Saorview Updates - 2024

StreetLight

Continued from the 2023 thread.

Four new Standard Definition tests with pattern and tone have appeared on LCNs 9, 10, 28 and 31.

lgs 4

The technicians having a play time.Lets hope it's not more shite channels from Virgin media

thomasking22008

4 on test channel is 9 10 28 31 black screen at mo from test card from maghrea transmission

Glaceon

The test cards are back on the same channels now.

thomasking22008

Yeah seem to back on test channels hope do more gud channel like Irish sport channel and documentary various channel free to air terrestrial near future

Aidan McCarthy

Hopefully an irish sport channel on saorview and more channels too

KildareP

More likely, this is related to the DVB-I testing going on at the moment where SaorView is part of a wider proof of concept across Europe.

A number of scenarios are being tested for as I understand it:

• How the system operates functionally as you channel hop where there is a mix of broadcast and IP (IP channels take noticeably longer to "tune" than broadcast)
• How the system can failover to IP if you lose DVB-T (and vice versa)
• How a broadcaster can stream a channel during low viewership times but seamlessly transition it over to DVB-T during high viewership times (Six Nations, World Cups, etc.). This would allow SaorView to effectively be ~48Mbps of bandwidth that you can dynamically switch high demand services in and out of but that's seamless to the user.

dublinman1990

What are the chances that one of these test channels gets used for more Hbbtv tests on Saorview?

marclt

Does Saorview have a pricing structure that would allow for IP channels? It might mean more channels coming forward - but not necessarily high quality channels.

Aidan McCarthy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121748741#Comment_121748741

That is a good question but nobody knows. We just have to wait and see

The Cush

Just going off on a slight tangent here, as we here discuss SD and HD channels on Saorview the French and Spanish broadcasters are moving ahead with UHD terrestrial channels.

PSB France 2 launched a permanent UHD version of its channel towards the end of January and will launch a 2 month temporary UHD version of its events channel France 3 in July. All in time for the Paris Olympics.

France 2 is live and a UHD test channel is running on their R9 Mux. Both are running at a bitrate of 15 Mbps on a 34.2 Mbps DVB-T2/HEVC Mux .

Spain is testing 2 UHD channels on its terrestrial TV network, running at 10 and 15 Mbps on a 33 Mbps DVB-T2/HEVC Mux. Also, by tomorrow they are switching over all remaining terrestrial SD channels to HD.

Sam Russell

Talking of Olympic TV coverage, didn't the BBC invest heavily in 3D HD cameras to cover the London Olympics in 2012?

I wonder what happened to all those expensive 3D cameras?

I suppose those UHD cameras will become available in a few years time for very little.

Mickey Mike

Virgin Media have four channels and not one of them in HD, makes me kinda pissed off. It looks like we will end up having a ton of SD channels all picked up from Sky free to air, if that's all they can do, so be it.

Aidan McCarthy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764916#Comment_121764916

Virgin media channels are in HD on virgin media platform and sky platform but with saorview they are only in SD which is strange and ridiculous and not right. Look at other television stations in Spain and France they are way ahead with their tv stations in UHD and 4k.

Hotblack Desiato

Hard to reconcile introducing 4k DTT with the pressure that's on to give more and more of the UHF band to mobile services.

There's a big step up between SD (especially the sub-par SD which channels on Saorview are choosing to use) and HD, but is the difference between HD and 4k really worth the bandwidth on terrestrial? and for what types of content?

We could do with fewer atrocious quality (in both PQ and programming) sludge channels from VMTV that's for sure.

dxhound2005

I don't like censorship based on individual choices. We? could do with fewer channels because someone does not like them?

I say put them all out there and let those who want to watch them have that choice.

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764916#Comment_121764916

And that’s why we watch events like rugby on ITV or BBC.

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121766545#Comment_121766545

I've done it for the last 2 weekends, if the game is on VM the only option is to switch over to the UK HD channel carrying the game.

Atlantic Dawn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121766601#Comment_121766601

I'd even watch it in French or German HD if they were the only alternative to the brutal SD picture on VM.

Gerry Wicklow

As Hotblack mentions above, it's hard to see how anyone in Ireland has enough 4K content to run a 4K DTT. Even the mighty BBC doesn't run in 4K anywhere that I'm aware of.

galtee boy

I know its reliant on decent broadband, but you don't need huge speeds, the Virgin Media Player is quite good and Virgin 1,2 &3 are in HD on it and the picture quality is excellent, it's definitely an alternative to Saorview and anyone who would prefer Irish commentary and analysis on the rugby, rather than ITV or BBC.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121766453#Comment_121766453

Censorship 🤣

If the choice is between having VM4 & Challenge, or putting VM1 in HD, I'll go with the latter. Although afaik there is plenty of bandwidth available for VM1 to go HD anyway, they just don't want to.

Aidan McCarthy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121770569#Comment_121770569

I agree what you said about virgin media one but the other virgin media tv channels should be in HD too like virgin media two and virgin media three and virgin media 4 too

TAFKAlawhec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764504#Comment_121764504

3D has been a fad several times that has come & gone over the decades for various things - the problem is no one really wants to wear special glasses to appreciate its content (not to mention that for broadcast purposes it halved the vertical resolution).

OTOH there is nothing to suggest yet that video resolutions greater than 1080p like UHD are a fad, it's just taking its time to gain more acceptance as people get bigger TV displays for their living rooms. The main problem here is that when it came to going from SD to HD, much of the adoption was passive - lots of people were (and are) getting big screen TV's over 55 inches, yet are happily watching SD content on them as opposed to HD even when the HD option is available (which dovetails well in to the ongoing VMTV on Saorview argument) simply because the HD option involves going to another channel number. The major broadcasters in both Ireland & the UK know this from experience, which is why the hoards of pixellated sub-D1 SD pictures that plague the Freeview platform isn't seen as a major problem by broadcasters in the UK. 7 HD channels and that's it. Thankfully, the major broadcasters have been leading viewers by the leash into watching gradually technically superior video over the decades, otherwise B&W 373i (aka 405 line TV) would still be about!

Sam Russell

I have a TV that is 3D capable, but unfortunately I cannot see 3D at all due to my eyesight. (I do not wear specs and have 20:20 vision (or 6:6 in metric).

I think 1080P is good enough for nearly everyone, and necessary for most sports. I find VM fuzzy TV is unwatchable.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121772407#Comment_121772407

Yeah, The Chase just doesn't look the same in SD 😉

Belta TVwiz

Eh, beratna, I get where ya comin' from, yeah? No one likes da low juice, the static on da screen. But hold up, there's more to da scap than just da shine.

Sure, da picture might be a bit fuzzy, and da shows might loop like a churnin' asteroid belt. But check it, "The Chase" ain't just any old thing. It's like da drumbeat of our culture, the rhythm of da belt.

We beltalowda, we hold tight to what's ours, yeah? And "The Chase," it's like our anthem, our anthem of da hunt, da chase fer da better scap.

So don't toss it aside like space debris, beratna. Embrace it, let it echo through da hulls, remindin' us of who we are, where we come from. Da juice might flicker, but da spirit, it burns bright as a fusion torch. Oye, da Chase is on!

Mickey Mike

@Belta TVwiz you might translate that into english so we could have some idea what you're saying.

Less is often more, high quality pictures and sound on our main TV channels is a first, anything after that we might pick up elsewhere.

TAFKAlawhec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121774840#Comment_121774840

Dunno if any surveys have ever been done in the Republic, but in the UK when people have been asked wherever they prefer plenty decent (SD) quality video channels or have only about a third to half of the amount of channels in (mostly) HD instead, the former keeps winning out. 544x576i 16:9 content still keeps much of the masses happy there.

It's the same with DAB - it was originally sold on its potential to give excellent "CD" quality or close to it. But when they did that in the 90's & 00's, sales bombed where it was available (though the price of receivers didn't help). The UK decided to rejig it to reduce the effective sound quality (no longer describing it as "CD") but cram more stations in to give listeners more choice, as well as the price of receivers coming down, and it's proved to be successful. The masses have latched on to it and a fair few other European countries have taken note for their DAB+ roll outs. In the UK it is now at the point that while in many other countries listening hours and audience figures for radio is falling with broadcasters either going or being close to bankrupt, it is the reverse in the UK, listening hours has - incredibly - never been better for commercial radio there, so something right is being done there. It may upset the sound purists, but if they consider themselves to have hearing so good that they can pick up fly's fart from 3 metres away, there are often other high quality platforms available to them, usually streaming.

Nothing would please me more to see all four of Virgin Media's linear channels suddenly broadcasting in full HD on Saorview, as well as any additional HD content from the present broadcasters on the platform, and again for Freeview to start providing a bigger HD platform than the one multiplex that they currently provide. But these are (mainly) commercial decisions for broadcasters to do what they want - if there's no reason to push out the boat for video & sound quality, then they won't. DTT is very much a minority platform in Ireland, unlike Spain & France (and the UK to a slightly lesser extent) and while the same posters, myself included, can moan away about Virgin Media's channels on Saorview staying put on 544x576i, I'm sure Liberty Global has calculated that sticking with the channels being what they are on Saorview is not only not costing them significant revenues, but that upgrading even just one channel to HD is also unlikely to be worth it. And outside of technical sub-forums like this one, I'm willing to bet that the majority of people in Ireland don't care that much about it If they want VM1, VM2 etc in HD they'll either happily pay for the privilege or put up with what's freely available to them. They'll care in the same way ITV4 is still only available in SD on Freeview in the UK, and it seems very unlikely that it'll ever be available in HD for the lifetime of the channel/platform. C'est la vie.

marclt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121767364#Comment_121767364

There is a growing bank of programmes

on the iPlayer. And some sports/live events are broadcast live in UHD.

Schorpio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121777058#Comment_121777058

Be that as it may, VM are losing eyeballs by broadcasting in SD. I will always watch something on ITV HD over VM SD, and I know I'm not the only one. VM probably don't care, as their business model seems to be 'buy 'em cheap and pile 'em high' (see VM4 as a prime example).

I don't want to get into DAB too much, as it's off-topic. However, you're claiming that DAB's popularity stems from choice over quality. I disagree on that point. It's just the free market at work. Commercial mux operators are always going to try to cram their mux full of stations. More stations = more income. The same is not true of Saorview, as RTE NL controls the muxes.

TAFKAlawhec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787194#Comment_121787194

As I've mentioned several times, only a relatively small minority of viewers in the state are dependent on the SD Saorview service for viewing Virgin Media's FTA broadcast channels as most of the country has access to their HD channels via pay-TV streams. Without being privileged to their accountancy books, I'd say caring about the small amount of viewers that don't watch an event on VM1/VM2 because a FTA UK channel on satellite is carrying the same with parallel HD coverage is of little worry to them, if any, to have were the channel to be HD on Saorview. Me? I'm just glad that they actually show stuff like European soccer that is otherwise behind paywalls in the UK, I'd just wish they'd upgrade the SD resolution to match that of RTÉ News & Sky News (704 x 576).

As for the argument over choice vs. quality - there have been numerous examples of broadcasting platforms all over the world over the last 20-25 years which has shown that increasing the available choice has helped drive adoption by the masses, and that lofty ambitions of better quality but the same choice as now doesn't (with possible exceptions in some eastern Asian countries which is more down to strong regulations & laws than anything else). As for Saorview - while 2RN are responsible for the transmission network, with financial costs for appearing on the platform having been agreed previously involving the BAI in a rather convoluted manner, there's little to stop a channel appearing on the platform - it is a relatively open one provided one has an appropriate licence from Coimisiún na Meán. There is nothing technically to stop 2RN powering up a third multiplex if demand from customers was there, as opposed to Freeview in the UK where, with one exception (the PSB3 multiplex), demand still outstrips supply.

Aidan McCarthy

Hi there. The only reason is if 2rn are going to set up third multiplex which will be good but the thing is were are they going to get the money from if they are going to set up another third multiplex

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121828525#Comment_121828525

I can't see a third multiplex being set up at this stage, all of the rumblings suggest that DTT is in terminal decline now.

The Cush

It'll be cheaper for them to go the IPTV route for any additional services on saorview than rolling out a third mux, and this would appear to be the direction of travel with their testing of DVB-I and HbbTV.

FRIENDO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121828812#Comment_121828812

Hi Cush,

Would it be an option for 2rn to do a deal with the TV Companies, to have their Saorview Channels Streamed?

For example LG Channels have a good selection, to get the LG Channels your TV must be set to Location Ireland for both Broadcast and Internet.

The LG Channels are already on the same EPG as the Saorview Channels

mackersdublin

The Time on Mux 2 (Three Rock) is 90 seconds approx too fast. Mux 1 has the correct time

This happened last October and was fixed after a couple of weeks

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121829069#Comment_121829069

This would be for each individual broadcaster to contract separately with manufactures, like they do with Sky.

Saorview has transmission contracts with them for terrestrial and maybe in the future a dedicated Saorview IPTV service.

FRIENDO

Thanks

decor58

With the most recent version of the RTEplayer and the inclusion of a live facility all 3 broadcasters are available live online, so the main Saorview channels are available on line, if they could only be combined into a Saorview player and made widely available. I have one issue in that I can't get the VMplayer on either an LG or Walker tv

Aidan McCarthy

Some smart televisions you could get virgin media player on some smart televisions because I have a sony smart bravia television and I have RTE player and virgin media player and TG4 player

decor58

Great to have all 3 players, Sony appears to be one of the few brands with access to the VM player. Sony don't appear to promote the feature. I had a Sony, with VM player, many years ago but it didnt update. Do the players have access to live feeds, like I say if they could be packaged into a Saorview player, that would be a significant Saorview update. I wonder are there any other brands with all 3 players.

Aidan McCarthy

Here is the information I have here. You can install Virgin Media Player on your smart TV with just a click on your TV's appstore! In this guide, we will take a look at what the Virgin Media Player system can offer you, what channels are available, and how you can get your hands on it.

FRIENDO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121834827#Comment_121834827

As Aidan said, you should find Virgin media player in the LG App store, I have an LG TV and have the 3 Irish players RTE, Virgin media and TG4 Player.

The J Stands for Jay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121777058#Comment_121777058

The thing with Virgin Media is, most of the shows are available in HD on the ITV channels on Freesat. I generally never even look at them on Saorview.

decor58

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121840737#Comment_121840737

I have tried again without success, on a 2021 model LM6370PLA. I have the tv set to UK for broadcasting, to access Freesat and Ireland for services. It doesn't show up in the LG App store, it's in the Google play store but I don't appear to be able to download it to my tv.

speedbird834

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121840758#Comment_121840758

Yeah. I'd prefer an Irish commentary for the rugby but I simply cannot watch any Sport on the crappy VM SD on Saorview so watch in HD on ITV

Mickey Mike

@speedbird834 of course, it should be bought to VM's attention that their picture quality is no longer acceptable. I'm very surprised that no group, body or anyone even cares.

FRIENDO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121841603#Comment_121841603

Hi,

Have you made an LG Account, you must be logged in for installing some apps

decor58

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849526#Comment_121849526

I reckon I do but I am not sure, I will try again, thanks.

Banjo Carney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121834977#Comment_121834977

Not on the latest LGs you can't