Another ridiculous suspended sentence handed out

tomhammer..

https://m.sundayworld.com/crime/courts/dublin-man-22-who-kicked-oap-76-in-the-head-during-vicious-attack-walks-free/a769967585.html

Violent assualt on a pensioner and he gets a suspended sentence

I know they don't have the prison spaces but this is out of order

Be right back

Judge Martin Nolan at his finest yet again. Disgraceful judgement yet again.

Strumms

Martin Nolan strikes again.

The same guy that gives suspended sentences to people caught with massive amounts of child pornography. 😵‍💫

The 7,500 compensation won’t be much comfort to the poor pensioner. I’d say a significant proportion of that will go towards getting replacement dentures and associated treatments as a result of getting a tooth knocked out of him and his dentures smashed… about 2,000 - 2,500 going by my own dentists price list… if his gum was damaged he might need more treatments to buildup and repair his gum and that is not inexpensive.

T-Maxx

Yep. Martin Nolan. What more is there to say?

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058333127/another-ridiculous-suspended-sentence-handed-out

Well anyone renting a Hertz car will have to be very, very careful disputing any scratches.

Will they be rewriting the rental agreement I wonder? Scratches found that cannot be covered by a 1 cent coin will result in a hospital stay :-)

Disputes in fuel levels are an invite to "sleep with the fishes".

Whatever the sentence, he seems the wrong type to put in customer service. Some customers are totally loopy and having two crackpots facing off is not a good scenario.

cheese sandwich

I actually think this sentence is reasonable enough. The guy pleaded guilty and it was his first offence - yes it was a scummy attack but it seems fair to conclude he is unlikely to offend again. Nolan can be criticised for plenty but this one is not one of them

Jequ0n

I’m surprised that this doesn’t happen more frequently considering the behaviour some customer service and retail workers have to put up with. It must be extremely frustrating to see customers getting away with blatant abuse as described in the article.

Baba Yaga

for once i think that was a reasonable sentence...maybe 5 or 6 months community service as well...still a very scummy thing to do allright....,makes a change from reading about anto mcscobie with 376 previous after being on a spree getting a 2 day suspended and told to be a good lad...

HildaOgdenx

Mod - Moved to CA.

Local charter now applies.

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058333127/another-ridiculous-suspended-sentence-handed-out

what benefit would there be to jailing him? He has a good work history and no previous.

clear provocation too - pensionser was no innocent either - being old doesn't absolve you of being a cnut.

yes he was out of order for sure but given the evidence it was a once-off and with provocation.

if anything the sentence was too harsh - probation act would be been more appropriate.

Augme

This is a good example of when suspended sentences should be used. A person of previous good behaviour does something in the heat of the moment when facing an element of provocation that they then deeply regret.

Montage of Feck

Weird one as the perp wasn't the usual unemployed skanger with tens of convictions. So for once I'll accept Nolan's judgement on this.

redunited

Does nobody read the article?

They argued at the shop, and in the end, they shook hands with the matter resolved and went on their way.

Later the shop worker saw the man outside the shop and attacked him leaving the old man bleeding on the floor.

Sorry, but that's nasty and deserves jail time, or are we now saying you can attack people and get away with it?

From the article

Gda Burke told Simon Matthews BL, prosecuting, that the pensioner was subsequently on his way to the post office when Kirby came up and punched him to the ground, before kicking him to the head and face.

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669301#Comment_121669301

casual use of the word "vunerable" i see.

can agree - fellas get probabation act for a lot worse.

Gussoe

Nice that some posters express such empathy for the perpetrator, but what about the victim?

Tough luck for that loser huh?

NewbridgeIR

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669372#Comment_121669372

The victim was abusive and provoked the situation. There should be no jail time for retaliation.

CrazyEric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669092#Comment_121669092

It wasn't "heat of the moment". They argued and then shook hands, Boots is about 200 yards away from the shopping centre where Holland and Barrett is so he either followed him or saw him later.

Living in a hostel and trying to hold down a job cannot be easy and I do think if he went to prison he would become another Anto McScobie, so a suspended sentence is probably about right but as someone previously said a community service order on top would have also been appropriate.

Gussoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669394#Comment_121669394

being 'abusive' means its ok to kick someone's teeth in?

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121668676#Comment_121668676

You reckon he deserved a good beating for allegedly being an obnoxious customer?

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669394#Comment_121669394

Huh? He had more than enough time to calm down, reflect and not intentionally follow an old man to beat him up. It’s this awful type excusing attitude that is the problem

redunited

It's perhaps the lack of sufficient punishment that gives the idea to thugs that they can get away with doing such a thing.

I wonder if the family of this OAP would receive a suspended sentence if they went out looking for revenge.

NewbridgeIR

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669435#Comment_121669435

No it isn't but if you instigate a row then you have to accept some responsibility for what happens.

This guy has got a conviction, a sentence (albeit suspended) and has had to pay compensation.

The person who started the row gets off scot-free.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669472#Comment_121669472

Person who “started” row got beaten up. He didn’t get off “Scott free.” FFS

and it’s the attacker and defence promoting the provocation angle. Nothing in the article is “certain” about provocation. Claims..

redunited

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669472#Comment_121669472

Next time you are in Tesco and are arguing about your dented tin of beans and looking for a refund, do you believe you would be partly responsible for that employee violently attacking you outside the store after you get your refund?

NewbridgeIR

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669482#Comment_121669482

He got no punishment from the courts - that's what I mean.

redunited

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669500#Comment_121669500

Newsflash, you don't get punished for arguing consumer rights or wrong change in a shop!

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669500#Comment_121669500

What punishment should he have gotten? He “allegedly” had some combative words with a retail employee. He then got a hiding from the employee. The employee behaved like a scumbag. Had time to think, reflect…and chose to beat up an old man. And we have folks excusing it. World is fooked

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669372#Comment_121669372

As for the victim, Dldon't go into shops and call the shop assistants **** and junkies would be my advice.

NewbridgeIR

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669518#Comment_121669518

Maybe something along the lines of the following

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1994/act/2/section/6/enacted/en/html

redunited

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669524#Comment_121669524

I find it Ironic that someone with a Palestinian flag as their Avatar thinks revenge attacks are ok!

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669539#Comment_121669539

If the victim was a random OAP who had absolutely nothing to do with what happened in the shop and was completely innocent I'd have a completely different point of view.

I'll never justify attacking completely innocent people just because a person is angry. Hence the reason I have huge sympathy for the Palestinian people and what the Israelis are doing is disgusting.

KaneToad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121668663#Comment_121668663

I agree. Scenario is not a random attack on an OAP. This OAP had abused the accused in a shop, claimed he had been short changed and called the accused a c*nt and a junkie.

The subsequent assault on the street was ridiculous behaviour and needs punishing but it didn't occur in a vacuum.

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669301#Comment_121669301

Jail would be the wrong sentence. It sounds like the ould lad was a bit of a prick too, and the pair of them in it. Having said that, the fine is light enough and it won't go very far to getting the ould lad back to normal.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669092#Comment_121669092

Heat of the 'moment?' will you give your head a wobble. He had plenty time to decide to "not kick in a man's teeth."

AlanG

Not directly related to this case but the media seem to think that when a scrote becomes an OAP or grandparent they immediately turn into perfect little angels who can never be in the wrong. Time and again you see people described as OAP or grandmother like it makes them innocent, even if they are only in their 40's as many grandparents are.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669092#Comment_121669092

But it wasn’t the heat of the moment. They’d had an argument, it was resolved, they even shook hands after it, then the scumbag left the shop after the man and attacked him on the street.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669613#Comment_121669613

Why are folks automatically believing the defence’s claims? The judge said there “may” have been provocation. Regardless, he still behaved like a thug in the aftermath, when he had plenty time to not behave like a thug.

BrianD3

Kirby claimed that the pensioner was trying to confuse him over change and called him a cnut and junkie. Claimed. And this claim somehow constitutes enough provocation for Kirby to initiate a physical assault well after the argument had ended.

If it's going to be a case of "two eyes for an eye", what punishment should Kirby receive from family members of the victim?

Based on previous cases, Nolan clearly empathises with scum, abusers and thugs. This is the same judge (and former Garda BTW) who sentenced Garda Paul Moody to 3 years and 3 months, commenting on how Moody was remorseful and would get a hard time in prison as a Garda. The poor lad.

Of course it is "different" when someone "important" is a victim. If the pensioner in this case was a member of the legal profession, no doubt there would have been a custodial sentence.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121668663#Comment_121668663

A pensioner 76?

Now what if he did the same to an equally helpless infant that he objected to his bawling or other behaviour?

Suppose the pensioner broke a limb in the melee and died as a result?

The bloke had anger management issues, he was in the wrong job. If his employer was aware then it seems that there is some responsibility there also.

The law needs to act as a deterrent to the offender and potential offenders. I hate the never ending queue of IQ zero's that criticise "do gooders", cushy holiday camp like prisons and lenient sentences, but from my position this situationseems crazy and little more than an invite to any thug wanting to save on the cost of a punchbag.

Frankly I don't understand how you can justify your approach if you are relying on the information available here. The attack was violent, not in the shop, the pensioner was followed after the initial argument and then attacked.

Maybe the judge has different factors to consider, I would certainly hope so, because on the face of it the sentence is downright lunacy.

I hate to think what kind of world would ensue if your attitude to offenders was the norm.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669453#Comment_121669453

If you decide to call someone a c*nt you need to be prepared to deal with the repercussions.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121670296#Comment_121670296

C*nt is fairly common parlance in Ireland.

AllForIt

https://m.sundayworld.com/crime/courts/dublin-man-22-who-kicked-oap-76-in-the-head-during-vicious-attack-walks-free/a769967585.html

A youth who attacked a 76-year-old man on the street,

Since when is a 22 year old regarded as a 'youth'?

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121670296#Comment_121670296

So you have no issue with this young man kicking in the teeth of an elderly man, even after the young man had plenty time to reflect? Also, you seem ready to just believe the attacker/defense claims that the attacker was "verbally" abused

Do you believe the attacker did no wrong here?

KaneToad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669757#Comment_121669757

Fair point.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121670382#Comment_121670382

To be honest I don’t really care for either of them and from the sound of it they both behaved poorly.

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669494#Comment_121669494

If I used language like the below, kind of?

Keith Spencer BL, defending, said Kirby claims the pensioner was trying to confuse him about change and that he called him “the 'c' word”.

“He told me to go f*** myself and called me a junkie,” Kirby told gardaí.

Mr. teddywinkles

Is there not some way to legally deal with an obnoxious customer besides kicking there teeth in?

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121668663#Comment_121668663

He kicked a 76 year old in the head. That’s not a case of his temper getting slightly the better of him. If I was a gambling man I’d wager 100 quid that he’s before a judge again within the next few years.

at the end of the day was there provocation ? It doesn’t matter, I worked frontline with customers for 8 years and if you heard something you didn’t like, as happens, you come across all sorts, you have to be calm and professional enough and use common sense, good reason and coping strategies… that’s part of the job. There were plenty of people I spoke with in person and on the phone where I’d have enjoyed issuing them a good kick up the cerebellum , however.

Nolan again, I think the guy is probably some psycho narcissist who enjoys courting controversy…. Every pic you see of him… he’s never without that psycho smug grin on his mush… weird quite frankly. Just do a google image search it’s odd, as is he with some of these sentences.

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669590#Comment_121669590

It's not in the least surprising to me that someone who sympathises with violent scumbags would have a Palestine flag for an avatar.

Ficheall

Service industry people are allowed to kick arsehole customers' teeth in now? Interesting...

Boggles

Too much time had passed, he should have cooled down.

That said if you are going to go up a complete stranger, try pull a fast one on them and then call them a cúnt and a junkie, you may get your jaw broke. You have no idea who you or talking to or what sort of day they are having.

No point crying wambulance over it. If you are going to be dumb be tough, etc.

Anyway the mitigation was €7500 was awarded to the victim which I assume he excepted.