Deposit return scheme improvement ideas?

marathon2022

What if as part of this deposit return scheme there was an phone app that could scan the plastic bottle(or whatever) being returned and then your scan you green waste bin and just put it in? removing the need to transport the material back again to a location with a deposit scheme bin?

I'm only posting this here because I've probably not understood something that prevents this obvious addition.

Have you guys any other ideas?

Capt'n Midnight

Too open to fraud.

You can generate QR codes in Word or Excel. It's trivial to do without leaving traces on the internet.

And there's no way to confirm that a home scanned bottle actually goes into and stays in the green bin.

freshpopcorn

I'd like to be able to type in my Revolut/etc and be sent the money!

Jim_Hodge

Who refunds you the deposit?

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058338789/deposit-return-scheme-improvement-ideas

You mean my kids can scan the same 2l bottle of coke for several hours a day.

vafankillar

the best improvement would be to scrap it.

focus on other things like forcing producers to use less plastic instead of punishing the majority of people who already recycle their bottles/cans.

how about this food companies can only use the minimum/ or certain percentage less of plastic for their packaging? a huge amount of plastic on food products (especially confectionary) is solely to take up shelf space & make their product stand out.

ted1

who pays transaction fees?

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121846966#Comment_121846966

Not perfect but if there was an effective spot checking system in place it would deter fraud, like in Tesco when you use the handheld scanners. People could rob from your bin though I guess.

Downlinz

The logical thing is removing cans from this scheme since plastic was the problematic material we weren't reaching targets on. Then it gives people a choice to avoid the cost/inconvenience of plastic drinks by using cans and continuing to recycle at home.

Currently it's a bizarre system that punishes the majority through cost or inconvenience who were recycling correctly at home in the hopes of changing behaviour of the minority who weren't.

elperello

I'd like to be able to use one of those bulk machines that was shown on the other thread.

You just pour in all your containers and the machine sorts them out.

Also I'd like it sited by the bottle banks so you could just drive up beside it.

Jeff2

I give all my stuff to someone else to put in the machine to get the refund as I can't get there but that would only make it look like it works so I'll just put mine in the green bin as I have done.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058338789/deposit-return-scheme-improvement-ideas

My best idea is to post in the already established thread discussing all that. https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058316674/deposit-return-scheme-recycling#latest

Jeff2

I'm sure someone could cut a say 2lt bottle down and put labels on all parts of it to get back more back than the charge they paid.

Or maybe not but it only a matter of time before someone comes up with a way to scam it.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847130#Comment_121847130

Well I did think about printing off 2 lite barcodes and putting them on cans. Etc

Jeff2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847212#Comment_121847212

That could actually work. Someone try it and report back.

greasepalm

Bigger bulk machines so bottles and cans can go in at once to be checked.

If there is a logo on item check instore ?

And a waste machine for bottles and cans before the scheme was thought of.

BorneTobyWilde

Machines that take full bag at a time like the rest of Europe, geez! One potato two potato ffs

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847239#Comment_121847239

there’s a 4 month transition window. After that there will be no issue. My local Tesco put a bin beside the machine for items with no deposit. It’s not really a non issue

Staplor

Any shop selling a product with the charge MUST accept returns, simple.

My local Spar charges, but does not accept the bottle back.

ednwireland

a phone app that can pay the money I to your bank account so you don't have to go into the shop.

ELM327

I hate the scheme because every time I go up with a bag of cans all purchased after 1st feb, 60-70% are not accepted even though I paid a deposit. So I'm not bothered and all of it is continuing to go in the green bin as before.

Change it so everything is included by default, and so you can create an account and get the refund to it as opposed to paper.

Furze99

Very simple. Integrate it into the well established recycling bin collection scheme, that is paid for by us.

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847584#Comment_121847584

Or just refund to your card directly at the machine

Sam Russell

Have a donate to charity bin next to the return machine, and other places.

The deposit is real money, and many just chuck the empty bottes in the waste bin.

Millions of containers have been returned for deposit so far. It is working, but too early to tell how many containers are just being binned with unclaimed deposits.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129270#Comment_122129270

Millions of containers were returned via domestic recycling bins every week. That was working too.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129388#Comment_122129388

That is true.

The purpose, as I understand it, is that the refund scheme is intended to return the container already sorted and presented at a higher value state than those fished out of a green bin, or worse, out of a black bin.

If more sorting of the green bin was done that might yield lower costs to the recyclers. For example, paper and cardboard separated, and plastic containers separated. Perhaps glass containers could be collected as well.

Of course, the ideal of recycling would be to refuse the product in the first place.

Sam Russell

Just on the above point, I saw a Swedish recycler issued different coloured bags to enable various items to be kept apart before the bag was placed in the green bin. So all plastic pots go in the yellow bag, all paper goes in the blue bag, etc.

It sounds like the next level.

Conall Cernach

Scrap the scheme and have can and plastic bottle recycling bins just like those for glass.

bk

Require online grocery delivery services like Tesco to take back the bottles (and give you a refund) on the next delivery.

It is mad that if you do your shopping via the most green manner of online grocery shopping, that you then later have to get in a car and drive the bottles to a supermarket to get your money back! How exactly is that green?

And what if you don't have a car or are elderly or disabled and that is why you use the online delivery service, how do these folks get the bottles to the supermarket and their money back?

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135414#Comment_122135414

This was discussed a few times on the AH thread but no obvious solution was found.

The main reason taking returns was ruled out by Tesco and others was hygiene.

Returns may have been stored in a shed or utility room in less than clean conditions.

It would be unacceptable to place them in the delivery van with people's grocery orders.

The elderly infirm and disabled have a particular problem.

I did suggest that a limited number of returns might be accommodated in the cab. They could be sealed in a bag and tagged with the name and account number of the customer.

Of course this would mean extra work for the driver and someone would have to process the returns and credit accounts back at the store.

All of this would add to costs for the retailer which would have to be recouped in some way.

Personally I wouldn't worry too much about customers who drive. Most of them will find themselves passing an RVM location at some time during a normal week.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847095#Comment_121847095

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847244#Comment_121847244

Looks like we might get our wish.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/machines-can-accept-100-cans-32823413

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847659#Comment_121847659

What on earth are you buying?

I've had ONE in scope, logoed container refused; because the manufacturer screwed up and never registered the barcode. That was, eventually, fixed.

I've had a few badly printed cans that took a few goes to get to work, but only one product recently and the manufacturer is aware - the barcode was significantly smaller than the minimum size of the overall spec for barcodes so invalid everywhere. Still worked if the barcode was put face down on the belt.

Bulk machines at civic amenity sites is an obvious change that could be done, pending figuring out how to give you your money; but there's plenty of places without easy access to those too. There is no requirement for a takeback location to sell drinks, I know of a location that is a hardware store. It obviously has tills for giving you back cash, and products to buy, though. And a WEEE dropoff and glass bins outside already.

3DataModem

If a store's refund machine isn't working, they can't charge the surcharge.

Or

If there aren't X working refund machine's in Y radius, you can't charge the surcharge.

… that will incentivise maintenance pretty quick, like the parking meters.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135414#Comment_122135414

is getting a large truck to deliver your Groceries the most green? Surely walking, cycling , cargo bike etc is more green

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147262#Comment_122147262

The truck is not delivering one persons groceries.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147269#Comment_122147269

it’s several tonnes and going to your house and

Who knows how far between other deliveries

walking, cycling, scooting, cargo bikes, EV would be greener

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147262#Comment_122147262

The delivery vans are not large trucks they are light commercial vehicles IE. Ford Transit size.

Walking, cycling, cargo bikes would be a more green option for some who live close to stores and have the required fitness level.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147288#Comment_122147288

They're all sub 3.5T vans. I suspect an EV SUV weighs more. Delivery is mostly offered in urban areas and has high competition for slots; the next delivery will not be far. EV delivery vans exist.

Being able to get shopping delivery may allow someone to get rid of a car entirely and only rent one when needed - not having a car on the drive eliminates lazy trips, which are the worst for emissions (short, cold engine usage).

BorneTobyWilde

Considering the millions getting man, manual return depots like the ones you see in others countries should be at least available in every large town city.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147262#Comment_122147262

Large families would find it difficult to put a weeks shopping on any of those modes. Getting shopping delivered, were enough people doing it, would take countless car journeys off the road. Once a bit more AI etc is put in place on the back end of the delivery scheduler and the trucks used to the the delivery get electrified it becomes a very environmentally friendly way to shop, might not be good for employment but there are other pros and cons as well.

In the same way that a couple of bin trucks collected waste from tens of houses at a time versus now when they still do that, as well as the car journeys needed to bring back plastics and cans to shops as well as all the newer trucks that empty the dr's machines......

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147500#Comment_122147500

a cargo bike would easily fit a weeks shopping

bin trucks collect from nearly every house. It’s very different

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147528#Comment_122147528

For a family of 4/5? About 9 K from the shop? Either way, theres not many people with young families with the money/storage/time to operate a cargo bike for the weekly shop.

And a delivery wagon delivers to more than one house and is a much more efficient way of doing the same thing from any number of angles.

If everyone shopped from home the'd delivery to nearly every house as well, the more the service grows the more positives for the environment versus the current scenarios.

Again, in relation to this DRS, we've gone from a more environmentally way of collecting waste/recyclables to a less enviromentally friendly way. There's no argument there surely?

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147543#Comment_122147543

the argument is leas than 65% of PET was. Being recycled. That number is now much higher

monkeybutter

The stupid machine should be redesigned, they keep reading as full when they are not as all the bottles and cans stack on the one side they fall in on

The trays themselves aren't big enough

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147610#Comment_122147610

Do you agree or disagree with this statement:

We've gone from a more environmentally way of collecting waste/recyclables to a less enviromentally friendly way. 

In relation to your specific statement.

"The argument is leas than 65% of PET was. Being recycled. That number is now much higher"

The "issue" was we were unable to put an accurate number on the amount of PET/Cans being collected (Note Collected, not recycled)

We have absolutely NO IDEA at this point how much higher that collection rate is right now, despite the whole point of this scheme being to measure returns versus sales (Note - note recycling rate)

We have neither a return rate OR a recycle rate from those returns published yet by the organisation responsible for the scheme.

SharkMX

Give everyone a bin that they can recycle bottle in. Thats the best idea yet. Especially if they already have one.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147852#Comment_122147852

the amount of PET bottles on the ground , in bushes etc was used to calculate the recycle rate.

Have you not noticed a decrease in rubbish on the streets ?

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147978#Comment_122147978

Well thats just nonsense.

Sadb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147978#Comment_122147978

Eamon is that you?

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147235#Comment_122147235

So that post was from the start of march. I've since been a few times and the acceptance rate for products where a deposit was paid is still not 100% but it's better than it was.

Stuff that wasnt accepted last week, even though a deposit was paid, was some specific monster cans, as well as Aldi fruit cider multipack cans… that didnt even have a barcode!!

But I went in with 3 big bags, got 12 euro back and only had a few rejects. It's getting better, it's just a bad implementation that has soured the experience for most. Of course, any rejects go straight in the black bin at home. My own petty "FU"

Sleepy

Forget about the barcodes and refund based on weight/size of bottle. Who cares if the deposit wasn't paid? It's well worth 10c to have cans/bottles picked off the street and put into the machines by the school-children of Ireland on their summer holidays.