generation talent and what he brought to Ireland will be impossible to directly replace. In essence you had a world class player and would class captain and world class manager all in one.

Can't expect miracles in terms of adding his impact back into this team.

But it is something this coaching panel must instill at all times. I know Schmidt had a incredible eye for work rate and standards. More of that attitude may be needed within the current mgmt team. Small things but in tight games big differences.

ujjjjjjjjj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874501#Comment_121874501

Good post and in hindsight all of these have been mistakes. 6-2 backfired yesterday ( I have never liked it) and POM shouldn't be starting ahead of Baird but the captaincy issue has put Farrell in a sticky mess there. I think it probably cost us a second grand slam that call. But them is the breaks and hindsight is wonderful. Hopefully demolish Scotland next week and still claim the championship.

VayNiice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121873651#Comment_121873651

Heaps of players who aren't Irish? There's 3 residency players in the Irish squad.

Compare that to the Irish soccer team which has always been full of English players with an Irish granny and not a single player living in Ireland.

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121873578#Comment_121873578

The evidence as stated far back, is that Ireland are ranked two in the world with 20 wins out of 22. Ireland do not have the 2nd most professional players in the world or the second best club teams, they do not have the second most resources, nor do they have the 2nd best record at under 20 level on average over the 2010-2020 seasons(roughly the current senior group). This would suggest that given their potential, they are overachieving, since the outcome ,2nd in the world, is better than expected.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874582#Comment_121874582

The number of professional players doesn't matter, you can only field 23 players in a squad, same goes for resources. They have Leinster who are at least top 2 in the world. Also this table below is the record at u20 six nations level over the last 5/6 tournaments (takes into account the 2020 6N that got cut half way through).

This table along with the results at senior level seem to be painting a pretty picture about who's the rightful top dog in this tournament.

typhoony

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874582#Comment_121874582

You have missed out one important under achieving fact and that is that we have failed to reach a WC Semi-final which in my opinion trump's all of your over achieving facts

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874602#Comment_121874602

Are Leinster European champions? How do you think they would fare in super rugby? Leinster are one of four clubs in Ireland, how many clubs are in France and England? We do not have the second best club game.

Why have you picked 2018 to present and how is it relevant? Joe McCarthy is the youngest player, he played in the 19/20 season, so what relevance has the last few seasons to the current senior team? Cian healy played in 2007, so I guess 2007-2020, if you really want to account for everyone.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874644#Comment_121874644

Have you not watched SR, those sides would get taken apart at the top end of European rugby. The only side on par with Leinster in Europe are La Rochelle and Toulouse. Doesn't matter, we have 4 sides that are top 8 in their competition which features SA ( who also only have 4 sides and are the only side in the world on par with us, noticing a pattern). I have picked the last 5 full championships played. You see right now you are trying to twists the facts in a way that suits you're argument. You made a point, I've provided evidence that completely counters it. Just accept it and move on.

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874673#Comment_121874673

I mean you are the one being disingenuous with statistics.

"I have picked the last 5 full championships played. You see right now you are trying to twists the facts in a way that suits you're argument."

Exactly, the last 5, so you think if we played an u25 team we would dominate the Six nations?

I assume you must think that this years u20s should be in the senior squad, since they are about to win the u20s six nations?

It obvious that you should pick the years from which the current squad is assembled, as the pool of potential players. The fact that you have chosen Ireland's most successful u20s run to back your argument l, even though the age range is irrelevant, proves to me that you are not arguing in good faith. I am surprised you doubled down on it

technocrat

Heaslip on the panel again today FFS!

He must be doing the gig for free 😂

StevenToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874854#Comment_121874854

There is no bigger sickener than him.

technocrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874880#Comment_121874880

+1

Will be watching on BBC.