Irish voters 'hostile' to poppy symbol

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121660506#Comment_121660506

I was born in and lived fifty years in England. I never once wore a poppy.

I was never challenged, but had I been, I would have pointed out how glad I would be to wear one if it celebrated peace and the work of pacifists.

I fail to see what's good about commemorating butchery. All this glory and pride rooted in killing only encourages more numpties to do the same.

Two people that inspired me in my lifetime were Brian Haw and Gordon Wilson.

Now those are people I would wear a symbol of remembrance for. Sadly with all this fighting for peace, those that try to achieve it in a different way tend to be overlooked.

Grayson

It is a catch 22 with the poppy. On one hand it represents the guys who flew in the battle of britain and other hero types.

On the other hand it represents the guys who committed bloody sunday and other far bigger massacres.

So I'm 100% in support of it and 100% against it.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121663522#Comment_121663522

Except that nearly all of the guys who flew in WW2 are dead.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121663651#Comment_121663651

But it's about remembrance of the dead soldiers.

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121663021#Comment_121663021

It gets earlier and earlier every year..

Tbf, I don't think we had a thread last year, or it wasn't attracting much posts if there was one

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121663674#Comment_121663674

But the money handed over for the poppy will go to some of the Bloody Sunday soldiers.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121663749#Comment_121663749

True, but you can just pick up a poppy. I was talking more about the symbol since that's what was in the thread title.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121663674#Comment_121663674

It isn't really, though. The Tories here have turned it into a cynical football as we saw recently with the Cenotaph. It's a way to demonise your opponents as being anti-British and unpatriotic here.

For a lot of people, particularly military families, it will of course be about remembrance but there's nothing more sickening to me than tax dodging tabloids based in the Caribbean pretending to care about the country.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121663674#Comment_121663674

No it's about supporting those that Britains government cast aside. It's a bit like food banks, what other nations do as a right, Britain does as a charity.

Gulf War Syndrome is typical. the US has aid for vets and the UK has charity and poppies.

Nothing new about that though, If Trump gets in the same will occur I would imagine. Trump wasn't keen on associating with the wounded despite his debilitating "bone spurs". According to Trump wounded and dead soldiers are not good for his "street cred".

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121664017#Comment_121664017

Cynical?

Not at all!

For a party so incapable, politics is the least of their abilities and if you don't do politics, you do war.

Promoting so called patriotism is the Tory way, standing in front of their nations flag was a recent sales scam as they frittered away the countries taxes to cronies for duff PPE in their countries hour of need. The TV interviews got ridiculous as it turned into a find your Tory amongst all the flags.

The tribalism of us and them is never far from the top of the "toolbox", it's what brought them Brexit and helps them demonise a few migrants for their own failings.

War is a brilliant solution to all ills, as Orwell noted, a good war is even better than razor blade production figures to get the plebs on side.

Patriotism is a nice cheap motivating tool for the Tories. It provided the ERG and a few offshore tax avoiders with tremendous gains while the so called patriots screwed their country.

While the poor "patriots" are slithering out from under their stones only to crow about pint wine bottles and blue passports, those that are reping the rewards of Brexit are keeping very shtum indeed.

The same for wars. The money for the bombs Sunak is currently throwing about at the whim of the US is never questioned, but millions to obliterate foreigners is fine, just don't put them in a hotel with £8 a week "expenses".

Even the Iraq adventure saw no one questioning the cost of splattering all those families that Britain was "helping", in fact they did everything to silence Brian Haw when he tried to show the British nation what their "generosity" did to the Iraqi children.

Notmything

January was so long it's November already.

Like Christmas, poppy thread season is starting earlier every year

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121664279#Comment_121664279

That's global warming for you :-(

I wish the tomatoes and spuds were similarly affected!

Hotblack Desiato

There's a few cases of "saw thread title, hit reply, dispense hot take" here - didn't even read the OP.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121667297#Comment_121667297

Threads change, even sat around a table with three or four people the subject branches and grows influenced by others opinions.

One of the delightful things about usenet was that a gardening or DIY question could morph into transport, politics or anything stemming from the original topic, if there was an interest it lived, branched, thrived, blossomed and eventually withered away.

There is not much to add to Brit's being a bit OTT about their symbolism. They are, it's the way it is.

What I never understood though is why the swastika, which is a nice good luck symbol apart from a brief hijacking is now taboo with them?

indioblack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121667727#Comment_121667727

Well as a "nice good luck symbol" it wasn't very lucky for people caught up in the "brief hijacking".

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121663135#Comment_121663135

You do know where Gordon Wilson was when his daughter was ‘butchered’.

if you admire him so much, I wonder how you feel about his deep love for the poppy.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Irish votes hostile to poppy symbols. I chance my mind, the country actually had gone full woke.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121667944#Comment_121667944

If you had a four leaf clover in your pocket when splattered by a HGV, would you demonise a poor plant forever?

Like Brexit, there were actually winners through the hijacking and just like Brexit also, they tended to keep shtum about it.

The plonkers marching up & down with flags spouting patriotic ditties were not the winners.

Brexit is similar in that respect, those spouting patriotism seem to have slithered out of the picture faster than the SS though, and the real winners are keeping very quiet indeed.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121668176#Comment_121668176

I know full well where he was.

I know nothing of his reasons for visiting the cenotaph and frankly they don't matter. To stop violence someone has to change. To carry on with the same hate will do nothing, the wars will continue. The bloke might have lost a family member anyway and if the grave isn't on the doorstep it might be the only practical way of deriving comfort from the loss. If the bloke loved poppies, who am I to judge? We are in an age where a bloke can love another bloke and not be hounded out of the village, I think it's great. I dont rest easy with taboos that were held for decades, but I think it's wonderful that the country is open minded and inclusive.

There was a time when I despised Paisley, I never saw him in the same light at the end of his "innings".

If someone "loves" the poppy I frankly couldn't care less, I would feel a tad sorry for them, but in all my years in England I dont ever recall a colleague, friend or even client that donned one.

I even worked at the MOD for a while and asked for a white one when the poppies came around. They didn't accommodate me :-)

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121668295#Comment_121668295

I was just pointing out that the poppy is held in very high esteem by many many people (and loathed by others) and it so happens the guy you respect held it in high esteem .

I am though a tad confused that you never saw anyone wear a poppy in England yet the sellers came around with them and you requested a white one🤔

the O Reilly connection

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653677#Comment_121653677

Are you sure that's not a gobshite?

https://youtu.be/aWwNeS2Yeb0?si=Htbb_gx1mUs8x32r

Anyone who wears a poppy endorses biggotts like these.

https://youtu.be/Nhjxe_Nd9fE?si=hQoVF_l53YJ7MUbd

These too.

indioblack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121668211#Comment_121668211

The altered version of the swastika became less popular after 1945, [the end of the "brief hijacking], and I'd be surprised if the aversion to it is confined to people in Britain.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121668359#Comment_121668359

I imagine they did at the MOD, it was along while back, but there were no wearers in my department, they would have stuck out like a target in the calibration lab, as for elsewhere I cannot recall. I never felt that strongly until the Gulf war, it was only then I thought about the slaughter and started to despise anything glorifying war.

Growing up in England we were brainwashed into thinking ours was the country of fairness, of law, of integrity, even "free speech" which the UN have commented on recently. The British police are now right up there with the KGB, the Taliban and the Iranian Morality Police in stifling dissent.

I do know I never bought one in my life, despite being indoctrinated by the Valiant and Victor. [A bit like the Mail but more adult and without the boobs].

After the oil steal then no, I would have noticed and probably had a rant too because my personal values are far removed from those you would assume a poppy wearer has.

Even if you buy the things out of charity rather than the gratitude for tales of butchery and slaughter, the military should be paid by the taxpayer and those that made a fortune out of the adventures.

It seems only right that those who stole Iraqs oil should shell out for the wounded personnel and not leave it to charity after all. Even bank robbers have honour, you don't see them selling poppies for fallen comrades.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121668380#Comment_121668380

If you say so, but I would find it hard to believe most apply that much thought to it.

Scotland is very tribal.

It's the only place in the world I was racially abused.

Wetherspoons in Dunfermline, by a very drunk Scotsman who obviously hated the English as he picked on me because of my accent.

Such a shame I didn't have the Irish passport with me :-)

He was ejected, but I couldn't really feel any animosity toward the bloke, though I have the utmost contempt for racism, I found it pretty funny really.

I did like Scotland though, I always looked forward to working there, even though the beer & food was disgusting nearly everywhere.

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121668211#Comment_121668211

There's a trend, or a meme on twitter of quoting a post out of context and saying "you'll never guess what this is in response to"

Well, you'll never guess what this is in response to:

If you had a four leaf clover in your pocket when splattered by a HGV, would you demonise a poor plant forever?

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121668521#Comment_121668521

No?

But do you not see it's an identical situation?

Some are inspired and believe in their magic symbols In the case of the four leaf clover it's solidarity for early Christians and hope, faith, love and luck. I'm sure Adolfs followers wanted similar?

Symbolism is a wide ranging human need. it is a bond like a uniform or music that unifies tribes and makes some of the plonkers look really stupid when they try to justify how their strong emotions are expressed in a worthless trinket.

I think that deliberately damaging someones valued symbol is a far different matter than having it banned from use because a particular tribe took a liking to it and adopted it as their "brand".

It really is that simple and it's no different as far as poppies go, they mean nothing to me.

If people tie too much into symbolism it's going to be a bit awkward is it not?

England wouldn't have a union flag for a start seeing as the EDL have adopted it as a banner and of course the Tories use it as an advert to sell their snake oil with.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121668447#Comment_121668447

Some amazing stuff in your posts:

eg

“The British police are now right up there with the KGB, the Taliban and the Iranian Morality Police in stifling dissent”. This one needs no response

&

“my personal values are far removed from those you would assume a poppy wearer has”. Yet you have just named one as one of the two people in the world you admire most 🤔

you a so far off the scale I think I’ll check out of this chat👍

Tony EH

I don't think that Irish voters, in general, are "hostile" to the poppy at all. The fact is that most Irish people couldn't give a toss about the poppy, especially the younger generations for whom it means nothing.

However, it is very concerning that over recent years the poppy has become a symbol that the right wing in Britain, especially England, has latched onto as a nationalist show piece and that "poppy fascism", as john Snow phrased it, has become commonplace over there which the worst type of so called "patriots" use as a pressure tool. The symbol has been hijacked and used not as a mark of remembrance, but one of enforcement of a certain type of view. A certain type of view that is, itself, inherently hostile.

In any case, I would think it's hardly surprising that there might be a number of Irish people around that might harbour some animosity toward the wearing of the poppy given the history of British interference on this island. In fact, it would be remarkable if such a reality wasn't the case.

To the British, it may be a symbol of their dead from all wars. But to many other people around the world, those war dead shouldn't have been in a foreign land in the first place.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121668669#Comment_121668669

I understand your difficulty, it isn't uncommon.

You can stretch poppy wearing to any other activity in human life also.

Your logic is simply that all poppy wearers are bad which cannot be the case.

If you dont understand the repercussions of the latest UK legal antics then why comment on them? Maybe you don't agree with freedom of speech or the right to dissent, but in my youth it was acknowledged as one of the things that made Briton stand out amongst other countries, in fact there was a place in Hyde Park dedicated to mainly fruitloops for the purpose.

Freedom of speech is the same whether policed by The UK police, the KGB or the Taliban, you either have it and the power to express dissent, or you don't. It really is that simple.

Montage of Feck

The poppy is pure tabloid jingoism, not a coincidence that it became a thing at the time of the Iraq war. Respect the troops and don't ask awkward questions!