Amatuerism v Professionalism. Small budgets v Big budgets. Has the horse bolted?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121634724#Comment_121634724

The Danish league is a good comparison but I don't agree with your "invested in" bit. 50% of Irish people I know or probably even more than that don't care about GAA. The Danish league also gets extra funds from being involved in European competition, the FA gets funds from International competition and also clubs get transfer fees from abroad. It is also 1 sport not 2 which is a problem for GAA

It's still a great comparison though and shows that we could sustain a 10/12 team professional league with 15/20k average attendances.

There will be a hell of a lot of disappointed counties though. Not just 20 out of 32 because people forget these pro leagues usually have 2 or 3 teams from the capital and maybe 2 from the 2nd city.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121635381#Comment_121635381

Every sport has clubs all over the world. Another of these weird myths the GAA orgasms over is we are the only sport with expat foreign clubs (and don't bother coming back with the propaganda articles about the locals taking it up).

It is a completely unknown anonymous sport in London who actually have a team never mind the rest of the world.

No one "envies" GAA because they don't know it exists.

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121635443#Comment_121635443

The teams would have to be spread evenly around the country. Dublin would get one because they could sustain it but other areas would need to amalgamate. You'd need less populous counties to amalgamate with a more populous neighbour and situate the home ground in a convenient location to all. So for example. Meath, Louth, monaghan with the home ground in Navan or Dundalk. Repeated around the country till all 32 counties had a team round which to rally.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121635381#Comment_121635381

We are not tripling our population in 20 years.

I don't know if you have noticed but a lot of our population growth has come from outside Ireland.

From experience it's very difficult to get the kids of immigrants into GAA.

They'll come as under 6s and try it for a while but to them and their parents it's a totally foreign sport that they never saw before and they don't last long.

They tend to stick longer at soccer or basketball, sports that are more familiar to them and their parents.

So even though the population might be increasing there is no guarantee that the drivers of that population will become interested in GAA.

As for there being clubs all over the world, you are right, there are, but it's just a hobby for those involved, it's a social sport.

Even in North America where the GAA has had a presence for decades it's just a social sport.

Soccer has been trying to break North America forever and is still way behind the other big sports, and an international sport like rugby is almost invincible in the US.

So how do you expect GAA to get traction?

thinkabouit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121635443#Comment_121635443

No i wouldn’t agree with that at all, there’s very few team sport’s outside of soccer or the mainstream stuff we see on tv, that has the connection’s or system’s The GAA have in other country’s.

And there all in their infancy really.

I can remember when iv been on holiday’s abroad all over the world and if your in an Irish bar or sports bar or whatever there’s always been GAA on the tele and the places are packed drawing huge crowds.

So I don’t underestimate how popular GAA is in the world. It’s in a very good place at the moment.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121635771#Comment_121635771

"Or the mainstream stuff we see on TV"

You only know this because we see it on TV. Other minor sports have their tiny expat clubs too you just don't see them.

And yes if you go into an Irish bar abroad you will see GAA. As for other sports bars I call bullsht on that.

No foreigner I ever met heard off GAA I til me or another Irish person told them about it and non took it up.

You and a large portion of this thread are living in some little dreamland GAA bubble.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121635695#Comment_121635695

That's a nice ideal but what big professional sport has the capital (or major population like NY/Glasgow/Sydney) only has one team.

3 separate Dublin teams could have more of a population than most counties.

dxhound2005

Going back to the first post, it was prompted by something which made no reference to Pay for Play. The Amateurism v Professionalism title is misleading, and there is no prospect of Pay for Play. Ryan has loads of questions and is looking for a review of everything. It is just hot air. Things will continue the way they are, with plenty of money for backroom teams. That is what the counties want.

I wonder what he means by his reference to the GPA though? The GPA have become more powerful over the years, and while players at the top level are not professional, they are getting well looked after. There is less stuff in the media these days about paying players than years ago. I think this is because of the progress the GPA has achieved.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41307658.html

“We also need to review our relationship with the GPA and ensure that how we support our inter-county players is done in the most beneficial and cost-effective manner possible in the best interests of our players and the overall Association.”

kksaints

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121635771#Comment_121635771

There's optimism and then there's this. If any sport is going to benefit from large expat communities in its non traditional areas it will be cricket not the GAA. There isn't going to be an explosion in popularity in the GAA outside of Ireland, it's non-existent outside of expat communities abroad. Maybe go to some non-Irish pubs abroad next time.

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121635814#Comment_121635814

Yes they could but all your looking for is that the team is sustainable. Across the 3 counties I gave as an example the population would be north of 400k. More than enough to ensure 15k per game for any professional team.

If you based all the teams round the population centres you'll lose the areas without teams. Other sports would take over and you'd lose talent and it would eventually hurt the game. It wouldn't be a good move alienating 30 to 40% of you market and probably the areas most invested in the sports to begin with.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121635771#Comment_121635771

You seem to have started from the position that Professionalism and new league structures could work, and so are shaping everything to fit that position. So the GAA is super popular all over the world, people will flock in their tens of thousands to this new format, counties will join together with great enthusiasm, etc etc.

The problem is that its all bunk.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121635896#Comment_121635896

I agree that amalgamation is the way to go but some will fail and the country will be left with gaps. Look at the rugby hotbed but population challenged area of Pontypridd for example. It's great to say they "could work" but real world examples are hard to come by. Money will force the moving of the Limerick/Tipp/Waterford joint team to Fingal just like every other pro sport.

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121635695#Comment_121635695

I think that's fine sentiment and only one an amateur association can make work. But one that the GAA has failed to do.

And in the harsh world of semi professionalism or professionalism, where only jerseys sales, eyes on screens, and bums on seats work, it's hard to see a 32 team competition/s working. I would say 5 to six semi professional teams in hurling at most. Perhaps 10 in football.. maybe even not that many.

A real problem to get something off the ground like this is that people can only think in terms of professional soccer and the elite leagues at that...

But this is about the culture of a country and entrepreneurism too. For somewhere like the USA, there are 5v5 street league tournaments that have grown within ten years to have serious partners and prize money of a million dollars. A street league. Not professional.

A sport can create it's own niche without having to compare with the biggest sports in the world.

thinkabouit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121635965#Comment_121635965

And think of the economic benefit’s to the country.

Fans travelling all over the country to game’s & having proper stadiums to go too.

Look at the money Football brings in to the UK.

It all has to start somewhere?

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121636145#Comment_121636145

But that's already happening and has been for years.

Go to Mayo v Dublin, Kerry v Dublin, Kerry v Mayo or Mayo v Kerry in the league and you'll see what a big game on a Saturday night does for the economy of a town in January and February.

dxhound2005

There could be 2 football teams in the North. Antrim, Down and Armagh combination. And Derry, Tyrone, Fermanagh. They would play all home games in the new Casement. Bringing much needed prosperity to that part of the UK.

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121636232#Comment_121636232

You mentioned a roundabout of 3 teams. What about the rest. Mayo have been lucky enough to be in the mix for more than a decade. Look at Leitrim, Carlow, Longford. There's no one going there or travelling from there because they're not lucky enough to have the population or the economic circumstances to put them in a position to be competitive.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121636881#Comment_121636881

But that has always been the case.

It's that way in most sports.

There are soccer teams in England that have never been out of the bottom two divisions.

No matter what big plans people come up with it will always be the case.

For the likes of Leitrim promotion out of their division, a win against the bigger three teams in Connacht or a good run in the Tommy Murphy Cup are what counts as success and something to be proud of.

tastyt

I can see any attempt at this dying when the word “ amalgamation “ is suggested to counties . People , especially GAA people grow up with their colours as almost a religion and a heavy dislike if not sporting hatred of there neighbours .

Best of luck trying to get Kilkenny and Wexford to change their colours and join together , same with Tipp/Clare , Louth/Meath just so a few lads can earn a few quid playing ball .

Dick phelan

Having 8 or 10 teams would never work. Firstly fans aren't just going to support some newly formed team. People are passionate about their county team, lads from the local area. I can say as a Waterford fan I would have no passion for another team made up of a mix of lads from multiple counties. I'd question too if the players would have much love for it either. Suddenly Waterford, Kilkenny and Wexford lads are supposed to be one team. Apart from that comparing GAA to the Danish soccer or Portuguese league is absurd. Benfica for example sold Enzo Fernandez for 105m. That's how they can sustain the kind of wages they have.

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637223#Comment_121637223

Its the case in sports that allow complete imbalance. Soccer is a terrible example of how a sport should be ran as its all about money. NFL and Aussie rules are better examples. Dallas Cowboys are the richest sports team on the planet but haven't won a superbowl in decades because they are contained by a draft and salary cap. Teams that make better decisions have won with far less resources. There's only a handful of teams that have never won a superbowl and most of them have gotten there at least once.

Imbalance is not the way it has to be.

thinkabouit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637342#Comment_121637342

If we’re thinking ahead a few decade’s i believe it would. Most Players won’t give one crap who they will be playing for if there’s a 5 year contract with guaranteed money.

dxhound2005

If it turns out like American sports, the Waterford/Wexford/Kilkenny franchise could move to Cork or Galway.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637744#Comment_121637744

I absolutely hate both the franchise and draft systems. I also hate all the convoluted league and conference systems used in America that is sadly seeping into European sports.

thinkabouit

I still stand by my statement that the GAA is well placed to go professional in the not too distant future.

Looking at those numbers,there’s plenty of cash around.

thinkabouit

$270 New Zealand dollars is almost double the euro, so an amateur organisation like the GAA generated not far off what one of the most iconic sports brands in the world generated.

thinkabouit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121637744#Comment_121637744

I doubt it because Investment in infrastructure would be collosal id imagine.

csirl

If gaelic football goes professional, it wont resemble or be based on historic country structures or amalgamated counties. You'd see 10-12 teams based in populated areas. Dublin would have 2-3 teams. You wouldnt have e.g a combined Meath/Louth team - but you may have a North Leinster team.

Some things to think about:

Soccer sustains a pro/semi-pro league, so GAA should be able to.

When rugby turned professional you didnt have e.g. combined Blackrock/Terenure/Belvedere team etc. from the Irish League. You got "Leinster". Traditional rugby supporters ties (excuse the pun) to club were just as ingrained as GAA supporters to club/county.

Once a sport turns pro, freedom of movement of players is allowed (required under EU laws). So players would not be confined to being "selected" by their local teams.

Pro players would not be playing amateur intercounty or club football in the offseason or on days off.

CrabRevolution

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121642709#Comment_121642709

That cash is all spent though. Are you under the impression the GAA just save it all and have a bank account swelling by tens of millions every year?

You're also (unsurprisingly) not comparing like for like figures. The GAA figure you use is the combined revenue of the GAA central council, all 4 provincial bodies, and all 32 county boards, but the NZ figure is just for their central body.

You'd need to include the revenue of all the NZ clubs in super rugby, plus all their provincial unions and domestic clubs to get the full figure.

evolvingtipperary101

I see The Examiner has named a lot of refs who failed fitness tests. That seems mad to me. Another instance of amateurs being treated like professionals. Hung out to dry in the media. Very odd. What purpose does it serve to write that amateur refs failed a fitness test, just after christmas... other than fill column inches for the journalist

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121642739#Comment_121642739

New Zealand rugby are not "one of the most iconic sports brands in the world". Not even close.

Most of the world doesn't even know the shape of a rugby ball.

New Zealand rugby is actually a great example of how tough professionalism is for a country our size. Professional southern hemisphere rugby is in serious jeopardy.

thinkabouit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121643335#Comment_121643335

Nonsense, if you talk to anybody in the world about New Zealand & Whats it’s famous for.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121643310#Comment_121643310

No that’s not what I’m saying.

But what the gaa is making is as an amateur organisation is quite impressive. Up there with New Zealand.