March Referendums

J.O. Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121873910#Comment_121873910

2 out of 3 voters voted against one and almost 3 out of 4 against the other. They were hardly defeated because people didn't like the government. These were among the biggest rejections seen - the care referendum was the biggest ever.

People voting against the ruling power can be seen as a great day for democracy in that there are a lot of places theoretically democracies where this would not happen. The fact it can and did here is great.

If these had passed the hard left would say it shows how the Irish people are so Liberal that they are for everything stand for. However most Irish people are probably neither hard left or right.

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121873910#Comment_121873910

The bitterness and hatred of the far left leaning crowd of lunatics knows no bounds as usual.

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874037#Comment_121874037

No bitterness here chief, I voted yes no after doing some research about the care referendum and looked up how disabled groups were unhappy with it. I figured they'd know more than me about the subject. I'm unsure where you're getting the hatred from.

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874005#Comment_121874005

True it's ok to be a centrist country, I've said it before, far too much polarisation in this country, political ideals imported from America.

Most here were going no no purely because of their dislike of the government.

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121873977#Comment_121873977

Ah now, this government was voted in 14 years ago, there's a huge amount of fatigue with these lads.

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874081#Comment_121874081

The far left suggestion that people who voted no didn’t know what they were voting for is nonsense, they knew damn well,

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874132#Comment_121874132

So many people I asked about it didn't know what they were voting for, any of those that did said the wording on it was terrible. If a person decides there not entirely sure what they're voting for, it's perfectly acceptable to vote no, as in keep things as they are, as a poster a few posts back said about their parents.

Couple this with intense dislike and mistrust of the government, and fear mongering about immigrants having anything to do with this, really left it with little chance of passing.

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874088#Comment_121874088

The government didn't help themselves by deliberately trying to mislead the people. It's as if some in government didn't want a yes yes either. This was just more of the green leftist airy fairy idealism. Not an ounce of reality was apparent once again.

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874162#Comment_121874162

You’re fairly changing your tune, a couple of hours ago people who voted no were a crowd of right leaning lunatics, now it’s perfectly acceptable to vote no, then you blame fear mongering about immigrants for people voting no. You’re as confused as Roderic o Gormless.

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874162#Comment_121874162

Nearly everyone I asked or heard from didn't understand what the wanted to change and especially what they wanted to change it to(that is apart fromfull time carers andthey weresick at the thought of the change).......most are not opposed to change. But it needs to be crystal clear what you want to do when you ask a population to change the constitution. I think the anti government vote was vocal but small enough.

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874245#Comment_121874245

I was referring to the right wing crowd on twitter, I'm sure you're familiar with them. Wasn't referring to all no voters, please try to read the post again.

Fear mongering about immigrants was absolutely one of the factors involved, sure you shared it here yourself.

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874239#Comment_121874239

Totally agree, they were far too confident about it.

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874268#Comment_121874268

Exactly, wording was terrible in fairness.

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874273#Comment_121874273

The “right wing crowd on twitter” as you call them are just ordinary people expressing their opinions but sure i forgot that the far left people like yourself can’t stand ordinary people having an opinion, they have to be shouted down by their betters at every opportunity.

As for me starting anything, that’s just more rubbish, if this nonsense had to have passed it would have had huge legal implications in many ares of family, taxation, social welfare and immigration law etc. your bitterness is desperate.

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874519#Comment_121874519

Anyone who speaks up a little against the left is extreme right wing.

Most of the silent majority are afraid to speak up and be cancelled and are too busy working with life to argue with the left but they had their say Friday.

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874519#Comment_121874519

Ordinary people shouting abuse at TDs fair play to them, some pretty disgraceful videos came out yesterday targeted mostly at sinn fein for some reason. Those are the people I was referring to and you're well aware of that.

I'm also not far left, most likely left of centre because I don't believe you have to be completely one side or another, all that does is create more division but sure whatever you want to believe yourself.

I'm also not bitter at all, I voted against the care referendum like most of rest of the country and I'm happy it got defeated. I do genuinely believe there was no need for either referendum and the government made a pure balls of it.

Grueller

Where does this leave the citizens assembly? This referendum was referenced as having come from their ideas.

I have kind of felt for a long while that they represent the vocal minority rather than the ordinary wo/mans views.

farmertipp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874594#Comment_121874594

you sound pretty bitter enough considering you keep rabbiting on about far right quiet a lot

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874801#Comment_121874801

Aye bitter about only being half right, Jesus I give up

Tonynewholland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874594#Comment_121874594

Targeting SF like that is like the hunter becoming the hunted

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874755#Comment_121874755

The citizen assembly is choosen at random so should be representative.

However then those chosen have to agree to take part so the more vocal minority’s I think are more likely to agree.

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874755#Comment_121874755

It leaves them and the government with egg on their faces ..... i agree re the minority factor . But I think the woman in the home had merit in being changed or adapted but they never allowed for all the little things that it was giving legal protection for anyone who read up on the waffle they proposed could drive a coach and four through it

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874981#Comment_121874981

The fear that I would have here is that a "professional" chairperson, usually a person that is well used to being on government boards etc. could drive the agenda whichever way they chose.

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121874951#Comment_121874951

No harm for them at all. As for the reasons for targeting them I personally think that people are angry worried and fed up with the real pinch that's happening in their spending power. I am actually finding it hard to wrap my head around how out of control the cost of everything has gotten in the last 6 or 8 months 🙃

gk5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121875153#Comment_121875153

I was on a citizens assembly and they are worse.

They are fully conrolled by the civil service. The citizens get very little actual say, or freedom to set the agnda etc.

You will see photos of citizens sitting around tables, but what people do not realise is that for every table there are 6 ciitizens and 2 otheres, a note taker and facillitator, who contol agenda and what is discussed /recorded etc.

No citizen is allowed to speak from the podium, just comment from their seats. The speakers are decided by the civil sevants.

The discussions from all the tables are weaved together by the civil servants who decide and give back to the citizens to allow apparent debate on wording minutae - which is irrelevant an inconsequential - but lets the plebs think they are deciding.

Then back for a majority vote on the issues with the modified wording - to mantain a tissue of democracy.

Not fully sure on the random nature of the selection for it. It is based on socio economic profilling executed by the civil service,to cover all groups, genders, etc...but personally believe it may be deliveratly biased for compliance. Also the citizens are moved around different tables to prevent opposition groups forming - i.e. to divide and conquer - ie. put each one independent thinkers in a conservative table, and you can nullify and slience them as they are outvoted at table level. It's called gerry-mandering and it works.

Food is excellent though - but it is an insult to democracy. It upset me to the point that I had to park my thougts on it - but may get back to it and post some more about it - now after 1 year, when I have time, and have fried some other fish.

gk5000

Should add - the citizens assembleys are fully recorded and attended by the media, but the media in ireland is more interested in back-slapping and getting their own message across (George Lee), or sucking up to the powers etc. than actually doing investigative journalism - and looking what is under the hood.

No Journo recorded that actual numbers at the citixens assembly or that 25% of the apparent attendees were not citizens, or that there was 1 handler for every 3 citizens at each table alone, and loads of "experts" and "professors" advising the citizens also.

Must check again, but I think the media actually left before the final key part - when the citizens had their say - and if that part is even recorded.

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121875369#Comment_121875369

Very interesting post, thanks for the insight although the truth about what actually goes on is a little disappointing.

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121875449#Comment_121875449

Did you ever think it was otherwise. We are in the age of giving the answers/conclusion first and then going looking for the questions that fit in

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121875369#Comment_121875369

How did ya get onto it?

kollegeknight

;)