Trans Women's Milk Just as good as mothers breast milk - threadbans in OP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790135#Comment_121790135

No they’re certainly not the same but that said they do share similarities insofar as drinking, smoking and medication etc are concerned.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790109#Comment_121790109

HRT is for menopausal women. It's very unlikely that they would be pregnant or breastfeeding, but if they were, I don't doubt they would be subjected to the same judgements and shaming about what they put into their body when breastfeeding as younger women are.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790188#Comment_121790188

If it’s unsafe for the child they should rightly stop any treatments that may cause harm or use formula.

the same as women across the world give up drinking or smoking when pregnant for the baby.

"If you do continue to smoke, you should still breastfeed. Your milk can protect your baby from breathing problems, sudden infant death (SIDS), and poor weight gain."

What other wealth of misinformation do you have?

NoMoreDonegalTuesdays

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790121#Comment_121790121

I'm not aware of any country which has banned breast feeding by women who drink or smoke, you have said breastfeeding by women who have had HRT "should absolutely not be allowed, end of story".

How do you propose to ban it? HRT breastfeeding police?

Seems very draconian and indeed authoritarian.

NoMoreDonegalTuesdays

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790190#Comment_121790190

So this is about shaming women now?

I thought it was supposed to be about "protecting" them.

Obviously not.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789014#Comment_121789014

Progestin is the synthetic form of progesterone that’s used to medicate, you might kindly take a step down off your high horse for a moment.

I’d be curious as well, if you support breast is best as your reasoning for supporting this, would you then take up the necessary therapies in order to takeover breastfeeding if your partner was unable?

I can’t see any meaningful point to this and any reason why trans people feel the need or exactly why any of them possess the desire to breastfeed.

I feel we’re coming close to a huge blur in the lines between a biological woman and a trans woman.

I can really empathise with women who feel their identifies are being taken from them with notions like this. I think it’s a matter of time before there will be little to distinguish them tbh.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789394#Comment_121789394

The EU is a very different food producing environment to the USA.

You can say that again! 😁 I’m guessing what you’re referring to is BST:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovine_somatotropin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789612#Comment_121789612

Is there evidence that the milk produced by a male person is equivalent to a mother's milk? Does it adapt to the child's needs in the same way? Do they produce colostrum which is amazing for a newborn babies health and immune system and is triggered by giving birth? I don't think there is evidence of any of that.

There is evidence (hardly substantive though given the limited cases that have been documented) that the milk produced by a male person is equivalent to a mother’s milk, and it does appear to adopt to the child’s needs in the same way which, I grant you is surprising given the difficulty with producing synthetic hormones which function in the same way as hormones naturally produced in the human body:

There's little research on whether the milk men produce would be similar, nutritionally and in immunity-boosting components, to the breast milk that women produce. One study of a man who produced breast fluid concluded that the concentrations of lactose, proteins, and electrolytes were similar to the colostrum and milk from lactating women.

"There's no evidence to suggest that colostrum between cisgender women and other breastfeeding/chestfeeding parents would be different," says Dr. Chandani DeZure, a neonatal and pediatric hospitalist at Lucile Packard Children's Hospital/Stanford University and member of BabyCenter's Medical Advisory Board.

Newborns (male and female) sometimes lactate because of an excess of hormones from their mom's body, though it's usually just a few drops. And children of both sexes sometimes lactate a bit when they go through puberty – thanks to a rush of hormones. But these conditions are temporary and rare.

https://www.babycenter.com/baby/breastfeeding/can-men-breastfeed_8824

Funny how women are told they can't consume this or that when pregnant and breastfeeding. Judged for having a glass of wine. even just taking a paracetamol or eating brie or sushi is a heinous crime. All that concern for the baby's health goes out the window so as not to hurt a male person's feelings though. There are medications and hormones taken by trans women that would never be present in female milk, testosterone blockers for one. It's nuts to say that's fine but not a woman taking cold medicine when breastfeeding for example. The same concern for possible effects on a baby should still be present so why isn't it?

All those same concerns still exist, and given the numbers are so insignificantly small and the cases are particularly unusual, they’re likely to be even more closely monitored and have judgements passed on their ability to care for their children than the kind of scrutiny, judgement and criticism masked as concerns that mothers are subjected to under normal circumstances:

While there are some medications that are unsafe to take while breastfeeding, there's no indication that the usual hormones trans people take can harm a baby.

According to Dr. DeZure: "The baby's health would not be at risk here, but rather the parent's. Transgender parents who are on a stable hormone regimen should discuss any and all hormonal changes to induce lactation with their healthcare team prior to changing a medication regimen."

I wouldn’t be concerned though about debates around “breast is best” or whatever, whether a child is formula fed or… ok maybe coconut milk might raise an eyebrow as it’s not recommended for children before 12 months, but generally speaking there’s far more important aspects to child rearing and development and so on that have rendered the old debates about nature vs nurture a bit redundant at this point:

Researchers in Norway have discovered that breast milk is not as important to the health of children and mothers as was previously thought. The study's results provide relief to mothers who do not breastfeed. The researchers from the Norwegian University of Science and Technology (NTNU) found that it is not the milk that makes breastfed babies slightly healthier than bottle-fed babies; rather a baby's health is determined before he or she makes their entrance into the world.

…

The more testosterone a baby is exposed to as a foetus, the greater the chance it will suffer from obesity, PCOS (for girls) or type 2 diabetes. For the mother, her glandular tissue in the breasts will be less developed. The result is that she will not be able to provide enough milk, perhaps no milk at all, because the ability to produce milk will not develop in the best possible way.

https://cordis.europa.eu/article/id/31662-study-finds-breast-milk-is-not-key-factor-in-babys-health

Of course the above comes as no relief whatsoever to many of the women I know who have given birth and experienced the horrors of a midwife on a mission to get them to breastfeed, and you bet those women were judged accordingly for being unwilling to keep trying when it just wasn’t working for them for one reason or another. But one of those reasons, which seems to apply in this case too is that they simply cannot produce milk in sufficient quantities in order to provide nourishment for their children.

This isn’t any kind of scientific breakthrough or breaking new ground in medicine, it’s been known about for decades, although not widely acknowledged or well understood, and like most medical and scientific advances it carries with it its own unique stigma that just because we can do incredible things with science, technology and medicine, doesn’t mean we should. The same sort of ick applied in terms of IVF when that was first introduced, still applies to some degree, but the stigma and fearmongering surrounding “test-tube babies” hasn’t really come to much in the last few decades it’s been available since Louise Brown was born back in ‘78:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Brown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790198#Comment_121790198

I never said it should be banned. Perhaps it’s just dialectical differences between us but when I say it “shouldn’t be allowed” I mean frowned upon or seen as wrong by most ordinary individuals.

Would you condone a friend, family member or your partner smoking while pregnant or breastfeeding? or indeed otherwise potentially passing on something to the baby via the milk due to any medicines they take etc?

I certainly wouldn’t be passing a lighter or offering a drink to a breastfeeding mother myself anyway or suggesting they should continue with any medications that may harm the infant. If it were my business to suggest at all obviously I wouldn’t be addressing it with someone otherwise.

in any case I apologise for the confusion I am not stating it should be banned as such rather that it would be treated with the same scrutiny as any other medical treatment may be given when pregnant or breastfeeding.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789262#Comment_121789262

Here’s a little article regarding galactorrhoea in males, aside from the minuscule prolactin hormone ordinarily found in males. This is a medical condition that does no favours for male health.

https://www.breastcancer.org/news/screening-transgender-non-binary

Transgender females need to be regularly screened for breast cancer, as the risk is considerable.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789041#Comment_121789041

You can’t put up a notice “Beware of the Bull” on the gate of the field either 😁

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121788995#Comment_121788995

Man Made being apt

HerrKapitan

I see the anti-vaxxers have jumped on another anti-science tirade.

There is no evidence trans women milk is lesser than ciss-womens milk. If anyone has a reputable link, Im all eyes.

Hamsterchops

Men breastfeeding, what next men giving birth, women with beards?

This is like some mushroom induced trip down a rabbit hole to nowhere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790073#Comment_121790073

When born males can get a female genital organs transplant they can then enjoy the full pleasures of periods, pregnancy, birthing, and menopause.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790198#Comment_121790198

HRT isn’t given to breastfeeding women 🤣 I’m 63 and my doctor prescribed it to deal with MENOPAUSE

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121788980#Comment_121788980

It's a strange world we live in now, my better half went to LLL meetings a couple of decades ago. It was all women and only women then allowed at meetings. That was fine, if I drove in then off I went for a pint. She found it great and being among women only, felt comfortable with all the demos and issues discussed. She was talking to other mothers a while back and says anyone can come along now as long as they have a baby or are expecting a baby or getting a baby and intend to breastfeed. And that it's a bit weird now at some meetings, with people who look quite male now looking on as they lift their tops.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789851#Comment_121789851

A bit dramatic?

It's the definition you've given me - I can only assume that you agree with it? If not, what is YOUR definition?

I don't accept that definition obviously as it's not based in science/fact/the real world.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790109#Comment_121790109

Anyone born with male genetalia shouldn't be "breastfeeding" babies for a multitude of reasons.

As a born heterosexual woman I know how sensitive my breasts are, intimacy involving the breast can be highly stimulating in a sexual way. Women who breastfeed often have a sense of pleasure that is not unlike sexual pleasure, when an infant sucks at the nipple. Many people enjoy nipples stimulation.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790349#Comment_121790349

And they can also enjoy being accused of being “too posh to push” if they have to have a caesarean section -

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/caesarean-sections-too-posh-to-push-or-too-poor-to-choose-1.3673078

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790360#Comment_121790360

No you missed the point being made - that prohibiting women who are on HRT from breastfeeding, is draconian, which I’d agree, it is, and unlikely to be entertained by the medical profession any time soon. Speaking of any time soon, HRT isn’t limited by age either, it’s used to alleviate symptoms associated with menopause, the patients age notwithstanding:

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/early-menopause/

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790310#Comment_121790310

Anti vaxxer ?????

I won’t burden you with my long vaccine cert, but I am vaccinated against a lot of diseases.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790399#Comment_121790399

Are you telling me the reasons why I am on HRT and have been quite some time? Very mansplaining of you. Oddly enough I do actually know that a born woman can lose her hormone producing organs due to treatment for cancer etc, and go on HRT post surgery regardless of age. I’m quite well educated in terms of biology. 🙄

victor8600

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790376#Comment_121790376

Ok, I see what you are doing here. You have asked for a definition, I have provided you with one. Are there any other posters providing you with definitions? No, because they know that your question is not in good faith. You will not accept any definition unless it matches your preconceived idea.

NoMoreDonegalTuesdays

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790380#Comment_121790380

That's a very nasty comment - it's a clear attempt to imply that any trans woman who adopts a baby and breastfeeds it is somehow a paedophile.

That implication falls down because it could also be ludicrously thrown against a cis woman who breastfeeds an adoptive baby in her care.

It's a vile comment really and a great example of how hysterically nasty and vicious the anti-trans cult has become.

victor8600

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790380#Comment_121790380

Do tell, what multiple reasons?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790430#Comment_121790430

FFS, I know there are born female paedophiles, I know several people who were abused by them as children and would call on anybody to report these destructive individuals to the law, no matter how difficult that might be. Having said that there are FAR more born male sex offenders, paraphiles, and paedophiles, whether anyone likes it or not.

seanin4711

nope all day long baby

Birneybau

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789824#Comment_121789824

Silence woman. Men are talking about men chest feeding