Trans Women's Milk Just as good as mothers breast milk - threadbans in OP

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789168#Comment_121789168

Giving out to others about your burden of proof does not an argument make.

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121788890#Comment_121788890

The madness and delusion is only going to increase.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789318#Comment_121789318

Just a crumb of context please

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789333#Comment_121789333

Well so far we have men thinking their women, women thinking their men and what would have been sane professionals believing the delusion and encouraging it.

Then we have the powers that be trying to convince us that this is all perfectly normal and men excrete milk equal to what a woman excretes after childbirth.

Well I now identify as a brick, everyone kept telling me I was a a chip of the old block .

Large bottle small glass

Milk nutrition in terms of macro and micronutrients is one thing but there is a lot more to mammals milk.

In the world of dairy, the first milk from cow is seen since forever, as critical for the health of calf. Particularly in relation to immune function.

The importance of mother's milk is seem as vitally important in terms of a healthy gut microbe of baby.

I don't see any study in OP but a reference to a letter and a reference to a study.

For someone to make a claim that milk produced by a male is off the same value as mother's milk would require very substantial evidence. The burden of proof is very much on the person making the claim.

I've searched Google scholar and can't see it.

I last milked a cow in 1992 and up to that date the use of any medicines with milk producing cows was tightly controlled. The EU is a very different food producing environment to the USA.

victor8600

Transphobes are always drumming the old "think about children" drum. So there, science thought about children. Now children can be fed by transwomen. Check and mate, transphobes 🤣

nachouser

The thread reads a lot like our old Farage adoring friend. But anyway, given that there are currently approx 700 male to female self-certified people in Ireland, it's not really something that you will likely witness in public that will put you off your dinner / pint / cup of tae etc.

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121788869#Comment_121788869

Because with every new stupidity that comes from the deep dark recesses of the militant trans ideology:

95% of people will think it's ridiculous

5% of people will think it's a marvellous idea

The problem is that only a handful of that 95% will say anything about it because they're scared of being branded a far right transphobe by the militant 5%.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789353#Comment_121789353

"men excrete milk equal to what a woman excretes after childbirth."

Where did you read that? No "powers that be" wrote that.

Well I now identify as a brick

Hey you said it not me.

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789504#Comment_121789504

It's the whole premise of this thread, milk not me being a vrick

Get Real

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789465#Comment_121789465

I think it's dangerous to assume people who have issue with this have issue with transgender people and therefore we can simply write it off as transphobia and move on. Naturally transphobic people will use this for their own agenda too.

But, I can't believe that the NHS would come out and say this. Breast milk is so unique, an individual mother produces specific antibodies for their child depending on whether that child is sick or about to be etc.

I believe factory made milk can't replicate that (It can't) and I am of the same view on this.

Sure, Cow and Gate etc can put nutrients in their blend, antibodies and vitamins etc that can adequately feed an infant and provide for their immune system.

What it can't do is for example- if a child is sick but hasn't displayed symptoms yet, saliva from the baby interacts with the mothers body. The mothers body will begin to produce breast milk specifically to combat that illness. Fascinating really. Also, microbial gut bacteria etc.

There is no way lab or factory produced milk can react in advance like that. It will and can provide nutrition to an infant. But how can you say it's as good.

Study on the multifaceted roles of breast milk: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867421002208

Study that breast milk adapts to when a baby is sick and changes it's composition

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4232055/

Again, I'm not arguing that Trans women's breast milk is not capable of sustaining an infant. I just can't believe the NHS have said it's as good as/equal to.

I also think it's dangerous nowadays to agree with something because of this football team type politics. "Well, the transphobic community disagree with it therefore I've no issue with it"

It's okay to question things and criticise where necessary. Look up everything unique about breast milk and draw your own conclusions.

I wouldn't say infant formula is as good as breast milk (but wouldn't judge anyone who uses it) and likewise, I wouldn't say this milk is either. It can't possibly instantly adapt to a baby's requirements. Yes, it will fulfill them. Doesn't make it the same as.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789522#Comment_121789522

Then the whole premise of the thread is weak, the reported letter says nothing about there being equivalence.

"The evidence which is available demon­strates that the milk is compar­able to that produced following the birth of a baby."

Where does it claim it is equal, indiscernible from, identical to, in parity with, etc?

What do you understand the term comparable to mean?

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789412#Comment_121789412

What is a trans woman though?

ceadaoin.

Is there evidence that the milk produced by a male person is equivalent to a mother's milk? Does it adapt to the child's needs in the same way? Do they produce colostrum which is amazing for a newborn babies health and immune system and is triggered by giving birth? I don't think there is evidence of any of that.

Funny how women are told they can't consume this or that when pregnant and breastfeeding. Judged for having a glass of wine. even just taking a paracetamol or eating brie or sushi is a heinous crime. All that concern for the baby's health goes out the window so as not to hurt a male person's feelings though. There are medications and hormones taken by trans women that would never be present in female milk, testosterone blockers for one. It's nuts to say that's fine but not a woman taking cold medicine when breastfeeding for example. The same concern for possible effects on a baby should still be present so why isn't it?

Hamsterchops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789606#Comment_121789606

A trans woman is a man who identifies as a woman.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789632#Comment_121789632

And what is a woman?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121788754#Comment_121788754

oh aye?

What tablets did your mammy need to take to breastfeed you? (If she did).

In fact, any breastfeeding mothers, please what drugs were required to induce lactation?

oh yeah, none.

Curse These Metal Hands

Nothing wrong with it, will put hairs on your chest.

victor8600

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789648#Comment_121789648

Let's not take those nasty woke leftist definitions, right? Let's check what a Christian fundamentalist website https://erlc.com/resource-library/articles/what-is-a-man/ says:

The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood proposed the Danvers Statement (1988) with Wayne Grudem and John Piper editing Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood (1991). While not directly answering our question, the latter work defined manhood. Modifying that definition for our purpose, RBMW’s answer is that a man is a person whose “heart of mature masculinity” is characterized by “a sense of benevolent responsibility to lead, provide for and protect women in ways appropriate to a man’s differing relationships.” This answer stands in conjunction with another modified definition: a woman is a person whose “heart of mature femininity” is characterized by “a freeing disposition to affirm, receive and nurture strength and leadership from worthy men in ways appropriate to a woman’s differing relationships.”

Where is the gender or the sex in this definition? There is none! A person with a "heart of mature femininity", regardless of physical characteristics. I think everyone can unite around this blamelessly platonic definition :)

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789674#Comment_121789674

Tell me you don't know what a hormone is without telling me ^

briany

...

nachouser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789545#Comment_121789545

A more thoughtful response than my post deserved, so thank you for that. Before posting, I read the op's article, I looked up the quoted medical professional and her list of published studies. I would be of the mind she is more of an authority than most/all on here.

What is ironic is the educational background of the think tank spokesperson quoted is the same kind of background that would have been laughed at in the woke-ism thread.

Having said all that, the thread was clearly created as yet another "have a go at trans people" thread. The usual lads here don't care about trans people, so it is a hard sell that they care about their children either. In my honest opinion.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789699#Comment_121789699

Why the obsession with hormones, breastfeeding, top/bottom surgery and puberty blockers which are all essentially based on the physical appearance if that's the definition you'd chose to go with?

rogber

Men wanting to prove anything women can do they can do better, or at least equally well. Never changes

Hamsterchops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789648#Comment_121789648

I think you'd have much more fun asking Kier Starmer that question 😃

Woman = Adult Human Female

My Mother is a woman, and so is my wife!

Can't imagine having this conversation even ten years ago, crazy times we live In ...

KevMayo88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789718#Comment_121789718

If this "medical professional" actually believes that "Trans Women's Milk Just as good as mothers breast milk", then she should be struck off any medical register she is on, and mentally assessed.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121788853#Comment_121788853

Next time our American friend is in Ireland he can go milk your bull and see how that works out for him.

Geuze

There are men, and there are women. That's it.

If you have been present at a birth, it is observed and recorded whether the baby is a boy, or is a girl. That's it.

Women can give birth and breastfeed. Men can't.

If people think otherwise, well they are bonkers, and the world has gone mad.

victor8600

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789727#Comment_121789727

Well, what would give more clicks? A story of a transwoman integrating well into a society, or a sensational story about a theoretical trans wet nurse with huge tits?

Personally, I go with the Christian definition, of course. If the god created a boy who wants to become a woman, it is in the god's plan and it should be followed.

Could not care less

Why did you ask for a definition if you do not care about the definition?

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121788905#Comment_121788905

And on the other side we have millenia of proof women's breast milk is good.

Hell we wouldn't be here today without it.