Can I save my marriage?

Despondent

I'm a long time poster on here but registered a new account for this. Apologies about the length of this post.

Basically, I'm a 40 year old man, been married to my beautiful wife for almost 11 years, but we've actually been together in a committed relationship for 18 years.

We have 3 children, oldest is 14, youngest is 10 and we own a house together.

I have never ever been unfaithful to her, and I don't for a moment think that she has been unfaithful to me.

In all of our time together we have never been disrespectful or abusive towards each other, physically or verbally and as far as our kids are concerned we're in a completely settled and stable and loving relationship.

Since we began our family, having 3 children close together on a (low) single income while the kids were very small we didn't have a lot but we did our best, took loads of family holidays in Ireland, camping in our tent, later in a caravan, tried to get away together as a couple but this was difficult to do as often as we liked due to money and child rearing...

I had always liked a few drinks, mostly at the weekend, and usually our social and family activities involved drink in some way but I never missed any work, never got to the point where I was abusive or drinking all day and being drunk all the time, it was mainly only in the evenings after work when the kids went to bed that I'd have a glass of wine or some beer while watching a movie or some sport or whatever.

Things had been a little bit difficult over the past couple of years, we work together from home since Covid and I began to drink a bit too much, the couple of glasses became a bottle and I began to drink a bit earlier at the weekends too.

We went on a weekend away to Bulgaria in the January after the COVID lockdowns were over and were having a really nice time until the last night in Sofia, when we were out together, and she got very drunk and didn't want to go back to the hotel with me. I convinced her to get in a taxi and gave her all my money and gave the taxi driver the address of the hotel so she could get back to the hotel safely, but she refused to let me in the car with her, and then I walked back to the hotel in the snow. (somehow I found the place a few hours later) and made my way to our room and found her asleep on the toilet. I tried to lift her into the bed and she started telling me she hated me and wanted to leave... The next day, she couldn't remember anything about what had happened and said she didn't mean those things and we went home I left it at that.

Over the next year my wife began to withdraw and had some mental health issues which lasted for a few months last year. She missed a bit of work, she said it was due to her back but she was quite depressed and spent a lot of time in our room on her own. We both knew that things were not going great but I put it down to circumstances, and agreed that I was drinking too much and that I should cut down. My wife has never been a regular drinker, she will drink on nights out and occasions but not when we were just at home together.

Around about June last year, I stopped drinking for a month, didn't even tell my wife, I just wanted to see if I could do it and I didn't find it that hard.

Then we went to a wedding where the usual wedding amounts of alcohol were consumed. A lot, but not crazy amounts. That night, my wife, while she was drunk, told me she wasn't happy in our marriage and that she wanted to leave. I was shocked. We talked a lot that night, and it seemed that by the morning she had agreed to keep trying. I mostly stayed off the drink for another few months until another wedding when basically the same thing happened again, after she had a lot to drink, and I had been drinking too. In the period between the 1st wedding and the 2nd wedding, our relationship had seemed to have gotten much better. we were making more time for each other, we were being a lot more intimate with each other and I thought things were way better.

Because I had been controlling my drinking so well over the past few months, I got a little bit complacent, and one day, when there was a family event on, which included a sports match where I had a few drinks with my brother, after it was over, my wife dropped me home and went away with the kids to her mothers house. I must have had a few more because when she came home I was asleep on the couch and she had to tell me to go up to bed.

I came down after a while to ask her if she was coming to bed but she didn't come up and told me to go back to sleep. When she came up later she basically told me she wanted to end the marriage and that she wanted me to leave the house the next day. I begged her to reconsider and after some tears she said that we would talk about it again the next day.

Needless to say, I got absolutely no sleep that night, the next day we muddled through the daily routines, when the kids went to bed, we sat down, both of us sober and she said she had made up her mind and wanted to end the marriage.

The reason she gave was that during the past few years, due to my drinking, she had felt alone a lot of the time and that even though I never intended to hurt her, or did anything knowingly cruel, that she felt that she had been hurt by my emotional distance and no longer wanted to be with me.

We talked for hours, she kept saying that she had made up her mind and that she didn't want to hurt me, or our kids, but that she had made her decision.

Eventually, after a lot of talking, I listened to everything she had to say, I accepted that I had made loads of mistakes and I accepted that she should never feel lonely or isolated. I told her that I would never drink again, that I clearly couldn't control it and I valued our relationship way more than alcohol. (She asked me what took me so long to come to this conclusion, and she has a point, I was a complete idiot for so long)

I felt, and she agreed, that over the past few months, things had been improving and that we had been closer and that we should at least try one more time to make it work. I wanted the chance to show her that we could get back what we used to have, to take her places that I knew she loved and that we could do more things together again, now that the kids are a bit bigger. I said that me no longer drinking meant that we could do more things more often. She agreed to give it more time, but said that she was not happy and felt that I wasn't respecting her decision.

I booked tickets to go and see one of her favourite bands who happened to be playing in the next city over the week after. I drove us there, she had some alcohol, we had a really nice time until it got late and she had too many drinks and started going over all the things she didn't like about our relationship...

It was disheartening but I took it as a good start as at least the start of the night was fun, and I knew she was still unsure about giving us another chance after she had made up her mind... I wanted to do more nights out away before the Christmas but one of the concerts got cancelled at the last minute, she didn't want to go to another one, then at the start of December her brother came over for Christmas after having spent the past few years abroad. She wanted to spend time with him so of course there was never any question about me trying to get in the way of that, she spent a lot of time over Christmas with her family. I was there for lots of it, but spent many nights at home minding the kids while she was out. I knew that it would take time and I wanted to give her space and for her to have a nice break.

Since the start of November. I have not had a single drop to drink. We had a nice Christmas, spent loads of time together, were sexually intimate, made an effort and apart from my own anxiety about the future of our relationship, I thought things were going well.

Anyway, Christmas is over, we took the tree down this weekend. On Sunday, I thought it was time to ask her how she felt things had been going.

She told me she still hasn't really changed her mind. She feels she still doesn't feel love for me in the way that she used to.

My heart is broken. I asked her what does this mean, we had another long talk, she doesn't know what she wants to do. I want to keep trying.

We ended our talk by her telling us to go to bed, work in the morning and we can talk about it again another time.

I went to bed, she said she'd be up in a few minutes.

Almost an hour later she came up and she snuggled up to me and initiated sex.

I don't know what to do

I have done everything I can think of, I can't change the things I have done wrong in the past. I'm willing to keep trying for as long as it takes. But am I just wasting everyone's time?

Does anyone have any advice please?

Calahonda52

Whatever you do, do not move out of the house.

amdublin

I think it really sounds like you are/have both tried very hard. And the broad basis of a good relationship is there. Would you try counselling together? I really would recommend that

victor8600

It could that your wife might be having a mid life crisis, or a nervous breakdown, or some other mental issue that require her to take time, re-evaluate things and possibly get professional help. If this is the case, she needs to deal with it first. Or I might be wrong and a bit of family counselling is enough.

Real Donald Trump

Both of ye should try to give up the drink to see if it improves your relationship, even just for a short while, and hopefully that will make a difference OP. All the best

YellowLead

Fair play for being so honest OP. I do think however that your wife might need to look at her drinking too. Sometimes people think that you have to drink every day to have a problem - but if you’re drinking to the point of not remembering stuff the next day or having outbursts - that’s problematic drinking too.

It’s great that you’ve both tried and tried to talk things through. I do think the next stage is couples therapy because you seem to be stuck in a loop and getting nowhere.

TheadoreT

Obviously only hearing your side of events but she seems the one who has the bigger drink problem going by how it alters her personality.

You're waaaay too acceptent of her behaviour and overly critical of your own in my opinion. How is she meant to respect you if you're just going to let her treat you like a doormat and you keep coming back basically begging her for chances. She treated you like crap in Bulgaria but you decided to "leave it", let it fester and bury your head in the sand, rather than tackle the issue head on.

It's not your drinking that's caused this(not excusing excessive drinking btw), it's the imbalanced relationship dynamic that's made her fall out of love.

Rows Grower

Drink just doesn't suit some people, tell her she needs to pack it up.

baldbear

Sounds like depression is the route of the problem. Factor in the booze and it gets worse.

"She feels she still doesn't feel love for me in the way that she used to." Is this not normal the more you are with someone? Especially when kids are in the mix. The feeling of love changes. Life is tough,marriage can be tough. But it's still good? And loving?

Maybe her expectations are wrong. Maybe I'm wrong.

Furze99

40, time is slipping by - maybe a bit of early menopause, drink, work from home. Relationships and roles change as children, parents and couple age etc.

Keep doing what you're doing, stay off the drink and encourage her likewise. Unlikely to be able to get back to the days of the early family trips as the kids expectations change etc. But do stuff like that. Stay off the drink and go with the flow, you've both likely got far more to lose by breaking up than staying together and let time work things out. Good luck and wish you the best.

Breezy_

(She asked me what took me so long to come to this conclusion, and she has a point, I was a complete idiot for so long)

<<Mod snip>>

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Replies are expected to be mature, civil and well phrased. Remember you are speaking to a real person who has posted a problem that is impacting them.

I wonder what went through her head for the hour it took for her to come upstairs...initiating sex is her willing to try or just to please you? Dunno. Will go with willing to try.

Drink again and kiss her goodbye. She obviously shouldn't be drinking either.

Go work in one of them hubs so you're not together in the house all the time? Even just 2 days a week. Give her a bit of space. And you.

Get the kids away from her for abit aswell. Can they swim? Any squash courts around?

https://connectedhubs.ie/

It doesn't have to be concerts and holidays...

https://www.coillte.ie/our-forests/recreation-map/

Try go to a few of them. For at least 45mins.

I'm just looking at this as she's pure pissed off and she doesn't want to wear the mask anymore. Thats salvagable. A real counsellor as mentioned above might be an idea. Look them up. Half of them are fake. But she fairly laid her thoughts out already.

She midlife now. GP visit get the bloods done/checkup.

Put in the effort. She'll see it. See what happens.

Make a new normal.

reclose

Definitely try to go to a counsellor.

We only hear one side of the story here about your drinking over the years and the impact that may have had.

Sometimes people just fall out of love and that’s especially **** when you’ve children and a mortgage.

marilynrr

I had always liked a few drinks, mostly at the weekend, and usually our social and family activities involved drink in some way but I never missed any work, never got to the point where I was abusive or drinking all day and being drunk all the time, it was mainly only in the evenings after work when the kids went to bed that I'd have a glass of wine or some beer while watching a movie or some sport or whatever.

Was there no problematic behaviour due to the drinking at the time? or any time? Had she expressed any concern or upset about it over the years?

Things had been a little bit difficult over the past couple of years, we work together from home since Covid

Do you still work from home together? Could this be a part of it? that you don't get much space from each other?

Over the next year my wife began to withdraw and had some mental health issues which lasted for a few months last year. She missed a bit of work, she said it was due to her back but she was quite depressed and spent a lot of time in our room on her own. 

Are you sure she's recovered? Sometimes mental health issues can change or present differently in a person.

Despondent

Thanks to all of you for your replies. I'm willing to try counselling if she'll agree.

I'm still trying to encourage her to make some plans together in the short term. She doesn't want to agree to anything right now, but she doesn't want to say out loud that the reason is that I'm not in her plans.

If she won't consider making any plans for us together, I'm going to have to start asking her what her plans are for us living apart. I don't even want to start thinking about that right now. Maybe I'm in denial but I still think we have a chance

TheadoreT

You're acting like a desperate lost puppy OP, waiting for your mammy to find you and tell you everything will be OK.

Stop the relationship obsessing when someone isn't reciprocating. You only ever drive them further away like that. Inaction is by far the best action to take when someone is pulling away. Focus on your kids and your health/hobbies and be more of a consistent leader.

Stay in your house, let her be the one who suggests fixing/counselling or alternative plans for future.

Despondent

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121595127#Comment_121595127

Maybe I am.

I don't want to be a pathetic person who tries to use pity to manipulate others

I don't intend to just move out of the house and just let her have it, but I don't want to help create a toxic environment for the kids either, especially when I still deeply love her and hope to fix this.

I've been lying awake all night, going through my options.

What I really want is a commitment from her to give the marriage a proper go without a sword hanging over my head. If she doesn't want that. I think I'm going to take a few weeks off work, and just go somewhere far away. Let her have complete freedom from me for 2 or 3 weeks. She can tell the kids I'm travelling for work or some other excuse. Let her see if life is really better on her own without me, and when I come back, we can either begin counselling or begin splitting up our assets and working out custody 😔

I am very tired right now. Maybe this is a terrible idea

carfinder

Perhaps she needs to understand the consequences of her decision. Lots of replies have advised not to move out of the house and I would agree with that.

Does your wife have a personal email address? If so, maybe start replying to her verbal comments by email - in much the same way as you would in a work situation so that she will need to dispute the accuracy of what's in your email or it becomes a useful record for you if the split proceeds formally.

You need to not be afraid of the split - prepare for it and make it clear that your plans, post split, involve staying in the house you've paid for. Also take an assertive stance regarding future custody of the kids. Project a strong confident position instead of desperately trying to get her to change her mind - she could well be feeding off your anxiety

Goodigal

To be honest, you travelling for a few weeks will probably annoy her because she'll have to do everything on her own and the resentment might build towards you ie you're off having the time of your life, while I'm doing school run plus kids activities plus work. Just so you can find some answers! That's not complete freedom from you, that's putting everything on her at a time you're both very vulnerable.

Having read what you wrote, she said out loud what she's been feeling. And it was brave of her. But I do think if you find a good couples counsellor, this might be salvageable. Couples do fall out of love. It takes work to get it back.

Wish you luck.

Water John

Not from the Mid West sorry, so can't advise on that. A few sessions with a counsellor is the first item on the agenda. Let those dictate whatever route both of you end up taking. On your own, both of you are only poking around in the dark. Neither of you have an objective eye.

RoboRat

My 2 cents for what it's worth. If you cede on everything, then it'll fail. Relationships need work and if only one party is working for it, the other will take it for granted and get bored.

I had a relationship like this once, I was mad about her and was always pandering to her needs. She got bored, we split, about a year later she tried to get back in touch, but I had moved on.

Some women see relationships as Hollywood portrays them, this is entirely superficial and false. Relationships change, people change and if someone isn't willing to change, then it's a problem.

You've made mistakes, owned up and made changes. That's admirable and the way a relationship works. The past can't be changed and when someone says they'll give it another chance, they need to park the past. It should only be brought back up if the promise of change was empty.

Perhaps you need to look into why you drank so much and were distant with her? If you look closely, you may find faults on her side too. Has she acknowledged any faults or wrongdoing? If not, then she's not being honest. Nobody is perfect.

I'm with my wife 20 years and things have changed a lot, but I know I have changed, and my wife knows she has too. I acknowledge my faults as she does hers. We then talk and decide how best to move on. We both want this to work, so we both put the effort in. We argue, we sulk but we also talk and laugh a lot more - we both know that we have each others back and that everything is secondary to raising the kids.

How this helps and good luck.

HildaOgdenx

Mod - OP - Please note that as per the sticky at the top of the forum, PMs are expressly against the PI Charter.

Please see attached link, it's a very useful guide towards finding the appropriate help.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057956018/how-to-find-help-a-counsellor-therapist-psychologist

All the best.

Hilda

marilynrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121595129#Comment_121595129

It sounds like she has been giving it a proper go though, or at least as good a go as is possible for her at this moment in time due to whatever is going on in her head. I don't think it's really possible for to give you that commitment without the sword hanging over your head, that's essentially asking her to change her feelings and emotions on this which she obviously hasn't been able to do yet.

Agree with a previous poster that taking off for 2-3 weeks could piss her off rather than make her miss you and want you...you said you don't like to manipulate others, but taking off and leaving the mother to do it all by herself does come across as pretty manipulative, whether that's intended or not. I've known a few men who did similar when their partners wanted to split up, they just go AWOL leaving her in the lurch so she can see how difficult life is without him!

I don't disagree with the idea of taking time apart though but just be careful how you approach it.

spaceHopper

In all of your text the only problem I see in your drinking is that your fell asleep on a couch once. I've done that sober. I'm not saying you don't have a problem with drinking to much. Could it be you drink at home when you are bored, we've all been through a lock down and all developed bad habits. Either way I'd stay off it until you've resolved things.

Your wife on the other hand doesn't know her limits and has become hostile when drunk two or 3 times. That to me is much bigger problem and she's putting all the blame on you. She also took to her room and withdrew from you too - does she own that? 

Don't let her gas light you into thinking this is all your fault. Also it's your home too, if you do seperate she's going to go have to accept that you will have to live somewhere either your joint income funds two houses or you don't move out. She has no right to expect you to move out. You could just as easily say she's the one who should leave after all she is the one who wants to end it and she got aggressive/hostile with you in Bulgaria not the other way around. Ask her how she sees a separation working, where will she live, where will you live and how will you share the kids. How will you divide the assets. She will soon realise that her standard of living, yours and that of the kids will drop significantly. 

Basically I'm laying the ground rules for any separation - a new reality.

Now if she wants to work on it then counseling for you, for her and for both of you is the best way forward. But you both need to own your own faults and stop putting all the blame on you.

Not matter what you need to start saving some money so that if the worst happens you have a buffer to tide you over. 

TheadoreT

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121595129#Comment_121595129

You say you don't want to be manipulative then go on to suggest a manipulative act. The holiday is a terrible idea, I assume your kids would prefer you take them somewhere this year than you wasting your allocation sitting somewhere wallowing about your wife.

The fact she still initiates sex from time to time I'd suggest you still have a glimmer of hope. But you're doing your best to tarnish that. Stop this illusion of action and thinking you need to fix things, she wants to leave, she needs to fix it, you'll never convince her if it's not her idea, only further push her like you're doing now. You could slowly win her back by not acting so needy and relationship focused, and standing up for yourself.

Despondent

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121596312#Comment_121596312

I never intended this to mean that I would unilaterally leave, and leave her with all the family duties, only that I could offer to go for a week or two to give her space and rather than being some kind of punishment, it would be a chance for her to see if she really would be better off without me before she makes a permanent long term decision and brings the kids into it.

I have offered her this morning 4 options for what we can do immediately to try to save the marriage.

1 Arrange Counselling

2. Continue to give it more time as we've been doing

3. I leave for a week or two and give her some breathing space with the kids

4. She leaves for a week or two and I stay with the kids

I have asked her to add any suggestions she has to the list or if she doesn't like any of them to let me know what she wants us to do next.

I've encouraged her to speak to her own family and friends and to take advice from the people she trusts.

This is really hard. We still get on really well, we've been talking about this all morning.

Dial Hard

No.2 isn't an option, you've tried that repeatedly and it hasn't worked. 3 and 4 are just different sides of the same stop-gap coin, they're not solutions either. Your (plural) marriage is not salvageable without professional help, OP, it really is as simple as that. There are three potential outcomes here:

1. You (plural) get counselling and save your marriage.

2. You (plural) get counselling but still can't make it work and separate.

3. You (plural) don't get counselling and separate, whether sooner or later. But with millions of unanswered questions.

For what it's worth, it absolutely sounds to me like this is still salvageable - IF she engages authentically with the process. It sounds very much to me like drinking triggers depressive episodes for her and she engages in "blow everything up" thought processes when that happens. Some people react to existential questioning by wanting to throw a lit match over their shoulder as they walk away from everything. But that's "in the moment" and when they snap out of it, they feel very differently. But they still need to deal with those behaviours.

marilynrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121596417#Comment_121596417

That's great that you've given her a choice. I think just one thing you need to bear in mind is that these things might not be effective if done immediately, people need to be in the right frame of mind for things like that and they can't just put themselves in the right frame of mind to deal with issues and work out what they want because the other person asks them to. I understand that it not being dealt with immediately is mental torture for you and I'm not telling you to wait for her to be ready either, just that unfortunately that is the reality of these situations. You might have to make a decision for yourself rather than wait around for her to tell you.

Could you clarify if there was any problematic drinking related behaviour at all? or if the frequency of it was the only problem?

I'd echo what @Dial Hard said about some people reacting to existential questioning by wanting to throw a lit match over their shoulder and walk away, a few have suggested that it's related to alcohol, but it's possibly due to being peri-menopausal too. I've seen quite a few women post on other forums about how they just want to walk away from a marriage with a good man when they were peri.

Would your wife be open to going to the doctors to get her hormones checked? although I'm not at that stage yet so I'm not sure how seriously doctors take that or how robust the tests are or if the standard blood tests give the answers.

Or do you think she might prefer individual counselling as opposed to couples counselling? She has said it now a few times that she wants to end the marriage but then does put effort in and tries to be intimate etc, so she is either confused herself, or else she feels terrible when she sees how devastated you are and won't stick to her guns because she doesn't want to upset you more....which is dragging it all out anyway.

bucketybuck

I must be reading a different OP to some others. All I see is that she has told her husband multiple times over many months that she feels it is over and he simply isn't listening. That his response to "its over" is to go and arrange concerts and nights out. The whole drink thing seems like a red herring to me.

She is saying that she isn't happy, and I'd bet its only the kids and 18 years of history that are stopping her from just walking away.

Is it not a bit patronising that when somebody says she wants out, to tell them they might have a hormone problem and don't actually know what they want or whats good for them...

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121596417#Comment_121596417

You likely need to also consider that she may have a hankering after someone else and is weighing up the pros and cons. That these issues have arisen when drunk is one thing but it's noteworthy that they still occupy her mind when she's stone cold sober and you're discussing matters openly. Your options 1 & 2 are best, 3 & 4 are just variations, plus of course if she has some other idea. You're right to encourage her to talk to her own friends and family, though she might fear them judgemental. As above, it's quite recoverable if you both want it.

marilynrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121598595#Comment_121598595

Yes of course it could be patronising. I had a friend who was absolutely certain she wanted to leave her husband and he was trying to make out she'd gone mad and was trying to arrange a doctor house call, but she wasn't wishy washy at all and was clear that the marriage was over in her eyes, she hated him for making out she was mad and not just listening to her. So yes it can be very patronising, but then there are some women who say that being peri-menopausal made them want to throw their whole life away so it is a consideration.

She has said multiple times she wanted out but then seems to go back on it, which isn't uncommon when people genuinely do want to end it but then they feel guilty because of their partners devastation. So yes it looks like he's not listening but if it's a clear case of her wanting to end the relationship she's not actually doing anything about that herself beyond the initial statement, she's saying she wants to end the marriage and by the sounds of it she's expecting him to just leave. She's saying she wants it to be over but not saying what is going to happen next, so I can see why he's not listening also because it's a common response to this situation.

OP when she says she wants to end the marriage has she put forward any plan? or is she just leaving that all to you to plan?

reclose

OP, what effort is your wife making to improve things?