Can I save my marriage?
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Thanks to everyone for your comments and advice. I have read them all and appreciate all of your time and support.
I don't want to go into too much detail in all of this as it's obviously a really intimate and personal matter between my family and I, but I have gotten some really useful advice already
Its been a really difficult few days on top of a really difficult few months on top of years worth of mistakes and regrets
I still see a glimmer of love in her eyes at times. She said she still likes me, which is good.
She has still not put forward any of her own options for what we need to do, or taken any of my options off the table. I'm just going to try my best to give her space and to be there if she wants me, and show her that she will never have to worry about loneliness in our relationship ever again.
As long as she is still reluctant to take steps to formally end the marriage, i can only take that as a sign that there is still something worth fighting for and I am making it my mission to be the person today that she would want to imagine spending the next 18 years with. If I can do that, then maybe she will forgive the past
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Is there very much to forgive though? Maybe there are things involving your drinking that were serious?
If not, I’d say don’t argue with her next time she says she wants to split up. Leave it up her to make suggestions if you want and def don’t move out.
But you can’t keep trying to adjust, if you’ve done that and it’s not enough there’s nowhere else to go. She may not love you any more, and if you keep trying to bend over backwards that won’t change. It just won’t, no one can respect that.
This is hard for you, but I think you’ve done your best. If it’s not enough, that’s the end of the line.
I suspect your wife will find it harder than she thinks.
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The way you have described your drinking seems grand , but she sees you as an alcoholic. Something doesn’t really add up. All the best anyway , hope it does work out.
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"The way you have described your drinking seems grand"
Absenting yourself from your marriage with drink isn't that grand.
OP, as said by others, you both could badly do with some counselling, and find out what's really going on in each of you in that marriage.
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OP, I have to agree with @bucketybuck. Regular posters here will be very aware of my background with a heavy drinking husband.
People seem to be very dismissive of your wife and the huge thing she has told you. In general people don't announce they want to leave their marriage on a whim. You admit you went through a phase of drinking too much. Anyone who has a problem with drink tends to minimise exactly how much they are drinking, and how much their drinking affects others. You chose drinking over your marriage. You chose drinking over being "present" and attentive to your relationship with your wife. Your drinking also wasn't in isolation. There would have been behaviours, attitudes present that have worn your wife down.
A previous poster said that by trying to be nice and trying to do everything to win your wife back it is causing her to lose respect for you. This is nonsense. The respect was lost long before she ever told you that she wanted to split up.
Marriage is difficult. Children, bills, responsibilities, differences etc it can all add up and it takes a very strong relationship to make it through unscathed. 2 people in a marriage need to be equals. 2 people need to respect each other and treat each other with respect. No playing games. This "treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen" attitude might work for teenagers. In long-term committed relationships and marriages it is nonsense, You should appreciate your wife. You should show your wife that you appreciate her. You should respect her. If you know that your actions have caused your wife hurt, of course you should try to make amends. Of course you should try whatever it takes to save your marriage before you both walk away for good.
Living with problems caused by drinking is complicated. Your wife needs to attend counselling for herself. To build her own self worth back up. You could suggest she attends Al-Anon to see if anything she hears there is relevant to her. I think individual counselling for you both would be beneficial. And then maybe marriage counselling together. It may not make a difference. If anything it might cement her decision and make he realise that she would be better off in the long-term separating.
Your wife is confused. She's had enough. But at the same time she married you, "for better or worse". She built a life with you. She built a family with you. So she's not completely ready to walk away... Yet. This is why she is giving conflicting messages. She knows this relationship isn't good anymore, but she still holds out a bit of hope that it could be salvaged. This is why she needs to be encouraged to explore everything through counselling. If you want to save your marriage, be patient. Encourage your wife to get the help and support she needs. The fact that she hasn't taken steps towards separating yet, means there's still a bit of hope. But it will take a very big effort on both your parts. What you've been doing up to now hasn't been working. So you both need to try something different.
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Thanks for this message. I agree. My drinking was a problem and I fully accept that she has been harmed by my absence and selfishness over that time. I never was abusive but I did harm her in the ways you described and am truly sorry.
I'm still hoping we can fix this. She is reluctant to go to a counsellor, either on her own, or as a couple. She still hasn't spoken to her friends or family about her decision. My family know because I've spoken to them, but as far as I know she still hasn't talked to her own mother or friends or brothers who she is all really close with. So far, she's been working through it all in her own mind and that must be exhausting for her
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I'm really rooting for you op, you said on the way to the concert that she mentioned things about the relationship she didn't like, what were they?
Then you also said she was suffering from her mental health, have you any ideas what caused it?
You seem to have it as drink related but you've been drinking for the whole 18 years of the relationship, seems strange that it has all of a sudden become a relationship ending problem.
Just from what you wrote it sounds like she's having a mid life crisis or some from of menopause. It looks like you're trying everything and she doesn't care. (albeit this is just one side of the story).
Time to put the ball in her court. Tell her you support her if she wants a break or still wants the separation, but you're not going to move out of the house.
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It sounds to me like you’re both very good people - individually and together as a couple - trying to manage and sort through your past and your present day feelings.
How is her life at work? Does she like her job? Is she at home a lot? Are you?
Drink is a curse if used as a crutch to help you through life or bury troubles. Takes you away from the person you need to share your troubles with. I guess she’s doing similar to what you did for so long. I hope you’re able to quit drink for good now?
Pity she won’t go for counselling, but that said, you need to pick your counsellor carefully. Not all are of the same ilk, some being quite poor.
I would try to forget you’re in a marriage and start treating each other as individuals. Get to know her again, ask her stuff that’s separate from the relationship and the kids. What were her hopes & dreams as a younger woman? Become friends, share some new activities and value her thoughts & feelings about the trivial fun stuff.. help her to value herself again. Don’t keep rehashing issues in the relationship - it’s habit forming and the more you talk about it, the more it takes a pounding and cements the negative stuff.
And the more you worry and stress about it, the heavier it gets. Lighten the load. Treat yourself kindly OP, give yourself a break from rehashing stuff in your mind and be good to yourself. That will help you both enormously.
And don’t forget to value yourself too, as an individual. Not as a husband or a father.
Good luck OP - you're good people and lucky to have each other, I reckon.
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I hope that I never have to experience the issue being discussed here. It is hard to interject here as we are only getting one side of the story and , along with that, we are only getting the OP’s interpretation of his actions or lack of same. Maybe his wife would see things in a totally different way
in Trying to change things and being seen to do so if the husband took over / helped out the wife in some of the daily/ weekly chores , such as :-
setting the fire
leaving out the bins and bringing them in
making the breakfast
hanging out the clothes and watching for rain
do some of the shopping- as an individual or together
making the beds
hoovering
take over being responsibility for paying bills
etc, etc, etc.
I am , of course, assuming that the wife is doing all these things. But if some or most of these things are taken on and in a continuous way the wife may not show her appreciation immediately but she may do so later on. At least she will see a significant change in a very practical way and the husband will also realise how much work his has been doing and how hard , boring and intense it is. He , as a result , will come to appreciate his wife even more
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I sincerely hope that the above is of some help. I am sharing this from experience
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You seem to have it as drink related but you've been drinking for the whole 18 years of the relationship, seems strange that it has all of a sudden become a relationship ending problem.
It's not strange at all. People can cope for so long. They can pretend they're ok. They can put on a face for everyone outside the family. But that wears a person down until they realise they just can't keep doing it. People who have never had a problem drinker in their life can't possibly understand the impact it has.
@Despondent give her time. Give yourself time. Ending a marriage is a very big ordeal. As I said it's not something somebody does out of nowhere. She hasn't told her family yet because she's not 100% certain she's making the right decision. I never spoke to my family about my husband's drinking and the problems it was causing me. Never. Until the night I walked out with 4 children and I rang my sister for somewhere to stay. I was 20 years with my husband at that point. He had been drinking for all those 20 years. And it all of a sudden became a marriage ending problem. I didn't wake up that morning planning to leave my husband. But by that night I knew I couldn't take anymore. Like you there was never any physical abuse, not even close.
I think @Mr.Wemmick above has given some good, practical advice. You sound like a genuine person. Your wife sounds like an upset, angry, confused person. Her feelings are completely understandable. Her actions are completely understandable. Her mind is a mess. She's not ready yet to start tackling it. She's not ready to talk to a counsellor (it took me very many more years than it should have for me to realise that I needed to see someone!) She's not ready to talk to her friends or family. (It took me years to admit to anyone what was happening).
There's a shame that comes with drink problems and relationship problems. Most people want to pretend that everything in their home is perfect. And it's something that once it's out there, it's impossible to take back. She also has a loyalty to you. Her husband. She loves/loved you. You're the father of her children. She doesn't want people thinking badly of you. Family can be a great support, but they're also loyal to their own. She knows if she tells her family what has been going on that their opinion of you will change. And they will want to support her. Which might mean pressuring her to end the relationship. She's not ready for that yet. She needs to work this out for herself, without the interference of well meaning family.
Heavy drinking is rarely a secret! People know. But those who are affected the closest live in denial for a long time. Pretending everything is fine. Your wife has let you know she's at breaking point. But she hasn't broken just yet. Listen to that. Listen to what she needs. Support her, but don't assume you know what's best for her. She will come to her own decisions when she is ready. She may eventually contact a counsellor. She may start attending Al-Anon meetings. She may just work through it herself and hope that she can work with you to save your marriage. She's confused and hurt. Don't underestimate that. She'll be ok. But this will be a very difficult time for your relationship.
As Mr Wemmick above says, I think your marriage has a chance at being saved. You both sound like good people and there's still love there between you. I genuinely hope you can work it out. Couples do survive things like this. But it takes a change and huge effort, on everyone's part.
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whatever you did in the past, her behaviour is not right, it's actually very wrong and it's nothing but leaving you in complete limbo and messing around with your head. She's a grown up woman, married with kids, she needs to communicate properly with you. drinking, telling you she wants to split up, the next minute initiating sex. Or telling you out of the blue she wants to seperate and you leaving the house the next day. wtf, this is crazy ! Reading this I'm actually concerned about the mental wellbeing of your kids. How's her behaviour with them ? Can't imagine it hasn't left some marks on them already. Horrible actually.
Wouldn't there be the kids, I'm of a different opinion than most here about your idea of going on holidays for 3 weeks at least. I actually think it's a very good idea in this case. Physical distance/not having the other person around to annoy you/her to figure out what to do. As said, she's messing with your head, I wouldn't be able to figure things out being togehter with this person in a house all the time. Yes, she will be alone with the kids and it will depend on how she's behaving towards them. If it's bad, you can't leave them alone. But if she's still great with them, why not doing it. And its true she will have to care for them a lot of the time on her own if the seperation will happen as I guess she will get custody of the kids. Only you saying 'let her tell the kids what she wants'(about your holiday) leaves some doubts about your own abilities of responsibility. Sit together with her (if that's possible) and agree on whats best to tell the kids.
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I think some people are projecting their own struggles onto the OP here. There's a big difference in actually having a problematic relationship with alcohol and what the OP has described here. Obviously we're only hearing your side of things but don't let yourself be gaslit by your wife or other people who've experienced far worse relationship experiences with alcohol. People often heighten a certain issue as a reason to break up as the actual truth would be more hurtful.
It's never a case of juvenile "treat them mean keep them keen" but your lack of respect or confidence in yourself and asserting relationship boundaries is by far the biggest issue here and why she in turn she lost respect. Stop bending over backwards to fix things and focus on building yourself back up to someone who could garner respect from others.
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The problem in my opinion with your post is this is not how the OP described his drinking. We don’t have her side of the story, you are just presuming it from your own story.
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True. But if his wife has mentioned drinking as the issue, and the OP by his own admission says he drank too much and was "absent and selfish" then we have to take it at face value that it was a bit more than a few cans a couple of times a week.
OP, you asked specifically if you can save your marriage. Posters in this forum often like to go straight to "end it" as the advice. But when you are dealing with history, marriage, children, emotions it's not usually that easy. People advising here just have words on a screen. You have the lived experience, and from what I can tell you don't want your relationship to end. I can offer a small bit of insight from your wife's point of view. The one thing I have learnt in Al-Anon is we all come from very different backgrounds, very different relationships, wide range of ages, but we all "get" what the other person is talking about. Because even though everyone is different, the problems related to heavy drinking, the emotions around it are pretty much identical fir everyone.
We always say in this forum, take the advice that's relevant and ignore what's not. A lot of what I have said might be irrelevant to your situation but I can guarantee some of it will ring true for you, and your wife.
I do hope you can sort it out, OP. It sounds like it's not completely dead.
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It’s very hard know what’s good advice without knowing how serious the OPs drinking was tbf. He doesn’t give the impression that it was very excessive, but I guess people sometimes minimise that.
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Yeah that’s the problem with this one , wife could have a myriad of reasons for wanting to end the marriage and drinking is an easy enough go to. As another poster said it could be gaslighting or the op may have downplayed the drinking, not necessarily on purpose.
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Just on this point. These are all really good suggestions. But, these are tasks that should be shared in the house anyway. These are practical things. What has been missing for your wife, to make her feel that her only option is to walk away is more than likely an emotional connection with you. You've stopped being a united couple. You've stopped being a close confidant and support to each other. You were absent (by your own admission) and she could no longer depend on you.
All the above suggestions put you and your wife in the "housemate" category. If you want a marriage there has to be more. There has to be a desire to want to make each others lives better. Something more than just practical chores. I think it has long been accepted that men are practical creatures, trying to "do" things to fix problems. Women are more emotional and need that emotional support and security. The bins will get put out. The kitchen will get cleaned. Someone will do it. But who will offer love, affection, compassion, intimacy, closeness? THOSE are the important things to sustain a marriage. You've both lost that. And in order to move forward you both need to find it again. Or at least explore if it is something that can be found again.
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I dont think couples counselling is a silver bullet. Roughly how old are your kids OP? if it doesnt work out , you are still relatively young and I assume your partner is too...
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Thanks for this message. I agree. My drinking was a problem and I fully accept that she has been harmed by my absence and selfishness over that time. I never was abusive but I did harm her in the ways you described and am truly sorry.
Are you leaving parts of the story out because you don't describe any mention of her thinking the drinking was an issue or arguments or discussions about it, and she apparently didn't mention it until the third time she told you she wanted to end the marriage.
That is very unusual, unheard of it in my experience (my ex was a problem drinker and I know many others who had partners with alcohol issues). I've never known anyone who says nothing when there are children involved and their partners drinking habits are becoming too much and causing issues and who just waits for their partner to come to the conclusion themselves. It tends to have been mentioned many times even if there was no ultimatum or no suggestion of ending the relationship etc.
I suppose if her mental health wasn't great that could have made her a bit numb and passive, but it's still not really adding up if she only mentioned it the 3rd time she told you she wanted to end the relationship. If it all happened like you said then it makes me think that it wasn't necessarily the drink that caused it but that she's trying to search for a reason why she she started to feel like she wanted out. And just as a side note I don't believe that that means she's lying or anything like that, just that her feelings changed and all she can think of is that maybe it was the drinking, but it might not have been.
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Her behaviour isn't particularly unusual when it comes to people who want to end relationships. It's definitely not unusual to say you're not happy and want out but then be talked into trying again or to backtrack when they see how upset and hurt their partner is or to feel like they just can't leave. There can be a huge sense of responsibility and obligation and to the partner and while sometimes they pluck up the courage to say the words they want to end it or else it just comes out when they can't take anymore, a lot of people don't have the strong boundaries or will to stick to their guns when they're then dealing with a partner who is pleading with them or begging them to try or breaking down in front of them.
Initiating sex wouldn't be that unusual either after couples go through the break up talk and all of those heightened emotions come up.
I wouldn't call her behaviour any more 'crazy' than someone who keeps asking their partner to keep trying when they say they want out. The behaviour isn't crazy, it's pretty common behaviour in break ups, both sides of it. A lot of relationship break ups, particularly ones with children and also when the couple have been together for most of their adult lives are long and drawn out and have lots of swaying back and forwards about whether it's the right thing to do because that's all they've known, the limbo is common, and it isn't necessarily something that one person is doing to the other on purpose.
OP you said she's reluctant to go to counselling but maybe you would benefit from it yourself, it might help you to prepare for the marriage ending or to give you some coping skills or even just someone to talk to when all of this is going on. If it's going to end then could drag out for a lot longer or it could all come to a head very quickly when you're not prepared so it could be helpful to focus on yourself and your own wellbeing too and not just focus on trying to fix the marriage.
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I suggested my suggestions - see 40- as complimentary to other ‘actions and a way of doing things together . And I fully agree with your thoughts . The OP now has a good number of ideas to ‘cherry pick ‘ from. Hopefully he will pick the range that he thinks his wife would respond to in a positive way and not pick the ones , in a strategy, That the OP likes himself,. And, by the way, showing love / being in love, etc, etc changes as we get ‘more senior’.
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I'm sitting in Dublin Airport now waiting for a flight. My wife and I have had a very intense few weeks, many late nights talking.
It really does all boil down to my drinking over the years. There were too many times when I drank too much and fell asleep, or when our evenings were ruined because I had too many drinks and was the annoying drunk guy, not the man she fell in love with. And it took place for too long. She had given me lots of signals that she wasn't happy and I never acted on them until the damage was already done. I was a fool, and having completely stopped drinking now for the first time in years, I can see more clearly the hold it had over me and how it affected her and I am so unbelievably sorry for the hurt I caused her.
Over the past few months, while all this was happening there have been no fights, loads and loads of talking but we were going around in circles a little. She agreed to see a counsellor and I am trying to arrange one for couples therapy.
In moment to moment, we can still laugh and smile, and she was still falling asleep in my arms at night, but whenever she let's her mind return to the future or the past she still can't move on and forgive me.
Her language has changed a little from 'I already made up my mind' to 'I had made up my mind' and she has told me that she is 'reconsidering' which is good.
I have done everything I can think of to fix the harm I have done, to the point that It was beginning to do more harm than good, so with her agreement I have arranged to stay with my younger brother for a week. Give her as much space as she needs to clear her head.
I think I have shown her that I have learned and can make the changes she needs, There is only really one question left. What does she actually want. Does she hope we can fix this and live our best lives together, or does she hope we can separate and live well apart on good terms.
She knows how I feel, I can only hope she comes down on the same side as me because if she gives me the chance, I truly feel we can have a wonderful life together again
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It's great that you've done this introspection and are willing to own your parts of what has led your marriage to this point. However, I would be very careful not to position yourself as the sole person at fault here. If you do manage to work things out you can't be the one to blame for what happened for the rest of your marriage. You wife had her part to play in this too, and I would say that giving you "signals" that she wasn't happy instead of sitting you down and communicating clearly that you guys were potentially in trouble was a large cop-out from her.
I wish you the very best of luck, but don't assume you're the only one who could have handled things better/differently. It takes two people to make a relationship work.
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Absolutely. @Despondent Great that she has now agreed to counseling which is surely a positive sign. As difficult as it is to do, maybe focusing on the process is best at this stage than seeking confirmation from her for the outcome you want (knowing what she wants).
Out of interest, is your wife also staying off the drink?
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Your worst "drunken" story seems to be falling asleep on the sofa which is about as standard a thing for a middle aged parent of 3 to do on lazy weekend evening.
Your wife (who you started out saying is never disrespectful) worst drunken story is taking all your money and leaving you walk home for 2 hours in sub zero temps in a foreign city.
It's good you're cutting down, less or no alcohol is always a healthy lifestyle choice. But you seem to be self chastising yourself to an extreme and exonorating her of everything and pedastalising her. You're both imperfect.
Your conflict communication style was "ah ill leave it", hers was bottling everything up until she's drunk and then going from 0 to we're over in seconds. Can you see where you're avoiding having a backbone and not dealing with conflict head on led to?
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I am fully owning up to my flaws, not least because she is the one who wants to walk away and playing the blame game would only drive her away even faster. I can only control my own actions and I can only take responsiblity for my own past behaviour. I genuinely do not hold any bad feelings towards her and right now I'm really just hoping for a chance to give it a proper go at reconnecting.
Its been a really long few days for me. I've been keeping in touch with my kids using WhatsApp and a kid friendly app for my youngest daughter. I have tried to avoid messaging my wife, to give her that space, but I did send her messages to say I arrived safely, and when I wake up, and when I went to sleep.
She never replied to my last message :(
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If drink is mentioned, then it's problematic. If it introduces a negative change in one's life or those around them. Then it's best of put to bed. It shouldn't be a crutch or a go to. And certainly shouldn't be consumed on the daily.
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Op didn’t give enough details in my opinion.
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He's given a heap load of details. Anyone drinking 7 days a week has a problem. The end. If you're excusing that as normal it's not. Alcohol has become a crutch at that point.
It's meant to be something you enjoy with others a social lubricant. It shouldn't be consumed 7 days a week on the couch and sending you to sleep. I'm in no doubt OP has probably been woken up on the couch at 3am in the morning having conked out.
When you have to talk about alcohol in a relationship then it's no longer a social lubricant it's come into problem territory.
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I haven’t read the whole thread but I could t see where he said he was drinking 7 days a week. From what I read the wife has an unhealthier relationship with alcohol than Op.
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