Can I save my marriage?

bilbot79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121611596#Comment_121611596

I think you may have misinterpreted that post. He meant the OPs description of his own drinking suggests it's not that bad but the wife is perceiving full blown alco.

I have to presume the drinking is more problematic than the OP is letting on.

Really what needs to happen here is the OP should give up drinking for good. My father did this for my mother, they're now late 70s married.

Despondent

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121652913#Comment_121652913

I fully accept that my drinking was a huge problem and I haven't touched a drop since Early November and have no intention of drinking again. I have already made this commitment to my wife.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121652965#Comment_121652965

Look I think you're making all the right choices right now.

And I think journaling some of it like here even in a reserved way as a sounding board will help you get some of your thoughts out.

From a purely external looking in from the outside based on the information. You're a normal couple who fell into this hole and a small ladder can get you both out. It's not insurmountable, finding things that you both can do separately and share together would be a great idea. Outside of big events.

Best of luck 👍

Big Bag of Chips

OP, early November isn't that long ago. This is all very raw for your wife. As I mentioned before, regular posters here will have an idea of my history with a problem drinker. But, I can 100% guarantee if my husband had posted here his description of his drinking would be unrecognisable from my description/experience.

He'd have said: he enjoyed a few drinks some evenings. He was the bread winner in the house, I didn't work. He earned a good wage that supported me and 4 children. He was never abusive. He never missed a day's work. He cooked and cleaned at home. Yes he enjoyed a few cans and a night in the pub once maybe twice a week but he worked hard, earned the money and deserved a bit of down time.

And technically none of that is untrue! But a lot is omitted. The reality of telling me I was the problem, and I was making a bigger deal of this than necessary. I just didn't want him enjoying himself. The reality of "a few cans" and falling asleep on the couch was my daughter, who was 12 at the time had written in her diary that she was too embarrassed to invite friends over because "daddy would be asleep drunk on the couch. My friends' dads don't do that".

My husband hasn't drank in almost 4 years. He gave up after I'd finally had enough of his unacceptable behaviour (much more than he'd have outlined if asked about his drinking) but 4 years later I still am very much struggling with the aftermath of it. A counsellor has used the word "trauma". I cried when she used it because it was a word I had used to him previously and maybe felt I was overreacting. Hearing it from an impartial person finally made me realise I had lived a trauma. And that I wasn't exaggerating it. November is no time ago. Your wife is struggling and will struggle for a long time yet. That's why counselling, and maybe Al-Anon would be a huge benefit to her. If your marriage is to survive it'll be her decision and not really dependent on anything you do or don't do. Make changes to yourself. Let you wife know you do actually appreciate her and love her. THAT'S what will save your marriage, if it can be saved.

Despondent

Today is the day I'm returning home after staying with my brother. I tried to give her as much breathing room as possible but couldn't help myself sending her one or two messages a day because I missed her a lot.

She did not always acknowledge the messages which was a major downer.

Last night I sent her a long message about me coming home and hoping that there is still a home to come back to. I told her what time my bus was coming in and that I hoped she would be able to meet me at the bus stop.

I also said she could message me or call me at any time last night or today and then I tried to go to sleep.

She did end up calling me back last night and we spoke for almost an hour. I still don't know if anything has really changed in her mind, but it was really nice to speak with her and to hear her voice again.

I didn't drink any alcohol in the time I was away, including several nights when I was completely on my own and went into the city and even went into some bars to try to find people to talk to. But I was really lonely for a lot of the past week and wanted to prove to myself that I could be on my own and not fall back on Alcohol as a way to kill time and try to work on my people skills... If the worst happens, I don't want to become that sad lonely divorced guy who just drinks his life away.

Anyway. Looking forward to seeing her later this evening. Gonna give her a massive hug if she'll let me, look into her eyes and tell her how much I missed her and still love her and try to show her that I've changed for the better because I have really listened to her and heard her over the past few months.

If that's not enough than I guess nothing will be

iniscealtra

Fair play. Cutting out the drinking will improve your life. Find some hobbies as well that don’t relvolve around the pub. Get active and happy.

marilynrr

@Despondent

As someone who has been in relationships where the other person was desperate to make it work, I could feel the pressure coming from that post and sense the excited hopefulness and you checking for signs about whether she'd changed her mind on a daily basis, that's what the daily messages would have likely felt like to her.

Anyway. Looking forward to seeing her later this evening. Gonna give her a massive hug if she'll let me, look into her eyes and tell her how much I missed her and still love her and try to show her that I've changed for the better because I have really listened to her and heard her over the past few months.

If that's not enough than I guess nothing will be

You might need to lower your expectations about what a week can do, especially if she felt pressured the whole time.

It's great you stayed off the drink and I agree with the last poster about finding some new hobbies, don't panic if your wife doesn't meet you at the bus stop or if nothing seems to have changed when you're back. Just try to adjust your focus a bit for now if possible, easier said than done I know!

ChickenDish

Sounds like your doing everything right. Your not pushing her to make a choice, you have binned alcohol & your giving her space. Cant expect to undo years of acting the maggot behind you in a short period of time. What you can do is exactly what your doing, put in the effort, show her she is the sole focus of your attentions. Admit your mistakes and keep telling her that she is why you get out of bed in the mornings.

Your a lot more likely to come back from the brink playing the long game. It will be worth it if it works out, but there is never any guarantee's. That said, you yourself have admitted there is a slight change in her behaviour. Gonna take time to build up her trust again.

Squatman

congrats on turning your life around, you seem to have a very measured and mature approach to this, and I wish you well. Just be careful that you don't change yourself to the point where her misery then becomes your misery. only you will know if this happens. if you can stay off drink for ever and its what you want great, if you cant stay off it, but can control it, then its a happy medium.

Bobtheman

One thing drink does is seriously mess es with emotions. Drunks are not happy people and rationality goes out the window.

It seems she has issues too. I'm sorry I don't have time to read all the posts

If she is still drinking heavily then it's impossible to get her to reason.

The sinclair method is by far the best method

Squatman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121857371#Comment_121857371

i dont think she was mentioned as a problem drinker, more on 1 or 2 occasions ever.

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878609#Comment_121878609

There is this fallacy that you need to be constantly drinking to have a problem with drink. If you turn into a nasty person when you drink, you have a drinking problem.

Squatman

11 years married, 2 instances where wifey called out the OPS drinking problems. OP hasn't eluded to their wife having a drinking problem, but kudos for turning the tables, admirable really.

Despondent

It's been a couple of months since I got back now.

Still completely off the drink, still living at home, together. Still trying to make it work as best I can.

After I came home, we got really close to separation because she didn't want to talk about our relationship at all and was not really engaging with it until I said to her that I couldn't live like this and we'll only end up miserable and hating each other. I asked her what she thought our next steps should be and then, it seems for the first time she finally realised how difficult a separation would actually be, on the basis of treating us both equally, she would end up losing access to our kids for half the time. It was as if she had just assumed we would 'be reasonable' and that, practically, meant her keeping the kids in our family home, me leaving but her just letting me see them whenever I like.

After we talked properly about the practical consequences of divorce and how the above meant me actually losing all access to my kids and I wouldnt accept that, my wife said she'll try staying together and give us time to see if her feelings change.

That was about 2 months ago.

I tell her I love her all the time, I give her hugs, I try to always give her a kiss whenever either of us are coming or going, I buy her flowers and make plans for us to go to see live music and do things together and as a family.

I do loads of housework, I get up with the kids to bring them to school, cook, clean, shopping, laundry etc

I have been doing all of these things while also trying to give her her own space and avoid talking about the elephant in the room, which is that she still tells me that she still doesn't love me. (Whenever I say I love you, she says nothing back)

She seems like she's happier now, things are 'calm'. We never really 'fought' but as long as I can pretend everything is ok, then we get along well. We have been having sex, she says she still likes me, is still attracted to me, but she doesn't love me and doesn't know if those feelings will ever come back.

I know things take time, it's only been 5 months since this whole thing almost came crashing down (after several years of warning signs I was too stupid to fully act on) but it's very hard to live with someone who I love deeply knowing that she doesn't love me, and might never love me again, and is not committed to our marriage anymore.

Hannibal_Smith

It sounds fairly miserable on both sides. You're living with someone you feel doesn't love you and shes living with someone you say she doesn’t love, all so you both don’t lose access to the children.

Is your wife dealing with her depression? No amount of hugs, I love yous, concerts or flowers are going to fix depression unfortunately. If that is the root of her problem it needs to be dealt with.

You asked whether your marriage can be saved, and five months on and staying together may seem to you that the answer is yes, but you're both enduring the marriage rather than saving it.

Counselling is a must if you both really want to stay together because it honestly sounds like its all going to boil over sooner or later.

Squatman

it sounds like you are hoping she will get stockholm syndrome, and that you are happy to accept that. i said it before, but you are changing all the things that made ye click in the first place. you becoming a new you, will only make you miserable in the longer term. i would suggest the counselling as per others advice,

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121978256#Comment_121978256

Why on earth are you doing this to yourself?

Despondent

The reason I'm continuing with this is because there is still some hope. She asked for time.

I'm not hoping that she gets Stockholm syndrome. I have told her I will not be staying with her in a loveless marriage, but for as long as there is any hope that we can save it, I'll do everything I can to make it work. I'm open to therapy but she doesn't want to do it and there's no point in trying to convince her if she doesn't believe in it.

And this is where we find ourselves again today. We stayed up late again last night talking about our relationship.

I asked her if there is anything at all I could do to change how she feels. She told me that she cannot think of anything I'm doing wrong or could do better than what I've already been doing. She is just missing that feeling of 'love' that she used to feel for me and doesn't know how to get it back.

I told her I'm ok to keep doing everything I can to save our marriage, as long as there is hope, but if there's no hope that her feelings will change, then we'll need to accept that and begin ending it.

I asked her that one question. Should I have hope?

She's gone out now and told me she'll try to answer me later

Hannibal_Smith

I have told her I will not be staying with her in a loveless marriage, but for as long as there is any hope that we can save it, I'll do everything I can to make it work. I'm open to therapy but she doesn't want to do it and there's no point in trying to convince her if she doesn't believe in it.

You'll do everything you can, but she has to do something too. Rather than telling you there's hope she has to show how it can be realised. You haven't done anything wrong, going on what you've posted, that would explain why you feel you have to win her back. She can't give you a false hope.

Despondent

I definitely did plenty wrong, I definitely didn't do enough to make her feel loved and that got worse as I drank more heavily and became unavailable. I fully accept that I was a **** husband to her, while I never intended to hurt her, I definitely did harm to our relationship.

I thought I was ok because I was able to function and look after work and the kids and was never violent or abusive to my wife, but it was an insidious part of my life and as a result I was neglectful for enough of the time that my wife stopped loving me.

My hope is that by showing her that I have changed and she is now my biggest priority that she can overcome the damage I caused.

Andrea B.

Does your wife or you initiate the relationship discussions or is it a bit of both of you?

I believe there is hope on behalf of the individual that raises/revisits the discussion.

Despondent

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122019678#Comment_122019678

Usually it's me, but this last time it was her who brought it up.

She said she was feeling turmoil and didn't know what to do. I asked her what she meant by that, was she constantly changing her mind between feeling better about our relationship, and feeling that she needed it to end?

We spent the weekend trying to work it out, what is going on in her head. I have told her very clearly that I still love her, I want to make it work and will do whatever it takes, and she agrees that I'm doing everything she can ask me to do and that I have been trying really hard and she appreciates that.

But ultimately, in her head, the turmoil is between her leaving and breaking up our family, or her staying and living with someone she doesn't love in order to keep the family together. She is in turmoil between two bad situations, both of which she doesn't want to do. I told her that I don't think her second choice is really any option at all, because there is no way I could live with myself knowing that my wife was sacrificing her own happiness to be with me.

I asked her if there was a 3rd option, which is whether she thinks she could forgive me for what I've done and we can rekindle our marriage, so that there would be 3 possible futures, two of them, we both lose enormously, and the third where we both win.

I asked her, even if she thinks it might not happen, does she at least hope for that 3rd option?

This is when she agreed that that was a fair question and should have a simple yes or no answer, but she said she needed to go out for a while and she'd answer me later.

The question, was 'Does she at least hope, that we can both be happy together?'

Last night we had guests over until late so we couldn't talk about our future. When they left and she came to bed, I held her tight and told her I loved her and that I was afraid to ask that question again.

She asked me to not ask the question.

I whispered to her, was it because I wouldn't like the answer?

She said she still doesn't know the answer.

So I guess If someone doesn't say something is hopeless, that means there is still a hope that there might still be hope?

Or more likely, that she knows what she wants to say, but doesn't want to completely break my heart by making it final.

If she does decide to tell me for sure that she sees no hope in our marriage, and we should end it. I'm thinking the first steps should be, that I should ask her to leave and go and stay with her friend or family for a week, while I stay with the kids in the family home, then I leave and stay away for the next week, and we swap like this week by week until we can sort out somewhere more permanent. I think this would be the least disruptive for our children and give us a chance to figure out the best way to communicate to them and re-assure them that even if things will be different, that they'll be ok and we both still love them

😔

If anyone is reading this who is making the same mistakes I made when I let the alcohol take over. Please don't ignore it and hope it gets better on it's own. It's not worth losing everything over.

Sunny Disposition

It's a really tough situation. At least you did recognise the problem with drink in the end and have cut it out. Given that you have made an effort is there still no way she will agree to counselling? I think it'd be helpful, even if the relationship isn't salvageable it'd probably help ye to make a decision and to start to move on.

NiceFella

OP, have some self respect,

You need to stop this wounded puppy act because there is nothing less attractive than that. Stand up for yourself and stop dragging yourself through the mud for God sake. You've admitting to your failings, make efforts to correct them and don't bring them up again.

I'm sure your wife hasn't been perfect either. If I was making an honest effort and my wife wasn't responding I'd be telling her were to go. Personally I think if you did she'd respect you more.

You can't beg someone to love you, they need to do that on their own and tbh I can see why your partner is having trouble with that. Stand up for yourself and don't be taking all the blame.

Andrea B.

Sounds like there is hope. There hasn't been a third party, violence or emotional abuse.

You can't prolong being in the maybe zone either. It's a high anxiety place to be.

marilynrr

She said she still doesn't know the answer.

So I guess If someone doesn't say something is hopeless, that means there is still a hope that there might still be hope?

Or more likely, that she knows what she wants to say, but doesn't want to completely break my heart by making it final

Unfortunately yes it's far more likely to be the second option, she keeps trying to tell you and as @nicefella put it you're doing the wounded puppy act. I've been in your wifes position and it's torture to pluck up the courage to try to share your feelings knowing your partner feels the way you feel and then be asked for another chance or if there's a chance the feelings could come back etc. It literally feels like you are kicking a puppy.

If you want the tiniest bit of hope then you need to stop what you're doing and start to prepare for a life without her, get yourself to counselling to work through your feelings and see if you can get yourself to a place where you know you will be ok after a split. Take up a new hobby and meet new people.

If anything has a chance of working with your wife it will be showing that you're preparing to be without her if it comes to that. You don't have to stop being nice to her and showing her you love her but you need to back way off and start focusing on yourself. There's zero chance of her falling back in love with you with all that pressure on her and when it looks like you're checking with her every day to see if she has yet.

Either way whether it has a positive effect on your wife or not, it should hopefully benefit you.

Mongfinder General

Look up Rich Cooper on YouTube. Stand up for yourself. There are red flags in her behaviour. In vino, veritas.

Kurooi

I would have two observations, about the alcohol.

First, are you skipping over some details or events? you have beer or wine, you got drunk at weddings, months apart, fell asleep on a sofa. That's not a big deal. Not marriage breaking events. Honestly that in itself sounds very innocent. How often were you drunk at the peak of it? How many times in a month?

I'm not encouraging you to go back, by all means pursue a healthier lifestyle and mind - but are you (both) perhaps exaggerating the effect this had on your marriage?

Second, are you the one with the alcohol problem? It sounds like every bad night for you started with the wife getting drunk. Are there more issues there than on the surface, other motivations or state of mind she is in, and you're getting the blame and get saddled with the family. I'm going to second NiceFella above in saying that it's not attractive or productive to take the blame and act the victim. Is she being fair, are you going too hard on yourself? Is there a time and a place to hold your ground and actually let her know that her actions are unjustified. Is there anything else that needs to be addressed for the relationship to work, and specifically, on her side this time? There are two people in a relationship.

Alexus25

2 words - couples counselling