Irish voters 'hostile' to poppy symbol

Kermit.de.frog · 22-01-2024 9:59am #1

https://twitter.com/IrishTimes/status/1749297769997906259

Whatever about other symbols the poppy argument I have always found odd.

In Britain some seem to expect the rest of the world to wear the symbol of their war dead as of right.

I have no issue with the poppy at all or the commemoration by Britain of their own fallen soldiers. I don't get offended if I see Irish celebrities or sports people wearing it. I understand it's a strong symbol and dear to them.

I just can't see why we would be expected to wear that symbol. The question is a bit surreal given what had to happen in this country at the start of the last century and times before that. It's like asking people to commemorate those who fought against the establishment of an independent state.

It just doesn't make sense. The IT describes it as 'hostility'. I don't think it's 'hostility', rather it is nonsensical.

What do you think?

Dav010 · 22-01-2024 10:03am

When I lived in the UK, I never got the sense British people expected non nationals to wear the poppy, but I do see why they might expect players who represent British football clubs to wear them. I’m not sure that a player can decide not to wear a sponsor on their shirt, maybe they can but I’ve never heard of it.

Rosahane · 22-01-2024 10:06am

A huge number of Irish families have historically had family members serve in the British armed forces. At times the Irish made up 30% of those forces. Very many died in combat. I see no problem with people commenting them!

ancapailldorcha · 22-01-2024 10:33am

It's been turned in a very cynical thing here in the UK by conservatives. It makes sense for a country to want to remember its fallen but when politicians turn it into a political stick to beat opponents with, people get turned off the symbol.

Then of course, you have this:

I don't buy poppies or poppy paraphernalia. I pay taxes and that should be enough.

irish_goat · 22-01-2024 10:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121652714#Comment_121652714

Money from the Poppy appeal goes directly to veterans involved in killing Irish civilians (and others all around the world). That is reason enough not to wear one.

KaneToad · 22-01-2024 10:38am

The poppy is sold as a fund raiser for the British Legion. The monies are given to retired soldiers/their families. Some of these same soldiers would have unlawfully killed innocent people on the island of Ireland (as well as in other countries).

This is why most sane people object to the poppy. Framing it as a remembrance for those who fought in WW1 is a sleight of hand trick.

whisky_galore · 22-01-2024 11:41am

Poppy appeals are indicative of a failure of the uk govt to look after their own military veterans properly.

Wear it/don't wear it, I couldn't care less. I wouldn't wear one but neither would I wear an Easter Lily. Like disco stu, I don't advertise.

scottser · 22-01-2024 1:19pm

I lived for a good while in the UK and never wore a poppy. It was only ever remarked upon once by a bloke I worked with; I just replied that every one of those soldiers died for my right to not wear a poppy.

Anyway, why on earth should Irish people give a monkeys what the tans do?

breezy1985 · 22-01-2024 1:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121652800#Comment_121652800

Lest we forget

Archeron · 22-01-2024 8:00pm

She looks like she's being eaten by a really big duck

For Forks Sake · 23-01-2024 2:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653677#Comment_121653677

https://twitter.com/giantpoppywatch/status/795710802280017920

The performative nonsense around the poppy in the UK, especially England, is off the charts.

hoodie6029 · 23-01-2024 4:15pm

I don’t think anyone is hostile to it, the IT are off the mark there. It’s just not part of our culture despite Irish people serving and continuing to serve in the British Armed forces.

Personally, I wouldn’t wear one. Not to be anti-British, I have British relatives and friends, I work for a British company. If I was wearing one in my local town, there is a chance some local half brain will take it as the opportunity to verbally abuse me or punch me in the back of the head.

taratee · 23-01-2024 5:07pm

Clickbait nonsense from the IT. I see no hostility towards it in everyday life. People just don't wear things like that in the republic. I've never seen anyone with an Easter lily in all my years in Dublin either. I've no problem with the poppy at all and I've nothing but admiration for those men who fought in WW 1 & 2. The Red Hand is more of a surprise in this poll. It is a symbol that is respected by both communities in NI.

breezy1985 · 23-01-2024 5:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121660379#Comment_121660379

The tweet is pure clickbait. The term "hostile" isn't really used in the article and "negatively" is the term used.

It's part of a wider series the IT has done on northern and southern attitudes to each others flags, symbols and things like the commonwealth. It asks the same questions in different ways either emphasising nationalist or shared history vocabulary.

The answers to the surveys haven't exactly been shocking although I was surprised by the dislike among unionists for the shamrock even when told it's the royal symbol for Ireland and for rugby etc.

NIMAN · 23-01-2024 5:25pm

If you go back about 20yrs, hardly anyone in the UK wore a poppy.

The hype around it has been constructed in recent times, probably as spin on the illegal war they took part in to destroy weapons which didn't exist.

When we see 99.9% of British people on TV wearing them, we probably assume everyone is wearing them. But I'd guess if you wandered around most towns and cities in the UK, those wearing a poppy would be in a minority.

RetroEncabulator · 23-01-2024 5:30pm

Yeah. It's very much been turned into tabloid patriotism and completely follows the US trend towards flag worship.

Seriously though, this stuff will go down like a lead balloon in the republic and amongst a large cohort in the north too.

Any united Ireland institutions would need to be quite politically neutral on symbolism. I don't think rolling back the republic and adopting British symbolism is really an acceptable way forward.

ancapailldorcha · 23-01-2024 5:35pm

If you don't watch UK TV, you'd probably not notice unless you lived here and even then it's not that bad. The most I notice is stuff I see from social media (copied from TV) and the tube trains having poppies on the front.

Floppybits · 23-01-2024 5:53pm

I lived in England 20 odd years ago and never really noticed the poppy, certainly not like it is now. Sure you'd walk into a shop and they would have the poppy on sale there on the counter but at that time barely anyone wore them except maybe on Remembrance Sunday. No one would pass comment on whether you were wearing one or not and I don't remember too many people wearing them in work. I think it really only started around 2010 or so, it could be earlier but I don't remember it and in my own opinion was copied from the US where they were having "salute to the Troops" and this "thank you for you service" and politicians and some media companies jumped on this and turned it into what it is now.

hoodie6029 · 23-01-2024 6:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121660506#Comment_121660506

’War Christmas’ was seriously getting out of hand until the Ukraine war started. The realities of war so close to home wised the charity organisers up.

Remember up to roughly twenty years ago too newscasters and few others would wear them for the week the run up to Remembrance Sunday. Like real Christmas, it started getting earlier and earlier and bigger and bigger. Footballers wearing them, giant plastic poppies on the fronts of lorries etc etc.

And all the money being funnelled into an unaccountable charity.

The minute silence is still observed which i experienced in 2022 and it is quite powerful. I was in the NEC in Birmingham. Massive conference centre. There must have been easily 400 people in the cavernous hall I was in and you could’ve heard a pin drop in that minute.

NIMAN · 23-01-2024 6:07pm

The poppy is worn for about a month before the actual event now.

As you say, it's like Xmas. It's getting earlier and earlier, as someone wants to be seen as the first person to don it, cos that means they love the troops more than the next person.

I would have no issue at all honouring a minutes silence if I found myself in a situation that had one, but don't be a poppy fascist and shout at me for NOT wearing one.