Irish voters 'hostile' to poppy symbol

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122837439#Comment_122837439

I would say EVERY single tv presenter is wearing one. I welcome anyone who is able to point out a presenter on British tv who doesn't wear one.

And nearly every single guest on every show has to wear one too.

kneemos

To honour all those who fought for freedom you absolutely must now wear a poppy.

Esel

Is it only the victors who have such a symbol?

yagan

It's been often observed in the UK that as the number of actual veterans of mass conflicts like WWII passed away the poppy became more grafted to patriotism. Those veterans were conscripts so there had been enough of them in the past to remind any war mongers that war is indeed hell, but as they passed the symbol lost its meaning and is now more a tool of militarism than a warning.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122837454#Comment_122837454

Jon Snow didn't wear one when he was presenting. Sadly the abuse he received forced him to have to make a statement pointing out that he is inundated with various badges every week and doesn't wear any of them.

https://www.channel4.com/news/by/jon-snow/blogs/wear-poppy-air

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058332627/irish-voters-hostile-to-poppy-symbol

I've always disliked this about the Irish culture. To me the poppy is a symbol of those who gave their lives for us. Because of them we can live in freedom. Suppose Nazi-Germany would still exist today? Europe would be a very impossible and unstable place.

To date Ireland refuses to do more to defend the country. Ireland doesn't even have a real air foce. The job is done by the RAF from some base in Scotland, every time the Russians are getting close to Irish airspace.

And still some Irish refuse to show respect and discredit the poppy. Many Irish refuse to believe that their country could be attacked, and even fewer see the need of well trained and well funded armed forces. NATO membership is a total militant-no go for some Irish.

I've always found that behavour odd.

Incidentally, you find lot's of poppies at St. Patrick's church. This was even a surprise to me.

They are dedicated to those Irish who served in WWI.

On a 2nd note, I've personally never been a big fan of diversity and inclusion, gay, lesbian and the whole leftiest woke-culture, as it discriminates often the white male. Remembrance is for once for the men who served, or more or less to a majority of the men in uniform.

kneemos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122837824#Comment_122837824

Not having the choice is the thing.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122837824#Comment_122837824

In my lifetime the most state backed murders on this island has been by the British state.

We still haven't received a UK state recognition for millions starved under British rule in the 19th century, and no, Blair's personal note was not read into the Westminster record so it doesn't count.

In the 1840s the British sent more troops directly from Britain to garrison Ireland to protect food exports to Britain than it actually had in India at the time.

The NAZIs did at an industrial scale in a quick time what Britain had been doing by recurring policy in Ireland and other colonies.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122837824#Comment_122837824

Your shocked that a church of Ireland cathedral in what was (and some say still is) a heavily unionist area.

Is it dedicated to all Irish who served or just ones who served a certain side ?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122837824#Comment_122837824

It's a matter of perspective.

When I was growing up, I'd be bought one by my parents on Remembrance Sunday and then we'd have our service.

Now though, it's a wholly different beast. I live in the UK and every year there's this culture war tripe over it. I remember a few years back, some Tory gammon had put it on weeks early and virtue signalled on telly about how it was never too early to honor the veterans. Same party has been dismantling the welfare state for over a decade and nobody batted an eyelid. Meanwhile, we get poppy pizzas, poppies on TfL trains, poppy mascots, etc…

Ultimately, I live in a different country so I must respect local customs and traditions. I've worked with people who wear poppies and I've respected their choice to do so. Personally, I will never wear one. It's ultimately older people who know full well they'll never have to lift a finger who are so behind backwards nonsense like this. The same types who'll shrug if you ask why Phillippe Petain was a significant figure or why Verdun matters or where the Ardennes are or, well… The list is endless.

The meaning of any symbol is ultimately context dependent. Today's it's clearly a symbol of little Englander nationalism for the most part though I do know a lot of people wear it for it's original intended purpose. As an Irish person, I cannot justify wearing one myself. Anyone screaming at or judging anyone else for not wearing it just demonstrates their pig ignorance of what it was originally made to represent.

breezy1985

The best thing about Poppy day is Mascots Minute Silence

Nekarsulm

My view on the annual Poppy wearing witch hunt is this: if you had a relative killed in WW1 or even WW2, then by all means wear it if you wish.

I remember the TV programmers from the RAH when the Chelsea Pensioners would all troop down to take their places, to great applause.

But those generation of veterans are all gone now, and to honest I think it's time for the Royal British legion to find a new symbol to sell to support troops from recent conflicts.

The whole reason it's on November 11th is because that's when the ceasefire came into place to end WW1, a war many thousands of Irish fought in, including a great great Uncle of my own.

In many/most Church of Ireland/Protestant churches in Rep. Ireland there will be a commemorative plaque naming the men from that parish who died.

On the Sunday nearest 11th November there will be a short prayer remembering them during the Service, and that's it for another year.

I think that's enough, and the overblown performative pageantry we see on tv runs contrary to the memory of ordinary men thrown into the meat-grinder of the Western front 110 years ago, in a spat between two cousins of Europe's Royal families.

whisky_galore

It's turned into a weird, nationalistic military comic con, almost bordering on a Poppy Mardi Gras now.

Wear one if you want, it's not my bag.

"But those generation of veterans are all gone now, and to honest I think it's time for the Royal British legion to find a new symbol to sell to support troops from recent conflicts."

Here's a radical concept, at this stage why doesnt their own government look after their own veterans? They're quick enough to send them into conflicts, its only proper they should bear the cost of the aftermath, not leaving it to a charity.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122837951#Comment_122837951

I am not shocked, I was positively surprised. Also Irish served in WW 1 and gave their lives. They should be remembered.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122837959#Comment_122837959

I always watch the ceremony at the cenotaph in Westminster. I've always noted that the ambassador of Ireland also puts down a wreath on behalf of the Republic of Ireland, - only that it's not red, it's green.

There is no reason, not to adopt a this culture in the Republic of Ireland as well. November 11th at 11 am means a lot in terms of the date, it was the armistice in WW 1. It means something, not only for Ireland but the whole of Europe.

If one is uncomfortable with a red poppy, one can also wear a white one, - it's more the focus on the peace.

They are doing a job far more dangerous than ours, for us to enjoy our freedom. 2 minutes of silence to be observed are not too much to ask, for what we all get in return.

Sadly, the motto, if you want to avoid a war you have to prepare for one, is more significant than ever in today's time.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122838116#Comment_122838116

The final paragraph of the post I quoted proved my point.

You're disingenuously pretending that people are against remembering the fallen when nobody has said this.

Nobody who died in the US-UK wars in Iraq and Afghanistan did so for freedom. They did so for imperialism.

If you want to defend Ireland, go enlist. Nobody is stopping you.

yagan

It's mostly just manufactured rage in the UK tabloids and media anyway. It was interesting to observe ANZAC day for a few years downunder. It was a stark contrast to the UK poppy fascist fest that's only getting worse. There were no dress symbols to project levels of patriotism, plus there were still plenty of Aussies conscripts of the Vietnam era still around to tell blowhards to tuck their heads in.

Another aspect that differs the Oz perspective from the British is that they take pride in not shooting their own for shell shock whereas the brits had executed shell shocked troops on the charge of cowardice.

The only media outrage I remember being noted was young aussies having a party while overnighting at Galipoli before the dawn commemoration service.

Now Australia is not immune to past sacrifice being twisted to new agendas, I did hear one dad explain to his son that the day was to commemorate when Australia fought the muslims. I've heard far worse said by seemingly rational people about aboriginals, but that's for another thread about eugenics.

I don't mind individual Irish people wanting to wear a poppy to commemorate their grandparents, they could don a white one to show they don't support militarism. But I have a set a grandparents who had to go into exile to the US in 1916 because his name was on an RIC roundup list in the aftermath of the Easter Rising.

Then there's all those who volunteered for the British empire and then came home to fight against the same empire that was now burning Irish towns and cities.

Anyway no doubt this thread will probably fade off soon til next October, but I think the further the UK gets from WWI in time the less the poppy symbol is about commemoration and more about displaying patriotism and adherence to the paranoid state.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122838116#Comment_122838116

Nothing surprising about it church of Ireland does this all over the country. Limerick has a WWI memorial plaque in it's CoI cathedral and a memorial in the middle of a prominent street corner between a CoI and RC church.

Cork has a WWI memorial statue on Grand Parade. People walk past it all the time and the vast majority don't care.

The truth is this is just faux surprise because nobody as into the commemorations as you would not know this.

And if you think people "can just wear a white one" you know nothing about the current state of the subject in modern England.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122838105#Comment_122838105

They do look after the vets. There's a service pension that's paid out to ex-servicemen and women.

I can't say how much that is today, nor would it be sufficient for today's expenses I'm sure. But an awful lot of people joined up during both world wars specifically because of the pension. The majority of Irish men who joined up in both WWI and WWII did so because of the wage and the pension that would be paid out afterwards.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122838757#Comment_122838757

There's next to no world war vets left, and no draft, way smaller numbers of vets so aftercare should be well within the government's ability.

crusd

Oh great, I had avoided TV recently so had forgotten about the "remember our boys" poppy nazi's

The whole fetishisation of the military within the US and UK is bizarre.

NIMAN

Another example of the BA and their murdering on the streets of Ireland.

Compensation awarded 53yrs later. After another unarmed, totally innocent civilians was murdered.

Was the murderer ever put in jail? Of course, don't be daft. You can murder Irish people and get away with it. Yet the poppy fund goes to help murderers like this in their old age.

Count me out.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/1114/1480891-billy-mcgreanery/

Randycove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122838131#Comment_122838131

Afghanistan was a UN mission, as was the first gulf war.

Are you claiming troops killed on UN sanctioned missions should not be remembered?

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122838841#Comment_122838841

Britain has been involved in more wars than just WWI and II. Plus they have a standing army too. There's plenty of ex-servicemen and women that receive service pensions from the state.

That being said, I'm sure there's many of these ex-military that wouldn't mind an extra bunt in the pension they receive. However, at present, Britain is on its knees financially after a decade of Tory misrule, so I don't think that's going to happen to any real effect and time soon.

Hotblack Desiato

The notion that British troops in WWI were fighting for "us" is ludicrous.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122839322#Comment_122839322

It's not nearly as ridiculous as pretending that America's imperialist adventures were for our freedom.

Hyperbollix

The whole poppy thing is so very English. It reminds me of the theatre of the House of Commons where getting things done comes a distant second to the mud slinging and "bantz" that's expected. Or the unnecessary, abusive jeering and taunting that goes on between fans of rival football teams. A nation that is more at home with performative gestures and collective pageantry where "King and Country" come before all else.

The J Stands for Jay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122835928#Comment_122835928

The swastika has always been a good luck symbol, strongly linked to with Buddhism. Should we ignore any more recent negative associations?

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122838882#Comment_122838882

We have annual commemorations in the garden of remembrance in Parnell square. If you were really clued in and not just fishing for rage bait you'd know that.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122838882#Comment_122838882

I suggest you actually read the post.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122839979#Comment_122839979

Depending on how it's used.

When it's used for negative purposes, absolutely people should be concerned.

Automatically assuming negative purposes, however, is equally questionable. Why should symbols be surrendered to those who poorly represent them?

Can you, or the average reasonable person, tell the difference between innocent and questionable usage in the three pictures below?