Deposit return scheme improvement ideas?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847659#Comment_121847659

What on earth are you buying?

I've had ONE in scope, logoed container refused; because the manufacturer screwed up and never registered the barcode. That was, eventually, fixed.

I've had a few badly printed cans that took a few goes to get to work, but only one product recently and the manufacturer is aware - the barcode was significantly smaller than the minimum size of the overall spec for barcodes so invalid everywhere. Still worked if the barcode was put face down on the belt.

Bulk machines at civic amenity sites is an obvious change that could be done, pending figuring out how to give you your money; but there's plenty of places without easy access to those too. There is no requirement for a takeback location to sell drinks, I know of a location that is a hardware store. It obviously has tills for giving you back cash, and products to buy, though. And a WEEE dropoff and glass bins outside already.

3DataModem

If a store's refund machine isn't working, they can't charge the surcharge.

Or

If there aren't X working refund machine's in Y radius, you can't charge the surcharge.

… that will incentivise maintenance pretty quick, like the parking meters.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135414#Comment_122135414

is getting a large truck to deliver your Groceries the most green? Surely walking, cycling , cargo bike etc is more green

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147262#Comment_122147262

The truck is not delivering one persons groceries.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147269#Comment_122147269

it’s several tonnes and going to your house and

Who knows how far between other deliveries

walking, cycling, scooting, cargo bikes, EV would be greener

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147262#Comment_122147262

The delivery vans are not large trucks they are light commercial vehicles IE. Ford Transit size.

Walking, cycling, cargo bikes would be a more green option for some who live close to stores and have the required fitness level.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147288#Comment_122147288

They're all sub 3.5T vans. I suspect an EV SUV weighs more. Delivery is mostly offered in urban areas and has high competition for slots; the next delivery will not be far. EV delivery vans exist.

Being able to get shopping delivery may allow someone to get rid of a car entirely and only rent one when needed - not having a car on the drive eliminates lazy trips, which are the worst for emissions (short, cold engine usage).

BorneTobyWilde

Considering the millions getting man, manual return depots like the ones you see in others countries should be at least available in every large town city.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147262#Comment_122147262

Large families would find it difficult to put a weeks shopping on any of those modes. Getting shopping delivered, were enough people doing it, would take countless car journeys off the road. Once a bit more AI etc is put in place on the back end of the delivery scheduler and the trucks used to the the delivery get electrified it becomes a very environmentally friendly way to shop, might not be good for employment but there are other pros and cons as well.

In the same way that a couple of bin trucks collected waste from tens of houses at a time versus now when they still do that, as well as the car journeys needed to bring back plastics and cans to shops as well as all the newer trucks that empty the dr's machines......

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147500#Comment_122147500

a cargo bike would easily fit a weeks shopping

bin trucks collect from nearly every house. It’s very different

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147528#Comment_122147528

For a family of 4/5? About 9 K from the shop? Either way, theres not many people with young families with the money/storage/time to operate a cargo bike for the weekly shop.

And a delivery wagon delivers to more than one house and is a much more efficient way of doing the same thing from any number of angles.

If everyone shopped from home the'd delivery to nearly every house as well, the more the service grows the more positives for the environment versus the current scenarios.

Again, in relation to this DRS, we've gone from a more environmentally way of collecting waste/recyclables to a less enviromentally friendly way. There's no argument there surely?

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147543#Comment_122147543

the argument is leas than 65% of PET was. Being recycled. That number is now much higher

monkeybutter

The stupid machine should be redesigned, they keep reading as full when they are not as all the bottles and cans stack on the one side they fall in on

The trays themselves aren't big enough

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147610#Comment_122147610

Do you agree or disagree with this statement:

We've gone from a more environmentally way of collecting waste/recyclables to a less enviromentally friendly way. 

In relation to your specific statement.

"The argument is leas than 65% of PET was. Being recycled. That number is now much higher"

The "issue" was we were unable to put an accurate number on the amount of PET/Cans being collected (Note Collected, not recycled)

We have absolutely NO IDEA at this point how much higher that collection rate is right now, despite the whole point of this scheme being to measure returns versus sales (Note - note recycling rate)

We have neither a return rate OR a recycle rate from those returns published yet by the organisation responsible for the scheme.

SharkMX

Give everyone a bin that they can recycle bottle in. Thats the best idea yet. Especially if they already have one.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147852#Comment_122147852

the amount of PET bottles on the ground , in bushes etc was used to calculate the recycle rate.

Have you not noticed a decrease in rubbish on the streets ?

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147978#Comment_122147978

Well thats just nonsense.

Sadb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147978#Comment_122147978

Eamon is that you?

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147235#Comment_122147235

So that post was from the start of march. I've since been a few times and the acceptance rate for products where a deposit was paid is still not 100% but it's better than it was.

Stuff that wasnt accepted last week, even though a deposit was paid, was some specific monster cans, as well as Aldi fruit cider multipack cans… that didnt even have a barcode!!

But I went in with 3 big bags, got 12 euro back and only had a few rejects. It's getting better, it's just a bad implementation that has soured the experience for most. Of course, any rejects go straight in the black bin at home. My own petty "FU"

Sleepy

Forget about the barcodes and refund based on weight/size of bottle. Who cares if the deposit wasn't paid? It's well worth 10c to have cans/bottles picked off the street and put into the machines by the school-children of Ireland on their summer holidays.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122148063#Comment_122148063

Who do you expect to fund that?

Sleepy

Easily enough:

Part fund it out of the deposits taken for bottles that end up in the non-recycled waste (still seeing a lot of recyclable bottles being put in bins when out and about).

In theory part of the funding could be sourced from the interest accumulated by the deposits while they're resting in retailers / wholesalers accounts (I'm not sure whether retailers are paying the deposit to their wholesalers or not?). Would need to work out a mechanism for this but there's definitely value being created for someone by this money being in their account until the bottle is returned.

Finally it could be part funded by the Dept of Environment, Climate and Communications. I'm assuming it's far cheaper to pay schoolchildren (or even those on welfare with plenty of free time and who might fancy spending a day out collecting waste in order to fund a few pints at the weekend or the like) 10c a can/bottle for whatever they can remove from the natural environment than it is to pay waste collectors to do the job.

ednwireland

can the money not recovered be used to provide drinking fountains in towns across the country, then we could fill reusable water bottles . ( I know a body setup primarily to drive people to shops ain't going to fund something that stops that )

SteM

School children of Ireland becoming an army of litter pickers lol. Sure why not send them out with lawnmowers and they can cut the grass verges on motorways while they're at it. I'll continue to pay my 11yo pocket money for doing chores around the house and leave it to other kids to fight for the manky discarded beer cans on the streets if that's okay.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122148135#Comment_122148135

None of these would fully fund this. Interest wouldn't make a dent.

The DoE don't pay for litter collections; councils do and barely so at that. Most litter collection is already done by volunteers.

Any "just give a refund back regardless" schemes need to have millions a year in ongoing funding to account for potential fraud; and would have needed hundreds of millions to cover existing stock at the time of scheme introduction.

TheChizler

They should gave have done that even with a slightly reduced payment for the 3 months where there was a mix of in and out of scheme stuff on the market, the cost of funding it would have been worth avoiding the lack of trust in Re-turn and retailers that has developed since February

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122148086#Comment_122148086

The producers……they've hiked up all their prices.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149049#Comment_122149049

That money is spoken for, if you want more from them the prices go up even more.

I'm afraid we may end up using tax payers money to fund add-ons and bright ideas.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149175#Comment_122149175

Then let them do it. As I have said before the three R's need to be looked at again in the whole process.

Reduce, Reuse, Recycle

If the cost of a bottle goes but more because the producer need to pay for collection/recycling of the container - so be it. If the "market" cannot bear that cost (Reduce), let the producer come up with a reusable alternative (reuse).

Tax payers money (ie all of us) is getting used to fund this DRS "Add On"/"Bright Idea" already and its pissed off a massive amount of people.

Let the producers actually take on some responsobility rather that de-risk the whole issue.

As for "The money is spoken for" - soft drinks companies are some of the most profitable companies around - it helps when you can offload your responsibilities to the consumer.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122151037#Comment_122151037

I'm a long term advocate of the three Rs myself.

As I said before in the other thread we are left with a dilemma.

Who is the polluter ?

Is it the producer, the consumer or the regulator.

Consumers want the convenience, producers want profit and regulators just want a quiet life.

When I said taxpayers money I meant exactly that IE. Government money paid by us which I would rather see spent on other things.

Consumer/Customer money is different. You can opt out of that by adjusting lifestyle and purchasing decisions.