Can I save my marriage?

Big Bag of Chips

Honestly that in itself sounds very innocent. How often were you drunk at the peak of it? How many times in a month?

He doesn't need to have been drunk for his drinking to be a problem in his marriage.

@Despondent I've given you some advice from the point of view of the wife in this situation. Regular posters here would be familiar with my history with a problem drinker. A drinker who wasn't always drunk, was never abusive (although, I suppose you could say he was mentally abusive), never missed a day in work, was very handy and helpful around the house. Was the main earner in the relationship. But.. was drinking 5 out of 7 nights. And drinking enough that he wasn't "present" in the family.

I honestly don't know what to advise you with regards your wife's feelings. I think you need to give her a bit of space. You're possibly smothering her a bit. Very deep damage has been done to her and to your relationship. You are now trying to fix it but is it too late? I'm sure she spoke to you at times about your drinking and you disregarded her. She probably raised concerns at various times and you ignored her. It took a fairly catastrophic decision on her part for you to see what she was saying. That's hurtful. You changed. You were capable of change but why push her to her limit before you decided it was time?

These are all things that she is struggling with. I do believe she would get some benefit from Al-Anon if she would attend. Or even individual counselling for herself. She needs a bit of space to work through what she has endured in her marriage. It might be the end of the road. It might not. But you both need a bit of individual time to figure it out. I'm not going to go so far as some others and say how you are behaving is unattractive to your wife. How you behaved for years is what was unattractive. That's when then attraction was lost. That's when the communication broke down between you. That's when the connection between you was broken.

It is possible to fix it. But I think not as you are at the moment. You both need to work on yourselves first. And then you can look at working on the marriage if you both feel it can be saved.

Despondent

I just sat down with her and told her that that her non answer from Sunday says to me that she doesn't feel that there is any hope, and I don't want to drag this out if she can't even imagine a positive future with us together.

I laid out what I think needs to happen, that each of us moves out for a week at a time until we can get something sorted. I also said I want to book a summer holiday for the kids, and if she doesn't want to come, I'll book it for a week without her.

I've gone out now to give her space to think.

I feel sick

spaceHopper

You are at fault here, yes your drinking was unhealthy in many ways. But you aren't the only one at fault, she's been at best a difficult drunk several times. She spent lots of time upstairs away from you. There was nothing stopping her from watching a movie with you. You supported her. For a long time you were the sole bread winner. Every time she gets drunk - you're the bad guy and you get the sh1t. She runed the tip to Bulgaria by being a hostile drunk. Really I think she's gaslighting you into taking all the blame. Before all this happened think back, what happened if she didn't get her way in something or did she always get her way?

The one time you lay out to her what will happen if you separate and she gets a dose of reality she has a change as heart.

Frankly if you want to save your marriage, you both need to go to counseling alone and together. My impression is she won't want that because she is happy with the way things are, she has home, the kids. If she could only get you to stop asking if everything is fixed yet.

89897

OP I agree with Big Bag of Chips and have experience where the problem drinker doesnt quite see the problems in their drinking. I know you've quit totally so obvously you have recongnised the part drink paid in alot of the problems but have you properly taken stock in what damage it has done to your wife and likely the kids too?

Im the daughter of an alcoholic and like yourself they were for the most part functional, never abusive, never neglectful in that we were fed and clothed but what did the long lasting damage is that they were never mentally there, never emotionally reliable and cause terrible tension in the family. It took alot of recovery for them to see what being drunk was really doing and it took along time and alot of work for them to win back trust.

You have put alot of thought into the future and what you want/suggest to do, which is great, but have you given her any indication that you recognise what has happened for the past number of years?

Maybe this is exactly what she needs. I dont think its fair to say shes happy with what shes got house/kids etc. It take so much more than happy to have a happy relationship and family.

Sounds like counselling for you both should be the first step in any moving forward. Being remorseful is one thing but actions and acceptance speak louder.

marilynrr

There's a few posts passing blame towards your wife OP, maybe it wasn't all about the drinking or maybe it wasn't about the drinking at all, perhaps she just grew apart from you after you have been together from such a young age, and when she was searching for a reason to explain it all she could come up was the drinking. It can be extremely difficult for people to reflect or understand things like that properly while they're still in the relationship. Some people learn that stuff in counselling and for others they understand it after the relationship is over and they've had time and space and can naturally reflect without the pressure of trying to fix it.

It doesn't sound like she has done anything wrong to me, she's been telling you she's not happy now for several years and keeps getting talked into trying again, it doesn't sound like she's encouraging all this self-flagellation either. It sounds like you're doing that to yourself. It doesn't sound like she's asking you to change this, that and the other and constantly making out that you're the bad guy who needs to make amends, she's just telling you she's not happy and not in love. Just try to avoid going down the victim way of thinking which it seems some people are pushing. She's not the bad guy for falling out love. There doesn't have to be a bad guy when relationships end.

You said you put it to her that each of you moves out for a week at a time until you sort something out. If she wants to end the relationship but doesn't want to follow that plan then you shouldn't take that to mean well then we're stuck here together so we have to try again. The reality of the situation is that many people stay living together until they sort something out even though that can be complete torture and probably not the best thing for most to do anyway.

Dial Hard

Sorry, OP, but I think you've pulled this move to try and basically scare/shock her into suddenly realising she does want to save the marriage. That's a very disingenuous and potentially very risky move. It's well documented that you should never issue an ultimatum unless you're prepared to accept the consequences, but I don't believe for a second that you're ready to accept that your marriage is over if she does turn around and say "Actually yeah, I'm done here, I'll bugger off for my week as soon as you're back from the holiday".

If the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result, then I'm afraid I have some bad news for you. You've spent months and months essentially trying to talk your wife into staying. You've been advised again and again that you both need individual and couple's counselling, but haven't done a single thing about it. I don't understand how you can have expected anything to change when you haven't done anything material to try and effect that change other than giving up drinking. Which is commendable, obviously, but it's very clearly not enough.

Despondent

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122025892#Comment_122025892

I have asked her to come to counselling with me or go to talk to someone on her own and she doesn't want to do that. (she initially agreed one day, but then later on changed her mind when I tried to actually book a session) I can't drag her kicking and screaming and tie her down to the chair, can I.

I am not trying to trick her into doing anything at all.

All I've asked her is if there is any hope. I'm not asking her to immediately love me again and everything is perfect.

I am fully aware of the consequences of the 'ultimatum'. If she decides there is no hope we can fix this, then at least we can begin working on how to deal with the consequences.

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122025950#Comment_122025950

FWIW I think you might have done the right thing. If she wants to move on, you've made it a lot easier for her, if she wants to work on the relationship she knows you're available for that too. It's not unreasonable to expect some movement, realistically she must know if there is a bit of hope or not.

Big Bag of Chips

People will seek counselling when they are ready. She's not ready. You can't force her into your timeline. I can't remember if you've been attending counselling. If you have you should continue. But don't force it on her. For now she is "managing". They day might come where she realises she's no longer managing. Or, she might actually continue as she is without feeling the need to attend any type of counselling.

Ending a marriage is a huge step. There are repercussions and consequences beyond just ending a relationship. People not in your situation can often flippantly advise people to just walk away. Just read through a few threads here and any relationship with any problem the advice is generally "dump him/her". Your relationship, your wife, your children, your drinking, your problems are all just a few lines of text to us. Once we close down this thread most of us are not really going to give it much thought at all. But this is your life, your marriage, your wife's life, her family. It's not a simple case of dump him/her.

You should concentrate on yourself. Improving yourself. Looking in to why you behaved like you did, why you treated her the way you did and why it took a meltdown on her part to make you cop on. She will also have to look at herself too. She will when she's ready. But you can't rush her along. You make the decisions you feel are right for yourself. She will make hers. They might align. They might not. But one way or another it will resolve eventually.

marilynrr

@Despondent

At best I think you could get her to attend mediation, which I think is mandatory before going to court if there was custody disputes etc. Open to correction on that though. But again obviously she couldn't be forced, it's just mandatory in the sense that you arrange it, if one person refuses to attend then that looks bad for them in court.

Why have you not arranged counselling for yourself?

All I've asked her is if there is any hope. I'm not asking her to immediately love me again and everything is perfect.

If she said there was hope then how long before it becomes too much again? 11 days ago you seemed to have hope but you were finding it very difficult to live with someone who said she didn't love you. If she comes back now and says she has hope how long will that keep you going for? What if in a month she says her feelings still haven't changed?

I think if there was any chance of her feelings coming back she really needs a lot of time and space and that seems impossible in this environment because on your side you need to see signs that this is changing.

You really really need to focus on yourself, if she says there's hope and you want to believe that then you have to take some of the pressure off her and watching and waiting to see if things are improving.

marilynrr

Do both of you even have somewhere to go for a week at a time? Is it even a valid option?

Despondent

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122026120#Comment_122026120

Yeah, I think we both can do this in the immediate future

Kurooi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593324#Comment_121593324

OP just keep in mind

Andrea B.

Physical separation (space), has the highest likelihood of 1 partner seeing others. Especially as the likelihood is that that 1 partner has checked out and grieved the relationship for a lot longer than the other.

Monkey -branching (seeing what the other side (single life / other people)), is also a risk, but all dependent on the individual.

Staying in a "maybe" she'll come around zone (physically separated or not), is not a healthy anxiety space to be in.

I believe the ultimatum on "I need to know if you are going to give us a go or not" is a fair request.

NiceFella

Not sure if this is pertinent here. Something I noticed in my behavior that I notice in a lot of men also is that when our partners goe silent on us, it is sheer torture to us. We can't handle it.

So what do we do? we try and chase it away by being nice and the perfect husband etc etc which isn't bad necessarily but it's actually just kind manipulation. In my immature ways I used to try make my partner forget she was angry at me. A completely self serving way of behaving.

A mature person realizes that we all have processes in emotions. If someone is angry because we've made them so, all we can do is note why. But we do not have the right to chase away how they feel. That is theirs alone. This is were you have to sometimes stand back and allow the person recover themselves. It's living in doubt for us but breathing space for them

spaceHopper

I think you've done all you can, its up to her now.

I'd advise you to get counseling for yourself. Start saving some money incase the worst should happen. Start developing hobbies and spend more time with you kids.

If she want's to save the marriage it will be much easier with couples counseling - that's something she'll have to accept.

Despondent

She told me last night there is no hope

Tonight she is going to stay with some family. I'll stay here with the kids in the family home, and next Monday we'll swap for the next week.

She refused counselling

sigh

Big Bag of Chips

At least she's being straight with you. Now you can start to move forward. Swapping every week isn't going to be sustainable long term, so you'd both want to look to separating properly, both having separate living spaces. Mediation would be a good start. It will help you sort things through with a professional who knows these things.

You'll be ok. It's sad that the relationship is ending but you'll both move on and be ok.

Good luck.

NiceFella

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122049698#Comment_122049698

I'm sorry it didn't work out the way you'd have liked it.

You did your best and you sound like a really great and decent man. Don't let it define you. These things happen and people fall out of love for any number of reasons. Doesn't mean you did anything wrong. Do some counseling by yourself to get yourself right and be the best dad you can be. Be good to yourself and make sure to have some positive aphorisms for yourself every day. You'll get there.

Despondent

Yeah the swapping thing is short term. We'll sort out the arrangements when our heads are a bit clearer. Main focus at the moment is on the kids and helping them understand what's about to happen as best we can.

I'm glad we tried. And I hope we will be able to do a fully amicable permanent settlement when the time comes. I'm broken hearted but I bear her no ill will and fully expect that we will both treat each other fairly and move on with our lives as friends and co-parents of our 3 wonderful children.

I do still love her, so I'll need to focus on finding a way to stop loving her in that way.

spaceHopper

Sorry, don't let all this fall on you she's the one who's refused counseling when everybody knows its the best way forward, let her own that. I wouldn't move out of the house until you've gotten legal advice. Keep a diary of everything said and anything that could comeback on you.

Sunny Disposition

Sorry it didn’t work out the way you had hoped. It sounds like ye are breaking up in as amicable a way as possible, which will hopefully make things a bit easier.
Don’t go back on the drink, that won’t help you.

Andrea B.

Sorry to hear OP.

Mind yourself and as others have said, don't blame yourself.

People are complex and people change and go different directions.

The smallest positive is that you at least know now and can move out of the "maybe" zone.

taxAHcruel

Well at least you know. There is now a lot less "what ifs" and uncertainty in you planning how to move forward in life. And you did your best and tries what you could and were willing to try more. So you can move forward without a lot of the "What if only I had tried X" kind of thinking.

It's not a good outcome or the outcome you wanted. But in terms of walking the path forward - a lot of the uncertainty and second guessing the past can be bypassed and you can move forward with a determined and clear head.

laketreeroger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878609#Comment_121878609

she seems to be a nasty drunk. That is a problem, a sure sign to give up the ale.

laketreeroger

be very careful in just presuming it will be all very amicable. I hope it is for you but please don’t be naive with this very important situation in your life.

Bobtheman

You are changing the only person you can change - yourself.

You can decide in a few months whether it's working or not. For you. You have a lot of history.

I assume your wife is no longer drinking heavily. Speaking as an ex heavy drinker there is no point trying to move a relationship forward with a heavy daily drinker

Some of the comments here are bizzare. Stolkholm syndrome?

My advice which I will probably get wrapped on the knuckles for is to get a decent counsellor. Fettle. Ie have a lot of people online. I don't work for them.

I would leave this thread as a lot of people are going OTT

marilynrr

@Despondent

Realistically counselling wouldn't have worked, it can't make people fall in love and would have just given more false hope. You both tried and unfortunately it didn't work out but at least now you're not going to be in limbo.

You said you have to focus on finding a way not to love her that way, you're probably going to go back and forwards between all sorts of emotions and the coming days/weeks could feel never ending and like you'll never feel right again, but it will pass and things will get better and you'll be happy again. Make sure you keep talking to your family etc and look after yourself and as another poster said try not to go back on the drink because it won't help.

Despondent

Yeah, going back on the drink definitely isn't a good idea. Not gonna do that. Still have my kids to think of and need to put myself in a good place physically and mentally.

Thanks for the messages. everyone. I don't think I'll be posting in here anymore but I appreciate everyone who tried to give advice

Despondent

This is really awful. I hate it .

I've booked counselling for myself starting tomorrow.

I hate this